Just read something interesting. Never knew Abrahan Gutierrez was a casually of the Braves cheating on the International Signing rules in the same signing period as Bae. Signed by the Phillies before being traded to us. You all probably knew all about it but just learned of it. This link was on a weekend mailbag chat board on MLBTR:
I bet you Braylon Bishop is good enough an athlete to be taught any skill in professional sports, except of course the innate ability to hit a baseball. The beauty of this godforsaken game.
Alas, if anyone thought he’d hit a lick he’d never have plummeted in the draft. His minor league career simply bears that out. What a game.
Hard to see a kid with this much athleticism be unable to put a decent workable swing together. Definitely needs a lot of 1 on 1 work off the T, and in soft toss drills. Facing pitchers can wait until someone who cares commits the time to working with him every day.
Full disclaimer that I'm just some jag on the internet, but my general take from a couple decades following minor leaguers is that mechanical work is to maximize a kid's ability to hit, a la Kebryan Hayes. He needed a swing change to lift the ball and do more with the hit tool he has, but not for that base ability to *hit*. Almost an undefinable quality in the realm of pornography, you just know it when you see it.
In all the football-kid-turned-prospect acts I've followed (shorthand for general athlete that signs to play ball), I struggle to think of one that succeeded without first having that inherent ability to hit. Just not sure Braylon has it. Tough, tough game.
Agree. He has IT physically and showed as much at the multiple showcases he performed at leading up to his being drafted. A matter of getting back to the basics, getting his head right, and working hard to build the confidence needed to hit a baseball consistently.
I'm not sure but the development of Bishop should have focused on his swing. He had an extreme uppercut and bad hand placement prior to being drafted. I really haven't seen him swing much in the last couple years but by the picture above it appears he still has bad hand placement.
He needs to keep the barrel in the zone as long as possible on a more level plan. He seems to have a good eye, maybe a good hitting coach could unlock something. His other tools are excellent.
His hands start high then he drops them to his chest to load. It makes for a very short uppercut swing. The barrel is in and out of the zone fast. Basically he's swinging all arms most of the time. Again I haven't seen him swing lately, I'm going off video from before he was drafted.
The picture above looks like where his hand placement is in his load as a prep player.
What’s struck me in three years of watching Bishop — which doesn’t negate anything you’re saying — is hesitance in making swing decisions. Lots of checked swings, lots of bending over and staring at pitches the whole way in, like he’s trying to “will” them out of the strike zone, then getting annoyed at the strike call. It’s common in this system. Head and Siani are other examples. They all seem to overthink swing decisions. Seems like they’ve all been Hainesed.
That makes it sound systematic, and good to know. Have you noticed where his hands are on his load. Again I haven't really seen him swing lately but he at least use to start with his hands high then load lower around his chest. It makes for a short upper cut swing that leaves the barrel in the zone only briefly.
If he would start with his hands lower then load higher he should be able to at least keep the barrel in the zone longer. Can't believe I'm suggesting a longer bat path but his swing was ugly and it might make him make a decision to swing sooner. Just sucks for someone with his tools to maybe not reach his potential do to approach.
Thanks again. It clearly isn't working for him and probably never will. As good of an athlete as he is, he'll need to totally redo his swing just to have a boxers chance.
Yes... but noticing his hand positioning and where he loads his swing is not as important has having the right "philosophy." Just what is your "philosophy" of hitting anyway? Do you know that all the data suggests that it is sub-optimal to protect the plate with 2 strikes? Do you believe the "science?" You might be a denier... lol;.
It's extremely important if it isn't working for you. If it ain't broke don't fix it, doesn't apply when it doesn't work.
I'm a bit old school and think you can have a situational approach and I feel the entire swing is part of the approach. I don't like mechanical changes just sacrificing some bat speed to a slower more controlled 2 strike swing (by no means a slow swing just more controlled).
Some players with extreme hit tools don't need to change anything lol.
I like our discussions and I'm asking you to go watch some of his pre draft video and watch his hands and bat path. I might be a denier but think the mechanics of the swing is very important to the philosophy of hitting lol.
I was being sarcastic. I think good coaching, and good player development, starts with the types of mechanical adjustments that you are always observing in hitters. I think that most front-offices in modern baseball world have gone overboard in the data analysis of outcomes and tend to ignore the process that produces the outcome.
For example, so-and-so's four-seam fastball, has a -X run value. This data speaks only to the outcome, not the process. It does his explain why so-and-so's fastball have a negative run value? It does nothing to inform coaches in how to help the player develop a better fastball. The modern solution, which basically shuns mechanics, is to simply drop the four-seamer and go to a two-seamer. If this does not work, then the player is a bust... move on to the next draft pick. This is not "player development" in any meaningful sense. It is the opposite of "player development."
The best teams, like Houston, for example, have started to devise systems to gather data on the process and incorporate this data into coaching better mechanics. The Pirates incorporated all this technology into their player development system when Cherington took over. It does not seem to me that they know what to do with this data, however. The data can show where there is a problem, but fixing that problem is old-school technique coaching: such as lowering the hands in a stance and having a more central load.
In place of finding coaches that can use the data to fix technical problems. Cherington seems more interested in finding coaches who share his philosophy: a worship of the "data" for its own sake. He is a sort of Jacobin, I think. I think he shares this idea, prominent in his generation of baseball managers, that he is the future of baseball and that he is going to get rid of the old-guard. Off with their heads, even if they may know something he does not.
The best teams, like Houston, have abandoned this sort of Jacobin disdain for the old baseball people and have found away to incorporate both data and old-school coaching and scouting.
I find myself conflicted with BCs draft strategy. On one hand, it’s hard to argue against the upside of guys like Chandler, Solometo, White Jr., etc., but on the other hand I find myself disappointed by the overall talent pool in the minor league levels right now.
I think it puts a lot of pressure on the players who debuted last season. There isn’t a lot of help readily available should these guys struggle.
Amen. The strategy would look a whole lot different if the "safe" college picks he built his drafts around did not universally flunk their initial tests.
A club that has Nick Gonzales as an above average second basemen, Carmen Mlodzinski the #4 starter, and Henry Davis as anything approaching the quality of the first pick selected in a draft has a completely different outlook than the one we'll see entering 2024.
That being said, I think the general disappointment you're feeling in the system is largely built around their complete failure to generate anything later in the drafts and in Latin America. As the big names matriculate, the health of the system will always depend on the deep tracks. They've been demonstrably worse at mining those diamonds than even the Huntington front office.
The LA kids especially just flounder in High A, if they even make it that far. The blatant disregard for the fact pitchers throw pitches other than just fastballs. Watching the likes of Mojica or Escotto swing at every breaker like it's the first time they've ever been thrown one.
Just read something interesting. Never knew Abrahan Gutierrez was a casually of the Braves cheating on the International Signing rules in the same signing period as Bae. Signed by the Phillies before being traded to us. You all probably knew all about it but just learned of it. This link was on a weekend mailbag chat board on MLBTR:
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/braves-paid-high-price-for-little-reward-in-international-signing-scandal/
I'd like for Braylon to try and mimic Termarr's swing. The swing he has now sure isn't working for him.
I love how Termarr has chose EV over barring average. He still has a good eye but has prioritized destroying the ball vice spraying singles.
As Termarr advances, I feel pretty confident that his contact rate will increase as well. He's going to grow into his swing.
trading Termarr for pitching would be a mistake in my opinion
It would be, one of the few prospects we have that has an impact bat.
I bet you Braylon Bishop is good enough an athlete to be taught any skill in professional sports, except of course the innate ability to hit a baseball. The beauty of this godforsaken game.
Alas, if anyone thought he’d hit a lick he’d never have plummeted in the draft. His minor league career simply bears that out. What a game.
Hard to see a kid with this much athleticism be unable to put a decent workable swing together. Definitely needs a lot of 1 on 1 work off the T, and in soft toss drills. Facing pitchers can wait until someone who cares commits the time to working with him every day.
Full disclaimer that I'm just some jag on the internet, but my general take from a couple decades following minor leaguers is that mechanical work is to maximize a kid's ability to hit, a la Kebryan Hayes. He needed a swing change to lift the ball and do more with the hit tool he has, but not for that base ability to *hit*. Almost an undefinable quality in the realm of pornography, you just know it when you see it.
In all the football-kid-turned-prospect acts I've followed (shorthand for general athlete that signs to play ball), I struggle to think of one that succeeded without first having that inherent ability to hit. Just not sure Braylon has it. Tough, tough game.
Agree. He has IT physically and showed as much at the multiple showcases he performed at leading up to his being drafted. A matter of getting back to the basics, getting his head right, and working hard to build the confidence needed to hit a baseball consistently.
Great write up, Murph.
Just another in exact science pick...chalk it up and move on...
I'm not sure but the development of Bishop should have focused on his swing. He had an extreme uppercut and bad hand placement prior to being drafted. I really haven't seen him swing much in the last couple years but by the picture above it appears he still has bad hand placement.
He needs to keep the barrel in the zone as long as possible on a more level plan. He seems to have a good eye, maybe a good hitting coach could unlock something. His other tools are excellent.
What do you mean about his hand placement? How open his right-hand wrist is?
His hands start high then he drops them to his chest to load. It makes for a very short uppercut swing. The barrel is in and out of the zone fast. Basically he's swinging all arms most of the time. Again I haven't seen him swing lately, I'm going off video from before he was drafted.
The picture above looks like where his hand placement is in his load as a prep player.
What’s struck me in three years of watching Bishop — which doesn’t negate anything you’re saying — is hesitance in making swing decisions. Lots of checked swings, lots of bending over and staring at pitches the whole way in, like he’s trying to “will” them out of the strike zone, then getting annoyed at the strike call. It’s common in this system. Head and Siani are other examples. They all seem to overthink swing decisions. Seems like they’ve all been Hainesed.
That makes it sound systematic, and good to know. Have you noticed where his hands are on his load. Again I haven't really seen him swing lately but he at least use to start with his hands high then load lower around his chest. It makes for a short upper cut swing that leaves the barrel in the zone only briefly.
If he would start with his hands lower then load higher he should be able to at least keep the barrel in the zone longer. Can't believe I'm suggesting a longer bat path but his swing was ugly and it might make him make a decision to swing sooner. Just sucks for someone with his tools to maybe not reach his potential do to approach.
I think your description is pretty accurate. On a general level, a lot of their lower level hitters seem to have too much movement in getting ready.
Thanks
I checked my photos (sadly there's no way to post photos in comments) and, yes, he does start off with his hands up high, then drops them down.
Thanks again. It clearly isn't working for him and probably never will. As good of an athlete as he is, he'll need to totally redo his swing just to have a boxers chance.
Yes... but noticing his hand positioning and where he loads his swing is not as important has having the right "philosophy." Just what is your "philosophy" of hitting anyway? Do you know that all the data suggests that it is sub-optimal to protect the plate with 2 strikes? Do you believe the "science?" You might be a denier... lol;.
It's extremely important if it isn't working for you. If it ain't broke don't fix it, doesn't apply when it doesn't work.
I'm a bit old school and think you can have a situational approach and I feel the entire swing is part of the approach. I don't like mechanical changes just sacrificing some bat speed to a slower more controlled 2 strike swing (by no means a slow swing just more controlled).
Some players with extreme hit tools don't need to change anything lol.
I like our discussions and I'm asking you to go watch some of his pre draft video and watch his hands and bat path. I might be a denier but think the mechanics of the swing is very important to the philosophy of hitting lol.
I was being sarcastic. I think good coaching, and good player development, starts with the types of mechanical adjustments that you are always observing in hitters. I think that most front-offices in modern baseball world have gone overboard in the data analysis of outcomes and tend to ignore the process that produces the outcome.
For example, so-and-so's four-seam fastball, has a -X run value. This data speaks only to the outcome, not the process. It does his explain why so-and-so's fastball have a negative run value? It does nothing to inform coaches in how to help the player develop a better fastball. The modern solution, which basically shuns mechanics, is to simply drop the four-seamer and go to a two-seamer. If this does not work, then the player is a bust... move on to the next draft pick. This is not "player development" in any meaningful sense. It is the opposite of "player development."
The best teams, like Houston, for example, have started to devise systems to gather data on the process and incorporate this data into coaching better mechanics. The Pirates incorporated all this technology into their player development system when Cherington took over. It does not seem to me that they know what to do with this data, however. The data can show where there is a problem, but fixing that problem is old-school technique coaching: such as lowering the hands in a stance and having a more central load.
In place of finding coaches that can use the data to fix technical problems. Cherington seems more interested in finding coaches who share his philosophy: a worship of the "data" for its own sake. He is a sort of Jacobin, I think. I think he shares this idea, prominent in his generation of baseball managers, that he is the future of baseball and that he is going to get rid of the old-guard. Off with their heads, even if they may know something he does not.
The best teams, like Houston, have abandoned this sort of Jacobin disdain for the old baseball people and have found away to incorporate both data and old-school coaching and scouting.
I find myself conflicted with BCs draft strategy. On one hand, it’s hard to argue against the upside of guys like Chandler, Solometo, White Jr., etc., but on the other hand I find myself disappointed by the overall talent pool in the minor league levels right now.
I think it puts a lot of pressure on the players who debuted last season. There isn’t a lot of help readily available should these guys struggle.
Amen. The strategy would look a whole lot different if the "safe" college picks he built his drafts around did not universally flunk their initial tests.
A club that has Nick Gonzales as an above average second basemen, Carmen Mlodzinski the #4 starter, and Henry Davis as anything approaching the quality of the first pick selected in a draft has a completely different outlook than the one we'll see entering 2024.
That being said, I think the general disappointment you're feeling in the system is largely built around their complete failure to generate anything later in the drafts and in Latin America. As the big names matriculate, the health of the system will always depend on the deep tracks. They've been demonstrably worse at mining those diamonds than even the Huntington front office.
The LA kids especially just flounder in High A, if they even make it that far. The blatant disregard for the fact pitchers throw pitches other than just fastballs. Watching the likes of Mojica or Escotto swing at every breaker like it's the first time they've ever been thrown one.