What's the most amount of prospects one team can trade for a single player? I wouldn't think there is a limit. Just send prospect #'s 20-30 for one dude. Maybe two. Of some quality. Cease for the lot of them? Then get Melkel to assess some guys that live by him to fill the roster spots.
Thankfully I can't read Shelton's mind but after reading his statement again, “Grandal’s gonna catch. Then in that second spot, we’re gonna have a competition.” it could also be said that he's saying Grandal's the starter and Davis and Delay are fighting for the second spot. After the Hedges debacle I'd say it's likely what he's saying.
Still got my vhs of live at Pompeii but I don't trust my vcr to play it. Maybe has the greatest response to a question ever. "We're not a drug oriented band, ... you can trust us."
I’m kinda of hoping the pitcher the pirates want from the marlins is Trevor rogers. I think there’s more there with him if he’s healthy. Might be able to give up less for him since he is coming off injury too. The guy was very good his rookie season and has dealt with injuries since. Cabrera scares me a little, could be another ortiz. But I guess with either one it is a risk and not a sure thing.
The Pirates can get 3 years of service from Rogers or 5 years of service from Cabrera. I'm with you that I would take Rogers, if we could not include both Shim and Ashcraft in the deal.
The Gonzalez trade, re-upping Cutch, and the Fleming signing were Cherington's best 3 moves of the off-season. Fleming could be sneaky good. I like this one.
Well... I'm biased in that I took Fleming in the expansion draft in my game, and he has been solid for 5 years as a long-relief/swing-man and often my 5th starter. He doesn't kill himself with walks and tends to keep the ball in the park. This traits all play well at PNC.
Well... he is there as he is per fangraphs.... a 40+ grade overall with 70 grade command with a decent sinker/curve that generates a gb% rate in the 98th percentile. Good command and keeps the ball in the park.., works well in a swing man role or an emergency starter.
Fleming is a waiver wire pick-up very late in the off-season on Feb 14. He had elbow soreness, inflammation and cartilage build-up in '23. Then he went to AAA and had a 1.77 whip. Let's call this what it is....a dumpster dive.
Yes... but a very good one. The inflammation and soaring WHIP are related. He is healthy now, and the Pirates want him to bring back his cutter. That could be a major move, because his fundamental problem has been a lack of a quality offering to pair with his sinker against righties, and the cutter is for righties exclusively. It's the Mitch Keller school... if the changeup sucks... use a cutter instead. It might be a major difference-maker for Fleming.
So apparently if you can believe Shelton, and who'd ever question such an upstanding guy, Grandal will be the starting catcher? Not sure that's what he said but that quote sure sounded like it. This after all the hoopla from Cherington about Davis being a catcher and the failed attempts to sign Sanchez, if that's even true.
A 35 year old catcher with a wRC+ last year of 80, a negative WAR and DRS of -11. This is the best catcher they could find or more to the point were willing to pay for? Delay's better than that. Will Davis wind up in RF again or back in Indy where Cherington didn't allow him to catch enough to know if he can play the position or not? Good grief. Shouldn't the Pirates be trying to get better instead of doing this kind of stuff?
WTF? Could they handle Davis more destructively. Here it is - - no, it's not yours. We found another guy, a retread who was even worse than Davis last year, We expect Davis to improve, Grandal is at the end of a once productive career. Why did we sign Grandal? IMHO Delay, at this stage of their careers is a better option. Leave Davis alone. Give him the chance to sink or swim, STOP FUCKING WITH HIM!
Par for the course with this organization. They don’t trust their development, talent evaluators, etc. The result is wasting money on a 35 y/o who hasn’t been good in years, when you have two other catchers on the 40 man roster who could put up similar numbers to Grandal. Contrast that with the Rays who trade for a guy with 280 PA’s and hand him the starting shortstop job. Until they stop obsessing and wasting money on 4A/waiver wire retread types things are hopeless.
I didn't trust this administration before, so when they said Davis would be given every chance to be the catcher in '24, I was skeptical. Now, I don't know what they could do to earn my trust (a trade for a quality starter would help, though). But, ironically, that also makes me skeptical of Shelton's most recent statement. I don't know if it's a lack of a plan or poor communication skills, but they're a frustrating administration to support.
To make it even worse, if their plan was for Davis to battle it out for the backup role, then they should have outspent the Brewers to sign Sanchez. It's one thing to settle for Grandal as a veteran backup/mentor to Davis and another to settle when the plan is for the veteran to be the starter.
(And I've always liked Grandal as a player, but after his last two years I don't want him given the starting spot.)
I don’t like the idea of moving him back this year because…it’s one year! They clearly think more of Endy behind the plate and it’s not like Endy’s surgery removed his arm completely. It didn’t, right? Someone confirm that.
It would have made far more sense to grit their teeth and have him sink or swim in RF. But they know better.
If I had to guess, they'll have to include Davis as the headliner at min to get Cabrera. I'd do it in a heartbeat. Maybe this is why they're loading up on catchers.
I think there’s a sizable gap in values. Davis, issues aside, seems like he’s got more value than Cabrera who has problems of his own. But Davis doesn’t have nearly as much value as Luzardo or Braxton.
I like how you're operating as people are overvaluing Pirates prospects, but turn around and think a kid that has parts of three seasons in the majors without establishing himself requires a haul
The Marlins are desperate to parlay their wealth of pitching talent into offense. I'm sorry but Bae, Peguero or Gonzales isn't the answer to their offense.
Cabrera is so young and dynamic, with years and years of control. GM's love arms like his. He's still developing. He was once Bubba Chandler.
He's more Ortiz than Bubba. The fastball shape and command are kind of poo, but throw really hard. Cabrera has the advantage of a filthy change.
The pitching wealth is a yes and no. A lot of interesting arms, but they've been littered with injuries and struggles. Sandy is out for year, but Meyer coming back. Sixto still hasn't worked his way back. Eder came back last year then traded at deadline (I kind of wanted him). But also they do have a glut, cause they still already have Luzardo, Garrett, and Perez. With Rogers returning late last year. Cabrera is the one without options.
I guess I'm talking more of where he was as a prospect. Either way, he's way better than Ortiz. He can actually generate K's and maintains a respectable FIP and ERA.
You mean the four-seamer? His two-seamer is OK, and he seems to be using it more. He doesn't really use his four-seamer as his pitch to set up the breaking stuff. He sort of pitches backwards, using his off-speed and breaking stuff to set up his fastball. I think he found something that works for him, but I doubt his ability to cover innings as a starter without injury.
Then, new GM, but Bae is kind of similar to the players they targeted last year, similar to how they just added Nick Gordon (who would make it a weird acquisition).
As a prospect Davis was a higher grade, and he has an extra year of control. That means a higher surplus value. Cabrera is a bit of more of a known quantity, with limited 4-5 upside, and substantial relief risk.
Based on BTV, I'd overpay slightly due to the upside, but Davis would be way too much of an overpay. Obviously, they could make things work with additional pieces, but a deal I'd look at is something like Holderman, Jebb, and someone like Kellington or Jimenez for Cabrera, based on BTV. We have enough back-of-the-pen depth to part with Holderman and Jebb might entice them as a replacement for Arraez when he leaves. A guy like Jimenez or Kellington makes the values even and gives them an arm to work with, and that should be appealing given their track record of developing pitching.
I don't like it unless they are giving up only guys on the 40-man like Bae and Gonzalez. That would be about as far as I go to acquire Cabrera. His max-effort delivery and jerky follow-through scream bullpen and innings limits or an injury-plagued decent into oblivion if forced into starting 30 games per season. That has been his trajectory so far, and I am not sure why the Pirates think that they can fix that when they have 15 guys in the minors with the same profile.
This is exactly my thought but the last time I made this argument it was in favor of trading Joey Musgrove and then he immediately went on to pump out back to back 180 IP 3 WAR seasons in a row.
I think henry’s bat is as ready as anyone’s. Rewatch him taking Otani deep twice to appreciate his power.
He got hurt at the end of the year and scuffled a little but I think he should get 550 ABs this year regardless of his position and I’m not super worried about him offensively
If they both get 550 ABs as the post mentioned, who would have the higher WAR? Higher OPS? I think there would be a lot of money placed on Hank. Did the Reds bring back Votto to occupy the DH?
Look dude, if you want to give prospects scholarships and not make them earn their spot just come out and say it. That's fine. But don't make yourself look dumb by claiming he's the better hitter right now. It's not even close, there's absolutely no rational argument.
Sorry for the delay responding back……work sucks when you wanna talk baseball….. Thanks. Was assuming but was holding out hope for one of the bigger “fish” but doubt the Marlins would never trade unless Skenes was involved. Hear about the accidental news drop on the Fan on my way in this morning. The just talked about the error but did not mention any details.
Both Peggy and Nick were top 100 gisu with years of control. Bae for all of his mistakes have also been a player with good defensive flexibility and was a highly regarded prospect. Cabrera has his problems as well poor control great stuff it fills a need that both teams have.
True enough, Arky Wags, but either Shim or Ashcraft and Bae and I'm fine with it. But not both. I feel like Ashcraft is close and Shim is a low level blue chip. One or the other, sure, but not both.
---------------------
"Stranger! You just yupped yerself into a hole in yer head!"
You say that like it’s a good thing. My prospecty heart is cold and lifeless, because of all the low minors arms that had potential and never did a damn thing. Anyone see Luis Escobar lately?
I feel like you just explained the glut of Pirates prospect arms. I like Cabrera, but as others have said, he's injury prone, out of options, and in 99.2 IP last season he had a 15.2% walk rate. High ceiling sure, but he's also wrought with questions still.
So, much like your Glasnow comment, the hope would be the Pirates are buying low at the perfect time and get their version of Glasnow. Hopefully without the continued injury issues.
Plus Cabrera is a health concern, especially throwing so hard and so many pitchers. He has yet to reach 100 pitches in an of his first 3 seasons. Honestly, he may be more suted for the bullpen.
I'd rather it be one of Bae, Gonzales or Peguero. One of Ortiz, Priester or Ro. And the third piece any one of our draft picks other than Skenes or Mueth.
We might get something back if they wanted Peguero, Priester and Jebb. Maybe their comp pick.
Fans have not seemed to catch up yet with how much Cherington clearly uses him as a mouthpiece. The days of no Pirate leaks are clearly over, this front office is a sieve.
One of the primary objects of the game in the offseason is to keep the Pirates in the news here and there in order to provoke season ticket and ticket package sales (for the fireworks nights). At least, Cherington seems to understand this aspect of managing... PR.
I get the Borealus point, but disagree strongly on part of it. Staying in the news - not a bad idea. Provoke season ticket and ticket package sales??? I did NO homework, but I really don't believe when they made the trades for Perez or Gonzalez, Tellez or Grandal signings, rumors regarding Cabrera, Thor, or other pitchers led to many (if any) increased ticket sales. The only transaction in the last 2 years that I believe made some level of difference was the Cutch signing. Ticket sales will increase IMHO when they WIN and when Skenes makes his initial starts. Staying in the news in the off-season equating to ticket sales - not buying it.
also fair...but when you're starting from such a low point I wouldn't doubt that just showing a bit of effort could get the attention of at least a few folks.
Livvy Dunne's boyfriend has one hell of a fastball/slider combo.
Lol i was laughing at that line in FG
I was just staring at the stache
Doug Drabek and his voluminous pushbroom was the last Pittsburgh Pirate to win Cy Young.
Coincidence, I think not.
That's why his son Kyle never made it in the bigs. You would have thought Doug would have emphasized the stache. Kids never listen.
It's like the Cheshire Cat, it distracts and puts you in a false sense of security before he unleashes the Clubber Lang "Pain! A whole lot of Pain!
She has one too?
What's the most amount of prospects one team can trade for a single player? I wouldn't think there is a limit. Just send prospect #'s 20-30 for one dude. Maybe two. Of some quality. Cease for the lot of them? Then get Melkel to assess some guys that live by him to fill the roster spots.
like when Ditka traded every draft pick for Rickie Williams?
Yeah. Remember this SI cover?
https://www.espn.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2112903
Melkel for POBO and area scout
Thankfully I can't read Shelton's mind but after reading his statement again, “Grandal’s gonna catch. Then in that second spot, we’re gonna have a competition.” it could also be said that he's saying Grandal's the starter and Davis and Delay are fighting for the second spot. After the Hedges debacle I'd say it's likely what he's saying.
did you go and touch some grass?
I should have smoked some, lol.
Wow, another pointless comment by Shelton. Too bad we don't have a competition for a competent manager in spring training!
Everybody please log off and touch grass.
...or smoke some
Or touch the grass you are about to smoke. Two birds, one stone. Or one stoned? I enjoyed writing that. Thanks for allowing me the chance.
I know you are a Phish fan but when I think of songs and grass this comes to mind. Figured you may be a fan of it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jMlFXouPk8
just listened to Echoes from Pompei for the 1,346th time this morning.
Still got my vhs of live at Pompeii but I don't trust my vcr to play it. Maybe has the greatest response to a question ever. "We're not a drug oriented band, ... you can trust us."
HA!
Fresh out of grass here in Zona'. Plenty of creosote bushes though.
Are you droughting or flooding right now?
Drought now, flood later.
Everyone should enjoy a laugh and read this recent "article" Maybe the Marlins would enjoy Alika and someone from our loaded outfield =)
https://marlinmaniac.com/posts/marlins-and-pirates-in-trade-talks-a-mock-trade-proposal-01hpnegzb6hz
Oh, man. I wish I had the Marlins fan's perspective. Our "loaded" outfield group and glut of battling second base prospects lol
Maybe we can do a quantity trade, (if the writer was GM) Williams, Head, Escotto, Drake and maybe they'll take Scott back lol
There we go lol
Maybe it’s because anyone else’s prospect pool looks better when comparing weaknesses?
They've been atrocious at developing hitters. Atrocious.
College hitters go there to regress back to high school.
I didn't like Jacob Berry much at all, and then he went to the worst possible organization lol
Their farm system is a mess except for some pitchers.
This was funny, good drop!
My grass is dead!!! Dead I tell you!!!!
My grass is being dug up for grubs by all these skunks.... bastards...
No! But mainly because I can pretend to work while on this site but not while traveling a mile to the nearest grass lol
I’m kinda of hoping the pitcher the pirates want from the marlins is Trevor rogers. I think there’s more there with him if he’s healthy. Might be able to give up less for him since he is coming off injury too. The guy was very good his rookie season and has dealt with injuries since. Cabrera scares me a little, could be another ortiz. But I guess with either one it is a risk and not a sure thing.
The Pirates can get 3 years of service from Rogers or 5 years of service from Cabrera. I'm with you that I would take Rogers, if we could not include both Shim and Ashcraft in the deal.
100% agree.
It's Year 5 Bucco's fans. Wacky, strange, (desperate?) things are happening. Shake things up.....I'm not opposed to it.....until I am.
The Gonzalez trade, re-upping Cutch, and the Fleming signing were Cherington's best 3 moves of the off-season. Fleming could be sneaky good. I like this one.
Soft tossing lefties is Ben's thing. They play well in PNC, and have brought back prospects at the deadline.
Well... I'm biased in that I took Fleming in the expansion draft in my game, and he has been solid for 5 years as a long-relief/swing-man and often my 5th starter. He doesn't kill himself with walks and tends to keep the ball in the park. This traits all play well at PNC.
NOW we know why you like him!
Well... he is there as he is per fangraphs.... a 40+ grade overall with 70 grade command with a decent sinker/curve that generates a gb% rate in the 98th percentile. Good command and keeps the ball in the park.., works well in a swing man role or an emergency starter.
I am not a fan of the Fleming deal, but you could be right. The Pirates have proved me wrong plenty of times with pitchers.
If nothing else, maybe he's a good pitcher for Jack to practice against (based on two bad looking K's for Jack in the highlights video).
Good call. They now have a LH to throw BP to Jack every single day of spring training. And to Cruz too.
Fleming is a waiver wire pick-up very late in the off-season on Feb 14. He had elbow soreness, inflammation and cartilage build-up in '23. Then he went to AAA and had a 1.77 whip. Let's call this what it is....a dumpster dive.
Yes... but a very good one. The inflammation and soaring WHIP are related. He is healthy now, and the Pirates want him to bring back his cutter. That could be a major move, because his fundamental problem has been a lack of a quality offering to pair with his sinker against righties, and the cutter is for righties exclusively. It's the Mitch Keller school... if the changeup sucks... use a cutter instead. It might be a major difference-maker for Fleming.
I really don't see a scenario where he makes the club. He's on a split contract and really has never been very good.
So apparently if you can believe Shelton, and who'd ever question such an upstanding guy, Grandal will be the starting catcher? Not sure that's what he said but that quote sure sounded like it. This after all the hoopla from Cherington about Davis being a catcher and the failed attempts to sign Sanchez, if that's even true.
A 35 year old catcher with a wRC+ last year of 80, a negative WAR and DRS of -11. This is the best catcher they could find or more to the point were willing to pay for? Delay's better than that. Will Davis wind up in RF again or back in Indy where Cherington didn't allow him to catch enough to know if he can play the position or not? Good grief. Shouldn't the Pirates be trying to get better instead of doing this kind of stuff?
When has actual performance ever figured into Cherington's or Shelton's personnel decisions?
WTF? Could they handle Davis more destructively. Here it is - - no, it's not yours. We found another guy, a retread who was even worse than Davis last year, We expect Davis to improve, Grandal is at the end of a once productive career. Why did we sign Grandal? IMHO Delay, at this stage of their careers is a better option. Leave Davis alone. Give him the chance to sink or swim, STOP FUCKING WITH HIM!
Par for the course with this organization. They don’t trust their development, talent evaluators, etc. The result is wasting money on a 35 y/o who hasn’t been good in years, when you have two other catchers on the 40 man roster who could put up similar numbers to Grandal. Contrast that with the Rays who trade for a guy with 280 PA’s and hand him the starting shortstop job. Until they stop obsessing and wasting money on 4A/waiver wire retread types things are hopeless.
I didn't trust this administration before, so when they said Davis would be given every chance to be the catcher in '24, I was skeptical. Now, I don't know what they could do to earn my trust (a trade for a quality starter would help, though). But, ironically, that also makes me skeptical of Shelton's most recent statement. I don't know if it's a lack of a plan or poor communication skills, but they're a frustrating administration to support.
To make it even worse, if their plan was for Davis to battle it out for the backup role, then they should have outspent the Brewers to sign Sanchez. It's one thing to settle for Grandal as a veteran backup/mentor to Davis and another to settle when the plan is for the veteran to be the starter.
(And I've always liked Grandal as a player, but after his last two years I don't want him given the starting spot.)
I don’t like the idea of moving him back this year because…it’s one year! They clearly think more of Endy behind the plate and it’s not like Endy’s surgery removed his arm completely. It didn’t, right? Someone confirm that.
It would have made far more sense to grit their teeth and have him sink or swim in RF. But they know better.
not his throwing arm if i remember correctly
That’s a relief.
rolaids spells relief
If I had to guess, they'll have to include Davis as the headliner at min to get Cabrera. I'd do it in a heartbeat. Maybe this is why they're loading up on catchers.
They won’t have to do that. Cabrera’s value isn’t that high. If you’re giving up Davis you’re getting back Garrett or Luzardo.
I think there’s a sizable gap in values. Davis, issues aside, seems like he’s got more value than Cabrera who has problems of his own. But Davis doesn’t have nearly as much value as Luzardo or Braxton.
Yes on Luzardo/Garrett. My point was that if you’re giving up Davis you’re getting something better, although it would have to be Davis + others.
Cabrera's value isn't high, but Henry Davis is? He put up -1.0 fWAR and doesn't have a defensive home. Man, you guys.
I like how you're operating as people are overvaluing Pirates prospects, but turn around and think a kid that has parts of three seasons in the majors without establishing himself requires a haul
The Marlins are desperate to parlay their wealth of pitching talent into offense. I'm sorry but Bae, Peguero or Gonzales isn't the answer to their offense.
Cabrera is so young and dynamic, with years and years of control. GM's love arms like his. He's still developing. He was once Bubba Chandler.
He's more Ortiz than Bubba. The fastball shape and command are kind of poo, but throw really hard. Cabrera has the advantage of a filthy change.
The pitching wealth is a yes and no. A lot of interesting arms, but they've been littered with injuries and struggles. Sandy is out for year, but Meyer coming back. Sixto still hasn't worked his way back. Eder came back last year then traded at deadline (I kind of wanted him). But also they do have a glut, cause they still already have Luzardo, Garrett, and Perez. With Rogers returning late last year. Cabrera is the one without options.
I guess I'm talking more of where he was as a prospect. Either way, he's way better than Ortiz. He can actually generate K's and maintains a respectable FIP and ERA.
You mean the four-seamer? His two-seamer is OK, and he seems to be using it more. He doesn't really use his four-seamer as his pitch to set up the breaking stuff. He sort of pitches backwards, using his off-speed and breaking stuff to set up his fastball. I think he found something that works for him, but I doubt his ability to cover innings as a starter without injury.
Then, new GM, but Bae is kind of similar to the players they targeted last year, similar to how they just added Nick Gordon (who would make it a weird acquisition).
As a prospect Davis was a higher grade, and he has an extra year of control. That means a higher surplus value. Cabrera is a bit of more of a known quantity, with limited 4-5 upside, and substantial relief risk.
FG top 100 out. Four in the top 100 in Skenes (10), TJ (37), Jones (62), and Bubba (64).
After thinking about it, I totally agree with your assessment on Cabrera. If the price is right but wouldn't want to overpay. Maybe a little...
I hope they don't screw around with Davis too much. I really like his makeup and work ethic. He will have success, one way or another.
Based on BTV, I'd overpay slightly due to the upside, but Davis would be way too much of an overpay. Obviously, they could make things work with additional pieces, but a deal I'd look at is something like Holderman, Jebb, and someone like Kellington or Jimenez for Cabrera, based on BTV. We have enough back-of-the-pen depth to part with Holderman and Jebb might entice them as a replacement for Arraez when he leaves. A guy like Jimenez or Kellington makes the values even and gives them an arm to work with, and that should be appealing given their track record of developing pitching.
I don't like it unless they are giving up only guys on the 40-man like Bae and Gonzalez. That would be about as far as I go to acquire Cabrera. His max-effort delivery and jerky follow-through scream bullpen and innings limits or an injury-plagued decent into oblivion if forced into starting 30 games per season. That has been his trajectory so far, and I am not sure why the Pirates think that they can fix that when they have 15 guys in the minors with the same profile.
This is exactly my thought but the last time I made this argument it was in favor of trading Joey Musgrove and then he immediately went on to pump out back to back 180 IP 3 WAR seasons in a row.
I think henry’s bat is as ready as anyone’s. Rewatch him taking Otani deep twice to appreciate his power.
He got hurt at the end of the year and scuffled a little but I think he should get 550 ABs this year regardless of his position and I’m not super worried about him offensively
Ok I'm going to say it out loud.....Is Cutch blocking Hank as DH? It's a fair question.
Better players do not "block" inferior ones.
If they both get 550 ABs as the post mentioned, who would have the higher WAR? Higher OPS? I think there would be a lot of money placed on Hank. Did the Reds bring back Votto to occupy the DH?
Look dude, if you want to give prospects scholarships and not make them earn their spot just come out and say it. That's fine. But don't make yourself look dumb by claiming he's the better hitter right now. It's not even close, there's absolutely no rational argument.
https://x.com/JMackeyPG/status/1758110753767231832?s=20
The Mackey tweet wasn't posted official yet. It's a pre-write in case they do trade for him so they can get the new out quickly.
Once again not real.
Who was our get? Cabrera I assume?
Cabral of course. They didn't really go into much more detail.
Sorry for the delay responding back……work sucks when you wanna talk baseball….. Thanks. Was assuming but was holding out hope for one of the bigger “fish” but doubt the Marlins would never trade unless Skenes was involved. Hear about the accidental news drop on the Fan on my way in this morning. The just talked about the error but did not mention any details.
That is actually quite hilarious.
What was the false trade that was announced?
The headliners would be one of Nick Gonzalez, Liover Peguro, or Ji-Wan Bae. Presumably there would be other lower ranked prospects.
That's laughable. Those guys aren't worth anything.
Both Peggy and Nick were top 100 gisu with years of control. Bae for all of his mistakes have also been a player with good defensive flexibility and was a highly regarded prospect. Cabrera has his problems as well poor control great stuff it fills a need that both teams have.
My God.
I have here, in my hand, a list of former top 100 prospects! They must be worth something!
BTV has Bae being worth $10 MM. Even if the model is off by some wild sum of say, 30%, he still has some value to fetch a guy like Cabrera.
Bae, Ashcraft and Shim.
Not liking giving up Shim at all.
No one likes to give up the arms way down low like that. They haven’t failed yet, so people let their imaginations run wild over the possibilities.
True enough, Arky Wags, but either Shim or Ashcraft and Bae and I'm fine with it. But not both. I feel like Ashcraft is close and Shim is a low level blue chip. One or the other, sure, but not both.
---------------------
"Stranger! You just yupped yerself into a hole in yer head!"
-Wabbit
Agree 100% Wabbit
Like times 1000. Bingo. And Shim is an arm to let your imagination run wild.
You say that like it’s a good thing. My prospecty heart is cold and lifeless, because of all the low minors arms that had potential and never did a damn thing. Anyone see Luis Escobar lately?
This trade rumors went from good to "not bad" to "I don't like it."
This looks like a deadline type trade we would make to get us in the play-offs, if needed.
Ashcraft would make me sad, and I'd low-key be upset over Shim. Bae, Ashcraft, and some other random I'd be content with.
Why would a GM trade a high ceiling starter with 5 years of control for Bae and Ashcraft?
I feel like you just explained the glut of Pirates prospect arms. I like Cabrera, but as others have said, he's injury prone, out of options, and in 99.2 IP last season he had a 15.2% walk rate. High ceiling sure, but he's also wrought with questions still.
So, much like your Glasnow comment, the hope would be the Pirates are buying low at the perfect time and get their version of Glasnow. Hopefully without the continued injury issues.
Plus Cabrera is a health concern, especially throwing so hard and so many pitchers. He has yet to reach 100 pitches in an of his first 3 seasons. Honestly, he may be more suted for the bullpen.
He walks a lot of batters and he is out of options.
Probably what Tampa told NH regarding Glasnow.
I'd rather it be one of Bae, Gonzales or Peguero. One of Ortiz, Priester or Ro. And the third piece any one of our draft picks other than Skenes or Mueth.
We might get something back if they wanted Peguero, Priester and Jebb. Maybe their comp pick.
Mackey’s whole offseason has been a pre-write.
Fans have not seemed to catch up yet with how much Cherington clearly uses him as a mouthpiece. The days of no Pirate leaks are clearly over, this front office is a sieve.
One of the primary objects of the game in the offseason is to keep the Pirates in the news here and there in order to provoke season ticket and ticket package sales (for the fireworks nights). At least, Cherington seems to understand this aspect of managing... PR.
extremely well said.
I get the Borealus point, but disagree strongly on part of it. Staying in the news - not a bad idea. Provoke season ticket and ticket package sales??? I did NO homework, but I really don't believe when they made the trades for Perez or Gonzalez, Tellez or Grandal signings, rumors regarding Cabrera, Thor, or other pitchers led to many (if any) increased ticket sales. The only transaction in the last 2 years that I believe made some level of difference was the Cutch signing. Ticket sales will increase IMHO when they WIN and when Skenes makes his initial starts. Staying in the news in the off-season equating to ticket sales - not buying it.
also fair...but when you're starting from such a low point I wouldn't doubt that just showing a bit of effort could get the attention of at least a few folks.
How is that a thing
Sometimes computers are dumb. Or people are dumb.
Sometimes ppl are gullible.