I’ve said this Twitter a couple times b4 but Pirates fans just better enjoy Paul Skenes, hope the Pirates can win while he’s here and get the RIGHT prospect return when the time comes. Cause he’s GONE!!
And here’s the reasons:
1.The service clock is already ticking.
2.He’ll do well in arb years so combined with reason #1, the Pirates only really have two(2) per-arb years to leverage against him for a long term deal.
3.He’s not poor and signed a 9.2M signing if bonus just last year.
4.He’ll be a 500M player in Free Agency if he just waits a couple years and that prices the Pirates out(way out).
So in conclusion, he can just wait a couple years and go to LA(where’s he’s from) with his famous GF and be a 500M player and one of the top paid athletes in sports.
Or he can give a notoriously bad franchise an ungodly discount on a couple of his prime years and not be competitive during his prime(and lose awards for not being on a competitive team).
Hmmm, tough one!! Everyone and their mother better be telling the kid just to wait and not take the Pirates stupid low-ball contract extension. Again, just enjoy him and hope ………….. cause he gone!!
To beat a dead horse.... I simply don't trust Cherington to make good trades. Can we get a good cotton candy vendor for Cherington and a better bullpen phone for Shelton? Too bad we can't get something for Nutting!
The Pirates have MLB-caliber pitching to trade, and they also have a group of MI's that could also help get a power hitting young OF/1B.
Nick Gonzales was a bust in 2023 who made the jump to MLB in 2024 and corrected most of all of the area's he failed at in 2023. He is a strong fielding 2B with 5 years of control remaining and his play this year earned him a 1.3 fWAR. Combined with one of our MLB-Caliber pitchers, we could have the value to get a young power hitting OF/1B in return. Bae and Williams are worth next to nothing in trade, but combined with pitching they could be tradeable also.
We need to trade value to get value in return! And, making a trade like that while keeping Shelton as the Manager is dumb, dumb, dumb. Give this team a chance to succeed.
Excited for this whole series, would love a shrewd move or two like the cubs did for michael busch last year. I guess the exception would be near ready big league pitching for a ready bat instead of guys in the lower minors, but I think that was a great find for a guy that was clearly blocked and going nowhere
NoLa hints in one of his posts below that he’s going in this direction, but I can’t see free agency being the answer. Free agency for the Pirates under this regime has proven again and again to be a straight road to signing mediocre vets with little left in the tank. They simply won’t spend market rate for quality free agents and all of our screaming and gnashing of teeth won’t change that fact.
I’m hoping for two approaches, though I don’t have confidence in the GM to implement them effectively. One is to trade for guys with upside who are blocked or otherwise not valued by their organizations. I’m thinking something like Pena for Van Slyke, Lavalliere, and Dunne. Do the Pirates have the equivalent of Pena? How about Reynolds? LIke Pena, he’s about to enter his decline phase, but for now is an all-star talent. The key is the quality of the scouting. After this year’s fiascos in the off season and at the trade deadline, I have no confidence in the Pirates’ major league scouting operation, but theoretically this is an excellent way to add talent.
The other realistic possibility is to sign as minor league free agents or make minor trades for guys who are blocked due to the sheer depth in their current organization. I hate to keep bringing up ancient examples, but the Pirates built their last World Series winning team partially by plucking guys like Bill Robinson and Mike Easler off the scrap heap. A smart front office can take advantage of freely available talent, but again this is totally dependent on excellent scouting.
I do think the Pirates’ young starting pitching depth is impressive. But injuries to pitchers are so frequent that I would be somewhat reluctant to trade from that depth. But I can see the argument for this approach as well.
I can get on board with your thought process, but trading Reynolds is a non-starter for me. He’s the best hitter on the team. I would trade everyone not named Paul Skenes before Reynolds.
The single most realistic way for this team to be a viable playoff team next year is to unlock the potential of Hayes, Suwinski, Davis, Endy, and Peguero. Because we know for a fact they won’t be going out to buy 3+ WAR FA’s, nor trading from their pitching depth for this type hitter.
BN is super cheap and BC won’t go out on a limb like NH did when he traded for Archer.
Just prepare yourself for a disappointing Hot Stove season, and pray the new hitting coach and strength coach are way better than the previous guys.
Yes. The only reason Cherington still has a job is because his contract has not expired and Nutting could care less about being competitive. 29 out of 30 MLB owners would have sacked him within 24 hours of the end of the season. Even Nutting has limits though. Cherington has to know that next year is do or die for him. Expect a desperation move or two.
i think the reason he still has his job is because the 9 game losing streak caught Nutting and Travis off guard and they did bother to prepare for plan B
I think, unless something drastically changes, it's well understood they're not going to pay the going rates for competent big league bats. Now, maybe they could fall into a mid tier bat/contract, if a player is convinced they're serious.
Which is something I've mentioned in the past, that a way they could prove to a FA target they're serious, is making competitive moves. Making some baseball trades that emphasize improving the big club will build intrigue. So, maybe they can use their $20M budget (or whatever it is) on an actual good player or two, rather than spreading it around on 8 and hoping for the best.
What’s most maddening as a fan is not to see them continuously fail to make the playoffs, although that sucks really bad, it’s watching them take the same failed approach to building a winning organization year after year.
The only conclusion I can come to is BN doesn’t care about winning as long as the balance sheet looks good.
If I wasn’t loyal like a dog, you know the kind that gets left outside in the heat without water, gets spanked for no reason, and made to sleep in the cold, but still wags his tail at the site of his Owner, I would give up on this organization. But unfortunately for me, I’m just not hardwired to abandon a sinking ship.
It's easy to figure out who the Pirates will go after. Just ask yourself which guy won't have any other interest on a major league deal. Goldschmidt probably isn't there yet.
The budget is a problem, but not the biggest problem. Other teams win sometimes with small budgets. They could maybe make something with what they have with a couple quality additions, but that would mean that Cherington has to abandon his passion for picking up every piece of junk available on the free-agent market.
I'm more interested on how they can replace the coaching. The roster does look better then it did last year. There is more talent here, but they need to sharpened by the coaching. Here's hoping we hoping we pursue more aggressively.
I’ve said this Twitter a couple times b4 but Pirates fans just better enjoy Paul Skenes, hope the Pirates can win while he’s here and get the RIGHT prospect return when the time comes. Cause he’s GONE!!
And here’s the reasons:
1.The service clock is already ticking.
2.He’ll do well in arb years so combined with reason #1, the Pirates only really have two(2) per-arb years to leverage against him for a long term deal.
3.He’s not poor and signed a 9.2M signing if bonus just last year.
4.He’ll be a 500M player in Free Agency if he just waits a couple years and that prices the Pirates out(way out).
So in conclusion, he can just wait a couple years and go to LA(where’s he’s from) with his famous GF and be a 500M player and one of the top paid athletes in sports.
Or he can give a notoriously bad franchise an ungodly discount on a couple of his prime years and not be competitive during his prime(and lose awards for not being on a competitive team).
Hmmm, tough one!! Everyone and their mother better be telling the kid just to wait and not take the Pirates stupid low-ball contract extension. Again, just enjoy him and hope ………….. cause he gone!!
Reds hired Terry Francona lol
Dude grew up in New Brighton!
To beat a dead horse.... I simply don't trust Cherington to make good trades. Can we get a good cotton candy vendor for Cherington and a better bullpen phone for Shelton? Too bad we can't get something for Nutting!
Just do not see FA signings in the offseason, or at least I hope there aren't any unless there is a NEW GM...maybe a trade or two.
For me it's Ortiz that is safe and Keller maybe on the outside looking in...
The Pirates have MLB-caliber pitching to trade, and they also have a group of MI's that could also help get a power hitting young OF/1B.
Nick Gonzales was a bust in 2023 who made the jump to MLB in 2024 and corrected most of all of the area's he failed at in 2023. He is a strong fielding 2B with 5 years of control remaining and his play this year earned him a 1.3 fWAR. Combined with one of our MLB-Caliber pitchers, we could have the value to get a young power hitting OF/1B in return. Bae and Williams are worth next to nothing in trade, but combined with pitching they could be tradeable also.
We need to trade value to get value in return! And, making a trade like that while keeping Shelton as the Manager is dumb, dumb, dumb. Give this team a chance to succeed.
Who will trade the traders?
Excited for this whole series, would love a shrewd move or two like the cubs did for michael busch last year. I guess the exception would be near ready big league pitching for a ready bat instead of guys in the lower minors, but I think that was a great find for a guy that was clearly blocked and going nowhere
NoLa hints in one of his posts below that he’s going in this direction, but I can’t see free agency being the answer. Free agency for the Pirates under this regime has proven again and again to be a straight road to signing mediocre vets with little left in the tank. They simply won’t spend market rate for quality free agents and all of our screaming and gnashing of teeth won’t change that fact.
I’m hoping for two approaches, though I don’t have confidence in the GM to implement them effectively. One is to trade for guys with upside who are blocked or otherwise not valued by their organizations. I’m thinking something like Pena for Van Slyke, Lavalliere, and Dunne. Do the Pirates have the equivalent of Pena? How about Reynolds? LIke Pena, he’s about to enter his decline phase, but for now is an all-star talent. The key is the quality of the scouting. After this year’s fiascos in the off season and at the trade deadline, I have no confidence in the Pirates’ major league scouting operation, but theoretically this is an excellent way to add talent.
The other realistic possibility is to sign as minor league free agents or make minor trades for guys who are blocked due to the sheer depth in their current organization. I hate to keep bringing up ancient examples, but the Pirates built their last World Series winning team partially by plucking guys like Bill Robinson and Mike Easler off the scrap heap. A smart front office can take advantage of freely available talent, but again this is totally dependent on excellent scouting.
I do think the Pirates’ young starting pitching depth is impressive. But injuries to pitchers are so frequent that I would be somewhat reluctant to trade from that depth. But I can see the argument for this approach as well.
I can get on board with your thought process, but trading Reynolds is a non-starter for me. He’s the best hitter on the team. I would trade everyone not named Paul Skenes before Reynolds.
The single most realistic way for this team to be a viable playoff team next year is to unlock the potential of Hayes, Suwinski, Davis, Endy, and Peguero. Because we know for a fact they won’t be going out to buy 3+ WAR FA’s, nor trading from their pitching depth for this type hitter.
BN is super cheap and BC won’t go out on a limb like NH did when he traded for Archer.
Just prepare yourself for a disappointing Hot Stove season, and pray the new hitting coach and strength coach are way better than the previous guys.
every GM eventually goes out on the limb
hail mary is moments away
Yes. The only reason Cherington still has a job is because his contract has not expired and Nutting could care less about being competitive. 29 out of 30 MLB owners would have sacked him within 24 hours of the end of the season. Even Nutting has limits though. Cherington has to know that next year is do or die for him. Expect a desperation move or two.
i think the reason he still has his job is because the 9 game losing streak caught Nutting and Travis off guard and they did bother to prepare for plan B
Travis doesn't even know what baseball _is_
The real question to be answered this winter is, “Will BC modify his FA philosophy with whatever dollars he has at his disposal?”
Rather than go after several FA’s on one-year deals, will he seek fewer FA’s on multi-year deals?
Unfortunately, I think I know the answer.
I think, unless something drastically changes, it's well understood they're not going to pay the going rates for competent big league bats. Now, maybe they could fall into a mid tier bat/contract, if a player is convinced they're serious.
Which is something I've mentioned in the past, that a way they could prove to a FA target they're serious, is making competitive moves. Making some baseball trades that emphasize improving the big club will build intrigue. So, maybe they can use their $20M budget (or whatever it is) on an actual good player or two, rather than spreading it around on 8 and hoping for the best.
What’s most maddening as a fan is not to see them continuously fail to make the playoffs, although that sucks really bad, it’s watching them take the same failed approach to building a winning organization year after year.
The only conclusion I can come to is BN doesn’t care about winning as long as the balance sheet looks good.
If I wasn’t loyal like a dog, you know the kind that gets left outside in the heat without water, gets spanked for no reason, and made to sleep in the cold, but still wags his tail at the site of his Owner, I would give up on this organization. But unfortunately for me, I’m just not hardwired to abandon a sinking ship.
AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!
Yeah, it's funny that in 5 years, they're essentially in the exact same position they were
Actually worse when the state of the minor league system is taken into consideration.
Funny? Funny how?
Cue the Joe Pesci memes.
Draft odds are out. Ben's losers have a 5.31% chance. Cleve got the last top pick with a 2% chance.
The WS, who lost several thousand games this year, pick 10th. Hardy har har.
Jared Jones to the Nats for CJ Abrams, sign Kepler RF and O’Neil LF and move Reynolds to 1b. Bring back Chapman.
No thanks for Abrams. He's more immature than Cruz. Kepler is hurt all the time.
And so is Tyler O’Neill, but even that isle is out of the team budget.
Will file this under Pirates fan wet dream.
Every suggestion we make is a wet dream!
Watch them make washed up Paul Goldschmidt their big signing this winter. Man will I be pissed!
It's easy to figure out who the Pirates will go after. Just ask yourself which guy won't have any other interest on a major league deal. Goldschmidt probably isn't there yet.
So we can anticipate Cherington rushing out to sign Eddie Rosario and Garret Cooper right after the winter meetings.
Bob Nutting says “no soup for you!”
Good start of the discussion NOLA.
The obvious targets need to be RF and !B. Those are embarrassing black holes with nothing in the pipeline.
One solid ML signing and one solid baseball trade can be achieved even on the Nutting budget.
The budget is a problem, but not the biggest problem. Other teams win sometimes with small budgets. They could maybe make something with what they have with a couple quality additions, but that would mean that Cherington has to abandon his passion for picking up every piece of junk available on the free-agent market.
lets talk about sending KeBryan and Termarr to the Blue Jays for Vlad Jr.
also, blue jays looking for a catcher
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/09/al-notes-reinsdorf-blue-jays-rays-diaz.html
Maybe they'd be interested in a bullpen arm
And? You can't pick and choose which innings are good or bad. Keller is still one of the better pitchers on the staff.
I'm more interested on how they can replace the coaching. The roster does look better then it did last year. There is more talent here, but they need to sharpened by the coaching. Here's hoping we hoping we pursue more aggressively.
Nice piece, Nola!