36 Comments

It's looking more and more like the WC is out of reach. It didn't help that the back end of their schedule featured so many playoff bound teams. But those are the teams they needed to keep up with.

I was hopeful, but it does seem like Shelton doesn't know how to fix their issues. I do foresee he and Haines getting the boot by end of season plus 500 or not. Just like with Russell, way back when, this team is poised to be great and needs a veteran manager to lead them to the promised land. I'm not sure who the answer is but I do hope they keep Oscar Marin. He's done some good work. He helped bring Mitch Keller back from disarray, and overall his pitching staff's have outperformed their skills IMO. I understand, though if the incoming guy would want to install his own coaches, though.

Expand full comment

Also this was an good article, and I'm glad you wrote it.

Expand full comment

I’ll toss out some options…

1. Shelton is not a playoff manager, he has to go and I’d stick with Leyland tree. Don Kelley.

2. Move Reynolds to center, bring up 26 years old Cook to left. It’s now or never with him anyway. Taylor dfa.

3. York up to secure 2nd for now. IKF to third. Key to aaa to work out the swing.

4. Go for it- Bubba up and to the pen. Heller bye.

5. Activate JJ dump Gonzales

6. Henry up and dump yaz.

This is the must do list. For now and the future and less than this should lead to serious questions about BC’s commitment to win.

Expand full comment

Ps second choice for manager would be Van Slyke who also is of the Leyland coaching tree and would have the drive to finish what wasn’t finished in the 90’s.

Expand full comment

No money. No accountability. No real drive by ownership or management to actually win ballgames. Until we see a different offseason, there will be more of the same in the Burgh and lifelong fans like myself are getting tired of it. My kids would stay a new generation of fans and probably their kids, too, if not for this nonsense. The effects on the economy of the team from this losing are palpable and if a CEO ran a company like this bunch does, they'd not only be fired but possibly sued.

Expand full comment

A few points:

1. Actions motivated by panic seldom produce good results.

2. The 2024 Pirates had a weak chance at making the post season. It's weaker now.

3. The trade deadline is in the rear view mirror.

4. There are few position player prospects that can provide immediate help.

5. A few pitching prospects might be helpful additions to the 2024 bullpen.

6. Nutting tied Cherrington's hands during the 2024 trade deadline and during the 2023-2024 winter period.

7. Cherrington lacked the funds to do more than he did each period.

8. The 2024 Trade Deadline was a seller's market.

9. Nutting is the problem, not Cherrington.

It's hard to fight a gun battle after the bullet bin is emty.

Expand full comment

okay- i see your points, even if they are scattered thoughts packaged together. At this point, what exactly can be done other than wait for JJ, Gonzales, and even Palacios to come back in terms of "roster changes"- literally nothing. If you don't think De La Cruz and IKF are significant improvements, then surely you aren't saying there's any reason to suggest that anyone we have in AAA could be one? When guys come off the IL, roster decisions will be made. Triolo likely will go down, and one of the pitchers will need to go back to AAA. We sent down Olivares, we sent down Suwinsky, we brought up Bae and Gonzales, we brought Palacios when he was finally healthy. At this point in the season, I'm not really sure what it is that you are suggesting right now, it kinda seems like an aimless rant.

Expand full comment

The Pirates definitely need Jared Jones to return to the Rotation.

I have already commented that it was time to send Triolo and Bae down, if we want to see what we have in Nick Yorke and Billy Cook. Triolo was the star last year, but has not reached anywhere near where he was last year. NG was a star in May (.913 OPS), but a .638 OPS in June, a .533 OPS for July, and an overall K/BB rate over 5/1 is proof that he needs to stay down at AAA if he returns from the IL in August. If Yorke and Cook do not prove their worth at the MLB level, then it will be wide open again in September!

Expand full comment

Aimless rant is all Cherington's 2024 Pirates are owed.

Expand full comment

Murph, you hit this one into the Allegheny.

Expand full comment

ksox just canned their manager

fire shelton and Haines and give Rock and KY a run at it for the rest of the year

Expand full comment

I'd prefer they put Joe Block on the bench. Then I don't have to listen to him call games anymore.

Expand full comment

You're a good dude, Murph. Love your style, and don't sell yourself short.

Expand full comment

Agreed, but scoring runs hasn’t been the problem during these close losses. There really isn’t any answer in AAA for the bullpen. That’s why nothing is being done.

Expand full comment
Aug 8·edited Aug 8

should be cut and dry

.500+ shelton keeps his hide

under .500 we have a new manager and coaches in november

Expand full comment

I'd prefer Shelton fired either way. Too many blown games and miscues. Ofc it's out there that he and Ben are close personal friends so my solution is...fire Ben too!

Expand full comment

i think by Ben saying that we have the existing talent to win right now, isnt that his sublte way of throwing Shelton and Haines under the bus right now and set the stage to fire them?

Expand full comment

ive never seen them in a photo together

Expand full comment

just for fun, i wonder who would be on the list of candidates to be manager next year?

i would assume that a prerequisit is a resume of long tenure and previous playoff success

funny that Hurdle checks those boxes

Expand full comment

Hurdle was one of the worst situational managers i've ever seen.

Expand full comment

and a jackass of a human too

Expand full comment

who´s on your list of manager candidates?

Expand full comment

in their minds, they should be playing tooth and nail to end the season above .500

Expand full comment

How about beginning with sending Ke Hayes to A ball to rebuild his swing and pushing Oneil Cruz to 3B and IKR to SS for the rest of the season?

Expand full comment

well you can't. Ke has no options, unless someone injures him and he goes there on a rehab assignment. Putting Cruz at 3rd would be a literal disaster. He would need an entire full offseason to figure that out if that was the plan.

Expand full comment

Hayes has two MiLB options left! Hayes doesn't have 5 years of service time and can't reject assignment to the minors.

Expand full comment

My mistake, thanks!

Expand full comment

I still wouldn't send him to A ball, because....why? Maybe Altoona would be logical. Or maybe its just his back and we can't fix it. This isn't something we are privy to

Expand full comment

i'm sure there's been plenty of people with radical ideas on how to "fix Yelich" the last few years, but you can't fix a swing around a bad back, its just gotta get better.

Expand full comment

With Hayes it's not _just_ a bad back. It's an inside out and flat or decline swing that will never elevate the ball.

Expand full comment

I think Bradenton is where they tend to do that kind of work. It's likely where their Trajekt machine is and where Bart the Dutch Movement and Dance Guru are stationed.

Expand full comment

Good piece here AM! You absolutely kill so many facets of this site with regular fantastic reporting of stats, updates, video, etc. but I know that I (and many others) think that you are a very intelligent baseball mind so its fun to read a piece where its just your voice and your opinion on the state of things. Always a big supporter, but this one was extra fun

Expand full comment

Well said, Anthony. Agree 100%.

Expand full comment
deletedAug 8·edited Aug 8
Comment deleted
Expand full comment

You could certainly add the economic model of MLB in general into this.

Expand full comment