One thing unmentioned is that Shelton did a pretty good job managing this bullpen down the stretch with only 2 reliable starters. Maybe he is not as bad at managing a bullpen as he is made out to be, or maybe he is learning and getting better. I side with the latter. Hopefully he is watching some of these guys in the post-season and how they are managing their bullpens. I think this is some of the best bullpen useage I remember seeing in the post-season. Lovullo, Bochy, Baker, and Thomson are all doing a very good job. These are, IMO, four of the best managers in baseball, and it is no coincidence that their teams are in the LCS. Manager is an underrated position.
B+ best group they've had in a while. Mlod, Holderman and Bednar could use another arm or 2 to complement them at the end of games. They might have them in house with Nicolas and Selby. Hopefully Moreta can be the fireman he was earlier in the season. Jackson and Falter were decent for long arms (once through) but struggle if longer. Finally some lefties with potential, could still use another shutdown lefty.
I surprised myself and gave the BP a B. Bednar had a 2.5 WAR. Holderman had 0.7. Moreta had 0.7. Hernandez had -0.1. Borucki had 1.4. Mlodzinski had 0.8. Perdomo had 0.4. Yohan had 0.0. Yerry had 0.4. Zastryzny had -0.3. Underwood had 0.0. Stephenson had 1.1. That's almost all positive WAR out of their top inning pitchers. That's the name of the game. This was a no-name group that had a very nice year!
I surprised myself and gave the BP a B. Bednar had a 2.5 WAR. Holderman had 0.7. Moreta had 0.7. Hernandez had -0.1. Borucki had 1.4. Mlodzinski had 0.8. Perdomo had 0.4. Yohan had 0.0. Yerry had 0.4. Zastryzny had -0.3. Underwood had 0.0. Stephenson had 1.1. That's almost all positive WAR out of their top inning pitchers. That's the name of the game. This was a no-name group that had a very nice year!
The best records in the National League since September 1st were the Pirates, Padres and the the 6 play-off teams. I think the Pirates benefited more than some teams by having an extra hitter or two on the roster.
IMO, one priority in the offseason should be a legit shutdown reliever, ideally a lefty. They have lots of upside guys, lottery tickets, development types. They don’t need quantity or depth now. They need somebody who just slots straight in.
If they got a lefty, with Perdomo if healthy, Borucki and R5 guy, they could wreak havoc on LH heavy lineups.
Honestly thought the pen was very good, feels like we could be on our way to matching some of these playoff pens in terms of pure stuff we have available
What I liked was that they moved on in the middle relief area from guys like Crowe and De Jong, whose function was to keep Shelton from having to think during losses, to guys who could actually snuff out rallies. Moreta, Mlod, Borucki, Perdomo and others actually did well at that.
Moreta actually had a terrific year. His final stats were messed up by two awful but brief stretches -- three games in late June when he gave up 8 ER in 1.1 IP, and the four games he threw in Aug just before and after going on the IL, when he gave up 6 in 4.2. The rest of the year he gave up 10 ER in 52 IP.
To add to this, the bullpen was only 19th and 20th in ERA and xFIP, but they were 11th in fWAR and 10th in WPA. I think that shows the pen was better structured.
Analytics might prove otherwise, but I think the Pirates would benefit from 14 hitters and 12 pitchers. Maybe not 2024, but possibly 2025 when they should have several pitchers that can throw multiple innings in relief when they could possibly be adding guys like Skenes, Jones, Harrington, Chandler, Ashcraft, Shim, Wolf, Burrows to the roster.
I am not a podcast person at all, but listened to this start to finish. I like the outside the box thinking that McKenry shared. Also, he said some things he would never say on the air. I agreed with about 90% of what he said. Thanks for sharing.
I am so glad that you enjoyed! I was also super refreshed on how brutally honest he was at times and shared some real perspective that I dont know that we would get much anywhere else.
Rated the 2023 BP an A - they hung in all year and were the glue holding together a shaky Rotation. Give cred to BC for picking Jose Hernandez in the Rule 5, getting Dauri Moreta from Cincy for Kevin Newman, and picking up Ryan Borucki during the season. And, continuing, our Closer David Bednar came in the Musgrove trade with SD, Colin Holderman came from the Mets for Vogelbach, and Carmen Mlodzinski is our only home grown Reliever of the Top 6 in the BP.
If it was not for Bowen and Brannigan, Salt River would have very little power. Brannigan has been playing very well defensively at SS, and has picked up his game offensively. He is yet another multi-skilled IF being strong at both 3B and SS, which tells me he could be strong at 2B and 1B also. With his arm strength would it be wise to get him some time in the OF?
Agreed. With Garcia out all year and 6 of top 8 starters injured, imploding or traded bullpen overall was really solid all year. A bit perplexed by the Stephenson trade but in a good place going into 2024.
I don’t see the Bucs acquiring any FA relievers in the offseason, especially if they add 2 starters.
Stephenson was sporting a 5+ ERA with 8 Walks in 14 IP and was getting paid $1.75 mil. Also, the Pirates had gone through just about all of the SS replacements by June. So, Alika Williams from TB for Stephenson, and TB picked up $1.48 mil of Stephenson's contract. Actually an excellent get for the Pirates at the time. Stephenson was inspired by joining a playoff team and showed why he was being paid $1.75 mil and why he will be paid much more in 2024.
After the trade, the Pirates then concentrated their late inning RP duties to Hernandez, Moreta, Hold Man, Mlodzinski, Borucki, and Bednar, thereby setting the stage for another solid year in 2024.
One thing unmentioned is that Shelton did a pretty good job managing this bullpen down the stretch with only 2 reliable starters. Maybe he is not as bad at managing a bullpen as he is made out to be, or maybe he is learning and getting better. I side with the latter. Hopefully he is watching some of these guys in the post-season and how they are managing their bullpens. I think this is some of the best bullpen useage I remember seeing in the post-season. Lovullo, Bochy, Baker, and Thomson are all doing a very good job. These are, IMO, four of the best managers in baseball, and it is no coincidence that their teams are in the LCS. Manager is an underrated position.
B+ best group they've had in a while. Mlod, Holderman and Bednar could use another arm or 2 to complement them at the end of games. They might have them in house with Nicolas and Selby. Hopefully Moreta can be the fireman he was earlier in the season. Jackson and Falter were decent for long arms (once through) but struggle if longer. Finally some lefties with potential, could still use another shutdown lefty.
So glad they moved on from the retreads.
B+, based on the numbers above, but it really felt like the BP kept us in a lot of games, especially later in the season.
I surprised myself and gave the BP a B. Bednar had a 2.5 WAR. Holderman had 0.7. Moreta had 0.7. Hernandez had -0.1. Borucki had 1.4. Mlodzinski had 0.8. Perdomo had 0.4. Yohan had 0.0. Yerry had 0.4. Zastryzny had -0.3. Underwood had 0.0. Stephenson had 1.1. That's almost all positive WAR out of their top inning pitchers. That's the name of the game. This was a no-name group that had a very nice year!
I surprised myself and gave the BP a B. Bednar had a 2.5 WAR. Holderman had 0.7. Moreta had 0.7. Hernandez had -0.1. Borucki had 1.4. Mlodzinski had 0.8. Perdomo had 0.4. Yohan had 0.0. Yerry had 0.4. Zastryzny had -0.3. Underwood had 0.0. Stephenson had 1.1. That's almost all positive WAR out of their top inning pitchers. That's the name of the game. This was a no-name group that had a very nice year!
The best records in the National League since September 1st were the Pirates, Padres and the the 6 play-off teams. I think the Pirates benefited more than some teams by having an extra hitter or two on the roster.
I still wish we have a lefty good enough to close games when Bednar isn’t available, someone like Chapman, maybe even Moore.
AJ Puk and Eduardo Cabrera for Tank?
Tell your sources to make the deal
would probably need to include Peguero in the deal
I like that, I like it a lot actually!
Chapman and Cutch in the same clubhouse?
I personally don’t think Chapman is a good fit, but a lefty like him.
Well we already have King borucki so im not sure who could beat that!
He had a good season, but I’m not there yet. I see more potential in Perdomo than him, but I’m usually wrong!
IMO, one priority in the offseason should be a legit shutdown reliever, ideally a lefty. They have lots of upside guys, lottery tickets, development types. They don’t need quantity or depth now. They need somebody who just slots straight in.
If they got a lefty, with Perdomo if healthy, Borucki and R5 guy, they could wreak havoc on LH heavy lineups.
The success of the Rangers lefty-filled fastball-hitting lineup shows the critical importance of having a loogie and at least one lefty starter.
Nah i was more playing than anything. Perdomo seems to have some reason for optimism whereas i could see huge regression from borucki next year
You didn’t used the sarcasm font, but I saw it!
wish they didnt give up on Yohan Ramirez
Honestly thought the pen was very good, feels like we could be on our way to matching some of these playoff pens in terms of pure stuff we have available
What I liked was that they moved on in the middle relief area from guys like Crowe and De Jong, whose function was to keep Shelton from having to think during losses, to guys who could actually snuff out rallies. Moreta, Mlod, Borucki, Perdomo and others actually did well at that.
Moreta actually had a terrific year. His final stats were messed up by two awful but brief stretches -- three games in late June when he gave up 8 ER in 1.1 IP, and the four games he threw in Aug just before and after going on the IL, when he gave up 6 in 4.2. The rest of the year he gave up 10 ER in 52 IP.
To add to this, the bullpen was only 19th and 20th in ERA and xFIP, but they were 11th in fWAR and 10th in WPA. I think that shows the pen was better structured.
Amazing what good can happen from not just throwing away roster spots!!
It’s an example of why, imo, those fringe roster spots should go to guys with at least a little upside, not to guys to mark time with.
Analytics might prove otherwise, but I think the Pirates would benefit from 14 hitters and 12 pitchers. Maybe not 2024, but possibly 2025 when they should have several pitchers that can throw multiple innings in relief when they could possibly be adding guys like Skenes, Jones, Harrington, Chandler, Ashcraft, Shim, Wolf, Burrows to the roster.
If anyone is into that sort of the thing, a long but really fun listen of the NS9 podcast with McKenry as a guest! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wns9-pittsburgh-pirates-mlb-playoffs-w-michael-mckenry/id1121087373?i=1000631822296
I am not a podcast person at all, but listened to this start to finish. I like the outside the box thinking that McKenry shared. Also, he said some things he would never say on the air. I agreed with about 90% of what he said. Thanks for sharing.
I am so glad that you enjoyed! I was also super refreshed on how brutally honest he was at times and shared some real perspective that I dont know that we would get much anywhere else.
Rated the 2023 BP an A - they hung in all year and were the glue holding together a shaky Rotation. Give cred to BC for picking Jose Hernandez in the Rule 5, getting Dauri Moreta from Cincy for Kevin Newman, and picking up Ryan Borucki during the season. And, continuing, our Closer David Bednar came in the Musgrove trade with SD, Colin Holderman came from the Mets for Vogelbach, and Carmen Mlodzinski is our only home grown Reliever of the Top 6 in the BP.
If it was not for Bowen and Brannigan, Salt River would have very little power. Brannigan has been playing very well defensively at SS, and has picked up his game offensively. He is yet another multi-skilled IF being strong at both 3B and SS, which tells me he could be strong at 2B and 1B also. With his arm strength would it be wise to get him some time in the OF?
Agreed. With Garcia out all year and 6 of top 8 starters injured, imploding or traded bullpen overall was really solid all year. A bit perplexed by the Stephenson trade but in a good place going into 2024.
I don’t see the Bucs acquiring any FA relievers in the offseason, especially if they add 2 starters.
Stephenson was sporting a 5+ ERA with 8 Walks in 14 IP and was getting paid $1.75 mil. Also, the Pirates had gone through just about all of the SS replacements by June. So, Alika Williams from TB for Stephenson, and TB picked up $1.48 mil of Stephenson's contract. Actually an excellent get for the Pirates at the time. Stephenson was inspired by joining a playoff team and showed why he was being paid $1.75 mil and why he will be paid much more in 2024.
After the trade, the Pirates then concentrated their late inning RP duties to Hernandez, Moreta, Hold Man, Mlodzinski, Borucki, and Bednar, thereby setting the stage for another solid year in 2024.
Don’t underestimate BC’s desire to dumpster dive.