A lost year from middle of June on and not tanking for a change
Perfect opportunity for Hank and Endy to split C duties and learn RF and 1B when not behind dish
especially after deadline.
Instead we watched Delay, Hedges, Rivas, Joe, and Palacios to some extent play the same 3 positions while knowing all but maybe Palacios have zero future here
They were just winging it with 2 starters when really should have been one
another collossel mistake
How can ANYONE think its OK to use a swing Pitcher
120 more innings, 2000 more pitches from one year to the next and then when asked
"As the off season progressed he said he felt something wasn't right.
He didn't experience any soreness during the season, when you pitch that many innings its a long season of peeks and valley's. He as well as all of us felt comfortable with the work he put in"
Ok, is that like my dad telling me i don't have to wait for the roof to start leaking before i replace
Are Shelty and Marin for reals?
I used to joke S and M were unfit to guide, benefit of doubt cause of tanking
Guess what, THEIR UNFIT TO RUN BINGO, PICK UP DRY CLEANING of go to a yawning festival
I have utmost respect for BC, however it worries me after the bogus extension, what will it take moving forward to SACK this guy as i they are very tight
Just a comment about using the Catcher's percentage of baserunners thrown out as a measure of a Catcher's ability. There are a lot of moving parts that need to be known and first is the time it takes the average baserunner to steal 2B. The 10 best have sprint speeds between 28 and 29 ft/sec, and if they get good jumps (which they all do) it is near impossible to throw them out. Figure the runners lead at 1B is right around 7 feet so he has to have a good lead and then get a good jump and run 83 feet to get to second base. Quick math says that if a runner is going 28 feet per second, 3 seconds is 84 feet.
Next is the time it takes for a Pitcher to deliver the ball to the Catcher, and then the Catcher's time it takes to receive the ball and then get it to second base (pop time). Quickest delivery to the plate by a pitcher from the stretch is a slide step - usually 1.2 seconds. The pop time is the time it takes from the ball reaching the Catcher's glove from the pitcher until he has received, set, and thrown thrown the ball and it has been received at second base. Davis has been measured as a 1.9 sec pop time. So if the pitcher slide steps, throws a FB, and the Catcher does his best pop time, it could take 3.1 sec for the ball to reach second base, too late for the elite baserunners.
And all of that is in a perfect situation. What are the variables? First, many pitchers in this era have never learned how to throw to the plate using a slide step, therefore their quickest delivery from the stretch could be 1.4 seconds or higher. Second, what pitch has been called? If anything other than a straight FB, add time. Third, where is the pitch located? That could add time also. Fourth, there is still a batter at the plate, and nobody wants to put a ball on a tee and give up 2 runs trying to prevent a SB. Pitchouts could work, but again, how much do pitcher's work on throwing a pitchout to stop a SB.
We just started into a new era of more value on SB's. Teams catch on and then instruct their pitchers and catchers how to be better able to "control" a running game.
Let's take it easy haha. Endy was worth .7 fWAR last year and was 35% below league average as a hitter. While Ali Sanchez can't replace his upside, I'm pretty confident he could put up similar production to Endy's 2023. Delay certainly can. Davis is just a big upside question mark. Losing Cruz last year and the -2 ish fWAR swing from him to the guys who replaced him was a bigger deal.
You do understand ER is a bat first switch hitting Catcher with even splits, along with freakish hit tools, and one kid who knows the Zone. He will be one that benefits the most
from auto zone.
What you witnessed in 2023 was an ANOMALY
Delay had a BABIP of .333 which helped reach his life ceiling with under 200 PA
Endy had .281 BABIP, which helped him to the floor.
Shelty had a hand in that floor as well with his you hit you sit mentality
Why for no reason would you sit a kid breaking out with his 1st HR,
bases loaded GW triple in consecutive days
Look at his game logs, that happened a handful of times
These kids were never sitting Peggy, Tree, Endy have to be like what did i do?
I thought I helped us win and I'm locked in ready to be me
Shelty will screw up a one car funeral, IT WOULDN'T BE UNLIKE HIM
The kid was here for almost half a season
Only started half of those games and ended with under 190 AB's
Now, this is your number one prospect and Minor league POY
He should have been up sooner and been treated like De la Cruz
EVERY GAME, EVERY AT BAT POSSIBLE, but that would be too easy.
Now go play winter ball to make up for the lost AB's
I cant believe i responded to a post that compared
Ali (5 games in BIGS )Sanchez
and
Jason (where did all the holes go) Delay
Before the Endy news, with Davis catching, signing Sanchez,
I learned something today--for many years I thought payroll was tied to TV revenue since that was such a big part of the overall revenue stream. But Williams told Mackey that he doesn't "think payroll is a product of our TV deal".
Or maybe he's just acknowledging that Nutting really isn't interested in using revenue to increase to payroll beyond what it's been.
Been thinking through the endy news today and its hitting me harder and harder. What saves our offseason at this point? Pulling off some huge trade like Cease + Robert makes us maybe a wild card team if everything else breaks right? Probably would cost something in the neighborhood of termarr, bubba, harrington, and lonnie white, and I dont even know if thats enough. If not some big trade like that, feels like we need to go on a bigger spending spree than I can really fathom to make this all work. Pessimism is the feeling of today....
They need to sign a legitimate middle of the rotation starter at market rate and another bounce back arm. Without doing that, the window really won't open until 2026 and a lot will have to go right for that to happen.
Honestly they need to sign the middle of the rotation arm before they extend Keller.
If they want to push (really fold) in 2024, they might as well trade Keller and Bednar at max value and pray all the young guys can somehow succeed in an organization they puts them in a position to fail.
I'm predicting another 100 loss season until I see a real addition to the starting rotation.
Kranick, Falter and Jackson are all on the bubble to be DFA, traded or maybe Jackson relief, he's one and done thru line up..
Kranick is getting a look, they have hung on to him not to
Falter needs to get better, they will never miss him, he's here because of Castro so who cares, i can't believe they gave us anything
Jones has something to prove and he will
Skenes is Skenes
Harrington hasn't battled AA, even if he dominates, there are 3-4 ahead of him
Brubaker i heard is ahead of schedule, May on high side june on the low
I'm writing Burrows off until 2025, i mean he needed to pitch well before the unfortunate, his surgury was a month behind bru"s, i don't see them taking any chances and theris no rush
Bubba and solo would have to go full tilt cy young minor league version and even then?
ASH is the WC, im sure they have a plan, slow couple innings here, couple there
he should be able to build up to 5-6 innings, 75-80 P
Seriously, though, Tellez is a decent buy low addition just as long as he's one of several options going into the season and not someone we're counting on to be an everyday player
You’re a lot more trusting of Cherington than I am. I hope, and one would certainly believe with Endy’s injury, that Davis will become the primary catcher next year, but not so fast my friend. Cherington’s not noted for doing the things he says he plans to do. Both Delay and Sanchez are also on the 40 man roster and it’s certainly not out of the question that they could do most or all of the catching with Davis roaming around in right field again. Not likely you say? We have to trust BC on this you say? Not me, at least not until he actually starts doing things to improve the team.
Alright, for sake of discussion I'll make the same request I did with Oneil:
Put a number on it!
How many runs could Hank give up before throwing in the towel?
This incredibly dumb conversation around whether Cruz "can" or "can't" play shortstop isn't how baseball works. Everything comes down to quality, nothing is as reductive as can or can't. Nobody is stupid enough to claim a pitcher "can" start after a season in which he posts an ERA above 6. Same exact logic applies to defense.
So, how bad can Hank be, how many runs can he give up, and still be considered a big league catcher.
It could be quite high, again this is the organization putting a player in a position to fail. He was rushed to the majors hoping his bat would help, putting him in right field where he had very little experience. They never gave his defense a chance to develop at catcher or right field for that matter. Beyond experience, although he is athletic, he is stiff and appears to me to have very hard hands (why I think 1st base would really be a disaster).
Even with his faults, his work ethic, character, hitting ability and enthusiasm/leadership are some qualities I wouldn't want to set a limit on him eventually figuring out how to make it work. The majors isn't the microscope to figure it out under though.
Personally I would have tried to develop him as a right fielder but I feel the pirates will start him at catcher putting him right back in a position to fail because they can't see the forest because the trees are in the way.
To answer your question probably 25 in 1000 innings, but if he is hitting it could be a lot more with this organization.
I don't think he will be as bad as I posted (25 in 1000), I think that would be the point they make a change unless he is raking then it could be more. I didn't really clarify it in my post. I just wish they would be more thorough in the development of these young guys instead of throwing them in the deep end.
I'm also a little worried about his health. He is a full go type of guy, and injuries have certainly been in play since being drafted.
I don't think so either, but understand I could not have said that this time last year
Reason being, I watched the AFL form start to finish and Hank simply was outplayed by Blake Sabol, i mean it was bad. In fact Hank didn't finish, Sabol was behind the dish for the playoffs which he helped Surprise win it all
However, I buy the MILB package and one thing that interesed me was Henry starting in Altoona and playing everyday. So i watched him everyday. i'm going into detail so i will do this, on a scale of 1-10
4 in the AFL
7 in Altoona
He was like a different C,
I was more shocked than impressed as i couldn't believe someone could close the gap on not sucking, he really came along way, Now I'm saying he's Johnny Bench but he was better than I remember Sabol out West
last March I spent a week at ST, Pirate city, etc
This will upset you so sit down
At pirate city two different occaisions
HANK WAS IN RF shagging balls, throwing to bases
and
Two days later grapefruit game at LeCom got rained out so they played
Upper VS Lower Minors intersquad game
HANK WAS IN RIGHT FIELD, CANNON ON FULL DISPLAY
IDC what anyone says, Hank can play RF, its the BRASS that don't know WTF their doing
I agree, he can play right field. I just don't trust the organization to properly develop anyone. I'm glad he went to training facilities outside the organization.
I think he could develop into a slightly better than average right fielder, I never thought Doumit could do that.
In my opinion, his hard hands will ultimately limit him to the corner outfield spots, which in Pittsburgh leaves right field as his final field position or he becomes a long-term DH emergency catcher.
Sorry for being long winded but I really think this organization is going to screw up another development year for him.
For comparison, Elias Diaz is easily the worst catcher in baseball right now. He gives up about 17 runs for every 1000 innings caught. Nobody else comes close.
A typical "bad" catcher gives up around 8 runs per 1000 innings.
It was interesting that, back in the prospect days, it was often said that Pedro would have to move off third. And he did. Just in a way no one would anticipate.
Personally I am excited to see what he can do. No matter what the opinions of the team and their progress, Hank's success is high on the list of key factors. Obviously his bat is his carrying tool, but if he can be a competent catcher that opens many possibilities. On a related note, there has been mention of his injury last year both impacting his hitting (timing seems to align with his struggle, but it could also have been MLB pitching adjusting) but also preventing them from letting him catch. Anybody recall any official comments / timelines? I'm not trying to make excuses, but it can also potentially add to my optimism (or fear he is always getting HBP and hurt).
If there's one thing I'm least worried about, it's Tank's bat. I do think it's going to come around. What worries me is that I was already concerned about the ripple effect of an injury, particularly with catcher, and it's already happened. We lose Tank for any significant time, and they're screwed. Delay is fine, defensively, but his offense was heavily weighted by March/April. You go May through the end of the season, and he had a wRC+ of 51.
I still can't wrap my head around how much they emphasized "acquire and develop depth", yet here we are looking at a team that's lost two main players (not even stars at that) and the cupboard is empty. They need to figure out the development to the majors part real quick, or it's going to be a LOOOOOOONG season.
I'll comment this here, but everybody keeps mentioned Delay. I must be on an island, but Sanchez (strength is defense) was signed to a major league contract. Unless they carry three catchers (I personally hope they don't), then shouldn't we really be saying Sanchez and Hank as our catchers to start the year? Delay has options and as you stated really fell off after an unexpected hot start. Doesn't he really profile as a MLB/AAA depth catcher?
I mention Delay because my guess would be Sanchez was signed due to the expectations Tank will handle the bulk catching duties, and Sanchez there as a body. There's also the caveat as he's likely an easy DFA candidate if a better option comes along. Also I think I had just read someone else's comment and tied it into mine cause it was on my mind lol but, if say Tank gets hurt, I'm not sure it'd be Sanchez as first man up, cause as you say he's just purely glove. But it very well may be, just as with Hedges last year.
I'm sorry but im calling a 30 second time out on behalf of Ali Sanchez
26 year old is getting short changed on the offense side
SouthernBuc was spot on, w/ (strength is defense)
but you can't turn his scouting tid bit into
"as you say he's just purly glove"
If i didn't follow Sanchez i would be the someone who read your post and now thinks he couldn't hit water if he fell from a boat, only thing worse is the comparing to hedgless
Please look at his AAA stats post covid
We signed him last year when he was DFA, we then exposed him when signing Carlos last year, Arizona caught us trying to sneak him thru
Arizona arguably has best C in the game and another behind him
Ali was blocked from the majors, they did him a favor
I'm sure BC knew he was going to elect free agency and was waiting
with open arms
This guy can help out Henry, he by no means is a DFA candidate
In fact he might be the most experienced active Catcher in the upper minors
Not many sure things in any sport especially baseball, Sanchez may never hit
ML pitching and i might be saying "he's just purely glove
They need him bad, Delay is OK in an emergency but he quite honestly was a terrible minor league prospect especially Altoona
He hit in Indy for a week or two and when called up he kept hitting thru April
Is he better than Hedges? Likely. But he's had below average offensive output across virtually his entire MiLB career. Aside from a 104 wRC+ with Detroit Triple-A.
Now, his best season, a 108 wRC+ with Arizona (which is above average, but not by much), came not only in the PCL which is hitter friendly, but Reno that is probably one of the, if not THE most hitter friendly park in all of minor leagues. He "shattered" his previous season high HRs by playing in Reno. Reno made Wyatt Mathisen look like a big league slugger.
Makes sense.. and I truly put the comment here but meant it for the overall depth chart discussion. Honestly while Sanchez is glove first, other than his hot start that is really what Delay is also. Obviously if Hank goes down things are even worse.
I'm sure there will be another Triple-A depth signing or two. I can't them rolling into 2024 with the Indy depth as Delay/Sanchez (remember, it's a split contract, so it's not even assured Sanchez is on MLB roster), Koch, and Bins.
He'll never have the defensive potential that Endy has but then many don't. But he's capable of being a above average receiver with very strong offense so it could work out. I don't see how you can't keep Delay here to help Henry learn a few things with the pitching staff plus he has shown he's more then capable as a backup catcher can be.
We first have to believe that BC will actually put him behind the dish before any of this matters. If he's willing to accept Rowdy Tellez as a solution at first base he's "capable" of bringing Austin Hedges back to catch, lol.
I was against it for years, but with all the views we as fans(and players immediately in the dugout) have now of each pitch, I am all in. And by all in I mean not the challenge rule where the player has to decide, let's get the balls / strikes right. Batters and pitchers will adjust just like I expect stolen bases to be down a hair this year as teams react to last years rules.
I know Davis will work his tail off to do his best. Poor guy is just being thrown into another positions to fail by this organization. Hope he rises above and the fan base will cut him some slack both offensively and defensively.
I wonder how Reynolds, Keller and the other players feel with the off-season. Other teams trying to get better while the pirates try to nickel and dime their way to another 100 loss season.
Injuries aside, they still needed 2 starters for the rotation and a first basemen at minimum. They are on their way to downgrading their absolute needs, I only consider 1st with Tellez as filling a need so far. I'm not optimistic about the needs of the rotation or upgrades at wants, like outfield or middle infield.
Now with the injuries they have replaced projected starter Endy with Sanchez and starting pitcher Oviedo with Marco. Two downgrades but understandable.
Still think they used him, he took a team friendly deal thinking they were going to try to get better. Instead they're punting on 3rd down. Hope they prove me wrong but I seriously doubt it.
No i totally agree, also reports of BC getting assurances that he would be able to open the wallet when he signed on were either hugely exaggerated or just fake
Me too, the Giants not landing the guys they targeted the last few years have them overpaying. That contract might work out but is probably going to hurt. Giving him an opt out after 4 years doesn't give them much of a chance for a win.
PIRATES MISSED THE BOAT AGAIN AS USUAL
2023 what a mess even with a plus 14 from 2022
A lost year from middle of June on and not tanking for a change
Perfect opportunity for Hank and Endy to split C duties and learn RF and 1B when not behind dish
especially after deadline.
Instead we watched Delay, Hedges, Rivas, Joe, and Palacios to some extent play the same 3 positions while knowing all but maybe Palacios have zero future here
They were just winging it with 2 starters when really should have been one
another collossel mistake
How can ANYONE think its OK to use a swing Pitcher
120 more innings, 2000 more pitches from one year to the next and then when asked
"As the off season progressed he said he felt something wasn't right.
He didn't experience any soreness during the season, when you pitch that many innings its a long season of peeks and valley's. He as well as all of us felt comfortable with the work he put in"
Ok, is that like my dad telling me i don't have to wait for the roof to start leaking before i replace
Are Shelty and Marin for reals?
I used to joke S and M were unfit to guide, benefit of doubt cause of tanking
Guess what, THEIR UNFIT TO RUN BINGO, PICK UP DRY CLEANING of go to a yawning festival
I have utmost respect for BC, however it worries me after the bogus extension, what will it take moving forward to SACK this guy as i they are very tight
Stinks
throw 2,000 more pitches
Just a comment about using the Catcher's percentage of baserunners thrown out as a measure of a Catcher's ability. There are a lot of moving parts that need to be known and first is the time it takes the average baserunner to steal 2B. The 10 best have sprint speeds between 28 and 29 ft/sec, and if they get good jumps (which they all do) it is near impossible to throw them out. Figure the runners lead at 1B is right around 7 feet so he has to have a good lead and then get a good jump and run 83 feet to get to second base. Quick math says that if a runner is going 28 feet per second, 3 seconds is 84 feet.
Next is the time it takes for a Pitcher to deliver the ball to the Catcher, and then the Catcher's time it takes to receive the ball and then get it to second base (pop time). Quickest delivery to the plate by a pitcher from the stretch is a slide step - usually 1.2 seconds. The pop time is the time it takes from the ball reaching the Catcher's glove from the pitcher until he has received, set, and thrown thrown the ball and it has been received at second base. Davis has been measured as a 1.9 sec pop time. So if the pitcher slide steps, throws a FB, and the Catcher does his best pop time, it could take 3.1 sec for the ball to reach second base, too late for the elite baserunners.
And all of that is in a perfect situation. What are the variables? First, many pitchers in this era have never learned how to throw to the plate using a slide step, therefore their quickest delivery from the stretch could be 1.4 seconds or higher. Second, what pitch has been called? If anything other than a straight FB, add time. Third, where is the pitch located? That could add time also. Fourth, there is still a batter at the plate, and nobody wants to put a ball on a tee and give up 2 runs trying to prevent a SB. Pitchouts could work, but again, how much do pitcher's work on throwing a pitchout to stop a SB.
We just started into a new era of more value on SB's. Teams catch on and then instruct their pitchers and catchers how to be better able to "control" a running game.
Im pretty optimistic person, pro's-con's help me establish a floor-ceiling
Losing a second irreplacable player in as many years on one of if not the youngest
squads in the game is absolutely crippling,
76 W season, I thought curse of the POPS was jettison from this pirate ship
76 wins is their CEILING this year, thats because the guy that helped them to 76 is gonzo
This injury is the WORSE thing that could have happened, if you thought losing Cruz was bad?
Their FLOOR is 100 losses under Shelty,
They don't have ML staff add ML battery, Shelty will play everyone out of position
Cheaping out at 1B, a position thats taken for granted on this site, is going to bury them
just throw whoever over there, we need the bat, yeah right
Best to worst fielding 1B, Rowdy won't know Rowdy until Cruz missile are in the dirt
Shelty himself will answer alot of questions about himself from deciision making to
bizarre tanking like line-ups that no skipper in their right mind would pencil
2022 opening day in STL
1.Vogs
5. Newman
Thats what you want speed at top and power in the middle
How? why?
Few other 2022 line up tear jerkers
VanWeezer in clean up spot 4 days in a row
Yoshie .160 never moved from clean up until forced to mercifully DFA
Remember these guys, Tucker, Park, M perez, Heineman, Knapp, Cheng, Marsinick
Few slapdicks numbnuts had protecting Jack Suwinski's 7 spot last year, until optioned
Tanking or Can't fix Stupid?
How will you know you ask yourself?
-IF Connor Joe and .160 lifetime ave w/ RISP are penciled in a run producing spot 60-70 times
-If Rowdy can't hit backside of a barn with a bass fiddle for 2 months and never leaves clean up
-If Keller is all star again, Shelty Ok's him to throw on 3 days rest after 90 plus pitches on Sat
then skips him and 10 days before he pitches to open 2nd half. That one worked out real welll
-If he mistakes Rowdy for baby got Vogalback and Tellez is leading off and Bae is in the 5 hole
Steam the minors as all 4 affiliates will have better win pct than bucs, thats not saying much
Stream the 4-5 horseman in Altoona every night and hope they don't turn out
like the last 5 pony's- Burrows, Priester, Nicolas, Mlodzinski and Ortiz
If 100 losses force the pirates to move on from the UNFIT one
Should be easy, ITS NOT UNLIKE HIM
PEACE
Let's take it easy haha. Endy was worth .7 fWAR last year and was 35% below league average as a hitter. While Ali Sanchez can't replace his upside, I'm pretty confident he could put up similar production to Endy's 2023. Delay certainly can. Davis is just a big upside question mark. Losing Cruz last year and the -2 ish fWAR swing from him to the guys who replaced him was a bigger deal.
You do understand ER is a bat first switch hitting Catcher with even splits, along with freakish hit tools, and one kid who knows the Zone. He will be one that benefits the most
from auto zone.
What you witnessed in 2023 was an ANOMALY
Delay had a BABIP of .333 which helped reach his life ceiling with under 200 PA
Endy had .281 BABIP, which helped him to the floor.
Shelty had a hand in that floor as well with his you hit you sit mentality
Why for no reason would you sit a kid breaking out with his 1st HR,
bases loaded GW triple in consecutive days
Look at his game logs, that happened a handful of times
These kids were never sitting Peggy, Tree, Endy have to be like what did i do?
I thought I helped us win and I'm locked in ready to be me
Shelty will screw up a one car funeral, IT WOULDN'T BE UNLIKE HIM
The kid was here for almost half a season
Only started half of those games and ended with under 190 AB's
Now, this is your number one prospect and Minor league POY
He should have been up sooner and been treated like De la Cruz
EVERY GAME, EVERY AT BAT POSSIBLE, but that would be too easy.
Now go play winter ball to make up for the lost AB's
I cant believe i responded to a post that compared
Ali (5 games in BIGS )Sanchez
and
Jason (where did all the holes go) Delay
Before the Endy news, with Davis catching, signing Sanchez,
I thought they were selling high JD
I don't like Shelton either but I'm not so sold on Endy's bat or his toddleresque setup behind the plate just yet.
War can't put a number on heart, soul, knowledge and leadership
Only silver lining Endy hopefully won't have to play for this idiot again
Let's see if Endy ever puts up an above average season as an MLB catcher before we worry about it
57 G
ONLY 30 thefts attempted
The league, most playing for the PS in Sept
swipers just quit trying
Best SB attemp's never happen
Toddler started C full time only 20 months ago
He will be fine if he comes back 100%, if he doesn't
and is moved to 1B, shelty if still here will have a problem
keeping him out of his infamous line ups
What will he do now?
-Can't sit him cause of Keller-Delay thing
-No rest needed for 23 yr old 1B day game after night
-Double header, he can DH and rest someone who needs it
- 1B normally don't need rested before an off day
-Lastly FFS, there is no lefty/righty thing
Kids was the best switch hitter not in the bigs in 2022
Even Splits
He thought of every way possible to keep him under 200 PA
C, 1B and DH should get him 600;
Only if someone who knows WTF their doing and decides to let him out of his cage
150 G
600 PA
170 H
35 2B
5 3B
18 HR
100 RBI
70 BB 12%
120 K 20%
In this line up
2025
Cruz
Hayes
Endy
Reynolds
Johnson
Davis
Suwinski
Triolo
Bae
Eric Lauer seems like the type of guy that gets a spring training invite
I learned something today--for many years I thought payroll was tied to TV revenue since that was such a big part of the overall revenue stream. But Williams told Mackey that he doesn't "think payroll is a product of our TV deal".
Or maybe he's just acknowledging that Nutting really isn't interested in using revenue to increase to payroll beyond what it's been.
Been thinking through the endy news today and its hitting me harder and harder. What saves our offseason at this point? Pulling off some huge trade like Cease + Robert makes us maybe a wild card team if everything else breaks right? Probably would cost something in the neighborhood of termarr, bubba, harrington, and lonnie white, and I dont even know if thats enough. If not some big trade like that, feels like we need to go on a bigger spending spree than I can really fathom to make this all work. Pessimism is the feeling of today....
They need to sign a legitimate middle of the rotation starter at market rate and another bounce back arm. Without doing that, the window really won't open until 2026 and a lot will have to go right for that to happen.
Honestly they need to sign the middle of the rotation arm before they extend Keller.
If they want to push (really fold) in 2024, they might as well trade Keller and Bednar at max value and pray all the young guys can somehow succeed in an organization they puts them in a position to fail.
I'm predicting another 100 loss season until I see a real addition to the starting rotation.
TV deal obtained so we should have some income certainty, gonna need at least idk maybe 30M payroll add to even make a patchwork 75 win team
opening day rotation
Keller
M Gonzalez
Priester
Ortiz
Contreras
Kranick, Falter and Jackson in Indy if any of those dudes get hurt
Jones, Skenes and Harrington ripe by June
Brubaker and Burrows ready by August
Bubba, Ashcraft and Solo by the last week of the season
Kranick, Falter and Jackson are all on the bubble to be DFA, traded or maybe Jackson relief, he's one and done thru line up..
Kranick is getting a look, they have hung on to him not to
Falter needs to get better, they will never miss him, he's here because of Castro so who cares, i can't believe they gave us anything
Jones has something to prove and he will
Skenes is Skenes
Harrington hasn't battled AA, even if he dominates, there are 3-4 ahead of him
Brubaker i heard is ahead of schedule, May on high side june on the low
I'm writing Burrows off until 2025, i mean he needed to pitch well before the unfortunate, his surgury was a month behind bru"s, i don't see them taking any chances and theris no rush
Bubba and solo would have to go full tilt cy young minor league version and even then?
ASH is the WC, im sure they have a plan, slow couple innings here, couple there
he should be able to build up to 5-6 innings, 75-80 P
If anything this makes me feel worse lol
opening day bullpen?
Bednar
Holderman
Borucki
Hernandez
Mlodzinski
Moreta
Nicolas
Selby
lineup is looking stacked
DH %Cutch
LF Reynolds
SS Cruz
1B Tellez
C Tank
CF Jack
3B Hayes
Thinking like Sheltie--stick the guy with the 78 wRC+ in the 4-hole. Will Cruz ever see anything to hit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZBtNoDIb68&t=169s
Seriously, though, Tellez is a decent buy low addition just as long as he's one of several options going into the season and not someone we're counting on to be an everyday player
hes the starting firstbaseman for certain
What's funny at that link is that the '22 highlights last almost thirteen minutes while the '23 highlights last six minutes.
Who be in right?
Palacios / Joe platoon
and Jack will be in right when Bae plays center field
We are so screwed lol
maybe one more bargain starter will be added but we could be done
only question that remains is it Peguero or Nick for the last spot on the squad
oh and need to ink Cutch
Who are we going to DFA? Tellez?
Do you think is what they will do or is this all what you hope they do?
You’re a lot more trusting of Cherington than I am. I hope, and one would certainly believe with Endy’s injury, that Davis will become the primary catcher next year, but not so fast my friend. Cherington’s not noted for doing the things he says he plans to do. Both Delay and Sanchez are also on the 40 man roster and it’s certainly not out of the question that they could do most or all of the catching with Davis roaming around in right field again. Not likely you say? We have to trust BC on this you say? Not me, at least not until he actually starts doing things to improve the team.
Alright, for sake of discussion I'll make the same request I did with Oneil:
Put a number on it!
How many runs could Hank give up before throwing in the towel?
This incredibly dumb conversation around whether Cruz "can" or "can't" play shortstop isn't how baseball works. Everything comes down to quality, nothing is as reductive as can or can't. Nobody is stupid enough to claim a pitcher "can" start after a season in which he posts an ERA above 6. Same exact logic applies to defense.
So, how bad can Hank be, how many runs can he give up, and still be considered a big league catcher.
It could be quite high, again this is the organization putting a player in a position to fail. He was rushed to the majors hoping his bat would help, putting him in right field where he had very little experience. They never gave his defense a chance to develop at catcher or right field for that matter. Beyond experience, although he is athletic, he is stiff and appears to me to have very hard hands (why I think 1st base would really be a disaster).
Even with his faults, his work ethic, character, hitting ability and enthusiasm/leadership are some qualities I wouldn't want to set a limit on him eventually figuring out how to make it work. The majors isn't the microscope to figure it out under though.
Personally I would have tried to develop him as a right fielder but I feel the pirates will start him at catcher putting him right back in a position to fail because they can't see the forest because the trees are in the way.
To answer your question probably 25 in 1000 innings, but if he is hitting it could be a lot more with this organization.
Alvarez, Sabol
100 G - 46 G
874 Inn - 393 Inn
13 E - 5 E
8 PB - 6 PB
99 SB - 37 SB
15 CS - 7 CS
13% - 16%
SB per game
Error every 7 G
PB every 12 G
Doumit, Diaz and Davis
How bad can it be?
Hank's glove will play p/t as C, long as his body lets it
I don't think he will be as bad as I posted (25 in 1000), I think that would be the point they make a change unless he is raking then it could be more. I didn't really clarify it in my post. I just wish they would be more thorough in the development of these young guys instead of throwing them in the deep end.
I'm also a little worried about his health. He is a full go type of guy, and injuries have certainly been in play since being drafted.
I don't think so either, but understand I could not have said that this time last year
Reason being, I watched the AFL form start to finish and Hank simply was outplayed by Blake Sabol, i mean it was bad. In fact Hank didn't finish, Sabol was behind the dish for the playoffs which he helped Surprise win it all
However, I buy the MILB package and one thing that interesed me was Henry starting in Altoona and playing everyday. So i watched him everyday. i'm going into detail so i will do this, on a scale of 1-10
4 in the AFL
7 in Altoona
He was like a different C,
I was more shocked than impressed as i couldn't believe someone could close the gap on not sucking, he really came along way, Now I'm saying he's Johnny Bench but he was better than I remember Sabol out West
last March I spent a week at ST, Pirate city, etc
This will upset you so sit down
At pirate city two different occaisions
HANK WAS IN RF shagging balls, throwing to bases
and
Two days later grapefruit game at LeCom got rained out so they played
Upper VS Lower Minors intersquad game
HANK WAS IN RIGHT FIELD, CANNON ON FULL DISPLAY
IDC what anyone says, Hank can play RF, its the BRASS that don't know WTF their doing
Have a great evening
I agree, he can play right field. I just don't trust the organization to properly develop anyone. I'm glad he went to training facilities outside the organization.
Sheesh, that's literally Doumit territory!
You never, ever wanna go full Doumit. Goodness, they're making a mockery of the game if they allow the poor kid to struggle that much.
Thanks buddy, great reply.
I think he could develop into a slightly better than average right fielder, I never thought Doumit could do that.
In my opinion, his hard hands will ultimately limit him to the corner outfield spots, which in Pittsburgh leaves right field as his final field position or he becomes a long-term DH emergency catcher.
Sorry for being long winded but I really think this organization is going to screw up another development year for him.
My brother, there's no such thing as long winded when talking baseball. Always appreciate your posts. ;)
For comparison, Elias Diaz is easily the worst catcher in baseball right now. He gives up about 17 runs for every 1000 innings caught. Nobody else comes close.
A typical "bad" catcher gives up around 8 runs per 1000 innings.
Could Pedro Alvarez play 3B? 1B?
I would say yes to 3B up until 2014, and no to 1B. Really "no" to any position work after 2013, wheels really fell off that next season.
It was interesting that, back in the prospect days, it was often said that Pedro would have to move off third. And he did. Just in a way no one would anticipate.
The yips really killed Pedro's ability to play third base.
F'd him up big time.
Never a fan of pedro, he was dumpsterfireish in the mind
I miss grabbing a thursday afternoon box behind 1st base
Sit there and wait for he incoming scuds
Eat'n park had thurs afternoon give away, If pedro went yard everyone in the park with ticket got a free breakfast
I think he put them out of business
Personally I am excited to see what he can do. No matter what the opinions of the team and their progress, Hank's success is high on the list of key factors. Obviously his bat is his carrying tool, but if he can be a competent catcher that opens many possibilities. On a related note, there has been mention of his injury last year both impacting his hitting (timing seems to align with his struggle, but it could also have been MLB pitching adjusting) but also preventing them from letting him catch. Anybody recall any official comments / timelines? I'm not trying to make excuses, but it can also potentially add to my optimism (or fear he is always getting HBP and hurt).
silver lining to this is clarity for catching in 2023 and no chance of drama
What odds are you giving on that?
pretty high
Tank and Oneil are going to ride high this year
plus every other year Reynolds has a good season
and you never know if Hayes´s bat is actually waking up for realz
If there's one thing I'm least worried about, it's Tank's bat. I do think it's going to come around. What worries me is that I was already concerned about the ripple effect of an injury, particularly with catcher, and it's already happened. We lose Tank for any significant time, and they're screwed. Delay is fine, defensively, but his offense was heavily weighted by March/April. You go May through the end of the season, and he had a wRC+ of 51.
I still can't wrap my head around how much they emphasized "acquire and develop depth", yet here we are looking at a team that's lost two main players (not even stars at that) and the cupboard is empty. They need to figure out the development to the majors part real quick, or it's going to be a LOOOOOOONG season.
I'll comment this here, but everybody keeps mentioned Delay. I must be on an island, but Sanchez (strength is defense) was signed to a major league contract. Unless they carry three catchers (I personally hope they don't), then shouldn't we really be saying Sanchez and Hank as our catchers to start the year? Delay has options and as you stated really fell off after an unexpected hot start. Doesn't he really profile as a MLB/AAA depth catcher?
I mention Delay because my guess would be Sanchez was signed due to the expectations Tank will handle the bulk catching duties, and Sanchez there as a body. There's also the caveat as he's likely an easy DFA candidate if a better option comes along. Also I think I had just read someone else's comment and tied it into mine cause it was on my mind lol but, if say Tank gets hurt, I'm not sure it'd be Sanchez as first man up, cause as you say he's just purely glove. But it very well may be, just as with Hedges last year.
I'm sorry but im calling a 30 second time out on behalf of Ali Sanchez
26 year old is getting short changed on the offense side
SouthernBuc was spot on, w/ (strength is defense)
but you can't turn his scouting tid bit into
"as you say he's just purly glove"
If i didn't follow Sanchez i would be the someone who read your post and now thinks he couldn't hit water if he fell from a boat, only thing worse is the comparing to hedgless
Please look at his AAA stats post covid
We signed him last year when he was DFA, we then exposed him when signing Carlos last year, Arizona caught us trying to sneak him thru
Arizona arguably has best C in the game and another behind him
Ali was blocked from the majors, they did him a favor
I'm sure BC knew he was going to elect free agency and was waiting
with open arms
This guy can help out Henry, he by no means is a DFA candidate
In fact he might be the most experienced active Catcher in the upper minors
Not many sure things in any sport especially baseball, Sanchez may never hit
ML pitching and i might be saying "he's just purely glove
They need him bad, Delay is OK in an emergency but he quite honestly was a terrible minor league prospect especially Altoona
He hit in Indy for a week or two and when called up he kept hitting thru April
Should have been playing over hedgless.
I truly believe that was a 6 week thing
Is he better than Hedges? Likely. But he's had below average offensive output across virtually his entire MiLB career. Aside from a 104 wRC+ with Detroit Triple-A.
Now, his best season, a 108 wRC+ with Arizona (which is above average, but not by much), came not only in the PCL which is hitter friendly, but Reno that is probably one of the, if not THE most hitter friendly park in all of minor leagues. He "shattered" his previous season high HRs by playing in Reno. Reno made Wyatt Mathisen look like a big league slugger.
Below average? his entire career?
2021- AAA Memphis (IL)
.275/.322/.363/.685
2022- AAA Memphis (IL) - .255/.333/.409/.742
2022- AAA Toledo (IL) - .268/.369/.373/.742
2023- All you posted was his power numbers stats were Reno and PCL inflated last year and reason for shattering of career HR high
But you ghosted why i called you out and why the Pirates inked him
He shattered/slashed career K-RATE by 5% from 20% to 15%
and
increased BB from 10% to 15%
His glove and those numbers play in the BIGS
Hr's are gravy if and when they come
Sabol had 13 last year, our C had 5 combined
Makes sense.. and I truly put the comment here but meant it for the overall depth chart discussion. Honestly while Sanchez is glove first, other than his hot start that is really what Delay is also. Obviously if Hank goes down things are even worse.
I'm sure there will be another Triple-A depth signing or two. I can't them rolling into 2024 with the Indy depth as Delay/Sanchez (remember, it's a split contract, so it's not even assured Sanchez is on MLB roster), Koch, and Bins.
Just read that split contract yesterday somewhere......maybe Mackey.
It wasn't initially reported that way. Can you enlighten us on how it works?
You know. At about the point that you're saying, "Man! The Bucs have Endy and Delay and Davis... Catching settled."
Then the Universe gets involved.
Jesus.
Still. I have always liked Jason Delay and have often posited the opinion that he's a keeper.
why is it that Endy cannot DH if Ohtani can DH after his tommy john???
I think he could since harper did as well, just will be at least 6 months from now
Nobody has said when Ohtani will be hitting again. He does have a 2 month head start in rehab. He may not see the field til late season
He'll never have the defensive potential that Endy has but then many don't. But he's capable of being a above average receiver with very strong offense so it could work out. I don't see how you can't keep Delay here to help Henry learn a few things with the pitching staff plus he has shown he's more then capable as a backup catcher can be.
On what grounds are you judging "capable"?
Hank's hands and my house are made of the same material.
We first have to believe that BC will actually put him behind the dish before any of this matters. If he's willing to accept Rowdy Tellez as a solution at first base he's "capable" of bringing Austin Hedges back to catch, lol.
If they'd just go with the robo zone, it wouldn't matter much. He has a 98th percentile arm, and that'll still matter.
Endy doesn’t have a strong arm, he has a quick release and is accurate enough. Davis, according to reports doesn’t have a favorable pop up times.
Your killing me with this one
Endy
has a strong arm
top 1/3 pop up time
a sick release
nails his targets
became a full time C just 18 months ago
Endy won the SAL defensive Catcher of the year award IN MID SEASON shortly after
Altoona promotion
Over 50 G
Only 30 thieves attempted to steal, the league literally quit running on him
21 SB
9 CS
You might be thinking of Cervelli
His velocity on his throw are in the mid to high 80’s. I don’t consider that strong, his anticipation, pop up and release are top of the charts.
1. yainer diaz 88.5
8. jt Real 86.6
10. wilson c 86.2
14. adley R 85.3
22. endy 84.6.
27. bo nailor 84
30. sabol 83.5
33. E diaz 83.4
40. stallings 82.2
53. hedgless 80.4
62. heiny 79.3
67. delay 78.4
81 barnes 75.4
age
Alverez-21
Sodastrom-21
Endy-23
He's so stiff that I doubt the arm matters.
Just a tenth of a second slower out of the crouch negates any time to second saved from a slightly faster velo.
MLB umpires seem to be trying to hasten the conversion to Robo Ump as soon as possible.
I was against it for years, but with all the views we as fans(and players immediately in the dugout) have now of each pitch, I am all in. And by all in I mean not the challenge rule where the player has to decide, let's get the balls / strikes right. Batters and pitchers will adjust just like I expect stolen bases to be down a hair this year as teams react to last years rules.
I know Davis will work his tail off to do his best. Poor guy is just being thrown into another positions to fail by this organization. Hope he rises above and the fan base will cut him some slack both offensively and defensively.
I just hope that there is a fanbase remaining after Cherington is done overseeing his 5th consecutive annual disaster,
There's dozens of us, dozens!
I wonder how Reynolds, Keller and the other players feel with the off-season. Other teams trying to get better while the pirates try to nickel and dime their way to another 100 loss season.
Injuries aside, they still needed 2 starters for the rotation and a first basemen at minimum. They are on their way to downgrading their absolute needs, I only consider 1st with Tellez as filling a need so far. I'm not optimistic about the needs of the rotation or upgrades at wants, like outfield or middle infield.
Now with the injuries they have replaced projected starter Endy with Sanchez and starting pitcher Oviedo with Marco. Two downgrades but understandable.
Another 100 loss season? They didn’t even lose 90 last year. I am guessing you were predicting 100 losses all the way until September.
What position other than potentially SS have they upgraded instead of taking a step back?
any other extension candidates cant be so happy, Brey at least has 100M reasons to go with it
Still think they used him, he took a team friendly deal thinking they were going to try to get better. Instead they're punting on 3rd down. Hope they prove me wrong but I seriously doubt it.
No i totally agree, also reports of BC getting assurances that he would be able to open the wallet when he signed on were either hugely exaggerated or just fake
Look at the contract the Giants gave that South Korean kid, Lee: 6 year at about 19 million per year; almost double what I expected him to get.
Me too, the Giants not landing the guys they targeted the last few years have them overpaying. That contract might work out but is probably going to hurt. Giving him an opt out after 4 years doesn't give them much of a chance for a win.