Cabrera is a talented 25 year old pitcher who has some serious Walk issues that have existed since he entered MLB 3 years ago. 26 IP, 19 BB/28 K in 2021; 72 IP, 33 BB/75 K in 2022; and last year in 99 IP, 66 BB/118 K. Going into his age 26 season, his ERA's are not impressive, and his FIP's are even worse.
This is not a move I would want the Pirates to attempt, and especially not for Hold-man and Peguero who had 7 HR last year in 198 AB. The Pirates have struggled trying to find a strong MI on both sides of the ball, and now that we have that possibility, we want to use Peguero in a trade? I think he has that 20-20 upside, along with the same from Cruz. With the uncertainty of Oneil Cruz now and in the future (can we sign him to an extension?), I see Peguero as untradeable. Could we possibly see a MI of Peguero/TJ in a year or two?
This is an interesting thought. I was thinking maybe the brewers were going for it this year since the hoskins deal, but if they are doing the buying/selling thing then adames could certainly be in play. Open up a spot for ortiz and probably would target a young starter. Dont know if any of miami's starters would match up with adames. Could honestly be adames plus one of their top infield prospects
For one year it's a decent trade, pick 34 in the 2024 draft is quite valuable. Still think the brewers could have got more, maybe they are higher on Ortiz.
Agreed, getting burns out of the division and none of the top names is a plus for us. DL hall is probably hader 2.0 imo and ortiz is glove first with less bat I believe? Not terribly scary
I think you could try developing Jac as a hitter through AA and if the red flags aren't satiated by then a quick conversion to the pen would leave him a viable asset and open the potential for him to matriculate to the rotation.
Jac is one you could try, but with red flags on the mound and at the plate focusing on one or the other is probably best.
But high 90's fastballs and 500 feet homeruns are something to dream on.
At pick 9 I'd definitely take the gamble if he was available. I'd try him pretty much like you stated. See if he's going to hit and pitching as a fall back. If they would let him play both ways, I'd limit him to 2 innings a week opening on Sundays, off Monday, DH on Tuesday, 1st base Wednesday thru Friday, DH on Saturday lol.
I'll stick with my opinion that the two way player is still mostly a unicorn. Outside of Ohtani (and worst case he may now be a one way player) and Lorenzen there really hasn't been much success. I do think Lorenzen would have a better proof point if he was in the AL and could have been the DH some (and was he a good enough hitter to take that spot?). Regarding the draft, IMO you draft looking at where you think the one side of the ball will best translate. Anybody pulling off real two way would be gravy. I'd love to see Caglianone become a full time Fri/Sat starter and excel and also crush the ball (with fewer K's) as it would be a good test to see if could make it on both sides. I just think it so hard to get both sides developed and ready for MLB on the same or close timeline.
I'm not sure Ohtani could have been a two-way player, if it weren't for the DH. I remember when he signed with the Angels to play along Trout and Pujols, everyone said watch out for the Angels. I know the Angels pitching stunk and that it most of the reason they were never in the play-offs, but he limited what the team could do by taking up that DH spot every day. When I think of the all-time greats, most have 5 tool players. Ohtani will be a tremendous full time DH that will have averaged pitching 12 games a year after his first 7 years.
You really think he can’t play in the OF if he’s not gonna pitch again? Come on. It’s not that he can’t play out there. It’s that it reduces the risk for injury with him playing both ways.
I'm not questioning his athleticism, but questioning if his value to the team is as great as it appears because he is a two-way player.
With his Tommy John surgery (from pitching), I don't think he will play the outfield again this year. That will make less than 17 innings in a 7 year period. I think if he stuck to hitting only, his value to the team would probably be close to what it currently is (or possibly better) because I'm certain he would be a good outfielder.
According to Nutting (from a week ago, which I had missed until going to pirates.com today to see the Chapman video):
"I think Ben’s been fantastic. Extremely pleased with the work he’s done on the baseball side..."
Fantastic! _Extremely_ pleased! This is borderline "best management team in baseball" but the difference is that the "best management team" comment came after a trip to the playoffs that followed 20 years of losing. Ben must be doing a better job with the bottom line.
He went on to say "But maybe most importantly, he’s surrounded himself with incredibly good and deep talent." Not just good and deep talent, but incredibly so! Where's the evidence?
When Nutting says things like this without evidence, I start feeling pretty hopeless that we'll see a championship under his watch. Just no accountability. Not to mention how tone deaf this comes off as to fans who care more about winning than a good fireworks show or having better food choices.
I could live with "Ben's on the right track, we think he's building something great, but there is clearly work to be done..." But it's like he already has everything he wants. He must be the least competitive owner in professional sports.
I will translate Nuttings' comments into what he really meant. "I spoke with Ben recently, and he used a lot of buzzwords to describe the future of the organization. He spoke about things like 'industry-standard' and the 'capacity of our quantitative analysis.' I was especially impressed by his ability to use the word 'leverage' as a verb in every imaginable context. Based upon his ability to string together literally hundreds of buzz-words and smart-sounding cliches, I am convinced that he is doing a bangup job as the GM of the Pirates. Soon we will be able to leverage the profound talent in the front office, using state-of-the-art techniques to produce high-quality quantitative analysis, into what, we believe, will become the 'industry-standard.' With the diversity of talent that Ben has acquired we will be able to achieve equity-of-outcome with the highest performing franchises within the next 3-4 decades.
Ya, I think Rainer gets drafted a Pitcher.
Gavin Guidry(LSU) and Ethan Bates(Louisiana Tech) are a couple other two-ways that are interesting.
Or Payton Tolle. He’ll be at TCU this year and the Big 12 is a good jump up in competition from Wichita State.
Honestly that's a huge get for the orioles at that price. My AL east favorite, officially
So trying to win is an actual thing? Who could’ve known . . . .
Ben should go for Cabrera now while the stove is hot. Holderman, Peguero and one of Ortiz, Ro or Priester for Cabrera, Weathers and Miami's comp pick.
Cabrera is a talented 25 year old pitcher who has some serious Walk issues that have existed since he entered MLB 3 years ago. 26 IP, 19 BB/28 K in 2021; 72 IP, 33 BB/75 K in 2022; and last year in 99 IP, 66 BB/118 K. Going into his age 26 season, his ERA's are not impressive, and his FIP's are even worse.
This is not a move I would want the Pirates to attempt, and especially not for Hold-man and Peguero who had 7 HR last year in 198 AB. The Pirates have struggled trying to find a strong MI on both sides of the ball, and now that we have that possibility, we want to use Peguero in a trade? I think he has that 20-20 upside, along with the same from Cruz. With the uncertainty of Oneil Cruz now and in the future (can we sign him to an extension?), I see Peguero as untradeable. Could we possibly see a MI of Peguero/TJ in a year or two?
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It is. I wonder if Adames goes next.
This is an interesting thought. I was thinking maybe the brewers were going for it this year since the hoskins deal, but if they are doing the buying/selling thing then adames could certainly be in play. Open up a spot for ortiz and probably would target a young starter. Dont know if any of miami's starters would match up with adames. Could honestly be adames plus one of their top infield prospects
I'm thinking the Brewers would add on with a couple of their blocked prospects.
I was thinking that on my post, I can see Miami going after him.
Probably trade him for Alderman...
Yeah or aim for starting pitching by throwing in a couple other prospects.
orioles about to go on a spending spree
Looks like they got Corbin Burnes. Glad they only got Hall and Ortiz, Mayo or Basallo would have made me a little sick lol.
And pick number 34 in the 2024 draft.
No Holliday, Cowser or Kjerstad mentioned yet either.
Yep, I didn't include them because I think they're going to all be in Baltimore at some point this year if not opening there.
I will be shocked if that is all the Brewers get for Burnes.
For one year it's a decent trade, pick 34 in the 2024 draft is quite valuable. Still think the brewers could have got more, maybe they are higher on Ortiz.
Agreed, getting burns out of the division and none of the top names is a plus for us. DL hall is probably hader 2.0 imo and ortiz is glove first with less bat I believe? Not terribly scary
Yep, don't have to worry about the draft pick for awhile either.
Their farm system is fairly flush with infield prospects right now, wonder if they go for some pitching to backfill for burnes
That's what I'm thinking and Miami looks like a good match for them.
Ugh. Why does it feel like almost every other org is better at this than we are. Oh wait
According to Robert Murray, the Pirates "have interest" in Gary Sanchez. They must have had an intern call the agent's secretary.
Probably looked up a janitor's browser history and saw his baseball reference page was open
The universal DH has all but killed the potential for two-way players.
If you have a pitcher also serving as your DH, and he's not named Ohtani, it means you don't care about the DH.
As far as I can see, it hasn't done much for one-way players, either.
I think you could try developing Jac as a hitter through AA and if the red flags aren't satiated by then a quick conversion to the pen would leave him a viable asset and open the potential for him to matriculate to the rotation.
Same with the prep kids.
Jac is one you could try, but with red flags on the mound and at the plate focusing on one or the other is probably best.
But high 90's fastballs and 500 feet homeruns are something to dream on.
At pick 9 I'd definitely take the gamble if he was available. I'd try him pretty much like you stated. See if he's going to hit and pitching as a fall back. If they would let him play both ways, I'd limit him to 2 innings a week opening on Sundays, off Monday, DH on Tuesday, 1st base Wednesday thru Friday, DH on Saturday lol.
I think I just over thought that...
you're my dude!
I'll stick with my opinion that the two way player is still mostly a unicorn. Outside of Ohtani (and worst case he may now be a one way player) and Lorenzen there really hasn't been much success. I do think Lorenzen would have a better proof point if he was in the AL and could have been the DH some (and was he a good enough hitter to take that spot?). Regarding the draft, IMO you draft looking at where you think the one side of the ball will best translate. Anybody pulling off real two way would be gravy. I'd love to see Caglianone become a full time Fri/Sat starter and excel and also crush the ball (with fewer K's) as it would be a good test to see if could make it on both sides. I just think it so hard to get both sides developed and ready for MLB on the same or close timeline.
I'm not sure Ohtani could have been a two-way player, if it weren't for the DH. I remember when he signed with the Angels to play along Trout and Pujols, everyone said watch out for the Angels. I know the Angels pitching stunk and that it most of the reason they were never in the play-offs, but he limited what the team could do by taking up that DH spot every day. When I think of the all-time greats, most have 5 tool players. Ohtani will be a tremendous full time DH that will have averaged pitching 12 games a year after his first 7 years.
You really think he can’t play in the OF if he’s not gonna pitch again? Come on. It’s not that he can’t play out there. It’s that it reduces the risk for injury with him playing both ways.
I'm not questioning his athleticism, but questioning if his value to the team is as great as it appears because he is a two-way player.
With his Tommy John surgery (from pitching), I don't think he will play the outfield again this year. That will make less than 17 innings in a 7 year period. I think if he stuck to hitting only, his value to the team would probably be close to what it currently is (or possibly better) because I'm certain he would be a good outfielder.
anybody else notice that Chapman has a resemblance to Dave Parker?
racis
Indeed he does.
I currently have jac ranked 2nd on my big board with sole basis of ranking being the swag factor, of course he is a distant 2nd to tommy tanks
Two-way players are a great opportunity for the Pirates’ development staff. It’s a chance to fail twice.
According to Nutting (from a week ago, which I had missed until going to pirates.com today to see the Chapman video):
"I think Ben’s been fantastic. Extremely pleased with the work he’s done on the baseball side..."
Fantastic! _Extremely_ pleased! This is borderline "best management team in baseball" but the difference is that the "best management team" comment came after a trip to the playoffs that followed 20 years of losing. Ben must be doing a better job with the bottom line.
All Nuttin does with this babbling is confirm for the fans that he’s totally OK with massive on-field failure.
He went on to say "But maybe most importantly, he’s surrounded himself with incredibly good and deep talent." Not just good and deep talent, but incredibly so! Where's the evidence?
When Nutting says things like this without evidence, I start feeling pretty hopeless that we'll see a championship under his watch. Just no accountability. Not to mention how tone deaf this comes off as to fans who care more about winning than a good fireworks show or having better food choices.
I could live with "Ben's on the right track, we think he's building something great, but there is clearly work to be done..." But it's like he already has everything he wants. He must be the least competitive owner in professional sports.
Bob probably drinks the kool-aid or more likely just likes the bottom line.
I will translate Nuttings' comments into what he really meant. "I spoke with Ben recently, and he used a lot of buzzwords to describe the future of the organization. He spoke about things like 'industry-standard' and the 'capacity of our quantitative analysis.' I was especially impressed by his ability to use the word 'leverage' as a verb in every imaginable context. Based upon his ability to string together literally hundreds of buzz-words and smart-sounding cliches, I am convinced that he is doing a bangup job as the GM of the Pirates. Soon we will be able to leverage the profound talent in the front office, using state-of-the-art techniques to produce high-quality quantitative analysis, into what, we believe, will become the 'industry-standard.' With the diversity of talent that Ben has acquired we will be able to achieve equity-of-outcome with the highest performing franchises within the next 3-4 decades.
Bob adds at the end, "You know, Ben graduated from Andover!"
I always do love me a good 2 for 1 special