I think I’d rather Winker and grichuk anyways. That produces a 2-3 WAR RF who hits 20-25 bombs for probably under $15M. I feel like that would be profar or Ward but in two players. Lesser defense of course.
Houston's projected starting outfield is Taylor Trammel, Jake Meyers and Chas McCormick. Their need to add outfield might be greater than our need to add.
Have to say - it will probably come down to who's healthy (with Delay as depth). Bart was injured a couple times, Endy's arm is a question and Hank had concussion issues. Between health and hitting above the Mendoza line, it will sort itself out.
One of those "really?" stats for me is that Bart and Grandal combined for nearly 3 WAR in 2024 and the 4th, 4th!, best offense in the league at the catcher position.
As much as I like the depth heading into 2025, this may actually be tough to match.
I figure he was overtaxed as the starter and did better after Bart took over. Considering that he now has the worst pop time in MLB, he’s not aging well.
For a team with 4 catchers on the 40 man, it sure seems to be lacking on depth defensively at the position. Delay checks off most areas but the running game. Endy still has the injury issue, hopefully he can show he's back early in spring training. Davis and Bart with their blocking and receiving. At least 3 of the 4 have potential offensively but need to start proving it at the mlb level (Bart is close to proving he's legit at least against lefties).
The only way I see Endy not starting in Indy is if he is splitting time equally or is the primary catcher with the pirates. Davis needs to see mlb pitching but he may actually benefit from a larger work load defensively in Indy (the organization colossally mismanaged his development). Delay is what he is, a good defense backup, pretty much the only real depth option. Bart hopefully can continue his breakout and gradually improve defensively, he should hold down the short side of a platoon at worst.
I tend to agree with your assessment. Some additional rambling per my usual:
1) I cringe every time Endy or Hank are listed as possible starters elsewhere. If they hit, then that bridge can be crossed and it becomes a real good problem. It is a bonus that Endy is very athletic and if the bench is depleted in some game, he can run out to a lot of positions and hold his own but not as a planned platoon starter.
2) Your stance on Delay is perfect. I know people like him, but he is realistically IMO a AAA catcher or a backup in MLB if your starter is peak Jason Kendall.
3) If Bart catches 90 games and DHs 30 or so, that leaves plenty of playing time for whoever is the backup to prove they belong in MLB. This of course is dependent on Bart hitting ateast 90% the level he did last year. No spring training performance should change that assumption.
4) To me the easy 'out of spring training' decision is Hank in MLB and Endy in AAA. That may not seem fair but Hank IMO really can't prove anything in AAA. He needs to prove he is not a AAAA hitter and you do that in MLB hopefully starting 2-3 times a week. Endy missed an entire year +. Of the two I think he benefits the most playing basically everyday in AAA (catching and DH) and actually could be slightly harmed playing only 2-3 times a week as he needs reps. To me this allows for the least risk (it is the BACKUP Catcher we are talking about not everyday) as well as allowing for some continued development.
I would love for Endy to be our version of Craig Biggio. Don't expect HOF but catch if he can then worry about another position if the time comes.
I'm not sure I have much faith in Hank. Seems he works hard and is a good dude but this is his make or break year for me. I just tell myself Bubba was our first overall pick that year and Hank went in his spot. It's called a coping mechanism.
Hope you are some collards and hoppin John's in New years.
I love this group of catchers honestly. So much flexibility in this group.
My eyes told me that Bart turned a corner as many catchers do later than other positions. He is the clear starter to begin.
I was surprised that Endy didn't play winter ball to get some timing back after being out all of 2024; however it may be that the club wants to keep a closer eye on his health as he begins to play. We'll see if that slows him in the spring and pushes him back to AAA. If not he is one player I would LOVE to get to see him show off his versatility again. He played 1st, 2nd, and OF as a prospect - and not just a little he is very athletic. He stretches your bench.
You can only allow that kind of flexibility though because you have Henry Davis as a 3rd catcher available. Normally carrying 3 catchers makes no sense as you lose flexibility, but Henry makes a perfect 1st base platoon partner with Spencer Horwitz. He can also play RF which is currently still open, along with catcher.
Bart can still play DH while either of these guys wears the tools.
It's really a positive situation I believe and allows all 3 to be on the roster and productive - not just sitting the bench like Jason Delay. Not many teams have the advantage this could provide and when you're a team like the Buc's anything that could be an advantage, needs to be if you actually want to be competitive.
It’s more likely all three flame out then they’re all productive part timers or regulars. But because of the grind of catching and how it’s hard to count on one guy year to year, I like that they have three guys who could break out if it goes just right for them.
See my later post.. I just don't see the logic in three catchers when only one has hit in MLB so far. Hank at 1B? Did you see his athleticism in the outfield? IF he proves he can hit then by all means let's look at options. But carrying a DH (Cutch), a starting catcher (Bart) and 2 guys who haven't proved they can hit in MLB and are primarily catchers just doesn't seem logical to me. Let Endy and Hank show they can hit before we start counting on them further.
Dang I sounded negative... I like your optimism Brian, I just think there are better options for seeing what we have in Endy and Hank while also having players whose primary positions are actually IF, IB or OF and who may actually be more ready to prove they can hit in MLB (Yorke?).
I get your point and I am not suggesting they start at those positions they are platoon. Yes normally I am not a platoon fan, however this is an unusual group of talent at a position not normally seen.
I also want Yorke to have majority of RF reps. Same with Horwitz at 1b.
As bench players with ability to cover more than the catcher position is really the point.
Apparently, Hou and LAA have some interest in Verdugo. That’ll eliminate the Pirates, which in this case is fine.
I think I’d rather Winker and grichuk anyways. That produces a 2-3 WAR RF who hits 20-25 bombs for probably under $15M. I feel like that would be profar or Ward but in two players. Lesser defense of course.
Winker over Verdugo is a no-brainer.
I think he’d be cheaper too. I hope someone outbids them for Verdugo and they go that route if not going in on a Taylor ward or profar.
Houston's projected starting outfield is Taylor Trammel, Jake Meyers and Chas McCormick. Their need to add outfield might be greater than our need to add.
Have to say - it will probably come down to who's healthy (with Delay as depth). Bart was injured a couple times, Endy's arm is a question and Hank had concussion issues. Between health and hitting above the Mendoza line, it will sort itself out.
One of those "really?" stats for me is that Bart and Grandal combined for nearly 3 WAR in 2024 and the 4th, 4th!, best offense in the league at the catcher position.
As much as I like the depth heading into 2025, this may actually be tough to match.
Don’t tell Wilbur…
I guess if you subtract Davis. As a team, the Pirates were 19th in fWAR at C and 14th in wRC+.
This was mostly Bart. Among Cs with 200+ PAs, he was 4th in wRC+. Grandal was 23rd.
Oh I know. And virtually all of Grandal’s production came in the last six weeks when the team had already gone into the ditch and nothing mattered.
Sitting in the stands watching Grandal run to first made my knees hurt.
I figure he was overtaxed as the starter and did better after Bart took over. Considering that he now has the worst pop time in MLB, he’s not aging well.
These are always super well put together, Murph.
For a team with 4 catchers on the 40 man, it sure seems to be lacking on depth defensively at the position. Delay checks off most areas but the running game. Endy still has the injury issue, hopefully he can show he's back early in spring training. Davis and Bart with their blocking and receiving. At least 3 of the 4 have potential offensively but need to start proving it at the mlb level (Bart is close to proving he's legit at least against lefties).
The only way I see Endy not starting in Indy is if he is splitting time equally or is the primary catcher with the pirates. Davis needs to see mlb pitching but he may actually benefit from a larger work load defensively in Indy (the organization colossally mismanaged his development). Delay is what he is, a good defense backup, pretty much the only real depth option. Bart hopefully can continue his breakout and gradually improve defensively, he should hold down the short side of a platoon at worst.
I tend to agree with your assessment. Some additional rambling per my usual:
1) I cringe every time Endy or Hank are listed as possible starters elsewhere. If they hit, then that bridge can be crossed and it becomes a real good problem. It is a bonus that Endy is very athletic and if the bench is depleted in some game, he can run out to a lot of positions and hold his own but not as a planned platoon starter.
2) Your stance on Delay is perfect. I know people like him, but he is realistically IMO a AAA catcher or a backup in MLB if your starter is peak Jason Kendall.
3) If Bart catches 90 games and DHs 30 or so, that leaves plenty of playing time for whoever is the backup to prove they belong in MLB. This of course is dependent on Bart hitting ateast 90% the level he did last year. No spring training performance should change that assumption.
4) To me the easy 'out of spring training' decision is Hank in MLB and Endy in AAA. That may not seem fair but Hank IMO really can't prove anything in AAA. He needs to prove he is not a AAAA hitter and you do that in MLB hopefully starting 2-3 times a week. Endy missed an entire year +. Of the two I think he benefits the most playing basically everyday in AAA (catching and DH) and actually could be slightly harmed playing only 2-3 times a week as he needs reps. To me this allows for the least risk (it is the BACKUP Catcher we are talking about not everyday) as well as allowing for some continued development.
Hire this man!
hell yeah brother.
Good post. Forward this to Ben.
I would love for Endy to be our version of Craig Biggio. Don't expect HOF but catch if he can then worry about another position if the time comes.
I'm not sure I have much faith in Hank. Seems he works hard and is a good dude but this is his make or break year for me. I just tell myself Bubba was our first overall pick that year and Hank went in his spot. It's called a coping mechanism.
Hope you are some collards and hoppin John's in New years.
Sorry, I can only like this post once! Would preferred to liked ten more times!
I love this group of catchers honestly. So much flexibility in this group.
My eyes told me that Bart turned a corner as many catchers do later than other positions. He is the clear starter to begin.
I was surprised that Endy didn't play winter ball to get some timing back after being out all of 2024; however it may be that the club wants to keep a closer eye on his health as he begins to play. We'll see if that slows him in the spring and pushes him back to AAA. If not he is one player I would LOVE to get to see him show off his versatility again. He played 1st, 2nd, and OF as a prospect - and not just a little he is very athletic. He stretches your bench.
You can only allow that kind of flexibility though because you have Henry Davis as a 3rd catcher available. Normally carrying 3 catchers makes no sense as you lose flexibility, but Henry makes a perfect 1st base platoon partner with Spencer Horwitz. He can also play RF which is currently still open, along with catcher.
Bart can still play DH while either of these guys wears the tools.
It's really a positive situation I believe and allows all 3 to be on the roster and productive - not just sitting the bench like Jason Delay. Not many teams have the advantage this could provide and when you're a team like the Buc's anything that could be an advantage, needs to be if you actually want to be competitive.
It’s more likely all three flame out then they’re all productive part timers or regulars. But because of the grind of catching and how it’s hard to count on one guy year to year, I like that they have three guys who could break out if it goes just right for them.
nice post
See my later post.. I just don't see the logic in three catchers when only one has hit in MLB so far. Hank at 1B? Did you see his athleticism in the outfield? IF he proves he can hit then by all means let's look at options. But carrying a DH (Cutch), a starting catcher (Bart) and 2 guys who haven't proved they can hit in MLB and are primarily catchers just doesn't seem logical to me. Let Endy and Hank show they can hit before we start counting on them further.
Also nice post.
Dang I sounded negative... I like your optimism Brian, I just think there are better options for seeing what we have in Endy and Hank while also having players whose primary positions are actually IF, IB or OF and who may actually be more ready to prove they can hit in MLB (Yorke?).
I get your point and I am not suggesting they start at those positions they are platoon. Yes normally I am not a platoon fan, however this is an unusual group of talent at a position not normally seen.
I also want Yorke to have majority of RF reps. Same with Horwitz at 1b.
As bench players with ability to cover more than the catcher position is really the point.
I agree with all of this. Nice post!!!!!
Catching is other than starting pitching our strongest group of players. Very interesting to see how this all shakes out.
RIP big Bob Veale! A man who could really bring the heat.