Kepler gone, now my obligatory condemnation of this team, freaking cheap bastards, no matter how low you set the bar they refused to clear it, a trade for a guy who has half a season under his belt and a bunch of meaningless moves, but it’s not their fault, year in year out shoot, decade in decade out they keep showing us that they have zero intentions to be anything more than mediocre……now I’ll take a few days off from all Pirates things and then come back for more….
I don’t want Kepler for $10M. I think Winker brings better value if your going that route. I think Verdugo would be my second choice. Kepler was my third choice, but I think they are gonna try to trade for someone anyways.
How much better would these guys be than a Suwinski/Cook platoon. I like Winker but he is a DH at this point and I feel Suwinski is a better player than Vedugo.
Depends on the confidence in Jack. Last years version of Jack would be way worse then almost any name you would list that had even below league average production. Jack was bad. I prefer a better option than Jack and if his hitting in AAA or as the 4th or 5th outfielder forces his way to playing time, that is a good problem. Personally I think Cook will already be getting playing time spelling Horwitz(Reynolds at first and Cook in the OF).
Well Ortiz last year had a better year than 2023 Oviedo. So let’s not get to excited. Ortiz had a better era, whip, less walks per 9. Oviedo did pitch more innings in 2023. Just don’t want someone telling us that Oviedo is some kind of savior because of his great 2023 season. Or that Oviedo is guaranteed to be a SP out of spring training
I think Ortiz also had a better era, whip and less walks per 9 than all the starters on the Pirates not named Paul in 2024. He was nails. Who knows what to expect from Oviedo second half, especially coming back from injury. Oviedo didn't have a great 2023 season, but seemed like he was putting things together the second half. He had the best second half numbers of the Pirates starters in 2023. I am pulling for him in 2025, but don't have high expectations for any starting pitcher after missing a year.
Lil comparison of the Bucs to the guardians, rays, and brewers. Found that funny. Pretty pointless article. But most of what I read other than here is.
Thanks for the line. Oviedo had TJ surgery on Dec 6, 2023, therefore his key dates are:
May 26, 2024 - started throwing,
Jun 18, 2024 - 75 feet
Jul 08, 2024 - 90 feet
Aug 12, 2024 - Extended Distances
Dec 6, 2024 - 12 months
Feb 6, 2025 - 14 months
He should be fully released when the pitchers and Catchers report in Mid-February, and possibly be throwing 3/4 inning starts the last 3 weeks of ST. Does not mean he has to be in mid-season form, but at least 3+ innings. He also has an Option remaining. Oher pitchers with at least one Option remaining are Burrows 1, Ashcraft 2, Mlodzinski 2, Nicolas 2.
Im excited to have Oviedo back on the staff this year! Today's thought: sign Lorenzen which will open up Ashcraft/burrows/harrington to be moved in a deal without jeopardizing our pitching depth. I like Lorenzen because he can hit (kidding kidding) but he has been effective both in the pen and as a starter while bouncing between the two in past seasons.
I don't think he will be that expensive, and I think there's more upside in trading a fringe top 100 starter for a young, blocked bat at a similar stage rather than taking the money that it would take for Lorenzen and signing a Kepler or someone in that tier. Rest of the payroll can then pretty much go towards some bullpen arms and I think we would be well-suited to take a big step forward this year
I just don’t see how Lorenzon helps the club, except in a brawl, that is. I would rather they fill that role internally and spend money on back-end bullpen arm(s).
I see him as a 7th starter/swingman, so basically Ortiz last year, but with experience in that role. My thought is less about him being super valuable but moreso giving us pitching depth that opens up one of the younger arms to be dealt for a bat that we still need. The remaining FA market is uninspiring, so I think a trade is the best avenue for an additional impact bat
Diving further into this because I am avoiding work. Would we be better off with say Ashcraft and Kepler or Zac Veen (2 slots above Ashcraft per pipeline) and Lorenzen if the money is equal? (not saying the rockies would do this deal, just throwing a hypothetical)
Veen could probably use a few months in AAA but I see that as a huge boost in both the short term and next few years over the role that Ashcraft would probably play.
I don’t really see much in Zac Veen’s stat line that screams “needle mover.” In fairness likely none of Ashcraft, Kepler, or Lorenzon move the needle much either.
If Pirates really, really, want to bridge the gap offensively, they’re going to need to move Keller, Jones, or Chandler. Ashcraft, Burrows, Oviedo, & Harrington have minimal trade value in comparison.
Jones and Chandler are not going anywhere . . . doubt that Harrington is going anywhere either. Keller and Falter will be traded at some time this year. We'll see what happens with Johan Oviedo, Braxton Ashcraft, or Mike Burrows. Which of them will give us the best return?
The top INT pitching signings rarely work out. Oviedo is one I've always liked though.
They are getting better identifying them in more recent years, along with top prospects in general, but it's still a scary demographic for me.
It usually ends up being a huge dude with good stuff but shitty control.
Kepler gone, now my obligatory condemnation of this team, freaking cheap bastards, no matter how low you set the bar they refused to clear it, a trade for a guy who has half a season under his belt and a bunch of meaningless moves, but it’s not their fault, year in year out shoot, decade in decade out they keep showing us that they have zero intentions to be anything more than mediocre……now I’ll take a few days off from all Pirates things and then come back for more….
There’s still options remaining, including the trade route.
I don’t want Kepler for $10M. I think Winker brings better value if your going that route. I think Verdugo would be my second choice. Kepler was my third choice, but I think they are gonna try to trade for someone anyways.
How much better would these guys be than a Suwinski/Cook platoon. I like Winker but he is a DH at this point and I feel Suwinski is a better player than Vedugo.
Depends on the confidence in Jack. Last years version of Jack would be way worse then almost any name you would list that had even below league average production. Jack was bad. I prefer a better option than Jack and if his hitting in AAA or as the 4th or 5th outfielder forces his way to playing time, that is a good problem. Personally I think Cook will already be getting playing time spelling Horwitz(Reynolds at first and Cook in the OF).
I don’t really disagree but I think they need to add a lefty. Best case scenario, Suwinski turns it around but you can’t bank on that.
Well Ortiz last year had a better year than 2023 Oviedo. So let’s not get to excited. Ortiz had a better era, whip, less walks per 9. Oviedo did pitch more innings in 2023. Just don’t want someone telling us that Oviedo is some kind of savior because of his great 2023 season. Or that Oviedo is guaranteed to be a SP out of spring training
I think Ortiz also had a better era, whip and less walks per 9 than all the starters on the Pirates not named Paul in 2024. He was nails. Who knows what to expect from Oviedo second half, especially coming back from injury. Oviedo didn't have a great 2023 season, but seemed like he was putting things together the second half. He had the best second half numbers of the Pirates starters in 2023. I am pulling for him in 2025, but don't have high expectations for any starting pitcher after missing a year.
https://www.si.com/mlb/pirates/news/report-pittsburgh-pirates-open-minded-potential-jared-jones-trade
Lil comparison of the Bucs to the guardians, rays, and brewers. Found that funny. Pretty pointless article. But most of what I read other than here is.
Thanks for the line. Oviedo had TJ surgery on Dec 6, 2023, therefore his key dates are:
May 26, 2024 - started throwing,
Jun 18, 2024 - 75 feet
Jul 08, 2024 - 90 feet
Aug 12, 2024 - Extended Distances
Dec 6, 2024 - 12 months
Feb 6, 2025 - 14 months
He should be fully released when the pitchers and Catchers report in Mid-February, and possibly be throwing 3/4 inning starts the last 3 weeks of ST. Does not mean he has to be in mid-season form, but at least 3+ innings. He also has an Option remaining. Oher pitchers with at least one Option remaining are Burrows 1, Ashcraft 2, Mlodzinski 2, Nicolas 2.
Im excited to have Oviedo back on the staff this year! Today's thought: sign Lorenzen which will open up Ashcraft/burrows/harrington to be moved in a deal without jeopardizing our pitching depth. I like Lorenzen because he can hit (kidding kidding) but he has been effective both in the pen and as a starter while bouncing between the two in past seasons.
I don't think he will be that expensive, and I think there's more upside in trading a fringe top 100 starter for a young, blocked bat at a similar stage rather than taking the money that it would take for Lorenzen and signing a Kepler or someone in that tier. Rest of the payroll can then pretty much go towards some bullpen arms and I think we would be well-suited to take a big step forward this year
I just don’t see how Lorenzon helps the club, except in a brawl, that is. I would rather they fill that role internally and spend money on back-end bullpen arm(s).
right fielder, no?
I see him as a 7th starter/swingman, so basically Ortiz last year, but with experience in that role. My thought is less about him being super valuable but moreso giving us pitching depth that opens up one of the younger arms to be dealt for a bat that we still need. The remaining FA market is uninspiring, so I think a trade is the best avenue for an additional impact bat
Diving further into this because I am avoiding work. Would we be better off with say Ashcraft and Kepler or Zac Veen (2 slots above Ashcraft per pipeline) and Lorenzen if the money is equal? (not saying the rockies would do this deal, just throwing a hypothetical)
Veen could probably use a few months in AAA but I see that as a huge boost in both the short term and next few years over the role that Ashcraft would probably play.
I don’t really see much in Zac Veen’s stat line that screams “needle mover.” In fairness likely none of Ashcraft, Kepler, or Lorenzon move the needle much either.
If Pirates really, really, want to bridge the gap offensively, they’re going to need to move Keller, Jones, or Chandler. Ashcraft, Burrows, Oviedo, & Harrington have minimal trade value in comparison.
Jones and Chandler are not going anywhere . . . doubt that Harrington is going anywhere either. Keller and Falter will be traded at some time this year. We'll see what happens with Johan Oviedo, Braxton Ashcraft, or Mike Burrows. Which of them will give us the best return?