Now there's some pushback that the decision hasn't been made. It's Dodgers Nation reporting sources saying he's going to the Jays vs. Sportnet and ESPN reporting that their source(s) saying that a decision hasn't been made.
The pushback was in an update to the original post, so you could have read the article (which was really just a sentence) and came to the same conclusion :)
The guy at Dodgers Nation lays out a very good case for why it makes sense for the Jays' ownership group, Rogers Communications. I'm betting on that report's accuracy with the major outlets being annoyed that they weren't able to break the news.
Yeah, I've been hoping that it's the Jays or Angels, among the finalists. I also thought the Mariners would have been a neat fit but I guess they were never really in the conversation.
The best thing about it being the Jays, if it is the Jays, is that he'll have many more games in the Eastern time zone and watching him will be a nice alternative when I need a break from the Pirates.
Let the Jays sign him and then salary dump Guerrero to us and we get the Guerrero everyone expected. I know we won’t take his contract, but I like to dream
I am more optimistic than most people as well, but I think they will only get one starter. My guess is the Pirates have a short list of good pitchers that can make a come-back year with the coaching staff next year. Once one of them decides to take only a one or two year contract, the Pirates will sign him. Again, I am probably more optimistic than most. :)
For now I'm taking their (Cherington's and Shelton's) words at face value--they will add more pitching, they will add a power bat at 1B. If they don't, I hope fans and media hold them accountable. But like you, despite little evidence, I'm optimistic.
Fans are supposed to feel optimistic during the off season so hang in there at least until February. How do you hold them accountable? Cherington says one thing and does another all of the time then tries to convince you it was what he intended from the start.
If he plans for Davis to catch, the 40 man currently has 4 catchers and 5 outfielders on it. How’s that gonna work? Hint, it’s not and he’ll have to do something different but rest assured he’ll find some way to make it look like that’s what he meant all along.
He plans to add pitching and someone at first who can actually play the position and contribute? Believe it? Why not, it’s the off season but don’t hold your breath.
The only way I can hold them accountable is not making my next trip to Pittsburgh for a series until they do what they say they're going to do. I'd like to catch a series in PNC this year, but I'm holding off on planning that trip until there is clear evidence that they're trying to contend. Not that Bob will miss what I'd spend on tickets and concessions, but that's about all I can do. As I said, I'm hopeful they'll build on the momentum from the end of the season (else, why would Shelton mention "14 wins better" in every interview he gives?).
I can understand the wants to build a standard type lineup like many of the other teams have, but the Pirates have a lot of First Basemen already on the active roster. We did not get to Connor Joe much at 1B until after we traded Carlos Santana, but if we look at first basemen with 300+ innings, Joe is second with a +5.5 UZR/150. And as a part-timer, he hit 11 HR, had an ISO of .174, and a 107 wRC+. The Defense and Offense contributed to him being a 1.9 fWAR contributor in 2023.
We also have Jared Triolo who did well offensively and is solid+ at 3B, 1B, and 2B. We also want to use 1B as a spot where Endy can take time off from behind the plate and give his legs a break but still have him in the lineup. And, Henry Davis could possibly be another option at 1B and there's no telling when we may want to plug him in at the MLB level at C or 1B. Last year at the MLB level he had 10 doubles and 7 HR in only 225 AB - an EBH every 13 AB. I'd rather not close that option for his bat to be in the lineup.
That's 4 options for AB's at 1B just from within - would it benefit us to commit AB's to a primary 1B?
They should see Joe as more of a 4th OFer / platoon for Suwinski. It is hard to carry a guy on the 26-man just to platoon at 1B in this day of 8-man bullpens, especially if Cutch is coming back as full-time DH. With a full-time DH, backup catcher, 4th OF, and utility infielder, there is only 1 roster spot left for a position player, which is probably best spent on a super-utility, pinch-runner, or defensive sub type.
Is there a way we can get a forum feature or high discussion flag or something? Sometimes its nice to be able to have a conversation from the comments that just continues vs being lost from the latest. Thanks guys.
Gonzalez has a very good curveball too. He has thrown a 2-seamer in the past, but no one seemed to like the metrics and outcomes analysis of that pitch, so he abandoned it in 2022. Ironically, his performance begin to dip when he abandoned what was supposedly his weaker fastball offering. This may have been the result of the beginnings of his nerve compression, however. Don't be surprised if the Pirates have him attempt to re-introduce his 2-seamer. How effectively and how often he is able to use his curve as both an out-pitch and to jump ahead in the count has been decisive in his performance to date.
Great write up, Heller is a lot more intriguing for me as a depth option after reading this
As far as SP, RP and maybe 1st base: The Pirates will sign anyone that fits the 1 year contract for not more than 8 mil...
Apparently Ohtani to the Blue Jays.
Inches!
Now there's some pushback that the decision hasn't been made. It's Dodgers Nation reporting sources saying he's going to the Jays vs. Sportnet and ESPN reporting that their source(s) saying that a decision hasn't been made.
Just saw the headline pop up on mlbtr, didn't read the article. Thanks for the update.
The pushback was in an update to the original post, so you could have read the article (which was really just a sentence) and came to the same conclusion :)
The guy at Dodgers Nation lays out a very good case for why it makes sense for the Jays' ownership group, Rogers Communications. I'm betting on that report's accuracy with the major outlets being annoyed that they weren't able to break the news.
I am going with the pushback and the Mystery team is getting him. Ben got Bob exceedingly drunk and got him to ok spending crap loads on Shohei 😁
Wonder how many bartles and James wine coolers it takes to get Bob all tore up.
Sounds like a very scientific experiment that must be done!
Damn.
Well, as long as he stays in the AL . . . .
Yeah, I've been hoping that it's the Jays or Angels, among the finalists. I also thought the Mariners would have been a neat fit but I guess they were never really in the conversation.
The best thing about it being the Jays, if it is the Jays, is that he'll have many more games in the Eastern time zone and watching him will be a nice alternative when I need a break from the Pirates.
Let the Jays sign him and then salary dump Guerrero to us and we get the Guerrero everyone expected. I know we won’t take his contract, but I like to dream
Q: How are the Pirates planning to shore up their 2024 pitching staff?
A: Wait and see!
Q: Oh you mean wait and see what's available?
A: No we'll just sign a bunch of pitchers who were injured last year and "wait and see if they are healed enough to pitch a few games".
Lol, at least that's what it seems like!
Even though there’s zero evidence, I still believe that two more starters, better than Gonzales will be sign.
I am more optimistic than most people as well, but I think they will only get one starter. My guess is the Pirates have a short list of good pitchers that can make a come-back year with the coaching staff next year. Once one of them decides to take only a one or two year contract, the Pirates will sign him. Again, I am probably more optimistic than most. :)
For now I'm taking their (Cherington's and Shelton's) words at face value--they will add more pitching, they will add a power bat at 1B. If they don't, I hope fans and media hold them accountable. But like you, despite little evidence, I'm optimistic.
Fans are supposed to feel optimistic during the off season so hang in there at least until February. How do you hold them accountable? Cherington says one thing and does another all of the time then tries to convince you it was what he intended from the start.
If he plans for Davis to catch, the 40 man currently has 4 catchers and 5 outfielders on it. How’s that gonna work? Hint, it’s not and he’ll have to do something different but rest assured he’ll find some way to make it look like that’s what he meant all along.
He plans to add pitching and someone at first who can actually play the position and contribute? Believe it? Why not, it’s the off season but don’t hold your breath.
The only way I can hold them accountable is not making my next trip to Pittsburgh for a series until they do what they say they're going to do. I'd like to catch a series in PNC this year, but I'm holding off on planning that trip until there is clear evidence that they're trying to contend. Not that Bob will miss what I'd spend on tickets and concessions, but that's about all I can do. As I said, I'm hopeful they'll build on the momentum from the end of the season (else, why would Shelton mention "14 wins better" in every interview he gives?).
I can understand the wants to build a standard type lineup like many of the other teams have, but the Pirates have a lot of First Basemen already on the active roster. We did not get to Connor Joe much at 1B until after we traded Carlos Santana, but if we look at first basemen with 300+ innings, Joe is second with a +5.5 UZR/150. And as a part-timer, he hit 11 HR, had an ISO of .174, and a 107 wRC+. The Defense and Offense contributed to him being a 1.9 fWAR contributor in 2023.
We also have Jared Triolo who did well offensively and is solid+ at 3B, 1B, and 2B. We also want to use 1B as a spot where Endy can take time off from behind the plate and give his legs a break but still have him in the lineup. And, Henry Davis could possibly be another option at 1B and there's no telling when we may want to plug him in at the MLB level at C or 1B. Last year at the MLB level he had 10 doubles and 7 HR in only 225 AB - an EBH every 13 AB. I'd rather not close that option for his bat to be in the lineup.
That's 4 options for AB's at 1B just from within - would it benefit us to commit AB's to a primary 1B?
They should see Joe as more of a 4th OFer / platoon for Suwinski. It is hard to carry a guy on the 26-man just to platoon at 1B in this day of 8-man bullpens, especially if Cutch is coming back as full-time DH. With a full-time DH, backup catcher, 4th OF, and utility infielder, there is only 1 roster spot left for a position player, which is probably best spent on a super-utility, pinch-runner, or defensive sub type.
Is there a way we can get a forum feature or high discussion flag or something? Sometimes its nice to be able to have a conversation from the comments that just continues vs being lost from the latest. Thanks guys.
Gonzalez has a very good curveball too. He has thrown a 2-seamer in the past, but no one seemed to like the metrics and outcomes analysis of that pitch, so he abandoned it in 2022. Ironically, his performance begin to dip when he abandoned what was supposedly his weaker fastball offering. This may have been the result of the beginnings of his nerve compression, however. Don't be surprised if the Pirates have him attempt to re-introduce his 2-seamer. How effectively and how often he is able to use his curve as both an out-pitch and to jump ahead in the count has been decisive in his performance to date.