This Tellez thing is idiotic and lame. He’s a fat guy with a great name who is on the downside of his career. The Pirates have a real hole at first base and this is the best they can do? This organization is a joke.
I thought jokes were supposed to be funny. This is not the slightest bit humorous. The Pirates are used to picking up the crumbs other teams throw away, but this Tellez business is a giant flip of the bird to all Pirate fans by one Ben Cherington. Sickening.
I think we'll carry three catchers and Davis will split time at C and DH, maybe 4 days per week at C with Delay taking 2 and Sanchez 1. I worry that Shelton will frequently replace Davis late in games when he catching, which seems to be a poor way to develop an everyday player.
I don't see us spending for a significant upgrade in RF, especially with Tellez evidently being our solution at 1B. If we won't do that, then perhaps an elite defender in CF with Suwinski moving to RF is the best option. Or, they could use Bae or Triolo primarily as a CF.
Most teams would bite the bullet and up their payroll to make up for the loss of key player but I see us just shifting players around positions. That's not all bad. As SouthernBuc pointed out today, Davis getting regular reps could pay off down the road and the same could be true for Bae and/or Triolo getting more time.
Bae sucks. I’m awfully tired of this organization giving tryout time to fringe prospects like that because they’re too chickenshit to do anything else.
Unbelievable! Not a happy day in Pirateland. Someone below mentioned the '92 Bream game. I just wish we could get to another Bream game. I never thought I'd say that 31 years later. Talk about two franchises that went in opposite directions! The Christmas stockings had dreams of Naylor or Hoskins and Wacha or Imanaga on them with healthy and productive prospects and sophomores alike. After seeing the money flying around the same old teams and the penny-pinching Bucs signing the crumbs (Tellez) and trading for the leftovers (Gonzalez - granted more tasty leftovers than usual?), I don't know how much more I can take. Is it bad to want your team to compete when neither the system nor the team want them to? Why do I still care? I guess because I'm a glutton for sadomasochistic sports fanatic syndrome (SSFS). Oh, and I guess the Bucco catcher position is now officially cursed.
An interesting tidbit at ESPN related to yesterday's main topic of discussion--the Giants offered Ohtani a nearly identical contract in total value and deferrals, and they say that their understanding is that several other teams were in the same neighborhood.
I.e., don't blame the Dodgers--they won because Ohtani wanted to play there instead of San Francisco, Chicago, or Toronto, not because they were able to out-bid everyone else.
Tellez does have a .905 OPS in 74 PAs at PNC. Most of that damage was from '21 when he had a 1.609 OPS in 20 PAs. His '22 numbers in PNC were in line with his season averages and his'23 numbers were awful but he just had 11 PAs. I'm not buying a PNC-effect.
Mackey notes he's a fun-loving guy, so at least Cherington and Shelton should be able to talk about the upbeat culture.
The Sid Bream game is on MLB Channel now, ranked 4th all-time best game in history. I remember it still, had to go to a party or meeting right after the game and act happy....what a downer.
I'll reserve judgment on Telez until I hear about his defensive metrics. His bat could be the best 1B bat in a long time.....if he hits more than Chavis 14 dingers. Every 5th base hit was a HR last year.
So with Lugo getting 45mil for 3 years pretty much eliminates Tier 2 starting pitching for Pirates, not much left after that and not much if anything to trade...
You might be on to something--Tellez pitched an inning in '23 and gave up only one hit while recording a strikeout. Some pretty good rate stats there--0.00 ERA, 9 K/IP, infinite K/BB.
This is a big jump from all predictions. Either the Giants are desperate after missing out on several high profile FAs, all the national outlets were simply off in their evaluation and sources, or we're seeing the start of a trend post-Ohtani.
In any case, my optimism that we'd make a meaningful FA signing just dropped a notch or two.
I recall posting when we signed Sanchez that I was worried we'd hear that Endy or Hank was injured. I wasn't completely serious but I didn't know how else to explain the signing. So now we know.
Not defending the inaction, but I’m not sure I love 3 years for Lugo, especially at that salary. He’s 34 and with exactly 1 good season as a starting pitcher in his career. There’s other guys I’d rather gamble on. Kenta Maeda... oops he already signed for a very reasonable deal.
I'm skeptical too and he was not at the top of my realistic wish list. It appears to be a slight overpay given predictions by McDaniel ($36MM/3), Fangraphs ($39MM/3), and MLBTR ($42MM/3) but not so much of an overpay that it would keep the Royals from doing other things they might want to do.
I'd like to know if we'd be willing to make a similar overpay if we felt like it would help us get better, or are we only in the market for bargains?
1 good year and 1st year starting since 2017. Not having signings does not always equate to inaction or not making quality offerings. Sometimes pitchers go to a city where they want to and not take the best offer. See J. A. Happ. After 2015, he was given a preliminary offer by Huntington with the understanding that he would get back with a counter after he saw the market. Toronto gave him an offer and his wife and family loved Toronto and he took the offer because of his family. Never got back to Neal. Players have reasons for signing and it is not always for the Money. Have to have the player want to come to a city besides the team involved making a quality offer. Not worried yet.
I agree. The need to close some deals. All I am saying is it takes 2 to tango and just because team a signs a player does not mean teams b, c, or d could have made the same deal with the player. Never said I was content or would not be concerned at some point. I am just not so worried yet.
I was about to post the same, and I guess their owner understands that the "time to spend" isn't only at the deadline when you're in a pennant race. Oh but the risk they're taking on.
KC also signing Chris Stratton, who’s still a solid reliever. They’re a rebuilding small market team and they can do this stuff. Cherington’s rebuild is a fraud.
We did not keep Chris Stratton a few years ago because we wanted to rebuild the Bullpen. The Pirate Relievers went from 24th in 2022 to 9th in 2023 (FG). Picking up guys like Moreta, Borucki, Hernandez, and Perdomo, to go along with 2022 pickup Colin Holderman, and 2021 pickup David Bednar, along with IFA's Bido/Contreras, and draft guys Carmen Mlodzinski, Colin Selby and Hunter Stratton has solidified the BP for years to come.
I liked the add of the SP from the Braves and advocated signing a Seth Lugo - type, but that's as far as I would go at this point in the rebuild. I want to build some value into Andre Jackson, Quinn Priester, JT Brubaker, Jared Jones, Mike Burrows, Luis Ortiz, Roansy Contreras, etc.
The hitting and D look good, but who knows how well Oneil Cruz will come back off of the loss of a year to injury. I like the fact that Suwinski, Rodriguez, Peguero, Triolo, and Joe are all coming off good years, as are Hayes and Reynolds. I'd love to see a healthy 'Cutch continue to help mold this group for one more year before we add a another bat to the lineup. Can "Tanks" hit at the MLB level? He is so much more than just a power hitter! If we draft him will we start him at advanced and move him quickly if he is able to hit at that level?
The point with Stratton was not that the Pirates needed him, it was that another small market team is willing to invest to address its problems. The Pirates aren't. All they're willing to do is add an ultra-cheap guy that two other teams simply wanted to be rid of.
Yeah, I don't think the Royals expect to contend this year but they're spending now for players that can help them contend a year or two from now (though in the AL Central, they might even contend this year). The Pirates mantra of spending when the time is right seems to keep them from planning more than a year ahead. As we've noted, it's a very cautious, risk-averse philosophy.
sources saying the next CBA replaces lottery draft order with system to allow infinite spending in the MLB Draft and International for lowest Major League payroll teams
The Pittsburgh Pirate only once spent more in the uncapped draft era than they have in the capped era and nearly every huge IFA spending spree turned out to be an enormous waste of money.
There just isn't THAT much elite talent floating around at any given time. Very little marginal benefit from throwing $3m at any HS pitcher with a pulse.
Another one of those flowery Pittsburgh media narratives that makes no sense upon inspection.
This has often led me to think about what a good alternative to the draft might be. Some kind of cap on overall spending, but control in how it’s directed and at what players? As in, the A’s would get the highest cap at $20M, then the Royals at $19.7 and so on. So you could spend your money anyway you wanted.
MLB could make it into a signing day type of thing. I’d have to take that day off cause I’d be refreshing an app every five seconds. God that would cause chaos. I’m for it.
The entire reason a cap exists is to prevent owners from spending more money. It serves absolutely no other purpose.
Just go back to the regular old draft. It won't do anything for the Pirate's competitiveness, but it will be a far more fairer way to take advantage of labor.
Yeah the cap was the wrong way to think about it because it still limits money that goes to labor. I was trying to remember a system someone had written about where players had some choice in where they go, but I’ve forgotten now.
And I’d be fine going back to the old draft with some add-ons: comp picks for losing FA (but not signing FA-those should never be linked), competitive balance picks, and finally...trading picks.
Nice package of Alcantara highlights (although how did the Frank Schwindel pitching clip get in there)! This guy is 1000% better hitter than Alika, and has some pop.
He should've hit a bagillion home runs playing in Reno last year if he had grown into a man body. I'm open to his addition, but until proven further, looking at his 2023 Triple-A batted ball data vs. Alika's: Sergio = Alika
This Tellez thing is idiotic and lame. He’s a fat guy with a great name who is on the downside of his career. The Pirates have a real hole at first base and this is the best they can do? This organization is a joke.
He was obviously the cheapest guy available. That's the only metric Bob 'n Ben know.
Wins/$ trumps Wins for Nutting.
I thought jokes were supposed to be funny. This is not the slightest bit humorous. The Pirates are used to picking up the crumbs other teams throw away, but this Tellez business is a giant flip of the bird to all Pirate fans by one Ben Cherington. Sickening.
Endy is out for the season. No wonder they're talking about Davis catching.
I hope this doesn't impact their offseason plans beyond signing Sanchez--we still need to plan to contend.
I wonder what the chain reaction of this is. David behind the plate, but now the OF. Cruz to CF, Joe/Jack in RF?
I think we'll carry three catchers and Davis will split time at C and DH, maybe 4 days per week at C with Delay taking 2 and Sanchez 1. I worry that Shelton will frequently replace Davis late in games when he catching, which seems to be a poor way to develop an everyday player.
I don't see us spending for a significant upgrade in RF, especially with Tellez evidently being our solution at 1B. If we won't do that, then perhaps an elite defender in CF with Suwinski moving to RF is the best option. Or, they could use Bae or Triolo primarily as a CF.
Most teams would bite the bullet and up their payroll to make up for the loss of key player but I see us just shifting players around positions. That's not all bad. As SouthernBuc pointed out today, Davis getting regular reps could pay off down the road and the same could be true for Bae and/or Triolo getting more time.
Bae sucks. I’m awfully tired of this organization giving tryout time to fringe prospects like that because they’re too chickenshit to do anything else.
I am in support of getting bae off this team asap
Unbelievable! Not a happy day in Pirateland. Someone below mentioned the '92 Bream game. I just wish we could get to another Bream game. I never thought I'd say that 31 years later. Talk about two franchises that went in opposite directions! The Christmas stockings had dreams of Naylor or Hoskins and Wacha or Imanaga on them with healthy and productive prospects and sophomores alike. After seeing the money flying around the same old teams and the penny-pinching Bucs signing the crumbs (Tellez) and trading for the leftovers (Gonzalez - granted more tasty leftovers than usual?), I don't know how much more I can take. Is it bad to want your team to compete when neither the system nor the team want them to? Why do I still care? I guess because I'm a glutton for sadomasochistic sports fanatic syndrome (SSFS). Oh, and I guess the Bucco catcher position is now officially cursed.
Unbelievable. Huge setback.
good thing we have two of them
Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkk
He had 22 PAs in the DOWL, so perhaps the injury happened there.
Just read hurt while swinging the bat.
An interesting tidbit at ESPN related to yesterday's main topic of discussion--the Giants offered Ohtani a nearly identical contract in total value and deferrals, and they say that their understanding is that several other teams were in the same neighborhood.
I.e., don't blame the Dodgers--they won because Ohtani wanted to play there instead of San Francisco, Chicago, or Toronto, not because they were able to out-bid everyone else.
Tellez does have a .905 OPS in 74 PAs at PNC. Most of that damage was from '21 when he had a 1.609 OPS in 20 PAs. His '22 numbers in PNC were in line with his season averages and his'23 numbers were awful but he just had 11 PAs. I'm not buying a PNC-effect.
Mackey notes he's a fun-loving guy, so at least Cherington and Shelton should be able to talk about the upbeat culture.
Ben must really like the next Holliday kid in the 2025 draft.
The Sid Bream game is on MLB Channel now, ranked 4th all-time best game in history. I remember it still, had to go to a party or meeting right after the game and act happy....what a downer.
Still remember exactly where I was when Sid came chugging around to score……..thanks for reopening the wounds and dumping a bag of salt in it……..
I'll reserve judgment on Telez until I hear about his defensive metrics. His bat could be the best 1B bat in a long time.....if he hits more than Chavis 14 dingers. Every 5th base hit was a HR last year.
Unfortunately there isn’t much to reserve there. He’s pretty lousy defensively.
He is below average defensively but he's tall, I guess he has that going for him.
And wide.
So with Lugo getting 45mil for 3 years pretty much eliminates Tier 2 starting pitching for Pirates, not much left after that and not much if anything to trade...
Bucks just signed Tellez for 1 year
So last year we signed Santana, who the Brewers then traded for as an upgrade over Tellez. We're going in the wrong direction.
But it's a one-year deal and he has a lot to prove before he hits the market again, so maybe it will work out. He was good in '22.
At $3 million, Tellez is less than half what Santana was getting last year and only $1 million more than Ohtani in 2024.
So tellez is for sure going to be 50% better than ohtani this year? Ill take it
As long as we're only counting the pitching side of Ohtani.
You might be on to something--Tellez pitched an inning in '23 and gave up only one hit while recording a strikeout. Some pretty good rate stats there--0.00 ERA, 9 K/IP, infinite K/BB.
Any relation to Dodgers prospect River Ryan?
Brother
That's encouraging at least thanks
Lee to the giants for 6 years and over 110M
This is a big jump from all predictions. Either the Giants are desperate after missing out on several high profile FAs, all the national outlets were simply off in their evaluation and sources, or we're seeing the start of a trend post-Ohtani.
In any case, my optimism that we'd make a meaningful FA signing just dropped a notch or two.
I think a lot of its overreaction to them constantly missing out on FAs.
Endy Rodriguez is having elbow surgery. The nature of it is unknown.
That's not good.
And that explains the Ali Sanchez very strange MLB deal last week.
I recall posting when we signed Sanchez that I was worried we'd hear that Endy or Hank was injured. I wasn't completely serious but I didn't know how else to explain the signing. So now we know.
Ugh, do you know which elbow?
No details at all yet
Big-budget Royals nearing a deal with Lugo.
Meanwhile, Sir Not-Appearing-in-this-Offseason still isn’t appearing in this offseason.
Not defending the inaction, but I’m not sure I love 3 years for Lugo, especially at that salary. He’s 34 and with exactly 1 good season as a starting pitcher in his career. There’s other guys I’d rather gamble on. Kenta Maeda... oops he already signed for a very reasonable deal.
I'm skeptical too and he was not at the top of my realistic wish list. It appears to be a slight overpay given predictions by McDaniel ($36MM/3), Fangraphs ($39MM/3), and MLBTR ($42MM/3) but not so much of an overpay that it would keep the Royals from doing other things they might want to do.
I'd like to know if we'd be willing to make a similar overpay if we felt like it would help us get better, or are we only in the market for bargains?
In Jim Mora voice: Overpay? What, you talking about the Pirates overpay?
1 good year and 1st year starting since 2017. Not having signings does not always equate to inaction or not making quality offerings. Sometimes pitchers go to a city where they want to and not take the best offer. See J. A. Happ. After 2015, he was given a preliminary offer by Huntington with the understanding that he would get back with a counter after he saw the market. Toronto gave him an offer and his wife and family loved Toronto and he took the offer because of his family. Never got back to Neal. Players have reasons for signing and it is not always for the Money. Have to have the player want to come to a city besides the team involved making a quality offer. Not worried yet.
It’s stunning how many people here have Stockholm syndrome with this management group.
Close is only good with horseshoes and hand grenades. They gotta nail something here.
I agree. The need to close some deals. All I am saying is it takes 2 to tango and just because team a signs a player does not mean teams b, c, or d could have made the same deal with the player. Never said I was content or would not be concerned at some point. I am just not so worried yet.
"Not having signings does not always equate to inaction or not making quality offerings."
Not ever having signings, apart from guys nobody else wants, does.
In other words, the wife has the final say!
Lol! Pretty much!
I was about to post the same, and I guess their owner understands that the "time to spend" isn't only at the deadline when you're in a pennant race. Oh but the risk they're taking on.
KC also signing Chris Stratton, who’s still a solid reliever. They’re a rebuilding small market team and they can do this stuff. Cherington’s rebuild is a fraud.
We did not keep Chris Stratton a few years ago because we wanted to rebuild the Bullpen. The Pirate Relievers went from 24th in 2022 to 9th in 2023 (FG). Picking up guys like Moreta, Borucki, Hernandez, and Perdomo, to go along with 2022 pickup Colin Holderman, and 2021 pickup David Bednar, along with IFA's Bido/Contreras, and draft guys Carmen Mlodzinski, Colin Selby and Hunter Stratton has solidified the BP for years to come.
I liked the add of the SP from the Braves and advocated signing a Seth Lugo - type, but that's as far as I would go at this point in the rebuild. I want to build some value into Andre Jackson, Quinn Priester, JT Brubaker, Jared Jones, Mike Burrows, Luis Ortiz, Roansy Contreras, etc.
The hitting and D look good, but who knows how well Oneil Cruz will come back off of the loss of a year to injury. I like the fact that Suwinski, Rodriguez, Peguero, Triolo, and Joe are all coming off good years, as are Hayes and Reynolds. I'd love to see a healthy 'Cutch continue to help mold this group for one more year before we add a another bat to the lineup. Can "Tanks" hit at the MLB level? He is so much more than just a power hitter! If we draft him will we start him at advanced and move him quickly if he is able to hit at that level?
This is Cosmo Kramer-level fantasy land stuff.
The point with Stratton was not that the Pirates needed him, it was that another small market team is willing to invest to address its problems. The Pirates aren't. All they're willing to do is add an ultra-cheap guy that two other teams simply wanted to be rid of.
...paid to get rid of.
Yeah, I don't think the Royals expect to contend this year but they're spending now for players that can help them contend a year or two from now (though in the AL Central, they might even contend this year). The Pirates mantra of spending when the time is right seems to keep them from planning more than a year ahead. As we've noted, it's a very cautious, risk-averse philosophy.
Can Sergio pitch?
Wonder what the HAA is on that 70 grade arm lol
Maybe that's the plan all along!!!!!!
GMBC continues the big brain plays no one else sees!
Our 1B better have some extra padding in his glove.....with the BB's that Cruz and Sergio will be throwing his way!
Oh, he's got extra padding ALLLLLLL over lol
sources saying the next CBA replaces lottery draft order with system to allow infinite spending in the MLB Draft and International for lowest Major League payroll teams
The Pittsburgh Pirate only once spent more in the uncapped draft era than they have in the capped era and nearly every huge IFA spending spree turned out to be an enormous waste of money.
There just isn't THAT much elite talent floating around at any given time. Very little marginal benefit from throwing $3m at any HS pitcher with a pulse.
Another one of those flowery Pittsburgh media narratives that makes no sense upon inspection.
This has often led me to think about what a good alternative to the draft might be. Some kind of cap on overall spending, but control in how it’s directed and at what players? As in, the A’s would get the highest cap at $20M, then the Royals at $19.7 and so on. So you could spend your money anyway you wanted.
MLB could make it into a signing day type of thing. I’d have to take that day off cause I’d be refreshing an app every five seconds. God that would cause chaos. I’m for it.
The entire reason a cap exists is to prevent owners from spending more money. It serves absolutely no other purpose.
Just go back to the regular old draft. It won't do anything for the Pirate's competitiveness, but it will be a far more fairer way to take advantage of labor.
Yeah the cap was the wrong way to think about it because it still limits money that goes to labor. I was trying to remember a system someone had written about where players had some choice in where they go, but I’ve forgotten now.
And I’d be fine going back to the old draft with some add-ons: comp picks for losing FA (but not signing FA-those should never be linked), competitive balance picks, and finally...trading picks.
the draft order is irrelevant in comparison with the pool of dollars to spend
Totally why the Yankees just spent $100m every year before the cap and floated all the best talent to themselves in Rounds 2-5.
Nice package of Alcantara highlights (although how did the Frank Schwindel pitching clip get in there)! This guy is 1000% better hitter than Alika, and has some pop.
I'm looking at their Triple-A numbers side-by-side, and.... not really lol they're kind of the same
Welp, I'm looking at their MLB numbers.......not at all the same in 500 AB's for Alcantara.
That much is true, yes. Their Triple-A batted ball data is eerily similar.
Some guys grow into their man body, others remain toothpicks.
He should've hit a bagillion home runs playing in Reno last year if he had grown into a man body. I'm open to his addition, but until proven further, looking at his 2023 Triple-A batted ball data vs. Alika's: Sergio = Alika
They'd make a weak hitting platoon, Sergio is really bad hitting right handed.
So Alcantara replaces Marcano, but with a better glove.