I love guys with the baseline of being a + or even ++ defender. We can be patient with the bat because they still add value, which is why I was never down on Hayes. Maybe Triolo becomes Zobrist-light or even Zobrist-esque, but in any case I share some of your optimism about Triolo (though I might put the figure closer to 50% :)).
It's a little disappointing that in year 4 of the tear-down/rebuild that we don't have better representation on the Pipeline list than players at 30 and 31, especially given how quickly the Reds have turned things around. Maybe it's a year or two too soon to expect better, but we traded away a lot of talent for prospects that haven't panned out yet.
OTOH, development isn't linear and I'm hopeful that players like Peguero, Bae, Gonzales, ... follow the Suwinski path where they take significant leaps forward in the sophomore years and that Contreras, Ortiz, Priester, ... figure things out the way Keller has.
For now, though, I'm skeptical as to whether we've fixed the biggest issue from the previous regime in terms of development. There's no doubt things are different, but for all the talk where is the tangible evidence that the changes are helping prospects get to and then succeed in the majors? Again, maybe too soon and I'm staying open-minded, just skeptical.
Yeah, you can look at that list in a couple of ways. One way is that this year was STACKED with rookies, and it would be hard to move high up that list regardless. The amount of top 5-10 prospects that graduated this year is insane, I'm not sure that is the case every year.
Maybe you want a former first-overall pick and your top-hitting prospect to come in higher, but then again, if you look at everyone ahead of them, I mean, it's a pretty stacked list, and it doesn't take away from how good they can be on their own.
Jim Callis made the list, and he was on a podcast the other day still saying he thinks Henry Davis is a 25+ home run right fielder. So, he's still really high on him.
I really think they are doing Davis a disservice if they want his bat in the lineup. If they would let him focus on right field, he would have the chance to develop into a competent fielder. I think it would also help his bat develop.
Agreed but BC just said that Davis is a catcher and will be catching come spring. Of course he’s said that kind of stuff before and it never happened. How he plans to juggle him and Endy behind the plate is anyone’s guess unless they both play other positions as well and you’re absolutely right that Davis needs all the repetitions he can get if he’s going to play right field competently. Sometimes I think Cherington’s just blowing smoke and playing to the crowd but we’ll see what happens I suppose.
If three of those four become members of the rotation, that will be a huge success on the pitching side of development. Skenes almost has to become an ace to say they added value with their development, but the success or failure of the other three along with Harrington, Burrows, Barco, Wolf, and Kennedy (all top 11 prospects according to Pipeline) will provide a lot of insight into whether development is now better or just different than what it was before.
I'm optimistic, but going back to year 5 of Huntington's regime we were loaded with high-upside pitching prospects (https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2011/pirates/) and hardly any panned out. Fortunately we were able to acquire Burnett, Liriano, Volquez, and others to fill in the gaps. This time around, hopefully more of our pitching can be homegrown.
If I'm not mistaken, none of the signings of Burnett, Liriano, Volquez and even AJ Happ seemed that good at the time. They all were at the point in the career where they had major question marks. It would be similar to the Pirates signing guys like Manaea, Severino, Paxton or Ryu this off-season. Wouldn't it be asesome if the Pirates scouting and coaching could have the same success with this type of pitchers again?
IIRC, I was somewhat meh on Burnett--he had been very good but had struggled more recently, but I was glad they were trading for MLB players. I had always liked Liriano and was happy with that signing. After the success with Liriano, I was optimistic about the Volquez signing but never would have thought that Happ would be as good as he was with us and after he left via free agency.
Anyway, yes this is a great year for the Pirates to repeat that process as there are many Liriano-types in that second tier of FA pitchers, it's just finding the right ones.
There have only been 3 years of development possible under Cherington so far. No MiLB season in 2020. If those 3, not including Skenes all give a positive contribution to the MLB roster by the end of the season, it would be pretty good development in 4 years old work. If 3 of the 4 are solid rotation members going into 2025, grand slam win.
That we shat see that is why I said we will talk this time next year. My point being, 3 years is not enough time to pas judgement one way or another on development.
Triolo will end up being better than 90% of that list
I love guys with the baseline of being a + or even ++ defender. We can be patient with the bat because they still add value, which is why I was never down on Hayes. Maybe Triolo becomes Zobrist-light or even Zobrist-esque, but in any case I share some of your optimism about Triolo (though I might put the figure closer to 50% :)).
It's a little disappointing that in year 4 of the tear-down/rebuild that we don't have better representation on the Pipeline list than players at 30 and 31, especially given how quickly the Reds have turned things around. Maybe it's a year or two too soon to expect better, but we traded away a lot of talent for prospects that haven't panned out yet.
OTOH, development isn't linear and I'm hopeful that players like Peguero, Bae, Gonzales, ... follow the Suwinski path where they take significant leaps forward in the sophomore years and that Contreras, Ortiz, Priester, ... figure things out the way Keller has.
For now, though, I'm skeptical as to whether we've fixed the biggest issue from the previous regime in terms of development. There's no doubt things are different, but for all the talk where is the tangible evidence that the changes are helping prospects get to and then succeed in the majors? Again, maybe too soon and I'm staying open-minded, just skeptical.
Yeah, you can look at that list in a couple of ways. One way is that this year was STACKED with rookies, and it would be hard to move high up that list regardless. The amount of top 5-10 prospects that graduated this year is insane, I'm not sure that is the case every year.
Maybe you want a former first-overall pick and your top-hitting prospect to come in higher, but then again, if you look at everyone ahead of them, I mean, it's a pretty stacked list, and it doesn't take away from how good they can be on their own.
Jim Callis made the list, and he was on a podcast the other day still saying he thinks Henry Davis is a 25+ home run right fielder. So, he's still really high on him.
It is indeed a stacked list, and Evan Carter may be better than anyone on this year's list (he'll be on next year's list).
Carter + a pitcher was my dream in a hypothetical Reynolds trade before the season, Texas probably wouldn’t even go for a 1-for-1 at this point.
I really think they are doing Davis a disservice if they want his bat in the lineup. If they would let him focus on right field, he would have the chance to develop into a competent fielder. I think it would also help his bat develop.
Agreed but BC just said that Davis is a catcher and will be catching come spring. Of course he’s said that kind of stuff before and it never happened. How he plans to juggle him and Endy behind the plate is anyone’s guess unless they both play other positions as well and you’re absolutely right that Davis needs all the repetitions he can get if he’s going to play right field competently. Sometimes I think Cherington’s just blowing smoke and playing to the crowd but we’ll see what happens I suppose.
Yeah Cherington's development has been pretty bad, imo.
Let’s talk a year from now when Jones, Chandler, and Solometo have all reached the show along with Skenes……..
If three of those four become members of the rotation, that will be a huge success on the pitching side of development. Skenes almost has to become an ace to say they added value with their development, but the success or failure of the other three along with Harrington, Burrows, Barco, Wolf, and Kennedy (all top 11 prospects according to Pipeline) will provide a lot of insight into whether development is now better or just different than what it was before.
I'm optimistic, but going back to year 5 of Huntington's regime we were loaded with high-upside pitching prospects (https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2011/pirates/) and hardly any panned out. Fortunately we were able to acquire Burnett, Liriano, Volquez, and others to fill in the gaps. This time around, hopefully more of our pitching can be homegrown.
If I'm not mistaken, none of the signings of Burnett, Liriano, Volquez and even AJ Happ seemed that good at the time. They all were at the point in the career where they had major question marks. It would be similar to the Pirates signing guys like Manaea, Severino, Paxton or Ryu this off-season. Wouldn't it be asesome if the Pirates scouting and coaching could have the same success with this type of pitchers again?
IIRC, I was somewhat meh on Burnett--he had been very good but had struggled more recently, but I was glad they were trading for MLB players. I had always liked Liriano and was happy with that signing. After the success with Liriano, I was optimistic about the Volquez signing but never would have thought that Happ would be as good as he was with us and after he left via free agency.
Anyway, yes this is a great year for the Pirates to repeat that process as there are many Liriano-types in that second tier of FA pitchers, it's just finding the right ones.
There have only been 3 years of development possible under Cherington so far. No MiLB season in 2020. If those 3, not including Skenes all give a positive contribution to the MLB roster by the end of the season, it would be pretty good development in 4 years old work. If 3 of the 4 are solid rotation members going into 2025, grand slam win.
Very low odds there. More likely 2 of the 4 have TJS in the next year than 3/4 are solid rotation parts in '25.
That we shat see that is why I said we will talk this time next year. My point being, 3 years is not enough time to pas judgement one way or another on development.