I will take the 2022 Cease, 2nd in Cy Young. With how fast as some of these starting pitchers go from stars to question marks, I am a little concerned with Cease's 2023 season. 7-9, 4.58 ERA, 1.42 whip.
On a more general note, the Nola signing maybe got the pitching market moving, as someone suggested it would. So far just Lopez and Lynn today, but it's something. Lynn was someone that I thought would be a good signing as a veteran leader, but it makes sense that he'd sign with the Cards.
Speaking for pitchers, I was a little annoyed by this comment in the MLBTR post "Looking For a Match In a Dylan Cease Trade":
"while some up-and-coming clubs like the Marlins, Guardians, Tigers, and Pirates have far more pressing needs on their roster that seem likely to take priority over adding a win-soon, front-end arm like Cease."
For one, we have nothing more pressing than acquiring a "front-end arm" to pair with Keller. For two, we should be considered "win-soon". It's probably nothing more than ignorance by a national outlet, but I think we should be considered a near perfect match for a Cease trade. A guy like Cease would not only provide the pitching we need but could serve as a mentor for Keller and Skenes. And we have, supposedly, a top system in value so it should be easy to find prospects that the Sox like.
This is not to say that I think we'll do it because it seems too bold of a move for Cherington. It's easy to say we need to win now, but much harder to spend prospect value to increase the likelihood of that happening.
Yes of course the AUDACITY of a national writer to use the complete and total history of the Pittsburgh Pirates to assume they are unlikely to commit to a type of move they've literally never done.
I’m not sure how close the Bucs actually are to “win soon” mainly because I don’t think management is as serious as we want them to be. This is before we even get to the young graduates that struggled in the show this season. So given all of that, is it any wonder or surprise that an outlet like MLBTR would give the Bucs an afterthought mention like that?
Yeah, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we contend in '24. But they could follow the model that some teams have used recently by acquiring an impact player(s) a year before they expect to contend (Cease is under contract through '25).
Back in August, Kiley had us 3rd but I don't how many prospects he was including that have now graduated.
In any case, yes, it would be a steep price. But either that pays off because he helps us contend, or we move him at the '25 deadline to recover some of that cost.
Judging from that list, he had Endy in the top 40 and he’s graduated so it’s likely lower than that. In any event, a bunch of analysts have said the minors in terms of prospects has hit a bit of a downturn. Maybe that’s legit; super duper prospects don’t say in a system long because they usually are flying through in the express lane. Anyway, a top 5 system now doesn’t mean the same as a top 5 system 4-5 years ago.
As for trading for Cease? I’m down. I’m not sure what he’d cost or what the Sox are interested in. The trade for Bummer makes me think they’re more interested in guys close to the majors or recent grads. I’d have no qualms offering Hank as part of that package, but there’s gotta be a good bit more going the other way.
I’d be pretty tempted to, yeah. Personally, I’d rather that third piece be something other than Peguro cause I think he could be pretty good. But I’d have no issue with the first two being the part of the package.
This would never happen, but if I’m Ben, I’d also to persuade the Sox make Eloy part of the return to maybe drive the prospect cost down a bit. He’s locked in this year, but the two years after are club option years.
Yeah, I know FG has us 9th; I was just offering another ranking though when Kiley/ESPN update their rankings we might be lower if the August ranking included players like Davis (and evidently that will be the case given Arky's post). However, when we're thinking of value we have to trade, players like Davis, Peguero, Bae, Gonzales, Mlod, ... should be considered too. We have lots of young talent to make a deal like this, if/when we're ready to contend.
Just speaking as a fan that wants a greater sense of urgency from this FO as we watch teams have much quicker rebuilds than the track we're on.
Sign Montgomery -pay him the money. Sign Snell -pay him the money. Never gonna happen, just like winning is never gonna happen. The Pirates are the pauper (Thanks Nutting) in a world of the wealthy.
I don't know that I would love snell for the money he would command, his very short outings and erratic control make me question how he is going to age
Given that they are NOT going to sign him this point is mute, BUT do you really believe they should not sign him if they could. He's incrementally better than anyone they have.
Sonny Gray just finished a 4-yr contract over which he put up 12 fWAR for only like $45m.
Coupla those would go a long way, Ben.
I will take the 2022 Cease, 2nd in Cy Young. With how fast as some of these starting pitchers go from stars to question marks, I am a little concerned with Cease's 2023 season. 7-9, 4.58 ERA, 1.42 whip.
About the time Archer went bust. He also lost velo from the previous season, similar to Archer.
On a more general note, the Nola signing maybe got the pitching market moving, as someone suggested it would. So far just Lopez and Lynn today, but it's something. Lynn was someone that I thought would be a good signing as a veteran leader, but it makes sense that he'd sign with the Cards.
Would've loved Lynn on that contract.
It also means the famous Lance Lynn gif can return! Everything has come full circle.
worth at least $3m alone in my book
Speaking for pitchers, I was a little annoyed by this comment in the MLBTR post "Looking For a Match In a Dylan Cease Trade":
"while some up-and-coming clubs like the Marlins, Guardians, Tigers, and Pirates have far more pressing needs on their roster that seem likely to take priority over adding a win-soon, front-end arm like Cease."
For one, we have nothing more pressing than acquiring a "front-end arm" to pair with Keller. For two, we should be considered "win-soon". It's probably nothing more than ignorance by a national outlet, but I think we should be considered a near perfect match for a Cease trade. A guy like Cease would not only provide the pitching we need but could serve as a mentor for Keller and Skenes. And we have, supposedly, a top system in value so it should be easy to find prospects that the Sox like.
This is not to say that I think we'll do it because it seems too bold of a move for Cherington. It's easy to say we need to win now, but much harder to spend prospect value to increase the likelihood of that happening.
Yes of course the AUDACITY of a national writer to use the complete and total history of the Pittsburgh Pirates to assume they are unlikely to commit to a type of move they've literally never done.
I’m not sure how close the Bucs actually are to “win soon” mainly because I don’t think management is as serious as we want them to be. This is before we even get to the young graduates that struggled in the show this season. So given all of that, is it any wonder or surprise that an outlet like MLBTR would give the Bucs an afterthought mention like that?
Yeah, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we contend in '24. But they could follow the model that some teams have used recently by acquiring an impact player(s) a year before they expect to contend (Cease is under contract through '25).
Per fangraphs rankings their farm is ranked 9th best, with a value of 204M.
If you want Cease, they will probably need to include Termarr, + one of Bubba or Jones, maybe both and a Peguero.
That's obscene - trading away the future for a maybe washed up pitcher.
Back in August, Kiley had us 3rd but I don't how many prospects he was including that have now graduated.
In any case, yes, it would be a steep price. But either that pays off because he helps us contend, or we move him at the '25 deadline to recover some of that cost.
Judging from that list, he had Endy in the top 40 and he’s graduated so it’s likely lower than that. In any event, a bunch of analysts have said the minors in terms of prospects has hit a bit of a downturn. Maybe that’s legit; super duper prospects don’t say in a system long because they usually are flying through in the express lane. Anyway, a top 5 system now doesn’t mean the same as a top 5 system 4-5 years ago.
As for trading for Cease? I’m down. I’m not sure what he’d cost or what the Sox are interested in. The trade for Bummer makes me think they’re more interested in guys close to the majors or recent grads. I’d have no qualms offering Hank as part of that package, but there’s gotta be a good bit more going the other way.
Would you trade Davis, Jones, Peguero for Cease?
Jesus, in a heartbeat.
I’d be pretty tempted to, yeah. Personally, I’d rather that third piece be something other than Peguro cause I think he could be pretty good. But I’d have no issue with the first two being the part of the package.
This would never happen, but if I’m Ben, I’d also to persuade the Sox make Eloy part of the return to maybe drive the prospect cost down a bit. He’s locked in this year, but the two years after are club option years.
This attachment is the latest...
https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/farm-system-rankings
And that's before Quinn gets adjusted down, can't imagine how somebody could justify him at 50 FV and still ranked in the Top 100.
Yeah, I know FG has us 9th; I was just offering another ranking though when Kiley/ESPN update their rankings we might be lower if the August ranking included players like Davis (and evidently that will be the case given Arky's post). However, when we're thinking of value we have to trade, players like Davis, Peguero, Bae, Gonzales, Mlod, ... should be considered too. We have lots of young talent to make a deal like this, if/when we're ready to contend.
Just speaking as a fan that wants a greater sense of urgency from this FO as we watch teams have much quicker rebuilds than the track we're on.
Im now manifesting both cease and erod to add to keller as a real rotation top 3
Saw the Braves non-tendered our friend Angel Perdomo
Sign Montgomery -pay him the money. Sign Snell -pay him the money. Never gonna happen, just like winning is never gonna happen. The Pirates are the pauper (Thanks Nutting) in a world of the wealthy.
Bob laughs at your “pay him” idea and calls it a silly thing. Now go away or he will taunt you a second time.
I don't know that I would love snell for the money he would command, his very short outings and erratic control make me question how he is going to age
Given that they are NOT going to sign him this point is mute, BUT do you really believe they should not sign him if they could. He's incrementally better than anyone they have.