Thinking outside the box a little... Is it possible Frazier might be a candidate for the lefty side of a RF platoon? He'd be a better defensive fit in the outfield than 2b - the small RF at PNC helps with that - and he certainly wouldn't be blocking any future "stars" from the system.
Adam Frazier was a positive-value defender at second for three teams over fives years until remarkably losing *15* runs worth of range upon joining the Orioles last year.
Either we shouldn't isolate single-year defensive metrics (ding ding ding) or the outfield would seem to be the absolute worst place for a guy with one of the worst arms in baseball who apparently just completely lost his defensive range.
Valid point about the volatility of single-year defensive metrics. Didn't mean to come off as lobbying for bringing back Frazier as a RF option. Just grasping at straws trying to see what GMBC (allegedly) might be seeing if he's actually considering it.
I have absolutely zero interest in bringing back Adam Frazier. There is no upside. He is what he is. If the Pirates are going to have a playoff caliber team in 2024-2026, Adam Frazier will not be a part of it. It has to come from Peguero, Gonzales, Bae, Cheng, etc.
Don't forget Jared Triolo - his contributions defensively - 309 innings at 3B with a .973 fld %age, 87 innings at 2B with a 1.000 fld %age, and 52 innings at 1B with a 1.000 fld %age was part of the glue that held it all together. His defense was a major part of his 1.7 fWAR in 2023. Looking forward to him getting relief action at all 4 of the infield positions in 2024.
Totally agree. A truly pointless move, given the Pirates’ depth at the position, and especially because I think 2023 was his last gasp as a productive player.
I’m not advocating for Frazier in any way. But let’s not act like signing him is blocking Chase Utley. Bae/Peguro/Gonzales (the three most likely candidates to get reps at second) put up a stellar -0.4 WAR over 700 plate appearances in 2023. If any of those three had showed something substantial in their playing time, Frazier wouldn’t even be a discussion point.
If there is money left under Bob's old mattress, I would prefer them to spend it on another sp or a legit starting outfielder. We have plenty of infield options that could come close or exceed what Frazier can do.
I see it more as if the Pirates are going to be a serious division winner or even to get a wildcard spot I could go with Frazier as a temp but that's not the case. So I think it's pointless not to give Bae/Peguro/Gonzales especially Peguero and Gonzales another bite of the apple. They have way more upside potentially then Frazier did at their age.
True, he or Peggy is the best candidate to succeed at second. Triolo had some serious batted ball luck though, so I’m not entirely sold on the bat. I like the glove a lot though, and lord knows this team needs defensive help.
I keep looking for an announcement of the signing but all I keep seeing how there are multiple teams “interested” in Yariel Rodriguez…… One article saying 3 quarters of the league is interested would be,more efficient but more clicks available on more articles
The only way Frazier would make sense is if a couple of Bae, Peguero, and Gonzales are being considered as part of a trade for a starting pitcher. Frazier would then provide necessary depth until Cheng or Johnson is ready.
The quote I think is most interesting from that Cherington interview is
“There are things we can do right now, things we could say yes to that we have not said yes to because we don’t yet like the deal. We’re gonna keep hunting opportunities … primarily both in the rotation and in the position player group just to continue to hopefully push our upside higher for 2024.”
He's just like most of us, has his eye on something but wants a better deal. Of course that risks losing out on what you really want. My only question is whether waiting for the better deal is about saving money or holding on to certain prospects. If the former, it's nice to sometimes say this is what I want and I can live with spending a bit more. If the latter, then it may be wise to wait.
Did Cherington actually say “hopefully?” An actual GM trying to improve the team would be more positive than “hoping” he can improve the team. All we can do is hope, but he has the power to actually do it. Sounds like he’s just hedging his bets again. He’s waiting for the clearance sales. What do you get at a clearance sale? He’s shown that he’s good at picking up things no one else wants. Buy his BS if you like, but I’ll believe it when and if I see it. I “hope” I do, but he has very little credibility with me until he actually does something to improve the team.
As far as Frazier is concerned, this team has taken several steps backward already and there’s no need to add Frazier to that list.
Every GM hopes. About a dozen were hoping on Yamamoto, Otahni, and a slew of others on both the trade market and FA. Just about every GM is hoping to acquire Cease but with what the Sox are supposedly demanding, almost none of them like that deal. Saying he is hoping does not bother me in the least because it is a realistic statement that every GM would say.
The numbers for Perez in 2022 - 32 Starts, 12-8, 2.89 ERA, 7.75/3.16 K/BB/9. His Cutter that year was a +13 Run Value, and all of his 5 pitches together amounted to a +22. In 2021 his Cutter was a -11 Run Value, and in 2023 it was a -13 Run Value. I certainly hope it is an "every other year" type thing and the Cutter will be a + Run Value pitch in 2024. His Sinker which he threw 42.9% has been a consistently plus run value pitch the last 3 years. Last year the 4 Seamer and Curve were also plus run value pitches but both added together amount to less than 7% usage.
Adam Frazier’s bat is definitely worthy of a major league contract. His glove isn’t. Considering the Pirates brought in two ground ball SP’s, it doesn’t make much sense to me to spend money on another infielder who makes team defense worse. A Tellez/Frazier pairing very well might be the worst right side of the diamond defense in MLB.
This is like an early morning blood pressure test! AF made $8 mil last year. Fangraphs had him as a +0.3 fWAR, good for less than half of his salary. His Def was -10.9, and his wRC+ was less than average at 93. Last year the Pirates finished with Liover Peguero and Jared Triolo sharing PT at 2B - Triolo was a +1.7 fWAR, and Peguero was a 0.0 fWAR, and both were on the plus side defensively.
Fraizer left two years ago and should remain gone - this team has too many better players at 2B. Not the time to go backwards.
I don't get it. They have Peggy and Triolo. If there's an injury, they can call up NG. Ride with the young dudes and sink the dollars into more pitching.
Their philosophy is to create mediocre and multi-positional depth and block the guys they trade for/draft. This also permits them to spread the money around. Heaven forbid they pay a guy $15 MM a year. So Frazier is perfect.
We were both on the same wavelength at the same time. With regards to NG, I think going into ST the Pirates are hoping to see big production from NG to help his trade value. TJ is moving fast - if it continues that way, his bat will not be held back.
Thinking outside the box a little... Is it possible Frazier might be a candidate for the lefty side of a RF platoon? He'd be a better defensive fit in the outfield than 2b - the small RF at PNC helps with that - and he certainly wouldn't be blocking any future "stars" from the system.
Adam Frazier was a positive-value defender at second for three teams over fives years until remarkably losing *15* runs worth of range upon joining the Orioles last year.
Either we shouldn't isolate single-year defensive metrics (ding ding ding) or the outfield would seem to be the absolute worst place for a guy with one of the worst arms in baseball who apparently just completely lost his defensive range.
When I saw that runs stats, I wondered how much the shift ban impacted it.
Valid point about the volatility of single-year defensive metrics. Didn't mean to come off as lobbying for bringing back Frazier as a RF option. Just grasping at straws trying to see what GMBC (allegedly) might be seeing if he's actually considering it.
Not at all buddy, good post!
This is just the Holiday lull in order for mlbtr to get some clicks. Signing Frazier is not even on the radar at Federal Street!
agreed - BC said they are looking to add one guy so if you look at what we need, a centerfielder is much higher on the list than second base
$15MM for Isiah Kiner-Falefa
If that is what Frazier costs then we have all wasted our morning talking about this
I’d bet money AF hits RHP better next year than any of our young IFs. I’ll give ya on the defense and LHPs.
sources say Keller to the Cubs for Ian Happ to play second base
You STOP IT!
It all depends on the caliber of pitching that can come back for Peguero, Nick, Triolo, Bae
I have absolutely zero interest in bringing back Adam Frazier. There is no upside. He is what he is. If the Pirates are going to have a playoff caliber team in 2024-2026, Adam Frazier will not be a part of it. It has to come from Peguero, Gonzales, Bae, Cheng, etc.
I have a simple test. Is the player an upgrade? If not, then no. Frazier is not.
What about that approach is too much for this FO to handle?
Don't forget Jared Triolo - his contributions defensively - 309 innings at 3B with a .973 fld %age, 87 innings at 2B with a 1.000 fld %age, and 52 innings at 1B with a 1.000 fld %age was part of the glue that held it all together. His defense was a major part of his 1.7 fWAR in 2023. Looking forward to him getting relief action at all 4 of the infield positions in 2024.
Totally agree. A truly pointless move, given the Pirates’ depth at the position, and especially because I think 2023 was his last gasp as a productive player.
Yep. His upside is a 1-2 WAR guy. More likely, he is a 0-1 WAR guy. Can't have him blocking actual prospects.
I’m not advocating for Frazier in any way. But let’s not act like signing him is blocking Chase Utley. Bae/Peguro/Gonzales (the three most likely candidates to get reps at second) put up a stellar -0.4 WAR over 700 plate appearances in 2023. If any of those three had showed something substantial in their playing time, Frazier wouldn’t even be a discussion point.
If there is money left under Bob's old mattress, I would prefer them to spend it on another sp or a legit starting outfielder. We have plenty of infield options that could come close or exceed what Frazier can do.
Like I said, I’m not advocating for them to sign Frazier. But the optimism over the internal options is probably too strong.
I see it more as if the Pirates are going to be a serious division winner or even to get a wildcard spot I could go with Frazier as a temp but that's not the case. So I think it's pointless not to give Bae/Peguro/Gonzales especially Peguero and Gonzales another bite of the apple. They have way more upside potentially then Frazier did at their age.
You left out Triolo who is most likely of everyone, including Frazier, to exceed 2.0 WAR.
True, he or Peggy is the best candidate to succeed at second. Triolo had some serious batted ball luck though, so I’m not entirely sold on the bat. I like the glove a lot though, and lord knows this team needs defensive help.
Unrelated: i had a super realistic dream that we got that pitcher from cuba, so im fully expecting that to be announced today
Also, hell no to frazier
I keep looking for an announcement of the signing but all I keep seeing how there are multiple teams “interested” in Yariel Rodriguez…… One article saying 3 quarters of the league is interested would be,more efficient but more clicks available on more articles
Me and you have very different dreams!!!!
You get a Harrumph! from this guy!
The only way Frazier would make sense is if a couple of Bae, Peguero, and Gonzales are being considered as part of a trade for a starting pitcher. Frazier would then provide necessary depth until Cheng or Johnson is ready.
The quote I think is most interesting from that Cherington interview is
“There are things we can do right now, things we could say yes to that we have not said yes to because we don’t yet like the deal. We’re gonna keep hunting opportunities … primarily both in the rotation and in the position player group just to continue to hopefully push our upside higher for 2024.”
He's just like most of us, has his eye on something but wants a better deal. Of course that risks losing out on what you really want. My only question is whether waiting for the better deal is about saving money or holding on to certain prospects. If the former, it's nice to sometimes say this is what I want and I can live with spending a bit more. If the latter, then it may be wise to wait.
Jones/Harrington/Ashcraft should be the highest caliber prospect he is willing to give up
No to Skenes, Termarr, Solo, nor Bubba
Also Bae/Nick/Peguero/Holderman should be the highest calibar player on the MLB roster
No to Triolo nor Jack nor Moreta
Did Cherington actually say “hopefully?” An actual GM trying to improve the team would be more positive than “hoping” he can improve the team. All we can do is hope, but he has the power to actually do it. Sounds like he’s just hedging his bets again. He’s waiting for the clearance sales. What do you get at a clearance sale? He’s shown that he’s good at picking up things no one else wants. Buy his BS if you like, but I’ll believe it when and if I see it. I “hope” I do, but he has very little credibility with me until he actually does something to improve the team.
As far as Frazier is concerned, this team has taken several steps backward already and there’s no need to add Frazier to that list.
Every GM hopes. About a dozen were hoping on Yamamoto, Otahni, and a slew of others on both the trade market and FA. Just about every GM is hoping to acquire Cease but with what the Sox are supposedly demanding, almost none of them like that deal. Saying he is hoping does not bother me in the least because it is a realistic statement that every GM would say.
7 words for Frazier - Thanks for the memories - No thank you!
The numbers for Perez in 2022 - 32 Starts, 12-8, 2.89 ERA, 7.75/3.16 K/BB/9. His Cutter that year was a +13 Run Value, and all of his 5 pitches together amounted to a +22. In 2021 his Cutter was a -11 Run Value, and in 2023 it was a -13 Run Value. I certainly hope it is an "every other year" type thing and the Cutter will be a + Run Value pitch in 2024. His Sinker which he threw 42.9% has been a consistently plus run value pitch the last 3 years. Last year the 4 Seamer and Curve were also plus run value pitches but both added together amount to less than 7% usage.
Adam Frazier’s bat is definitely worthy of a major league contract. His glove isn’t. Considering the Pirates brought in two ground ball SP’s, it doesn’t make much sense to me to spend money on another infielder who makes team defense worse. A Tellez/Frazier pairing very well might be the worst right side of the diamond defense in MLB.
All of this is true, which is exactly why the Pirates are likely to bring back Frazier.
This is like an early morning blood pressure test! AF made $8 mil last year. Fangraphs had him as a +0.3 fWAR, good for less than half of his salary. His Def was -10.9, and his wRC+ was less than average at 93. Last year the Pirates finished with Liover Peguero and Jared Triolo sharing PT at 2B - Triolo was a +1.7 fWAR, and Peguero was a 0.0 fWAR, and both were on the plus side defensively.
Fraizer left two years ago and should remain gone - this team has too many better players at 2B. Not the time to go backwards.
I don't get it. They have Peggy and Triolo. If there's an injury, they can call up NG. Ride with the young dudes and sink the dollars into more pitching.
Their philosophy is to create mediocre and multi-positional depth and block the guys they trade for/draft. This also permits them to spread the money around. Heaven forbid they pay a guy $15 MM a year. So Frazier is perfect.
We were both on the same wavelength at the same time. With regards to NG, I think going into ST the Pirates are hoping to see big production from NG to help his trade value. TJ is moving fast - if it continues that way, his bat will not be held back.
Seems pretty obvious to me, too.