Pirates trade Ortiz, Michael Kennedy and Hartle for Horwitz. I kinda like it, looks like Cleveland is ok with Brito at second for the time being. Reynolds might be the short side platoon at firstbase, when Horwitz needs a day off against a tough lefty.
I also think this trade puts an end to the Reynolds to 1B scenario assuming Horowitz is what the Pirates are expecting. My guess is the Pirates keep BRey in the OF until Cutch retires and then make him their full time DH
Yep, move Reynolds to right field, Horwitz at first. Hopefully with more plate appearances against lefties Horwitz will improve. Triolo can fill in against lefties when Horwitz needs a day off.
With this trade they leave a hole in the rotation. I’m assuming they pick up a veteran starter now. I would love a power hitting corner outfielder, 2 relievers and a starter.
I’m a little surprised they gave up 3 young arms for a guy who has had half a good season in the majors. Maybe his arrow is up but being in Canada, Jay fans always talked about Horowitz as an extra piece guy. Not good enough to start but a nice guy to have around. We will see
I like the acquisition (... recall I lobbied for it)... but I think they overpaid pretty dramatically. Ortiz for Horwitz straight up would have been a slight overpay. 2 prospects on top is not a good bargain at all.
I think, purely on a talent level, it was an overpay, but that's inherent in trading pitchers, especially young ones, for a hitter. Teams know perfectly well that they're riskier. Which is a damaging side effect of this FO's incompetence in scouting and developing hitters.
Not that badly. Horwitz can hit. I saw him a couple times last year when the Blue Jays were playing the Royals. Very smooth swing, he drives the ball to all fields, and has some legitimate power pull side. Good defensive 1Bman too.... also strikes me as an intense guy... highly competitive. I like him.
It's funny. I think in every OOTPB game that I have played dating back to 2022, I have signed Alvarado to a split contract at some point, and he has been exactly as you describe: a good flyer, sometimes providing several seasons of solid middle relief and or even setup and sometimes being a complete bust.
This is how he should be trying to fill out his bullpen and acquire depth... on the cheap... instead of paying out 4 million here and 3 million there to depth guys or 3rd tier AAAA players. Use what money he does have to acquire 1 real player.
It requires such patience being a Pirates fan (quote from Ben as reported at DK Sports):
"Feels like free agency is something that probably, for us, is going to play out over a longer period of time, even past the holidays," he added. "We'll see."
In terms of the draft, is there a clear cut number one prospect like Skenes (not saying they would be on Skenes level but just if someone has separated themselves from the pack like Skenes did)?
Not to that extent. The last guy I think of in terms of wire-to-wire #1 was Adley. Most of the outlets had Skenes as a mid 1st round talent at this time in 2022.
I Googled it and Nolan Ryan may have been the first, with Parker just missing (from SI):
"The anger directed at him grew in Jan. 1979, coming off a second straight batting title and the MVP award, Parker signed a five-year contract that paid him just under $1 million per year, making him the highest paid player in baseball. (Ten months later, Nolan Ryan would break the $1 million barrier when he signed as a free agent with the Astros.)"
In any case, can you imagine/remember the Pirates having the highest paid player? Different times.
I believe the Pirates had the highest payroll in baseball in 1992. Granted they were losing money and were forced to cut payroll shortly after, but it was possible to compete in those days. Now if they tried it they would be bankrupt in a year.
No doubt greed has played a role in the state of the game. But I’d imagine some of this is just how much the industry changed though. Back in 1991 a team’s primary revenue driver was its gate receipts. Now teams have so many more large sources of revenue. You have the explosion of ballpark villages, where teams own the areas around the park. A local example: the Pirates sell cocktails made with whiskey owned by the owner. Teams are increasingly pushing out obnoxious, high margin concession items like the $30 some dollar boomstick at Globe Life Field. TV deals are much larger. Premium seating options have exploded. I don’t have access to this type of data, but I’d imagine adjusted for inflation, that the gap between the most expensive and cheapest seats at the game has exploded. The amount and variety of team licensed merchandise is massive today. And the benefits of all this pocket picking has mostly accrued to the larger markets due to coastal population and income inequality factors. Do you think the Yankees have taken a hit on YES the way Pirates and others did on their TV deal? Guessing no.
I don't understand why Cherington is not in politics. He has a gift for saying a lot of nothing and keeping his job past the appropriate expiration date. Shelton is an expert schmoozer and it shows on these interviews as well.
Surprised to hear Key is doing full baseball activities on Dec. 9. Based on other prof athletes, he should NOT be doing full baseball activities until mid/late Jan. Rest and rehab should be the RX. Wonder why trainers and BC are pushing it?
Word smithing some, but it said all baseball activities not full baseball activities. I hope per your comment that 'all' current activities might be less than full which I don't expect until spring training. Maybe 'all' fits nicely into his rehab efforts? At least that is what I hope as I agree with. your premise.
I can't imagine him taking BP in the cage in Nov/Dec. Why? Just no reason. The torque on the back is too great. They shut him down on Aug. 19 for a reason.... Give him some extended time off FFS.
Just a thought. But I feel that it would be beneficial (if he was willing) for BMac to go to the winter meetings and report back to us on BoD from his sources and another others he stumbles across in his travels. Start a go fund me now for next year. Don't think that's what Go Fund Me was made for so we can have Go Fund Mac. Not sure where next years is or where B lives (for some reason I think Mexico or he has Mexican dogs) but I think we could make it happen if the logistics are good. Just wanted to throw that out there like a Zito curve.
Sounds like a lot of things have to go right for this team to be competitive. Hopefully, there are several irons on the fire. Not sure why everyone is so enamored with moving Reynolds to 1B. Any substantial acquisition will likely be at the expense of pitching and/or prospect depth. Their main objective should be bringing in a middle of the order bat with control or a younger less experienced bat with upside. Whether that is an OF or 1B should be irrelevant, get the best bat you can, all other things being equal. I’m of the opinion that transitioning from OF to IF will be a lot harder than most expect or anticipate. A legit 1B allows you to keep Reynolds in the OF, while also resigning Cutch at substantial discount, not to mention keeps a roster spot open.
I’m just mitigating against a failed experiment without creating potential roster issues. How bad can the defense be before it severely affects his overall value at first opposed to LF/RF?
I think that's a great perspective to take, honestly.
There wasn't a single first baseman that gave back more value than Reynolds did in the OF last year when factoring positional adjustment, so at a very very dumb level just not being the worst first baseman in the game probably makes the value question a wash at worst.
Insert “it’s a trap!” gif. The more likely scenario is trying to pry an O’Hearn/Wade/Yandy type than anything more substantial. Which, I’m fine with in theory…those guys are legitimately decent offensively. I’m not convinced any splashy move at 1B moves the needle as much as we’d think.
I'm being repetitive but that's why I would target a guy like Brito. He has some of the same traits hitting wise to Reynolds in the minors albeit at a younger age. Has questionable defense at the other infield positions do to range and arm but has decent hands.
Reynolds
Age 22 312/364/462 826 A+
23 302/381/438 819 AA
24 367/447/735 1.181 AAA
Brito
Age 20 286/407/470 877 A
21 276/383/444 817 AA
22 256/365/443 807 AAA
Reynolds homeruns by age
22) 10 23) 7 24) 5
Brito homeruns by age
20) 11 21) 10 22) 21
Reynolds age 24 was a small sample at AAA because he never looked back once promoted. Brito on the other hand had 21 homeruns in AAA at the same age Reynolds was in A+ ball.
The pirates should be able to get Brito at a reasonable cost, he's blocked in Cleveland.
Good from both, more power from the left but the right side increased in '24. His batting average was down from left in '24 but looks like it was do to bad luck from babip.
Agree with your last sentence wholly. It takes a hell of a player to move the needle at first and we aren’t in on any of those guys. Goal for 2025, assuming they don’t move Reynolds, should be to prevent the position from being a black hole.
4th pick. And they will take a college OF. Ben will cite that he is closer to MLB ready.
Don't really like Bregman from the cheating stuff but any chance we can sign him? Play him at third until you can't then move to first.
For the record since rumors are circulating...I still hold out hope for Shalin Polanco. Don't believe all you here. If he doesn't pay off never sign a Polanco again. Or a one l Wil.
Damn guinea hens woke the chaps up way too early. Woke up to them running around looking for the elf on the shelf.
Have a great day. Anyone know anything about slip covers?
MLBTR has Bregman at 7/$182 million. If anything their predictions are a bit light so far, so I wouldn’t be stunned to see him over $200 million. The MLBTR figure is about $26 million per year, and I don’t think there’s any way we’d do an AAV that high.
1. He adds Milwaukee as a model organization, instead of only the more frequently cited examples of Tampa and Cleveland.
2. He acknowledges what is so hard about trading top prospects and seems more willing to do so, which is a challenge for someone who is risk-averse (which I think Cherington is). If we trade one of our top three, it will hurt. But we need to take advantage of winning that lottery for Paul. Maybe we can bring back an impact player by trading outside of our top 3, but I'm skeptical.
Is BC risk-averse or unable to act? He's a veteran GM, and I cannot see him being this conservative unless being restricted by ownership. There are teams at the top end who have seemingly unlimited resources, and then there is the bottom half.
Pittsburgh is not last in Team Value which Forbes evaluates each March. The Pirates were at a Team Value of 1.32 Bil as of Mar 2024. Below them are Mia 1.0 Bil, Athletics $1.2 Bil, KC $1.23 Bil, TB $1.25 Bil, and Cincy $1.26 Bil. Above the Pirates are Cle $1.35 Bil, Ariz $1.43 Bil, Det $1.45 Bil, Minn $1.46 Bil, Colo $1.48 Bil, Mil $1.60 Bil, SD $1.78 Bil, and Wash $2.00 Bil. Below and above there are teams that are very active.
In 2012 the Pirates were 28th of 30 teams with a Value of $336 Mil. Then the Playoff Years of 2013, 2014, and 2015 and in Mar 2016 the Pirates Value vaulted them up to #18 of 30 teams and a Value of $975 mil. Since then we have been losing and have dropped 7 places to #25 of 30 teams. DOES WINNING EQUATE TO INCREASED TEAM VALUE?
I don’t think franchise value means squat with the exception of how much leverage can be placed upon the organization in terms of debt and future payroll commitments. And, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is franchise value that is the ultimate determinant but rather the balance sheet.
I think the issue is that it is runs like one. I have zero insider knowledge, but there is obviously something that is holding them back from making long term financial commitments. While I believe Nutting is ultimately to blame regardless of the reason, I would postulate that there is more to the story here.
He’s making money without spending because he can. Making more money means spending more money which is risky. Cuban’s assessment of their business model was spot on.
I got you dog. Mitch Hedberg, Tobias Funke, and George Oscar Bluth. My mind reverts to those far too much. Threw a Mitch slip cover comment in earlier today.
And everything I've ever read about how BN runs the franchise is that he's actively paying down debt, so I doubt very seriously that he would be willing to take any on to increase payroll for any kind of window.
It could be worse, the A's are trying to add enough payroll to qualify for revenue sharing. Problem is, free agents don't want to sign there without large overpays and years. The A's are apparently trying to trade for bad contracts but other teams want the A's top prospects back in return.
The A's are also trying to extend players on their current roster and aren't getting good responses so far with the uncertainty of the new park in Vegas.
CBA requires teams to spend 150% of their revenue sharing amount on payroll. A's are getting around $70 million, so they need to spend around $105 million. They are under $50 million currently.
If they don't spend it, the MLBPA will file a grievance.
Regarding a trade, if there was a team blowing it up, I think we could get a decent bat without giving up the top three. The Athletics sold off their whole team a few years back, getting very few premium prospects back in the process. But, looking around the league, I think we are hurt by the fact that there are so few teams in the beginning stages of a rebuild. And the few teams actively rebuilding, the White Sox and Marlins, don’t have much to offer in terms of offense. I think you’re on the money that you’ll have to give up one the better pitchers for a bat. The league is as competitive as I’ve ever seen right now.
I think the league still needs to recalibrate its approach to the changes though. Not saying teams shouldn’t rebuild and sell off talent in some instances, but ditching players for the sake of ditching them really should end. You look at what the White Sox have done for example, is it really worth it to light any fan goodwill on fire losing 120 to move up a few ticks in the draft odds? To use an example we’re all familiar with: under the new rules would we really want to trade Josh Bell for a AAAA starter and a super long odds lotto ticket? Forcing teams to spend more also comes into play here.
Supposedly the White Sox are still asking a high price on Robert despite his injury history but if the price didn't cost us one of our top 3, I'd be very interested.
There are a few other teams looking to trim payroll and we _should_ have plenty of payroll space, and then there is the model set by the Priester/Yorke trade, which might be our best bet.
Tucker would be great, but with only one year of control remaining it would be extra painful to part with someone like Bubba or Termarr, which is likely what it would take.
Honestly, not sure I see us paying $15 million for the salary. The injury issues only add to why I don’t think we’d be interested.
I agree with you though, a short term band aid on a salary dump might be the best bet. Or a blocked bat as has been discussed like Mauricio, Brito, etc.
The Rays have a bunch of solid players who fit the Bucs beyond Lowe. Fairbanks, Springs, Yandy-Man. Maybe they can pull off some weird MLB The Show deal where you trade a bunch of players below the top tier of prospects for those four!
In the current environment I agree with you. But a couple of recent example, the Yanks got Jazz without giving up their top guys. And the A’s pretty much gave Sean Murphy to the Braves, with the Brewers acting as a middle man collecting Contreras pretty much for free in the process. Looking around the league, I struggle to see a similar trade for us.
The Yanks also could resign Jazz for whatever he wanted. He didn't have to be a rental. Our cheap asses would get some one decent and have to trade him next July. Which I think is our reality while Nutting is the owner. I don't have faith in Ben finding a trade like that for us either.
I understand Bucs. Jazz was a deadline deal. Murphy deal was a 3 way team and that is to difficult for me to understand.. lol. If people think that Ortiz or Falter is bringing us back that big bat, I don’t see it. Maybe if you add T. Johnson to the deal
Actually the Braves DID give up Contreras to get Murphy, just because he ended up in Milwaukee doesn't mean he was not part of the cost to get Murphy. The fact the A's way over valued Ruiz was not a Braves decision.
But that’s not really the point of my comment. The point of my comment is that rebuilding teams are frequently trading good players for diluted returns, as happened with the A’s return for Murphy. If the Braves had Ruiz they would’ve did the deal straight up without Contreras being involved. Dylan Cease is another example, in the pitching realm. The Padres refused to give up their top 4, so the return, which a lot of analysts panned, was diluted amongst the 5, 7 and 8 prospects. Unless you’re trading for someone like Soto, teams are increasingly placing elite prospects off limits. Translated onto our prospect list, that means you’re looking at moving guys like Barco, Brannigan, Ashcraft, etc. Unfortunately, as I stated above, I don’t see a team with a bat we’d be interested in willing to make such a trade.
I get your point but will belabor my point. At some point the A's said to get Murphy we want Contreras to be a part of the trade. If they just STOPPED at that point they would not have a diluted return and it DID cost the Braves (not free) a really good player. The fact the As blew it from there (and fulfilled your comment) does not make Murphy free(many Brave fans regret it and in your scenario the Pirates are the Braves part of the trade). Props to the Brewers (also the Pirates in your scenario) as they did as you suggested. So I'll say for that one Braves part only example (I do get your overall premise), it does not hold.
A few observations on the quotes and I know they keep it high level:
- I am not opposed to IKF at shortstop (IMO a smart player) given other internal options and outside options, but that assumes offense must come from elsewhere and of course big picture I would rather spend the money elsewhere. I wish Peggy could make about a 25% plate improvement in AAA to make him a better alternative for a team trying compete.
- Hayes- where to start. IF IF IF he could return to elite level defense (he was truly elite) then a slightly below league average offense (some combo of '22 and '23) is manageable with the same IKF statement, offense would come from elsewhere. So we have 2 of the 7-9 spots in the batting order claimed. Before I get ripped apart. He was UNPLAYABLE last year and I get confidence in filling those top 1-6 spots is very low. Saying he is fully participating in off season activities says nothing about his ability to play a season. With some level of personal experience, you can feel fine until you don't, then taking a day or two off solves nothing. I am not optimistic as it seem like it is not fixable which means to me as soon as it flairs he can NOT try to play through it. Sit him for at least a month and hope. If there is any good news, the out years in his contract if he is at all playable are looking cheaper and cheaper with every signing which can also make him more tradable (maybe for nothing but to clear $). Honestly if he would not have these back issues(he DOES) the contract looks great.
- Just move Reynolds to first base if they believe (and if the metrics are true) it is inevitable. Quit this dance. Doesn't mean he can't slide to the OF for several years or once every couple of weeks when the need (or injuries) occurs.
The Hayes conundrum is 100% health. If he is healthy he is valuable on D and offense and his contract is a Braves level steal…but backs are tough. I am not counting on him, but if he can put in a healthy season and play ~120 games that could be the big spark this team needs.
Injuries like his require an every day level of work on core and surrounding muscle groups. He's got to be a dog about such a regimen if he wants to play healthy. His body has to be incredibly fit to compensate for what I hope is not a chronic back condition. Hope for the best. He's a good player. Remember when Mario Lemieux couldn't tie his own skates?
Worked in PT for many a year. Planks and hamstring/piriformis stretching. I didn't see what his actual diagnosis was but hope it's something treatable.
And no one in the NHL could tie Mario's skates. And I include gretzky.
BC at least mentioned trades and how they are different, but I could not understand the last sentence "we'll continue to be that way this offseason". I guess he meant carrying that mental approach to being open to trades, because we sure as hell have not done anything yet!
Why not take a run at Anthony Santander? Sure, he has big money folks interested in him, but we should not be taking anything for granted at this point and just the effort is enough to build some recognition that the Pirates of 2025 are doing things differently - it means a lot to the players.
Reading the Alex Stumph article today and the work Reynolds was doing working at 1B down the stretch of 2024, and that Don Kelly has developed a plan for Bryan to use during the off-season to help him become more familiar with work at 1B. Also mentioned that Kelly and Reynolds will get together during the off-season. Good plan, and Kelly played about every position on the field defensively when with Detroit.
Pirates have also signed FA 2B/OF Nick Solak to a MiL deal. He looks similar to Yorke, only not remotely as good.
Pirates trade Ortiz, Michael Kennedy and Hartle for Horwitz. I kinda like it, looks like Cleveland is ok with Brito at second for the time being. Reynolds might be the short side platoon at firstbase, when Horwitz needs a day off against a tough lefty.
its just that Kennedy is left handed and we need those
Horwitz is Nick Yorke v2?
clearly Hague pounding the table
I also think this trade puts an end to the Reynolds to 1B scenario assuming Horowitz is what the Pirates are expecting. My guess is the Pirates keep BRey in the OF until Cutch retires and then make him their full time DH
Yep, move Reynolds to right field, Horwitz at first. Hopefully with more plate appearances against lefties Horwitz will improve. Triolo can fill in against lefties when Horwitz needs a day off.
With this trade they leave a hole in the rotation. I’m assuming they pick up a veteran starter now. I would love a power hitting corner outfielder, 2 relievers and a starter.
Bubba says hold my beer. I’m the next starter
Their hole is in long relief, hopefully Burrows or Ashcraft can claim that spot.
I’m a little surprised they gave up 3 young arms for a guy who has had half a good season in the majors. Maybe his arrow is up but being in Canada, Jay fans always talked about Horowitz as an extra piece guy. Not good enough to start but a nice guy to have around. We will see
Yep, I kinda like it but would have rather got Brito for a try at first. Horwitz is short for a first basemen.
I like the acquisition (... recall I lobbied for it)... but I think they overpaid pretty dramatically. Ortiz for Horwitz straight up would have been a slight overpay. 2 prospects on top is not a good bargain at all.
I think, purely on a talent level, it was an overpay, but that's inherent in trading pitchers, especially young ones, for a hitter. Teams know perfectly well that they're riskier. Which is a damaging side effect of this FO's incompetence in scouting and developing hitters.
Well... at least they are doing something that moves the needle on the team being competitive next season for the first time in a decade.
I agree, especially if Horwitz doesn't start hitting right hand pitchers better.
Agree with the dramatic overpay. Kind of like adding Baz in the Archer deal.
Not that badly. Horwitz can hit. I saw him a couple times last year when the Blue Jays were playing the Royals. Very smooth swing, he drives the ball to all fields, and has some legitimate power pull side. Good defensive 1Bman too.... also strikes me as an intense guy... highly competitive. I like him.
Pirates signed RH reliever Elvis Alvarado to a split deal that gives him a 40-man roster spot.
BC making the big moves.
I like this move too. Is BC actually starting to do things that make some sense?
It's a good flyer.
It's funny. I think in every OOTPB game that I have played dating back to 2022, I have signed Alvarado to a split contract at some point, and he has been exactly as you describe: a good flyer, sometimes providing several seasons of solid middle relief and or even setup and sometimes being a complete bust.
This is how he should be trying to fill out his bullpen and acquire depth... on the cheap... instead of paying out 4 million here and 3 million there to depth guys or 3rd tier AAAA players. Use what money he does have to acquire 1 real player.
I hope they take a high upside reliever in the rule 5. Duran is who I'm hoping for, think a couple of the guys I like better will be gone.
It requires such patience being a Pirates fan (quote from Ben as reported at DK Sports):
"Feels like free agency is something that probably, for us, is going to play out over a longer period of time, even past the holidays," he added. "We'll see."
I guess he still thinks he's fooling people with this BS. It just means they wait to see who can't get a ML deal anywhere else.
Basically we need to see who is leftover and falls into our price range.
Is he talking Easter and Mother's Day?
I see the Guards bailed on Gimenez. If they had listened to NMR and used xwOBA they never sign that deal.
In terms of the draft, is there a clear cut number one prospect like Skenes (not saying they would be on Skenes level but just if someone has separated themselves from the pack like Skenes did)?
In December 2022, there was a clear cut number one prospect but it was Crews not Skenes. So, you never know.
Not to that extent. The last guy I think of in terms of wire-to-wire #1 was Adley. Most of the outlets had Skenes as a mid 1st round talent at this time in 2022.
Don't think so. The prep talent is supposed to predominate in this one.
I thought Holliday's Son Take 2 was on top of a lot of lists. Not saying he will stay there.
So is Jace Laviolette (who has a nickname of “Tubby” via Wikipedia…may be more of those ironic nicknames).
Certainly more up the middle types (prep SS and college CF) than last year. And a big prep arm, supposedly.
He is
I like Eli Willits, assuming we don't get a top 4 pick. That could change greatly in the next 6 months though.
Headline: Roger Clemens Signs Record MLB Contract
It was 1991 and it was worth $5.3 million per year.
Beans.
Ben Cherington is cooking us beans and calling it a feast.
Bob Nutting is sitting is his money vault and furiously rubbing his lucky coin concentrating on winning the lottery.
All this talk about trades.
I'll believe it when Anthony is writing the story with the details.
--------------------------------
"Ickity-Ackity-Ooph.
Oo-Oo-Squeak-Ah-Ah-Ptthhtthh."
-Wabbit
I remember when Dave Parker was the first "million-dollar man". Yeah, we were the big spenders back then.
I thought Dave Winfield was the first to crack $1 million?
I Googled it and Nolan Ryan may have been the first, with Parker just missing (from SI):
"The anger directed at him grew in Jan. 1979, coming off a second straight batting title and the MVP award, Parker signed a five-year contract that paid him just under $1 million per year, making him the highest paid player in baseball. (Ten months later, Nolan Ryan would break the $1 million barrier when he signed as a free agent with the Astros.)"
In any case, can you imagine/remember the Pirates having the highest paid player? Different times.
I'd take Nolan Ryan for $1 mil per year
I believe the Pirates had the highest payroll in baseball in 1992. Granted they were losing money and were forced to cut payroll shortly after, but it was possible to compete in those days. Now if they tried it they would be bankrupt in a year.
that jump to $700mil in 2024 is much more than inflation
is all this extra money because of the patches on the guys shoulders?
the owners were hoarding it all this time?
No doubt greed has played a role in the state of the game. But I’d imagine some of this is just how much the industry changed though. Back in 1991 a team’s primary revenue driver was its gate receipts. Now teams have so many more large sources of revenue. You have the explosion of ballpark villages, where teams own the areas around the park. A local example: the Pirates sell cocktails made with whiskey owned by the owner. Teams are increasingly pushing out obnoxious, high margin concession items like the $30 some dollar boomstick at Globe Life Field. TV deals are much larger. Premium seating options have exploded. I don’t have access to this type of data, but I’d imagine adjusted for inflation, that the gap between the most expensive and cheapest seats at the game has exploded. The amount and variety of team licensed merchandise is massive today. And the benefits of all this pocket picking has mostly accrued to the larger markets due to coastal population and income inequality factors. Do you think the Yankees have taken a hit on YES the way Pirates and others did on their TV deal? Guessing no.
i didnt know wilge was owned by nutting
Yeah he bought it two years ago. That’s why they had Wigle booth at Piratesfest last year.
And now they have a restaurant underneath PNC Park.
its everywhere in pnc park
wondering if he´d be in interested in my baseball cards...
I don't understand why Cherington is not in politics. He has a gift for saying a lot of nothing and keeping his job past the appropriate expiration date. Shelton is an expert schmoozer and it shows on these interviews as well.
Today is the day for BC to employ his one demonstrated skill.
So now what does he fall back on?
I bet he comes to the lottery and says “who’s ready to finish second?”
Apologies for being obtuse…but are we referring to winning the lottery?
Yep
Is it possible to cheat at Bingo?
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forums/gambling/is-it-possible-to-cheat-at-bingo/page/1/
Surprised to hear Key is doing full baseball activities on Dec. 9. Based on other prof athletes, he should NOT be doing full baseball activities until mid/late Jan. Rest and rehab should be the RX. Wonder why trainers and BC are pushing it?
It's probably part of his new back doctors protocol. Having him do activities that he'll be doing to see if they need to tweak therapies.
I suppose, since the back is a trial-and-error type of fix sometimes. But he hopefully is past trial and error and they know what the problem(s) are.
Yep, the new doctor started working with him in September I think. They might be in the middle of trial and error after extended rest.
Word smithing some, but it said all baseball activities not full baseball activities. I hope per your comment that 'all' current activities might be less than full which I don't expect until spring training. Maybe 'all' fits nicely into his rehab efforts? At least that is what I hope as I agree with. your premise.
I can't imagine him taking BP in the cage in Nov/Dec. Why? Just no reason. The torque on the back is too great. They shut him down on Aug. 19 for a reason.... Give him some extended time off FFS.
If I can’t trade my worst players for their best ones I’m not doing it.
Just a thought. But I feel that it would be beneficial (if he was willing) for BMac to go to the winter meetings and report back to us on BoD from his sources and another others he stumbles across in his travels. Start a go fund me now for next year. Don't think that's what Go Fund Me was made for so we can have Go Fund Mac. Not sure where next years is or where B lives (for some reason I think Mexico or he has Mexican dogs) but I think we could make it happen if the logistics are good. Just wanted to throw that out there like a Zito curve.
was there in Nashville in 1998 and in Anaheim in 1999
Sounds like a lot of things have to go right for this team to be competitive. Hopefully, there are several irons on the fire. Not sure why everyone is so enamored with moving Reynolds to 1B. Any substantial acquisition will likely be at the expense of pitching and/or prospect depth. Their main objective should be bringing in a middle of the order bat with control or a younger less experienced bat with upside. Whether that is an OF or 1B should be irrelevant, get the best bat you can, all other things being equal. I’m of the opinion that transitioning from OF to IF will be a lot harder than most expect or anticipate. A legit 1B allows you to keep Reynolds in the OF, while also resigning Cutch at substantial discount, not to mention keeps a roster spot open.
I'm psychologically with you but first base is such a trap, man. The player type you seek is extremely rare.
I’m just mitigating against a failed experiment without creating potential roster issues. How bad can the defense be before it severely affects his overall value at first opposed to LF/RF?
I'd give him a full season in right field before moving him to first on a permanent basis.
I think that's a great perspective to take, honestly.
There wasn't a single first baseman that gave back more value than Reynolds did in the OF last year when factoring positional adjustment, so at a very very dumb level just not being the worst first baseman in the game probably makes the value question a wash at worst.
Insert “it’s a trap!” gif. The more likely scenario is trying to pry an O’Hearn/Wade/Yandy type than anything more substantial. Which, I’m fine with in theory…those guys are legitimately decent offensively. I’m not convinced any splashy move at 1B moves the needle as much as we’d think.
I'm being repetitive but that's why I would target a guy like Brito. He has some of the same traits hitting wise to Reynolds in the minors albeit at a younger age. Has questionable defense at the other infield positions do to range and arm but has decent hands.
Reynolds
Age 22 312/364/462 826 A+
23 302/381/438 819 AA
24 367/447/735 1.181 AAA
Brito
Age 20 286/407/470 877 A
21 276/383/444 817 AA
22 256/365/443 807 AAA
Reynolds homeruns by age
22) 10 23) 7 24) 5
Brito homeruns by age
20) 11 21) 10 22) 21
Reynolds age 24 was a small sample at AAA because he never looked back once promoted. Brito on the other hand had 21 homeruns in AAA at the same age Reynolds was in A+ ball.
The pirates should be able to get Brito at a reasonable cost, he's blocked in Cleveland.
Any idea of what type of switch hitter Brito is? Solid from both sides?
Good from both, more power from the left but the right side increased in '24. His batting average was down from left in '24 but looks like it was do to bad luck from babip.
Agree with your last sentence wholly. It takes a hell of a player to move the needle at first and we aren’t in on any of those guys. Goal for 2025, assuming they don’t move Reynolds, should be to prevent the position from being a black hole.
4th pick. And they will take a college OF. Ben will cite that he is closer to MLB ready.
Don't really like Bregman from the cheating stuff but any chance we can sign him? Play him at third until you can't then move to first.
For the record since rumors are circulating...I still hold out hope for Shalin Polanco. Don't believe all you here. If he doesn't pay off never sign a Polanco again. Or a one l Wil.
Damn guinea hens woke the chaps up way too early. Woke up to them running around looking for the elf on the shelf.
Have a great day. Anyone know anything about slip covers?
MLBTR has Bregman at 7/$182 million. If anything their predictions are a bit light so far, so I wouldn’t be stunned to see him over $200 million. The MLBTR figure is about $26 million per year, and I don’t think there’s any way we’d do an AAV that high.
Thanks. Didn't want that cheater anyway.
I like that Cherington quote for two reasons:
1. He adds Milwaukee as a model organization, instead of only the more frequently cited examples of Tampa and Cleveland.
2. He acknowledges what is so hard about trading top prospects and seems more willing to do so, which is a challenge for someone who is risk-averse (which I think Cherington is). If we trade one of our top three, it will hurt. But we need to take advantage of winning that lottery for Paul. Maybe we can bring back an impact player by trading outside of our top 3, but I'm skeptical.
Is BC risk-averse or unable to act? He's a veteran GM, and I cannot see him being this conservative unless being restricted by ownership. There are teams at the top end who have seemingly unlimited resources, and then there is the bottom half.
Pittsburgh is not last in Team Value which Forbes evaluates each March. The Pirates were at a Team Value of 1.32 Bil as of Mar 2024. Below them are Mia 1.0 Bil, Athletics $1.2 Bil, KC $1.23 Bil, TB $1.25 Bil, and Cincy $1.26 Bil. Above the Pirates are Cle $1.35 Bil, Ariz $1.43 Bil, Det $1.45 Bil, Minn $1.46 Bil, Colo $1.48 Bil, Mil $1.60 Bil, SD $1.78 Bil, and Wash $2.00 Bil. Below and above there are teams that are very active.
In 2012 the Pirates were 28th of 30 teams with a Value of $336 Mil. Then the Playoff Years of 2013, 2014, and 2015 and in Mar 2016 the Pirates Value vaulted them up to #18 of 30 teams and a Value of $975 mil. Since then we have been losing and have dropped 7 places to #25 of 30 teams. DOES WINNING EQUATE TO INCREASED TEAM VALUE?
I don’t think franchise value means squat with the exception of how much leverage can be placed upon the organization in terms of debt and future payroll commitments. And, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is franchise value that is the ultimate determinant but rather the balance sheet.
I mean, yeah.
Leveraging company value as means of investing in your product and increasing revenue is precisely how businesses operate.
This isn't a fuckin banana stand.
I think the issue is that it is runs like one. I have zero insider knowledge, but there is obviously something that is holding them back from making long term financial commitments. While I believe Nutting is ultimately to blame regardless of the reason, I would postulate that there is more to the story here.
He’s making money without spending because he can. Making more money means spending more money which is risky. Cuban’s assessment of their business model was spot on.
It has to be more nuanced than that
The money is in the banana stand.
that reference was my only reason for making the comment thank you very much for acknowledging my bullshit.
I got you dog. Mitch Hedberg, Tobias Funke, and George Oscar Bluth. My mind reverts to those far too much. Threw a Mitch slip cover comment in earlier today.
Time to go to my blue man group meeting.
Bananas are art now, huge deductions on investment especially if you eat it. Just need that letter of authenticity.
And everything I've ever read about how BN runs the franchise is that he's actively paying down debt, so I doubt very seriously that he would be willing to take any on to increase payroll for any kind of window.
It could be worse, the A's are trying to add enough payroll to qualify for revenue sharing. Problem is, free agents don't want to sign there without large overpays and years. The A's are apparently trying to trade for bad contracts but other teams want the A's top prospects back in return.
The A's are also trying to extend players on their current roster and aren't getting good responses so far with the uncertainty of the new park in Vegas.
They're lucky they got Severino to sign early.
Such a shame. Leads one to think that there might be actual consequences for shafting both fans and players.
I didn't know teams needed to spend to qualify for revenue sharing. How does that work?
CBA requires teams to spend 150% of their revenue sharing amount on payroll. A's are getting around $70 million, so they need to spend around $105 million. They are under $50 million currently.
If they don't spend it, the MLBPA will file a grievance.
Just felt rage as I read this and thought of his dumb ass transition glasses.
This is called rent seeking.
Extracting maximum value while adding none.
Regarding a trade, if there was a team blowing it up, I think we could get a decent bat without giving up the top three. The Athletics sold off their whole team a few years back, getting very few premium prospects back in the process. But, looking around the league, I think we are hurt by the fact that there are so few teams in the beginning stages of a rebuild. And the few teams actively rebuilding, the White Sox and Marlins, don’t have much to offer in terms of offense. I think you’re on the money that you’ll have to give up one the better pitchers for a bat. The league is as competitive as I’ve ever seen right now.
Kudos are due for the league quashing the era of huge teardowns, honestly.
I think the league still needs to recalibrate its approach to the changes though. Not saying teams shouldn’t rebuild and sell off talent in some instances, but ditching players for the sake of ditching them really should end. You look at what the White Sox have done for example, is it really worth it to light any fan goodwill on fire losing 120 to move up a few ticks in the draft odds? To use an example we’re all familiar with: under the new rules would we really want to trade Josh Bell for a AAAA starter and a super long odds lotto ticket? Forcing teams to spend more also comes into play here.
Supposedly the White Sox are still asking a high price on Robert despite his injury history but if the price didn't cost us one of our top 3, I'd be very interested.
There are a few other teams looking to trim payroll and we _should_ have plenty of payroll space, and then there is the model set by the Priester/Yorke trade, which might be our best bet.
Kyle Tucker.
The play was to get Kyle Tucker for Cole. But that was in NH’s quantity is better than quality phase. Now it’s too late.
And if Tucker wasn’t available for Cole then you don’t make the trade.
Tucker would be great, but with only one year of control remaining it would be extra painful to part with someone like Bubba or Termarr, which is likely what it would take.
Honestly, not sure I see us paying $15 million for the salary. The injury issues only add to why I don’t think we’d be interested.
I agree with you though, a short term band aid on a salary dump might be the best bet. Or a blocked bat as has been discussed like Mauricio, Brito, etc.
If I’m going to roll the dice on an injury prone player who makes 10 mil, I’d rather trade for Lowe.
I agree I’d much prefer Lowe.
The Rays have a bunch of solid players who fit the Bucs beyond Lowe. Fairbanks, Springs, Yandy-Man. Maybe they can pull off some weird MLB The Show deal where you trade a bunch of players below the top tier of prospects for those four!
To get a real bat, you must give up a real pitcher.. You must give up talent to receive talent
So Bae and Falter wouldn't land us a new clean up hitter to hit 34 HR?
I wish!!!
In the current environment I agree with you. But a couple of recent example, the Yanks got Jazz without giving up their top guys. And the A’s pretty much gave Sean Murphy to the Braves, with the Brewers acting as a middle man collecting Contreras pretty much for free in the process. Looking around the league, I struggle to see a similar trade for us.
The Yanks also could resign Jazz for whatever he wanted. He didn't have to be a rental. Our cheap asses would get some one decent and have to trade him next July. Which I think is our reality while Nutting is the owner. I don't have faith in Ben finding a trade like that for us either.
I understand Bucs. Jazz was a deadline deal. Murphy deal was a 3 way team and that is to difficult for me to understand.. lol. If people think that Ortiz or Falter is bringing us back that big bat, I don’t see it. Maybe if you add T. Johnson to the deal
Agree, Falter or Ortiz might bring a bat, but certainly not anyone game changing, as they are both flawed players in their own right.
Actually the Braves DID give up Contreras to get Murphy, just because he ended up in Milwaukee doesn't mean he was not part of the cost to get Murphy. The fact the A's way over valued Ruiz was not a Braves decision.
But that’s not really the point of my comment. The point of my comment is that rebuilding teams are frequently trading good players for diluted returns, as happened with the A’s return for Murphy. If the Braves had Ruiz they would’ve did the deal straight up without Contreras being involved. Dylan Cease is another example, in the pitching realm. The Padres refused to give up their top 4, so the return, which a lot of analysts panned, was diluted amongst the 5, 7 and 8 prospects. Unless you’re trading for someone like Soto, teams are increasingly placing elite prospects off limits. Translated onto our prospect list, that means you’re looking at moving guys like Barco, Brannigan, Ashcraft, etc. Unfortunately, as I stated above, I don’t see a team with a bat we’d be interested in willing to make such a trade.
I get your point but will belabor my point. At some point the A's said to get Murphy we want Contreras to be a part of the trade. If they just STOPPED at that point they would not have a diluted return and it DID cost the Braves (not free) a really good player. The fact the As blew it from there (and fulfilled your comment) does not make Murphy free(many Brave fans regret it and in your scenario the Pirates are the Braves part of the trade). Props to the Brewers (also the Pirates in your scenario) as they did as you suggested. So I'll say for that one Braves part only example (I do get your overall premise), it does not hold.
A few observations on the quotes and I know they keep it high level:
- I am not opposed to IKF at shortstop (IMO a smart player) given other internal options and outside options, but that assumes offense must come from elsewhere and of course big picture I would rather spend the money elsewhere. I wish Peggy could make about a 25% plate improvement in AAA to make him a better alternative for a team trying compete.
- Hayes- where to start. IF IF IF he could return to elite level defense (he was truly elite) then a slightly below league average offense (some combo of '22 and '23) is manageable with the same IKF statement, offense would come from elsewhere. So we have 2 of the 7-9 spots in the batting order claimed. Before I get ripped apart. He was UNPLAYABLE last year and I get confidence in filling those top 1-6 spots is very low. Saying he is fully participating in off season activities says nothing about his ability to play a season. With some level of personal experience, you can feel fine until you don't, then taking a day or two off solves nothing. I am not optimistic as it seem like it is not fixable which means to me as soon as it flairs he can NOT try to play through it. Sit him for at least a month and hope. If there is any good news, the out years in his contract if he is at all playable are looking cheaper and cheaper with every signing which can also make him more tradable (maybe for nothing but to clear $). Honestly if he would not have these back issues(he DOES) the contract looks great.
- Just move Reynolds to first base if they believe (and if the metrics are true) it is inevitable. Quit this dance. Doesn't mean he can't slide to the OF for several years or once every couple of weeks when the need (or injuries) occurs.
The Hayes conundrum is 100% health. If he is healthy he is valuable on D and offense and his contract is a Braves level steal…but backs are tough. I am not counting on him, but if he can put in a healthy season and play ~120 games that could be the big spark this team needs.
Agree. And back rarely get better with age. I feel for Key.
Injuries like his require an every day level of work on core and surrounding muscle groups. He's got to be a dog about such a regimen if he wants to play healthy. His body has to be incredibly fit to compensate for what I hope is not a chronic back condition. Hope for the best. He's a good player. Remember when Mario Lemieux couldn't tie his own skates?
-BB
Worked in PT for many a year. Planks and hamstring/piriformis stretching. I didn't see what his actual diagnosis was but hope it's something treatable.
And no one in the NHL could tie Mario's skates. And I include gretzky.
BC at least mentioned trades and how they are different, but I could not understand the last sentence "we'll continue to be that way this offseason". I guess he meant carrying that mental approach to being open to trades, because we sure as hell have not done anything yet!
Why not take a run at Anthony Santander? Sure, he has big money folks interested in him, but we should not be taking anything for granted at this point and just the effort is enough to build some recognition that the Pirates of 2025 are doing things differently - it means a lot to the players.
Reading the Alex Stumph article today and the work Reynolds was doing working at 1B down the stretch of 2024, and that Don Kelly has developed a plan for Bryan to use during the off-season to help him become more familiar with work at 1B. Also mentioned that Kelly and Reynolds will get together during the off-season. Good plan, and Kelly played about every position on the field defensively when with Detroit.
Gotta include KY in the off-season plan too I hope. He'd be much better teaching BRey than on our broadcasts.