FWIW, BA has a list of one "sleeper" in every org. Pirates' was Brannigan.
"The Notre Dame alum had an excellent season in 2023, when he advanced to High-A Greensboro and showed off powerful tools across the board. Brannigan’s bag of tricks includes a double-plus throwing arm that ranks as the best in the system, 60-grade defense and speed and power that rank as potentially above-average. Now, he needs to cut down on the swing and miss in order to let his offensive game play to its fullest potential. His defense gives him a floor of a backup big leaguer, but there’s plenty more upside left to tap."
Still wondering why they don't have him trying two-way play at least a little.
I'd rather have Paxton than Stroman, Manea or Montas. When Paxton is healthy he's been awesome. If he's hurt you insert a Jared Jones, Roansy, Quinn or even Skenes.
PS - Stromon is from Long Island. Sure that had something to do with it.
The main problem is Boras likes to get market value or better money for his clients, Bob doesn't like spending market value and prefers to be much lower. It's a philosophical difference.
If Paxton could hold out until guys could go on the IL, that would help the Pirates out. The positive about Paxton is 64 -38 win loss. The negative (like you said is his health). Age 35 and only 4 seasons with at least 100 innings and none with the 162 qualifying innings.
I've always liked Lorenzen, I think because of how he was a parttime two-way player (89 innings in the OF in 2019, and his career OPS is .710). Those days are behind him, but I still think of him as an interesting all-around player.
But signing Paxton, Lorenzen, or Rodriguez would make this a decent offseason. A trade for a potential #2 would make this a good offseason. And both, a signing for a mid-rotation SP and a trade for a TOR starter, would make this a very good offseason.
agree completely. I'm just think we're jammed with the 40 man until pitchers and catchers report and we can put guys on the IL. There isn't the fluff on there like the old days. I don't want to DFA a Selby or Moreta yet or a Palacios or trade a Cheng or Ashcraft.
I also think White Sox are asking for a kings ransom for Cease and BC doesn't want to give up a Chandler or Jared Jones.
Seems to be a design flaw in the rules, a poor decision process by the Bucs or, just rotten luck but after taking care of the guy for two years to just lose him without any return is just wrong. Think of the opportunity cost of keeping him on the roster
"Opportunity cost?" His taking up a roster spot prevented Cherington from inflicting another van Meter or Aaron Fletcher on us. I would say that Kranick served the Pirates well.
or a robert stephenson or a jose quintana or a shelby miller---kranick was a total stranded asset---we got nothing from him, for him. "Opportunity Cost: the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen."
The Pirates have (supposedly) 4 catchers on the 40-man roster. Bailey Falter and Jackson Wolf are on the 40-man along with a host of prospects (Gonzalez, Bae, Williams, Smith-Njigba) who have failed to establish themselves in Pittsburgh. Joshua Palacios, a 28-year-old OFer with mediocre defense, 300 career ABs and a lifetime 75 OPS+) is on the 40-man. Kranick was not a problem. Not preparing players sufficiently to play in Pittsburgh, signing bargain basement free agents and then trading them for AAAA riffraff at the deadline year after year is the problem.
Well, if they had signed Imanaga, they would have had a split-finger expert, who could, you know... maybe help other guys develop that pitch. Instead, we got 12 million dollars of hopium.
Best wishes to Max for good health going forward. Mets seem like a good organization for him to go to from an opportunity standpoint. Hopefully for his sake he takes advantage of the chance and runs with it.
As for Pirates, us fans are still left wanting more. Be it a FA or trade, the organization clearly needs another SP who provides more answers than questions to start the season. The division is there for the taking if Pirates brass would only take a bit of a risk and go for it.
They are slowly running out of options. Aside from maybe Rodriguez, I don’t find any realistic SP’s to be inspiring. I hoped they’d sign Hoskins or Belt, and they are still out there, but I can’t see squeezing them onto a roster with Joe/Olivares/Cutch/Tellez. Nor do I see them spending the money on a legit bat. A trade might be the best route for them to make an impactful move.
Yes, there were a lot of good options in the $12-$20 MM range we should be playing in: Wacha, Stroman, Flaherty, Maeda. Now they are almost gone.
I’m not super optimistic on a trade either, but at least there’s some options. You look at BTV, there are not a ton of decent starters in the value range of the prospects we are willing to give up. Edward Cabrera, Shane Bieber, Blackburn, maybe Brady Singer if the Royals want to sell low.
If the Pirates wanted to get a guy and then lost them to a team like Cleveland, Detroit or Oakland, I am guessing the Pirates could have got him for the same price. I don't think that is always true, when we lose a guy to Chicago, LA or NY.
In the case of Singer it’s not hard to see how the Royals screwed up pitching development program wrecked him. But he’s still had enough talent to post 7 WAR over the past 3 years. But, you’re also trading him to a team that’s had its own pitching development issues, although not as bad as the Royals IMO. Either way I’m skeptical they fix him. Agree Cabrera is probably the better (and if BTV is to be believed) the cheaper target.
You never know, maybe he’ll be our Cole Ragans! We’re due for a bit of luck.
He’s performed enough to pick up 7 fWAR over the last three seasons, and he would have been about even with Oviedo from last year in WAR. But he’s also walking more and K-ing fewer. Not my first choice (Cabrera is).
His stuff is about the same as always. He is a fastball/slider/change guy who does not have a great fastball and who does not generate a lot of groundballs. Without another pitch, and a plus pitch at that, his ceiling is the bullpen, where he could fill some non high-leverage innings in middle relief.
Are we referring to Singer here? His GB rate was 82nd percentile according to Statcast. Agree the pitch mix needs some work, but the xFIP was 4.29 last year. A team like the Dodgers or Rays could probably fix him.
Yes, the offseason has been a disappointment so far but I'm confident that there is a big move coming (big by Pirates standards anyway). If there isn't, I'll feel like Cherington's credibility is shot. But I have just enough belief in him that I think something gets done.
I hope you’re right, but it’s hard to find much evidence to believe it. Let’s see, Cherington’s credibility? Isn’t that pretty much an oxymoron by now? He recently said he’s only 50% done with additions to the team. Even if that’s true, keep in mind that twice nothing is still nothing.
Other than resigning McCutchen, who is going to add anything to this team? Tellez had a negative WAR last year, Olivares, Celestine and Sanchez all had WARs between -1 and +1 with very little MLB time. The two pitchers (Gonzales and Perez) were certainly needed but both had WARs around 0.5-0.6 last year, although Gonzales’ was 3.6 five years ago if that means anything now.
Maybe I’ve missed someone or maybe BC will surprise, but honestly what does twice those additions amount to?
Glad to see Max get a shot with another ballclub, because his chances with the Pirates were probably going to be very limited. Hoping that Travis MacGregor finds his way back to the Pirates. Lot of time and effort put into him, but coming off injury and his age (26), he was not protected on the 40.
I don't expect Max will keep his 40-man spot with Mets, similar fate as Diego.
FWIW, BA has a list of one "sleeper" in every org. Pirates' was Brannigan.
"The Notre Dame alum had an excellent season in 2023, when he advanced to High-A Greensboro and showed off powerful tools across the board. Brannigan’s bag of tricks includes a double-plus throwing arm that ranks as the best in the system, 60-grade defense and speed and power that rank as potentially above-average. Now, he needs to cut down on the swing and miss in order to let his offensive game play to its fullest potential. His defense gives him a floor of a backup big leaguer, but there’s plenty more upside left to tap."
Still wondering why they don't have him trying two-way play at least a little.
I am wondering whats taking so long to move this middle infielder to the outfield...
I think the next one on that list is Mitch Jebb! Sooner they get him out to CF the sooner he has a realistic chance to
learn and thrive at the position
Most recent was McAdoo?
He can play centerfield?
It's vital first to establish clearly that he can't hit.
If he can’t hit that just makes him more attractive. Particularly if he’s defensively challenged at the premium positions.
Toolsy!
Agree on the two-way play, an inning or 2 a week scheduled out of the bullpen or as an opener should be doable.
Wonder if its the player or org that's not having him pitch?
Probably the organization gave him the option. Let him focus on one or the other.
I'd rather have Paxton than Stroman, Manea or Montas. When Paxton is healthy he's been awesome. If he's hurt you insert a Jared Jones, Roansy, Quinn or even Skenes.
PS - Stromon is from Long Island. Sure that had something to do with it.
I like Paxton too, but he is Boras client...Boras and the Pirates don’t play nice.
The main problem is Boras likes to get market value or better money for his clients, Bob doesn't like spending market value and prefers to be much lower. It's a philosophical difference.
Precisely...you gotta give the guy credit for his continued effort to push “market” value.
If Paxton could hold out until guys could go on the IL, that would help the Pirates out. The positive about Paxton is 64 -38 win loss. The negative (like you said is his health). Age 35 and only 4 seasons with at least 100 innings and none with the 162 qualifying innings.
I've always liked Lorenzen, I think because of how he was a parttime two-way player (89 innings in the OF in 2019, and his career OPS is .710). Those days are behind him, but I still think of him as an interesting all-around player.
But signing Paxton, Lorenzen, or Rodriguez would make this a decent offseason. A trade for a potential #2 would make this a good offseason. And both, a signing for a mid-rotation SP and a trade for a TOR starter, would make this a very good offseason.
agree completely. I'm just think we're jammed with the 40 man until pitchers and catchers report and we can put guys on the IL. There isn't the fluff on there like the old days. I don't want to DFA a Selby or Moreta yet or a Palacios or trade a Cheng or Ashcraft.
I also think White Sox are asking for a kings ransom for Cease and BC doesn't want to give up a Chandler or Jared Jones.
Seems to be a design flaw in the rules, a poor decision process by the Bucs or, just rotten luck but after taking care of the guy for two years to just lose him without any return is just wrong. Think of the opportunity cost of keeping him on the roster
"Opportunity cost?" His taking up a roster spot prevented Cherington from inflicting another van Meter or Aaron Fletcher on us. I would say that Kranick served the Pirates well.
or a robert stephenson or a jose quintana or a shelby miller---kranick was a total stranded asset---we got nothing from him, for him. "Opportunity Cost: the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen."
Not another Shelby Miller, but I would gladly take another Jose Quintana. He did well and brought back Oviedo and Malcom Nunez
we could've taken a flier on a Rule 5 guy with Kranick's spot this Dec. The Endy and Oviedo injuries are crippling our early offseason
The Pirates have (supposedly) 4 catchers on the 40-man roster. Bailey Falter and Jackson Wolf are on the 40-man along with a host of prospects (Gonzalez, Bae, Williams, Smith-Njigba) who have failed to establish themselves in Pittsburgh. Joshua Palacios, a 28-year-old OFer with mediocre defense, 300 career ABs and a lifetime 75 OPS+) is on the 40-man. Kranick was not a problem. Not preparing players sufficiently to play in Pittsburgh, signing bargain basement free agents and then trading them for AAAA riffraff at the deadline year after year is the problem.
I think Andre Jackson signed to play in Japan after we cut him, but I get your point.
I had a dream a while back that Wolf developed a split finger almost a fork ball. In the dream it was untouchable lol.
He probably has fairly big hands and long fingers, so maybe???
Well, if they had signed Imanaga, they would have had a split-finger expert, who could, you know... maybe help other guys develop that pitch. Instead, we got 12 million dollars of hopium.
Best wishes to Max for good health going forward. Mets seem like a good organization for him to go to from an opportunity standpoint. Hopefully for his sake he takes advantage of the chance and runs with it.
As for Pirates, us fans are still left wanting more. Be it a FA or trade, the organization clearly needs another SP who provides more answers than questions to start the season. The division is there for the taking if Pirates brass would only take a bit of a risk and go for it.
Not holding my breath.
They are slowly running out of options. Aside from maybe Rodriguez, I don’t find any realistic SP’s to be inspiring. I hoped they’d sign Hoskins or Belt, and they are still out there, but I can’t see squeezing them onto a roster with Joe/Olivares/Cutch/Tellez. Nor do I see them spending the money on a legit bat. A trade might be the best route for them to make an impactful move.
Stroman for that money and those terms is an easy yes.
Yes, there were a lot of good options in the $12-$20 MM range we should be playing in: Wacha, Stroman, Flaherty, Maeda. Now they are almost gone.
I’m not super optimistic on a trade either, but at least there’s some options. You look at BTV, there are not a ton of decent starters in the value range of the prospects we are willing to give up. Edward Cabrera, Shane Bieber, Blackburn, maybe Brady Singer if the Royals want to sell low.
The Archer deal has made Nutting a “once bitten twice shy” Owner on steroids.
As a result us fans are like a penniless kid standing at the window of a candy shop every winter.
If the Pirates wanted to get a guy and then lost them to a team like Cleveland, Detroit or Oakland, I am guessing the Pirates could have got him for the same price. I don't think that is always true, when we lose a guy to Chicago, LA or NY.
“Now they are almost gone.”
Yeah, but the Pirates showed interest in all of them. Even had an intern look up their Facebook pages.
I heard they went as far as looking for their email addresses
But were forbidden from researching who their agent is.
They even got some of their baseball cards, Bob put them in the spokes of his bicycle.
I liked Singer, I thought he was a good buy low candidate. Not sure if his stuff went backwards though.
In the case of Singer it’s not hard to see how the Royals screwed up pitching development program wrecked him. But he’s still had enough talent to post 7 WAR over the past 3 years. But, you’re also trading him to a team that’s had its own pitching development issues, although not as bad as the Royals IMO. Either way I’m skeptical they fix him. Agree Cabrera is probably the better (and if BTV is to be believed) the cheaper target.
You never know, maybe he’ll be our Cole Ragans! We’re due for a bit of luck.
He’s performed enough to pick up 7 fWAR over the last three seasons, and he would have been about even with Oviedo from last year in WAR. But he’s also walking more and K-ing fewer. Not my first choice (Cabrera is).
His stuff is about the same as always. He is a fastball/slider/change guy who does not have a great fastball and who does not generate a lot of groundballs. Without another pitch, and a plus pitch at that, his ceiling is the bullpen, where he could fill some non high-leverage innings in middle relief.
Are we referring to Singer here? His GB rate was 82nd percentile according to Statcast. Agree the pitch mix needs some work, but the xFIP was 4.29 last year. A team like the Dodgers or Rays could probably fix him.
He’s also lower ceiling though, I would make more of an effort for Cabrera.
Yes, the offseason has been a disappointment so far but I'm confident that there is a big move coming (big by Pirates standards anyway). If there isn't, I'll feel like Cherington's credibility is shot. But I have just enough belief in him that I think something gets done.
I hope you’re right, but it’s hard to find much evidence to believe it. Let’s see, Cherington’s credibility? Isn’t that pretty much an oxymoron by now? He recently said he’s only 50% done with additions to the team. Even if that’s true, keep in mind that twice nothing is still nothing.
Other than resigning McCutchen, who is going to add anything to this team? Tellez had a negative WAR last year, Olivares, Celestine and Sanchez all had WARs between -1 and +1 with very little MLB time. The two pitchers (Gonzales and Perez) were certainly needed but both had WARs around 0.5-0.6 last year, although Gonzales’ was 3.6 five years ago if that means anything now.
Maybe I’ve missed someone or maybe BC will surprise, but honestly what does twice those additions amount to?
Glad to see Max get a shot with another ballclub, because his chances with the Pirates were probably going to be very limited. Hoping that Travis MacGregor finds his way back to the Pirates. Lot of time and effort put into him, but coming off injury and his age (26), he was not protected on the 40.