Did anyone read the Athletic article on Skenes. I had no idea but if Skenes wins ROY or finishes runner up not only do we lose the year of service time, but the Pirates are not eligible for the 1st round draft pick compensation that goes with it. I was aware of the service time loss, which means we have him for 5 years instead of 6. But the loss of the draft pick really confuses me. Might make total sense to start limiting his innings big time as it appears to be a lose/lose situation with Skenes
He would have needed to have been rostered in the first two weeks of the season to be eligible for the draft pick which is probably why the Padres, for example, put Merrill on their Opening Day roster.
I can't really criticize the Pirates for giving Skenes a few starts in Indy, and when they did call him up he showed that he was clearly ready so it's also hard to make the case that they should have held him down longer to decrease his ROY chances. What I may be able to blame the Pirates for in the future is not doing everything they can to extend him for a year or two (I think that can still be a win-win--he gains security while not putting off free agency so long that he'll miss out on a mega-deal).
Pre-service time extensions for pitchers literally do not exist - ever, in the history of Major League Baseball - for a very, very clear reason. No player is gonna sign a deal any rational club would be willing to offer.
They're almost certainly gonna have no better shot at winning in that hypothetical extension year than they had going into the deadline this summer. Build around him while he's cheap, when they have resources to spare.
All the more reason why burning a year of service time on Jones and not manipulating Skenes service time never made sense. Unless the point was to win 75 games instead of 71.
I don't exactly disagree, I just see the issue as pointless. They can waste a year of control with Skenes, or they can waste his whole career in Pgh. by refusing to try to put a major league team around him. With the people running the team now, I don't see anything to do but enjoy what little is going right in the moment. With zero commitment to winning on the part of Nuttin or Cherington, they're going to eff up Skenes' Pgh. tenure regardless.
Agree, if Nutting was serious about winning, this off-season is a prime time to clean house. With the rotation budding with talent a few positions filled, a good GM could theoretically fill out a contending team with a real payroll budget to work with.
A new GM and Manger wouldn't need to do a total rebuild or leverage the farm to do so. I just don't see Nutting taking the marginal risk. (Wouldn't mind a revamped development program on the hitting side either, from rookie leagues up.)
Just fill the damn holes! CF, 1B, RF. It is really not that hard. Fill one with a quality free agent or sign a couple relief pitchers and trade prospects to fill the other 2. Trade Johnson or Harrington or even Chandler. Just fill the holes with something that is not waiver-wire level junk or a string of $3 million dollar AAAA players who are only slightly better than waiver wire junk. Simple as that. No need to jimmy around the fringes of the roster with the Olivareses and de la Cruzes of the league. Fill the Holes Now1
Yep, I don't think Cherington is capable of doing that without getting extremely lucky. Shelton is a fine manager for a young team that's going be under 500, not so much a contender.
Pretty much the same situation they had at the end of last year. Tellez, Taylor and Olivares were the choices then, the only replacement during the season from outside the organization to address those areas is currently de la Cruz and one game of McKinney (international pool $ trade in December).
Having the same people doing the same thing and expecting different results isn't usually a good idea.
Manipulating thejr service time would have been an acknowledgement that they were realistic about their odds this year. Not manipulating their service time means they either A.) thought they could win this year wjth a sampling of budget free agents from the Golden Corral buffet (disturbing) or B.) there is no plan (equally disturbing).
Another thing that’s a bit annoying? They seemed surprised Skenes blew up the way he did and accelerated the timeline a bit. While we’re all hoping for this type of scenario, it wasn’t out of the realm of possibility he’d perform like this. Yet they seemed surprised by it. They’re always on their heels in every scenario.
I'm no Nutting fan but if we're a contender for a championship, I have to think he'd bite the bullet and pay that $30MM. The key is getting a management team in place that can make that a reality. Or maybe we will have won one by then and Skenes can ride off into the sunset having ensured his legendary status in Pittsburgh.
No, I don’t think he would. I don’t really think winning a championship is a goal here. The goal is to sell tickets and never lose $$$. They can easily achieve that without taking such risks as a $30 MM yearly salary.
I may be too optimistic, but a championship or even making the WS would cover much of that $30MM in increased tickets sales and other revenue streams and in franchise valuation. Of course he'd be aware of the risk of paying that salary and then not winning big.
But first things first as we'll see if there is any commitment to winning by how this upcoming offseason goes. If there are no significant changes (and firing Haines is not a significant change) and there is no significant increase in payroll, then I'll lose most of my optimism that we'll have Skenes for all of his years of control. Either replace Cherington or give him enough money to make up for what he's/they're lacking in talent evaluation and development.
Good summation. And the last sentence in the first paragraph is the big problem.
Regarding the second paragraph, sure there will be a payroll increase. He’s pretty consistent about increasing payroll when attendance increases and vice versa, but that depends on how you define “significant?” Is $10-$15 million significant?
I think $15-20MM would be significant, though part of that would be the willingness to commit that money for multiple years.
I have no reason to expect this, but if we take the money spent on Tellez, Grandal, and Taylor (~$10MM) combined with an additional ~$15M, we could get an impact bat. If we don't try to re-sign Chapman (or try and fail), then that's another ~10MM. Of course they're probably thinking that some of that money is going to IKF and then there are other raises. But a combination of more spending and wiser spending could make an impact.
Right, there's no history on his side. But he'll be more than a decade older than in 2015 by the time he'd need to decide on Skenes and maybe, just maybe, he'll reflect on how he wants to be remembered. Or perhaps he's capable of learning from past mistakes. But it's also very plausible that we'll have a new management team in place and Skenes will become their primary trade chip in their rebuild.
2015 was a function of total payroll, tho. There's really zero reason to believe Nutting gives a shit about how to allocate the budget he gives ops to spend.
Huntington is the one who would've been refusing to spend $30m on one player. Yet to be seen if Cherington buys into the 20% rule.
Do you think that 6th year of team control factors into his eventual trade value, though? If so, seems like yet another unforced blunder from this FO and a potentially impactful one.
Should add, he’s hit from both sides. The original hope was that he could hit from one side, I forget which, in Sept so he seems to be well ahead of schedule.
I wouldn’t expect that at all. He struggled mightily at the plate in 2023, and they have Bart. Honestly, having Bart gives them a good opportunity to ease Endy back into AAA rather than feel the need to rush him back to the majors in 2025.
I'm hoping Endy can get back to Indy for a few weeks this year, even if it's just DH or 1st base. Totally agree on not rushing him next year either, hope the added muscle shows up in the batters box.
Oh for sure, it's definitely not what I'm expecting. I've been a fan of this team long enough to not expect anything from any prospect lol. Just hoping.
Those movies are 45/38 years old at this point...since no IP can ever end or die these days, might as well churn out a decent greatest hits album. It was entertaining enough, especially the last 30 minutes or so.
Looks to me like the scouting grades on Griffin’s speed and arm are for real.
Did anyone read the Athletic article on Skenes. I had no idea but if Skenes wins ROY or finishes runner up not only do we lose the year of service time, but the Pirates are not eligible for the 1st round draft pick compensation that goes with it. I was aware of the service time loss, which means we have him for 5 years instead of 6. But the loss of the draft pick really confuses me. Might make total sense to start limiting his innings big time as it appears to be a lose/lose situation with Skenes
He would have needed to have been rostered in the first two weeks of the season to be eligible for the draft pick which is probably why the Padres, for example, put Merrill on their Opening Day roster.
I can't really criticize the Pirates for giving Skenes a few starts in Indy, and when they did call him up he showed that he was clearly ready so it's also hard to make the case that they should have held him down longer to decrease his ROY chances. What I may be able to blame the Pirates for in the future is not doing everything they can to extend him for a year or two (I think that can still be a win-win--he gains security while not putting off free agency so long that he'll miss out on a mega-deal).
Just build around him while he's cheap!
Pre-service time extensions for pitchers literally do not exist - ever, in the history of Major League Baseball - for a very, very clear reason. No player is gonna sign a deal any rational club would be willing to offer.
They're almost certainly gonna have no better shot at winning in that hypothetical extension year than they had going into the deadline this summer. Build around him while he's cheap, when they have resources to spare.
Weren’t going to have him for six years anyway. An arb3 salary for him is liable to top $30M. Nuttin isn’t paying that.
All the more reason why burning a year of service time on Jones and not manipulating Skenes service time never made sense. Unless the point was to win 75 games instead of 71.
I don't exactly disagree, I just see the issue as pointless. They can waste a year of control with Skenes, or they can waste his whole career in Pgh. by refusing to try to put a major league team around him. With the people running the team now, I don't see anything to do but enjoy what little is going right in the moment. With zero commitment to winning on the part of Nuttin or Cherington, they're going to eff up Skenes' Pgh. tenure regardless.
Agree, if Nutting was serious about winning, this off-season is a prime time to clean house. With the rotation budding with talent a few positions filled, a good GM could theoretically fill out a contending team with a real payroll budget to work with.
A new GM and Manger wouldn't need to do a total rebuild or leverage the farm to do so. I just don't see Nutting taking the marginal risk. (Wouldn't mind a revamped development program on the hitting side either, from rookie leagues up.)
Just fill the damn holes! CF, 1B, RF. It is really not that hard. Fill one with a quality free agent or sign a couple relief pitchers and trade prospects to fill the other 2. Trade Johnson or Harrington or even Chandler. Just fill the holes with something that is not waiver-wire level junk or a string of $3 million dollar AAAA players who are only slightly better than waiver wire junk. Simple as that. No need to jimmy around the fringes of the roster with the Olivareses and de la Cruzes of the league. Fill the Holes Now1
Yep, I don't think Cherington is capable of doing that without getting extremely lucky. Shelton is a fine manager for a young team that's going be under 500, not so much a contender.
Pretty much the same situation they had at the end of last year. Tellez, Taylor and Olivares were the choices then, the only replacement during the season from outside the organization to address those areas is currently de la Cruz and one game of McKinney (international pool $ trade in December).
Having the same people doing the same thing and expecting different results isn't usually a good idea.
Manipulating thejr service time would have been an acknowledgement that they were realistic about their odds this year. Not manipulating their service time means they either A.) thought they could win this year wjth a sampling of budget free agents from the Golden Corral buffet (disturbing) or B.) there is no plan (equally disturbing).
Another thing that’s a bit annoying? They seemed surprised Skenes blew up the way he did and accelerated the timeline a bit. While we’re all hoping for this type of scenario, it wasn’t out of the realm of possibility he’d perform like this. Yet they seemed surprised by it. They’re always on their heels in every scenario.
I'm no Nutting fan but if we're a contender for a championship, I have to think he'd bite the bullet and pay that $30MM. The key is getting a management team in place that can make that a reality. Or maybe we will have won one by then and Skenes can ride off into the sunset having ensured his legendary status in Pittsburgh.
No, I don’t think he would. I don’t really think winning a championship is a goal here. The goal is to sell tickets and never lose $$$. They can easily achieve that without taking such risks as a $30 MM yearly salary.
I may be too optimistic, but a championship or even making the WS would cover much of that $30MM in increased tickets sales and other revenue streams and in franchise valuation. Of course he'd be aware of the risk of paying that salary and then not winning big.
But first things first as we'll see if there is any commitment to winning by how this upcoming offseason goes. If there are no significant changes (and firing Haines is not a significant change) and there is no significant increase in payroll, then I'll lose most of my optimism that we'll have Skenes for all of his years of control. Either replace Cherington or give him enough money to make up for what he's/they're lacking in talent evaluation and development.
Good summation. And the last sentence in the first paragraph is the big problem.
Regarding the second paragraph, sure there will be a payroll increase. He’s pretty consistent about increasing payroll when attendance increases and vice versa, but that depends on how you define “significant?” Is $10-$15 million significant?
I think $15-20MM would be significant, though part of that would be the willingness to commit that money for multiple years.
I have no reason to expect this, but if we take the money spent on Tellez, Grandal, and Taylor (~$10MM) combined with an additional ~$15M, we could get an impact bat. If we don't try to re-sign Chapman (or try and fail), then that's another ~10MM. Of course they're probably thinking that some of that money is going to IKF and then there are other raises. But a combination of more spending and wiser spending could make an impact.
When Nuttin was needed to step up after the 2015 season, he refused. I definitely don’t think he’ll bite the bullet. He never has before.
Right, there's no history on his side. But he'll be more than a decade older than in 2015 by the time he'd need to decide on Skenes and maybe, just maybe, he'll reflect on how he wants to be remembered. Or perhaps he's capable of learning from past mistakes. But it's also very plausible that we'll have a new management team in place and Skenes will become their primary trade chip in their rebuild.
2015 was a function of total payroll, tho. There's really zero reason to believe Nutting gives a shit about how to allocate the budget he gives ops to spend.
Huntington is the one who would've been refusing to spend $30m on one player. Yet to be seen if Cherington buys into the 20% rule.
I actually think the 20% nonsense might have been Coonelly, not that it matters.
Do you think that 6th year of team control factors into his eventual trade value, though? If so, seems like yet another unforced blunder from this FO and a potentially impactful one.
Endy DHing now at Pirate City.
Should add, he’s hit from both sides. The original hope was that he could hit from one side, I forget which, in Sept so he seems to be well ahead of schedule.
Man how good would it be for this team if Endy comes back in 2025 and even becomes just a major league average C
I wouldn’t expect that at all. He struggled mightily at the plate in 2023, and they have Bart. Honestly, having Bart gives them a good opportunity to ease Endy back into AAA rather than feel the need to rush him back to the majors in 2025.
I'm hoping Endy can get back to Indy for a few weeks this year, even if it's just DH or 1st base. Totally agree on not rushing him next year either, hope the added muscle shows up in the batters box.
Oh for sure, it's definitely not what I'm expecting. I've been a fan of this team long enough to not expect anything from any prospect lol. Just hoping.
Amen brother. I’ve had my heart broken way too many times. I still hope, it’s just more cautious hope nowadays.
Also got an inning from the ever-elusive Brennan Malone.
Better get a pic to document that occasion!
McAdoo made BA’s hot sheet this week.
He was something like 1 or 2 for 17, and then went on fire
He started off 0-for-20 with Toronto!
Alien: Romulus...not a classic, but definitely better than watching last night's game.
a movie buff buddy said not as good as the first two but better than all the rest of the Alien movies
Pretty much copied the first two scene by scene. All the originality of a ham sandwich.
You've obviously never tried one of my ham sandwiches.
Well that sucks. I loved the Alien movies, well at least the first two. Liked they were going back to the suspense/horror aspect like the first.
Maybe I’ll just wait till it’s streaming somewhere now
Those movies are 45/38 years old at this point...since no IP can ever end or die these days, might as well churn out a decent greatest hits album. It was entertaining enough, especially the last 30 minutes or so.
That was my take as well.