Kiley has post deadline and draft rankings of farm systems up. Bucs are 21st, after 14th in preseason. He says that between TJ, Yorke, Brannigan and the two recent draftees there’s probably a regular or two in there, but they’ll need more at the big league level.
I’m not sure anyone else graduated. But Kiley does the same $ value system (or similar) to FG, so when they graduate highly rated guys like Skenes and Jones, the system tumbles. That’s a fall for a good reason, I suppose.
Surprised its that low based on the pitching, feel like we have at least 5+ big league arms in the system with a few having a good shot at being impact arms
By his rankings though, it looks like Bubba is the only potential high impact arm in his eyes. It’s fair to wonder if any of the other four develop into anything more than back end arms. Add that to the attrition of arms in general and I think their ranking fits.
It’s also just a snapshot in time though. Maybe next year they’re in the same spot, but Bubba is on his way go ROY, all the other arms have graduated and TJ and Griffin are far and away the only big prospects.
It'll probably be a fair ranking until at least 2026 when the current Low-A and below prospects begin filtering through. Outside of Termarr truly clicking and blowing up next year, there's not much to offer from Indy through Greensboro, outside of some at least interesting or better arms.
My long prospect following journey began with the Sporting News, which carried minor league stats and standings. That was in the 70s when the Pirates farm teams were routinely 20 games over .500 and had anywhere from three to five players in the batting average top 10 in their league.
I then graduated to Baseball America in the late 80s, and later added ESPN during the John Sickels era. I eventually gave up on BA as it was more information than I needed and I got tired of getting my hopes up for prospects that never panned out (like the Danny Clyburn/Trey Beamon/Shon Walker/Midre Cummings outfield of the future.)
I have stuck with ESPN through Keith Law and now Kiley Daniels. I got an Athletic subscription when Keith Law migrated, and it’s easy for me to maintain because it’s included for free in a New York Times subscription.
I like Jim Callis and Jon Mayo, but find the MLB affiliated sites unusable, so I mainly focus on them at draft time and when the new lists come out.
I know Keith Law gets a lot of flack on this site, but if I had to pick one guy to read it would be Law. For one thing, I like his writing and he’s not afraid to buck the consensus, and will admit he’s wrong.
This was a long time ago, well before Law, but their sub offered little in value so I decided to cancel. You couldn't cancel online and it took me 20 minutes of searching through fine print to find the number I had to call. The person on the other end kept carrying on and on and on, trying to interrogate me about why I was canceling so she could argue with me that it wasn't a good reason. I literally had to start screaming at her before she finally canceled. I swore then that I'd never voluntarily give ESPN another dime, and I haven't. My experience was 100% consistent with everything I've ever read about them as a company, and that's without even getting into their shitty coverage.
I'm not sure if I'd subscribe if it wasn't for it being included in the Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ bundle. I couldn't stay subscribed to The Athletic cause I just NEVER used it. Everyone outside of Jesse Marshall for the Pens was blah. And hockey advanced analytics just lack too much for me to be intrigued by them.
I think paywall, as well as he's kind of similar to (modern) Fangraphs in that he rarely does rankings updates. And even his mid-season top 100 update cuts the list generally from 100 to 50. So, outside the hype when his pre-season list comes out, (which had Harrington!!!!!) it becomes a little obsolete.
Frankly, I prefer the rankings updates. FG really only does it if someone makes a mechanical change or it’s a health issue. Trying to make multiple list changes over the course of a season makes it easier to overreact to a good or bad stretch for a player.
With Fangraphs, I wish they'd at least update throughout the season with graduations, as they had done in the past similar to Pipeline who I believe have some sort of algorithm (or the resources) to do it almost immediately. I wanna say at one point, Fangraphs were behind over 20 graduations? And there were guys that should've probably easily been dropped off.
In terms of reaction, there is some truth to that. But the big publications also have access to much more resources/data to make calculated assessments, as opposed to, say us as fans, who mostly only get to go off of stat lines for a McAdoo who was mashing.
A lot of that with FG seems to be a bandwidth issue. Not enough staff for a small shop like that. Maybe it changes with adding an additional prospect guy.
Which, I believe I just saw someone on Twitter mentioned they've taken a position with FG. So, it may be upcoming. Future Star Series does a pretty good job, but they seem to put their full weight behind the draft. I also think BA and FG need to look into server issues, cause their sites hang up A LOOOOOOOOTTTTTTT lately
It is really difficult for me to think the AAA club has made any significant improvements from the first half to the second half, especially when the Pirates are thought to have a strong group of prospects. They finished 7 games under .500 in the first half and are now 1 game above .500 and in 4th place in the West in the 2nd Half. I have always been a firm believer that WINNING builds confidence which then applies in a positive manner to the skills of each individual on the team! Can't wait until arriving at the MLB level to think about developing a winning attitude.
I agree, but I hope they did not trade for either to watch them play at AAA. Cook, 25, has 271 AB at AAA this year with 18 doubles, 3 triples, 12 HR, close to a .900 OPS with 34 BB/71 K. Fielded . 994 primarily as a 1B. We need to see where he can project as a 1B, and hopefully, as a RH hitter with possibly 15-20 HR power. Like the K/BB numbers for a kid with his power.
Nick Yorke is younger at 22, but at AAA he has 163 AB, 11 doubles, 6 HR, a .900 OPS with 25 BB/35 K. He plays at 2B or LF. We know what we have with the Pirate MI's and OF's, but Yorke has shown power, and his K/BB numbers are Excellent+ for a kid this young! Fielded .984 in 96 games at 2B at AA last year, and is .989 at 2B at AAA this year in 21 games.
Kiley has post deadline and draft rankings of farm systems up. Bucs are 21st, after 14th in preseason. He says that between TJ, Yorke, Brannigan and the two recent draftees there’s probably a regular or two in there, but they’ll need more at the big league level.
Who graduated other than Skenes and Jones?
I’m not sure anyone else graduated. But Kiley does the same $ value system (or similar) to FG, so when they graduate highly rated guys like Skenes and Jones, the system tumbles. That’s a fall for a good reason, I suppose.
Clemente!
Fangraphs farm rankings have them 21st as well
Surprised its that low based on the pitching, feel like we have at least 5+ big league arms in the system with a few having a good shot at being impact arms
By his rankings though, it looks like Bubba is the only potential high impact arm in his eyes. It’s fair to wonder if any of the other four develop into anything more than back end arms. Add that to the attrition of arms in general and I think their ranking fits.
It’s also just a snapshot in time though. Maybe next year they’re in the same spot, but Bubba is on his way go ROY, all the other arms have graduated and TJ and Griffin are far and away the only big prospects.
It'll probably be a fair ranking until at least 2026 when the current Low-A and below prospects begin filtering through. Outside of Termarr truly clicking and blowing up next year, there's not much to offer from Indy through Greensboro, outside of some at least interesting or better arms.
Was wondering why Kiley doesn't get more love around here. Paywall, I assume.
My long prospect following journey began with the Sporting News, which carried minor league stats and standings. That was in the 70s when the Pirates farm teams were routinely 20 games over .500 and had anywhere from three to five players in the batting average top 10 in their league.
I then graduated to Baseball America in the late 80s, and later added ESPN during the John Sickels era. I eventually gave up on BA as it was more information than I needed and I got tired of getting my hopes up for prospects that never panned out (like the Danny Clyburn/Trey Beamon/Shon Walker/Midre Cummings outfield of the future.)
I have stuck with ESPN through Keith Law and now Kiley Daniels. I got an Athletic subscription when Keith Law migrated, and it’s easy for me to maintain because it’s included for free in a New York Times subscription.
I like Jim Callis and Jon Mayo, but find the MLB affiliated sites unusable, so I mainly focus on them at draft time and when the new lists come out.
I know Keith Law gets a lot of flack on this site, but if I had to pick one guy to read it would be Law. For one thing, I like his writing and he’s not afraid to buck the consensus, and will admit he’s wrong.
Now there's some bona fides, nice!
More specifically, ESPN paywall. My one experience with them was so incredibly negative that I'd never consider subscribing again. Plus, it's ESPN.
I followed Keith Law for a long time but ESPN was what finally drove me away.
This was a long time ago, well before Law, but their sub offered little in value so I decided to cancel. You couldn't cancel online and it took me 20 minutes of searching through fine print to find the number I had to call. The person on the other end kept carrying on and on and on, trying to interrogate me about why I was canceling so she could argue with me that it wasn't a good reason. I literally had to start screaming at her before she finally canceled. I swore then that I'd never voluntarily give ESPN another dime, and I haven't. My experience was 100% consistent with everything I've ever read about them as a company, and that's without even getting into their shitty coverage.
I'm not sure if I'd subscribe if it wasn't for it being included in the Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ bundle. I couldn't stay subscribed to The Athletic cause I just NEVER used it. Everyone outside of Jesse Marshall for the Pens was blah. And hockey advanced analytics just lack too much for me to be intrigued by them.
Not a Biertempfel fan, eh?
I think paywall, as well as he's kind of similar to (modern) Fangraphs in that he rarely does rankings updates. And even his mid-season top 100 update cuts the list generally from 100 to 50. So, outside the hype when his pre-season list comes out, (which had Harrington!!!!!) it becomes a little obsolete.
Frankly, I prefer the rankings updates. FG really only does it if someone makes a mechanical change or it’s a health issue. Trying to make multiple list changes over the course of a season makes it easier to overreact to a good or bad stretch for a player.
With Fangraphs, I wish they'd at least update throughout the season with graduations, as they had done in the past similar to Pipeline who I believe have some sort of algorithm (or the resources) to do it almost immediately. I wanna say at one point, Fangraphs were behind over 20 graduations? And there were guys that should've probably easily been dropped off.
In terms of reaction, there is some truth to that. But the big publications also have access to much more resources/data to make calculated assessments, as opposed to, say us as fans, who mostly only get to go off of stat lines for a McAdoo who was mashing.
A lot of that with FG seems to be a bandwidth issue. Not enough staff for a small shop like that. Maybe it changes with adding an additional prospect guy.
People keep talking about the bandwidth issue but neither BA nor Pipeline do midseason scouting updates either.
Y'all really care that much about listicles? To each their own.
Which, I believe I just saw someone on Twitter mentioned they've taken a position with FG. So, it may be upcoming. Future Star Series does a pretty good job, but they seem to put their full weight behind the draft. I also think BA and FG need to look into server issues, cause their sites hang up A LOOOOOOOOTTTTTTT lately
That’s pretty much it. His content is great too. When he and Eric wrote together at FG, it was pretty tough to beat.
It is really difficult for me to think the AAA club has made any significant improvements from the first half to the second half, especially when the Pirates are thought to have a strong group of prospects. They finished 7 games under .500 in the first half and are now 1 game above .500 and in 4th place in the West in the 2nd Half. I have always been a firm believer that WINNING builds confidence which then applies in a positive manner to the skills of each individual on the team! Can't wait until arriving at the MLB level to think about developing a winning attitude.
Adding Cook and Yorke to the mix as well as promotions for Bubba and Harrington definitely adds a bit more enthusiasm for me
I agree, but I hope they did not trade for either to watch them play at AAA. Cook, 25, has 271 AB at AAA this year with 18 doubles, 3 triples, 12 HR, close to a .900 OPS with 34 BB/71 K. Fielded . 994 primarily as a 1B. We need to see where he can project as a 1B, and hopefully, as a RH hitter with possibly 15-20 HR power. Like the K/BB numbers for a kid with his power.
Nick Yorke is younger at 22, but at AAA he has 163 AB, 11 doubles, 6 HR, a .900 OPS with 25 BB/35 K. He plays at 2B or LF. We know what we have with the Pirate MI's and OF's, but Yorke has shown power, and his K/BB numbers are Excellent+ for a kid this young! Fielded .984 in 96 games at 2B at AA last year, and is .989 at 2B at AAA this year in 21 games.