I think Mitch would jump on that contract and I think Pirates ownership would rather see how 2024 begins. He was an all-star the first half of last year. Really struggled for part of the second half. 25-38 lifetime with a 4.71 ERA. It would be awesome if he starts 2024 the way he began 2023.
Agreed, the front office needs to make their decision by the start of the season. Do they feel he's a solid 3 or better, then lock him up because solid 3's cost more. I can see Keller going as low as $13 million AAV but only for a 4 maybe 5 year deal. If they don't make a deal before the season and he starts the season like 2023 his price will skyrocket performing like a 1. If he maintains it he's going to be fairly expensive (for the pirates) in 2025 anyhow and the team will pretty much lose their window for a team friendly extension.
I don't think it works for Nippon players because Yamamoto—for example—already had to go through their 0-6 years of control equiv. What might work is to make all Japanese drafted players immediate Super-2s with some fairly significant signing bonus slots.
I think your idea would be an improvement. Right now, If a college grad signs with an MLB team, I think he can be a free agent at age 28. That means he probably also did his part of promoting the game here. in the United States (Albert Pujols comes to mind.)
Yamamoto is a year younger at 27 and did nothing to promote the game in the United States over the last 6 years, but he has enough bargaining power to get the highest dolloar pitching contract already.
Not the highest paid pitcher - he does have the highest gross dollar contract amount $325 mil, one mil higher than Gerrit Cole's $324 mil, but because of the number of years, he may only be in the Top 10 of the highest paid pitchers in 2024. If equally distributed it amounts to about $27 mil per year - about Tyler Glasnow range.
Just looked at Cot's and part of that $325 is a $50 mil signing bonus, and I defer to Ethan, but I am not sure that is counted against annual compensation.
I gotta love the "free market capitalism" nonsense - that something is FREE!! Oh, goodie! ("free market" actually means "free from regulation, taxation, and responsibility")
So the Dodgers spent $1,000,000,000 on a few players, and the few baseball fans left are supposed to look forward to their teams' chances this year, and forever into the future?
I'd say "bah-humbug" if I hadn't lost nearly all interest in this charade of a sport .... hey, it is America's Pasttime after all, with the free market ruining any and all competitive balance.
I appreciate your skepticism and am there myself, but I keep trying not to be cynical because I still love the game despite the ridiculous amounts of money involved. I’ll continue rooting for the Pirates and hoping the Dodgers lose the same way I did last year when the Mets went on a spending spree that resulted in them having a worse record than the Pirates. Spending doesn’t guarantee winning but unfortunately not spending pretty much does guarantee not winning.
Just for clarification, baseball does not operate as a free market nor is it actually capitalism we’re talking about. The game is rigged financially if not on the field. The owners have guarantees that they’ll make money regardless of the quality of the product they produce. The Pirates get paid the equivalent of baseball welfare so they can keep losing indefinitely and still make money. That is not how capitalism nor a free market are supposed to work. In some ways they’re similar to the old Washington Generals who traveled with the Harlem Globetrotters simply to provide some mild opposition always with the assurance they would never win.
MLB’s a show. It’s entertainment that’s predictable if not scripted and the owners are completely in charge. Some owners are willing to spend money to make more money in the same way any successful business does, while some owners like Nutting are content to collect their welfare checks and do virtually nothing to improve the product. Both types make money in baseball while in a competitive market the Pirates and teams like them would have gone out of business a long time ago.
So yes the game is rigged in the favor of the big spenders and the really unfortunate part for Pirate fans is that if Nutting was actually a good business man instead of a slacker willing to live on handouts, they could increase their revenue by actually spending to improve the team. Income could increase and he could make even more money, but that would require thought and some actual effort and that’s not how Pirate ownership operates. Maybe cynicism is the appropriate response to the way things are, but I love the game itself too much to give up completely at least yet.
Only problem: their ability to generate revenue is quite limited compared to the larger markets. Pittsburgh simply doesn’t have the wealth of an LA or NY, or even a Seattle or San Diego. The length of the season works against them too: how many people around here are willing AND able to shell out $300 a ticket for 81 games, like they do in NY or LA.
In a true free market, the teams that cannot compete would go out of business, and we’d end up with 5 NY, 3 LA and 3 Bay Area baseball teams.
The 1800s were much more free market-style. But the result was frequently that teams would go out of business halfway through the year, or find it more profitable not to play games on the road than it was to play. That isn’t really what anyone wants to go back to.
I truly debated how to respond as a 'kiddie'. Thanks for educating me and putting me (us?) in our place, I now understand I shouldn't follow baseball. Hopefully this was just a vent amongst friends, but if this is your true feelings that is ok, we all get to choose where to spend our 'free' time.
I hope we get a Keller extension for Christmas.
I think he'd go for a frontloaded 5 year deal with an option for a 6th.
Something like...
Year 1) $20 million
Year 2) $18 million
Year 3) $16 million
Year 4) $14 million
Year 5) $12 million with $5 million buyout
Year 6) $20 million
Basically 5 year $85 million guaranteed or 6 year $100 million.
Maybe go 4 year with a 5th year option, same premises 1)$20 2)$17 3)$15 4)$13 w/$5 buyout 5)$20 4 year $70 or 5 year $85.
I think Mitch would jump on that contract and I think Pirates ownership would rather see how 2024 begins. He was an all-star the first half of last year. Really struggled for part of the second half. 25-38 lifetime with a 4.71 ERA. It would be awesome if he starts 2024 the way he began 2023.
Agreed, the front office needs to make their decision by the start of the season. Do they feel he's a solid 3 or better, then lock him up because solid 3's cost more. I can see Keller going as low as $13 million AAV but only for a 4 maybe 5 year deal. If they don't make a deal before the season and he starts the season like 2023 his price will skyrocket performing like a 1. If he maintains it he's going to be fairly expensive (for the pirates) in 2025 anyhow and the team will pretty much lose their window for a team friendly extension.
I know there have been talks about an international draft in MLB. Would that include players like Yamamoto?
If the owners got their way in the CBA negotiation.
I don't think it works for Nippon players because Yamamoto—for example—already had to go through their 0-6 years of control equiv. What might work is to make all Japanese drafted players immediate Super-2s with some fairly significant signing bonus slots.
I think your idea would be an improvement. Right now, If a college grad signs with an MLB team, I think he can be a free agent at age 28. That means he probably also did his part of promoting the game here. in the United States (Albert Pujols comes to mind.)
Yamamoto is a year younger at 27 and did nothing to promote the game in the United States over the last 6 years, but he has enough bargaining power to get the highest dolloar pitching contract already.
Not the highest paid pitcher - he does have the highest gross dollar contract amount $325 mil, one mil higher than Gerrit Cole's $324 mil, but because of the number of years, he may only be in the Top 10 of the highest paid pitchers in 2024. If equally distributed it amounts to about $27 mil per year - about Tyler Glasnow range.
Just looked at Cot's and part of that $325 is a $50 mil signing bonus, and I defer to Ethan, but I am not sure that is counted against annual compensation.
Capitalism 101 time, kiddies ...
I gotta love the "free market capitalism" nonsense - that something is FREE!! Oh, goodie! ("free market" actually means "free from regulation, taxation, and responsibility")
So the Dodgers spent $1,000,000,000 on a few players, and the few baseball fans left are supposed to look forward to their teams' chances this year, and forever into the future?
I'd say "bah-humbug" if I hadn't lost nearly all interest in this charade of a sport .... hey, it is America's Pasttime after all, with the free market ruining any and all competitive balance.
Is it too late to rebrand as the "Pittsburgh Proletariats"?
I appreciate your skepticism and am there myself, but I keep trying not to be cynical because I still love the game despite the ridiculous amounts of money involved. I’ll continue rooting for the Pirates and hoping the Dodgers lose the same way I did last year when the Mets went on a spending spree that resulted in them having a worse record than the Pirates. Spending doesn’t guarantee winning but unfortunately not spending pretty much does guarantee not winning.
Just for clarification, baseball does not operate as a free market nor is it actually capitalism we’re talking about. The game is rigged financially if not on the field. The owners have guarantees that they’ll make money regardless of the quality of the product they produce. The Pirates get paid the equivalent of baseball welfare so they can keep losing indefinitely and still make money. That is not how capitalism nor a free market are supposed to work. In some ways they’re similar to the old Washington Generals who traveled with the Harlem Globetrotters simply to provide some mild opposition always with the assurance they would never win.
MLB’s a show. It’s entertainment that’s predictable if not scripted and the owners are completely in charge. Some owners are willing to spend money to make more money in the same way any successful business does, while some owners like Nutting are content to collect their welfare checks and do virtually nothing to improve the product. Both types make money in baseball while in a competitive market the Pirates and teams like them would have gone out of business a long time ago.
So yes the game is rigged in the favor of the big spenders and the really unfortunate part for Pirate fans is that if Nutting was actually a good business man instead of a slacker willing to live on handouts, they could increase their revenue by actually spending to improve the team. Income could increase and he could make even more money, but that would require thought and some actual effort and that’s not how Pirate ownership operates. Maybe cynicism is the appropriate response to the way things are, but I love the game itself too much to give up completely at least yet.
Only problem: their ability to generate revenue is quite limited compared to the larger markets. Pittsburgh simply doesn’t have the wealth of an LA or NY, or even a Seattle or San Diego. The length of the season works against them too: how many people around here are willing AND able to shell out $300 a ticket for 81 games, like they do in NY or LA.
In a true free market, the teams that cannot compete would go out of business, and we’d end up with 5 NY, 3 LA and 3 Bay Area baseball teams.
The 1800s were much more free market-style. But the result was frequently that teams would go out of business halfway through the year, or find it more profitable not to play games on the road than it was to play. That isn’t really what anyone wants to go back to.
Ohtani and Yamamoto were bad enough but now LOLO??! That’s it…IM DONE. Good bye cruel world.
He’s our future CFielder!!!!!
I truly debated how to respond as a 'kiddie'. Thanks for educating me and putting me (us?) in our place, I now understand I shouldn't follow baseball. Hopefully this was just a vent amongst friends, but if this is your true feelings that is ok, we all get to choose where to spend our 'free' time.
these people are so miserable.
Stop hating the 1%!
😂