Just watching Brian Kenny on MLB - 5 Atlanta Braves in the Top 30 of XWOBA. Yes they are all very talented individual players, but I wonder if any of the Pirate Brass know who their hitting coaches are? Yes, it is difficult to buy talent, but knowledgeable hitting coaches are not that expensive. Sure I know that Shelton was a hitting coach at one or two stops along the way, but . . . . . . ..
Not every hitter has to be physically "SPECIAL" in order to learn something that can at least elevate them beyond where they are at currently in the batters box! Seeing the ball is Step 1, and Step 2 is putting the ball in play - then work from there.
Just watching Brian Kenny on MLB - 5 Atlanta Braves in the Top 30 of XWOBA. Yes they are all very talented individual players, but I wonder if any of the Pirate Brass know who their hitting coaches are? Yes, it is difficult to buy talent, but knowledgeable hitting coaches are not that expensive. Sure I know that Shelton was a hitting coach at one or two stops along the way, but . . . . . . ..
Not every hitter has to be physically "SPECIAL" in order to learn something that can at least elevate them beyond where they are at currently in the batters box! Seeing the ball is Step 1, and Step 2 is putting the ball in play - then work from there.
Got a Suero sighting in the FCL. Also, I didnt realize how many freaking players we have on that team until just now scrolling down the boxscore. Gotta love the reduced minor league system size
BTW, Pierzynski is the absolute worst, so he's likely exaggerating how bad Davis is to keep up his reputation, or just because he's an awful person. Davis is not a big league catcher yet (see other comment), but I'm sure he's not as bad as what was being said.
Someone on Twitter posed the question if you could change one sports event back in time, what would it be. My answer was the White Sox not winning the World Series in 2005. I actually liked that the broke their streak, but I would be taking away his WS ring in the process, so I'm fine with them waiting longer to break their drought.
The problem with Davis is that his bat was well ahead of his glove. He was drafted with them knowing he needed work behind the plate. He did not get that work. He made 78 starts at catcher in the minors. That's not even a decent amount for one season, but he did it from 2021-23. They completely rushed him to the majors, so there shouldn't be expectations that he would be a good catcher when he got there. The same could be said with his bat. Even when you throw in the DH/RF work, he didn't even put in one full season in the minors, yet people thought he was being held back. The minors exist for a reason. It's not bad to get a prospect when he's big league ready instead of letting him develop in the majors. That was actually considered normal forever.
So...... I think we've already all become aware that the MLB coaching team really isn't in the business of fixing hitters, so I think bringing Gonzales up- showing him what his weaknesses are, now helps him go back, and address them with the help of a coaching staff more geared to focus on him as the most important position player prospect on that team. I disagree and say that it is ideal. The timing is right, he's got some time to adjust, play, go to the AFL, and work hard in the offseason to be READY in 2024.
The problem though, is we've known the issue. For a while. It's nothing new. And in addition, saying he can go down to a staff more geared to focus on him, then what have they've been doing the last 3 years?
No.....i don't think you understand the ego of 1st rounders. They aren't going to change anything until they see that they cannot be succesful with it. Now he knows. He was doing well enough in AA and AAA overall. He failed in the majors. Now he knows what he needs to do.
You certainly implied all or most by your language. "No.....i don't think you understand the ego of 1st rounders." That or you don't understand the meaning of the word generalizations.
Not what i said. And i'm comparing the ego of 1st rounders to guys whom have had to bust their ass to get every promotion to keep getting a pay check. Its just different and its not a "take" its reality. Players are drafted high are drafted high because they have talent, and I don't blame them for not wanting to reinvent something until its broken. Its more or less common sense. When you fail, you make a change. That is now. And maybe its not trusting the coaches and the development team. We all complain about them CONSTANTLY, so do you think the players have more faith in them than we do? unlikely
I think I am just confused why you are speaking in absolutes for guys that I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that you have never met. Each player is unique, so stating that there is only one prevailing mindset is an interesting take
Come on lol now we're blaming first round ego? I'm not saying give up on Nicky G, but, you're really trying to find any and all the excuses to explain away a large outstanding issue that's been known.
I'm not blaming anything because i don't think there is anything TO blame. Its just understanding reality man. Its not a problem, its what happens. And no......what coaches know and what the player knows is two different things. Guess what, now Nick knows and that's whats important.
You brought up the ego thing and generalized it to first rounders. I was just having fun with it. If you can’t take a joke, then I will quit messing with you.
Every top player has an ego, doesn't mean none of them change things, but getting top players to buy in to changes is different from player to player. Oneil refused to play outfield. Fact. Ke'Bryan didn't want to change his swing. Fact. Do you really think there's another answer for players like KeBryan and Nick whom have very obvious specific problems and having not fixed them for multiple years despite having all the natural talent to do so? I'd love to hear other theories instead of you A-holes bashing mine. Maybe Nick didn't want to change anything until he was actually healthy for a full season to see how it played out. Any any rate, how players adjust after failure is what makes them succesful, despite Nick not living up to 1st round hype, didn't fail until NOW.
I think pitch recognition is a big problem and just seeing it more often would help. When he started off so poorly last year, it looked like he was just swinging for fastballs on every pitch. Out in front of everything off-speed, and if a curve started out above the zone or a slider outside of the zone, he wasn't swinging. It's not like he was waiting back on the pitches and still swinging through them. Then he got injured for a long time last year. Let him play AAA for some time and see how it goes.
Honestly, the best thing for him might be playing winter ball in Mexico. From everything I've heard, fastballs are uncommon down there unless you have elite velocity. He will go down there and see nothing but off-speed pitches, and it will have nothing to do with his scouting report.
He is trailing his expected batting average and slugging by 40 and 50 points, respectively. Im sure we will get more out of him than those numbers, but does show a bit of bad luck in there. Also K and BB percentages are both very good
The next item on our agenda is to fix Keller. Since having that 2.44 ERA on May 23, Cy Keller has a 5.42 ERA.
BASICALLY, he was an ace for about a year counting the second half of 2022 and the first two months of 2023. Now, he is just another #6 SP, the kind Pirate fans are all too familiar with.
Nope.....definitely not. Issue is release point. he's letting go of his pitches lower and that change of plane is leaving his pitches flat and hittable. He's just got to fix it.
Think about how long it took them to find an issue with Ro’s delivery and you’ll have your answer. It takes them forever to diagnose anything. This organization is so depressing.
I once worked for a company where the big bosses were prone to hire and promote sycophants. The sycophants under them liked to hire and promote other sycophants. It's a personality type that attracts its like. The Pirates are a similar organization, and it starts at the top. That is certainly what it looks like from the outside after watching this organization for 20 years under Nutting. Everyone is a yes-man and no one ever seems to know what they are doing. Huntington was the closest the Pirates have come to finding a sycophant who had a modicum of competence.
The real benefit for Nick will be the ability to play every day and to be able to work on what he now knows he must master if he is to be a regular with a long career in the Show. Playing sporadically in Pgh will not be as much benefit as playing every day in Indy.
He’s known all along that he can’t hit the curve. Even his new approach didn’t help. I am not optimistic. I’m thinking Peguero is our new 2ndbasmena of the future.
If it requires him to re-make his swing, he's now got 6 months to do it. He has to make that call that his swing plane will not work to be able to hit offspeed pitches
I musta misread the narrative then. OR I am confusing him with some other batter that needs fixing. OR I am misremembering something they worked on with him to cut down on his K’s and help him see spin better. OR your eye is lying to you. 🤣🤣🤣
Nicky G needs to gain access to one of those super advanced pitching machines that can spin big league level stuff and just run it into the ground this offseason. I don't know if it is the actual recognition of offspeed/breaking stuff or tracking it well enough to make contact, but he is pretty much at his ceiling unless he learns how to work through this
Excellent case work on the issues with Gonzales. His work was VG in college, but playing for New Mexico State in the West Coast Conference was probably not the same type of pitching he might have been exposed to in the SEC, PAC 12, Big 12, etc. And that is only the hitting side of this.
On the Fielding side of this, the Pirates have gone in a different direction since drafting Gonzales 1-7 in 2020. They now demand MI's who can play multiple positions. At the MLB level, he is a second baseman only. He is competing for PT with guys who can play 2B and other positions such as Peguero, Bae, Marcano, and Triolo. BTW, Triolo should be seeing time in CF and 1B now that Hayes is back.
I hoped that Gonzales and Castro would be packaged in trades, because I did not see any future for them with the Pirates. Castro was picked up by Philly on a one-for-one deal for a LHSP, but Gonzales was not included in the Hill, Santana/Choi trades. I wonder if anyone even asked?
Castro was 3B, 2B; Bae is 2B, CF; Marcano is 2B, OF, and SS(?), Peguero is SS/2B at the MLB level, and Triolo was a 2 time GG 3B in the minors, and has been played at SS, CF, and if he can field at 3B he'd be a damn good 2B.
Just because shelton played Gonzales at SS does not mean he is any better at SS than Castro or Bae - none of those 3 are what I would refer to as being an MLB SS.
I don't even understand why we draft 2nd baseman anymore. Draft shortstops, they can always play 2nd. We refuse to draft first baseman because of our idiot idea that anyone can play first, but we fail to realize that 2nd quite realistically can be played by anyone whom is right handed and under 220 pounds.
The Pirates have a long history of ignoring the importance of fielding in the middle of the field. I can't remember the last time they had a good defensive 2B, SS, and CF in the same lineup. Do we have to go back to the days of Jay Bell, Jose Lind, and Van Slyke to find the closest example?
"safe" college bats, amirite?
Just watching Brian Kenny on MLB - 5 Atlanta Braves in the Top 30 of XWOBA. Yes they are all very talented individual players, but I wonder if any of the Pirate Brass know who their hitting coaches are? Yes, it is difficult to buy talent, but knowledgeable hitting coaches are not that expensive. Sure I know that Shelton was a hitting coach at one or two stops along the way, but . . . . . . ..
Not every hitter has to be physically "SPECIAL" in order to learn something that can at least elevate them beyond where they are at currently in the batters box! Seeing the ball is Step 1, and Step 2 is putting the ball in play - then work from there.
Just watching Brian Kenny on MLB - 5 Atlanta Braves in the Top 30 of XWOBA. Yes they are all very talented individual players, but I wonder if any of the Pirate Brass know who their hitting coaches are? Yes, it is difficult to buy talent, but knowledgeable hitting coaches are not that expensive. Sure I know that Shelton was a hitting coach at one or two stops along the way, but . . . . . . ..
Not every hitter has to be physically "SPECIAL" in order to learn something that can at least elevate them beyond where they are at currently in the batters box! Seeing the ball is Step 1, and Step 2 is putting the ball in play - then work from there.
Got a Suero sighting in the FCL. Also, I didnt realize how many freaking players we have on that team until just now scrolling down the boxscore. Gotta love the reduced minor league system size
i don't see why they don't have two fcl teams. unless they aren't allowed to do that anymore?
looked around. other teams do indeed have 2 fcl teams. so idk
I guess AJ Pierzynski doesn’t like the look of Henry Davis behind the plate.
https://pittsburghbaseballnow.com/perrotto-time-to-really-find-out-about-henry-davis/
I listened to him last night and AJ is full of it
He had problem with one pitch and blabbered on the whole inning about it
Nobody was on and Tank o´ley´d at one ball that was way outside and just tapped it on his glove
Overblown AJ and goofball fox plastic guy had nothing else pleasant to say about our current ballteam so they filled time talking about this nonsense
BTW, Pierzynski is the absolute worst, so he's likely exaggerating how bad Davis is to keep up his reputation, or just because he's an awful person. Davis is not a big league catcher yet (see other comment), but I'm sure he's not as bad as what was being said.
Someone on Twitter posed the question if you could change one sports event back in time, what would it be. My answer was the White Sox not winning the World Series in 2005. I actually liked that the broke their streak, but I would be taking away his WS ring in the process, so I'm fine with them waiting longer to break their drought.
Unfortunately, AJ isn’t the only one. Davis needs LOTS of work per many, many other people. The question is now, how does he get it?
Or, does he even need to work on his catching? We’ve got Endy and Delay. Let him learn RF or 1b, assuming his bat will play.
The problem with Davis is that his bat was well ahead of his glove. He was drafted with them knowing he needed work behind the plate. He did not get that work. He made 78 starts at catcher in the minors. That's not even a decent amount for one season, but he did it from 2021-23. They completely rushed him to the majors, so there shouldn't be expectations that he would be a good catcher when he got there. The same could be said with his bat. Even when you throw in the DH/RF work, he didn't even put in one full season in the minors, yet people thought he was being held back. The minors exist for a reason. It's not bad to get a prospect when he's big league ready instead of letting him develop in the majors. That was actually considered normal forever.
Preach.
So…..send him back to AAA then?
So...... I think we've already all become aware that the MLB coaching team really isn't in the business of fixing hitters, so I think bringing Gonzales up- showing him what his weaknesses are, now helps him go back, and address them with the help of a coaching staff more geared to focus on him as the most important position player prospect on that team. I disagree and say that it is ideal. The timing is right, he's got some time to adjust, play, go to the AFL, and work hard in the offseason to be READY in 2024.
The problem though, is we've known the issue. For a while. It's nothing new. And in addition, saying he can go down to a staff more geared to focus on him, then what have they've been doing the last 3 years?
No.....i don't think you understand the ego of 1st rounders. They aren't going to change anything until they see that they cannot be succesful with it. Now he knows. He was doing well enough in AA and AAA overall. He failed in the majors. Now he knows what he needs to do.
Putting all first round draft picks in a huge ego and unwilling to change bucket is an interesting take
have you heard of generalizations? I don't remember using the word "all" anywhere
You certainly implied all or most by your language. "No.....i don't think you understand the ego of 1st rounders." That or you don't understand the meaning of the word generalizations.
I implied most. Period. You may review the responses from people whom are choosing to extrapolate on my wording incorrectly.
No I haven't, what does it mean?
Not what i said. And i'm comparing the ego of 1st rounders to guys whom have had to bust their ass to get every promotion to keep getting a pay check. Its just different and its not a "take" its reality. Players are drafted high are drafted high because they have talent, and I don't blame them for not wanting to reinvent something until its broken. Its more or less common sense. When you fail, you make a change. That is now. And maybe its not trusting the coaches and the development team. We all complain about them CONSTANTLY, so do you think the players have more faith in them than we do? unlikely
I think I am just confused why you are speaking in absolutes for guys that I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that you have never met. Each player is unique, so stating that there is only one prevailing mindset is an interesting take
Come on lol now we're blaming first round ego? I'm not saying give up on Nicky G, but, you're really trying to find any and all the excuses to explain away a large outstanding issue that's been known.
I'm not blaming anything because i don't think there is anything TO blame. Its just understanding reality man. Its not a problem, its what happens. And no......what coaches know and what the player knows is two different things. Guess what, now Nick knows and that's whats important.
With all due respect, but the irony of you saying, "it's just understanding reality, man".
I guess Henry and Skenes are gonna be worthless until we fix their egos.
Lee, don't troll me. If you want to disagree with what i said fine, but do not twist it to create your own meaning, I don't appreciate it.
You brought up the ego thing and generalized it to first rounders. I was just having fun with it. If you can’t take a joke, then I will quit messing with you.
Even if ego was the issue, that would also then be on the front office and development team for incorrectly assessing and addressing the issue.
Every top player has an ego, doesn't mean none of them change things, but getting top players to buy in to changes is different from player to player. Oneil refused to play outfield. Fact. Ke'Bryan didn't want to change his swing. Fact. Do you really think there's another answer for players like KeBryan and Nick whom have very obvious specific problems and having not fixed them for multiple years despite having all the natural talent to do so? I'd love to hear other theories instead of you A-holes bashing mine. Maybe Nick didn't want to change anything until he was actually healthy for a full season to see how it played out. Any any rate, how players adjust after failure is what makes them succesful, despite Nick not living up to 1st round hype, didn't fail until NOW.
If you can’t hit the curve, what steps can be taken to fix it? They’ve known about this problem for quite some time.
I think pitch recognition is a big problem and just seeing it more often would help. When he started off so poorly last year, it looked like he was just swinging for fastballs on every pitch. Out in front of everything off-speed, and if a curve started out above the zone or a slider outside of the zone, he wasn't swinging. It's not like he was waiting back on the pitches and still swinging through them. Then he got injured for a long time last year. Let him play AAA for some time and see how it goes.
Honestly, the best thing for him might be playing winter ball in Mexico. From everything I've heard, fastballs are uncommon down there unless you have elite velocity. He will go down there and see nothing but off-speed pitches, and it will have nothing to do with his scouting report.
Good thought. Therefore, the Bucs won’t do it. 😁😁
Is Henry Davis in danger of being sent back down?
I wouldnt think theres much chance at all that happens
I don't see a glaring hole that Henry needs to fix unlike Nick.
Agreed.
He's gotta make *some* adjustments to his swing so that he improves his poor contact quality, but that's exactly what we say in high-A and AA as well.
He is trailing his expected batting average and slugging by 40 and 50 points, respectively. Im sure we will get more out of him than those numbers, but does show a bit of bad luck in there. Also K and BB percentages are both very good
The next item on our agenda is to fix Keller. Since having that 2.44 ERA on May 23, Cy Keller has a 5.42 ERA.
BASICALLY, he was an ace for about a year counting the second half of 2022 and the first two months of 2023. Now, he is just another #6 SP, the kind Pirate fans are all too familiar with.
Maybe BC SHOULDA traded him at the deadline?
Nope.....definitely not. Issue is release point. he's letting go of his pitches lower and that change of plane is leaving his pitches flat and hittable. He's just got to fix it.
He’s had 2.5 months to fix it. What has Marin been doing all of this time?
Think about how long it took them to find an issue with Ro’s delivery and you’ll have your answer. It takes them forever to diagnose anything. This organization is so depressing.
I once worked for a company where the big bosses were prone to hire and promote sycophants. The sycophants under them liked to hire and promote other sycophants. It's a personality type that attracts its like. The Pirates are a similar organization, and it starts at the top. That is certainly what it looks like from the outside after watching this organization for 20 years under Nutting. Everyone is a yes-man and no one ever seems to know what they are doing. Huntington was the closest the Pirates have come to finding a sycophant who had a modicum of competence.
Good article describing this, which I assume you have seen but not sure if others have: https://www.mlb.com/news/mitch-keller-allows-eight-runs-in-start-against-brewers
‘ Gonzales was a collective 5-for-47 (.106) against breaking and off-speed pitches’.
This is the kind of stuff that you only get here! If you can’t hit the curve……
The real benefit for Nick will be the ability to play every day and to be able to work on what he now knows he must master if he is to be a regular with a long career in the Show. Playing sporadically in Pgh will not be as much benefit as playing every day in Indy.
He’s known all along that he can’t hit the curve. Even his new approach didn’t help. I am not optimistic. I’m thinking Peguero is our new 2ndbasmena of the future.
If it requires him to re-make his swing, he's now got 6 months to do it. He has to make that call that his swing plane will not work to be able to hit offspeed pitches
They already remade his swing and approach once.
There's nothing to my eye that looks a bit different.
Sometimes those articles are more narrative than substance...
I musta misread the narrative then. OR I am confusing him with some other batter that needs fixing. OR I am misremembering something they worked on with him to cut down on his K’s and help him see spin better. OR your eye is lying to you. 🤣🤣🤣
Oh your reading and memory are just fine!
I'm just saying that certain people writing those narratives may or may not have a history of exaggeration in these kind of things.
I have no doubt that the org SAID Nick was making swing and approach changes, far less convinced they actually happened.
Nicky G needs to gain access to one of those super advanced pitching machines that can spin big league level stuff and just run it into the ground this offseason. I don't know if it is the actual recognition of offspeed/breaking stuff or tracking it well enough to make contact, but he is pretty much at his ceiling unless he learns how to work through this
Excellent case work on the issues with Gonzales. His work was VG in college, but playing for New Mexico State in the West Coast Conference was probably not the same type of pitching he might have been exposed to in the SEC, PAC 12, Big 12, etc. And that is only the hitting side of this.
On the Fielding side of this, the Pirates have gone in a different direction since drafting Gonzales 1-7 in 2020. They now demand MI's who can play multiple positions. At the MLB level, he is a second baseman only. He is competing for PT with guys who can play 2B and other positions such as Peguero, Bae, Marcano, and Triolo. BTW, Triolo should be seeing time in CF and 1B now that Hayes is back.
I hoped that Gonzales and Castro would be packaged in trades, because I did not see any future for them with the Pirates. Castro was picked up by Philly on a one-for-one deal for a LHSP, but Gonzales was not included in the Hill, Santana/Choi trades. I wonder if anyone even asked?
Bae and Triolo are no more of a shortstop than Nick is, and Marcano was well below average there as well.
Castro was 3B, 2B; Bae is 2B, CF; Marcano is 2B, OF, and SS(?), Peguero is SS/2B at the MLB level, and Triolo was a 2 time GG 3B in the minors, and has been played at SS, CF, and if he can field at 3B he'd be a damn good 2B.
Just because shelton played Gonzales at SS does not mean he is any better at SS than Castro or Bae - none of those 3 are what I would refer to as being an MLB SS.
I don't even understand why we draft 2nd baseman anymore. Draft shortstops, they can always play 2nd. We refuse to draft first baseman because of our idiot idea that anyone can play first, but we fail to realize that 2nd quite realistically can be played by anyone whom is right handed and under 220 pounds.
The Pirates have a long history of ignoring the importance of fielding in the middle of the field. I can't remember the last time they had a good defensive 2B, SS, and CF in the same lineup. Do we have to go back to the days of Jay Bell, Jose Lind, and Van Slyke to find the closest example?
No. Freddie Sanchez, Jack Wilson, and Andrew Mccutchen were actually all above average defensively before they were separated.
nevermind my timing was off. cutch came the year after jack and freddie were traded
I finally agree with you on sometching. 😎😁
Perhaps other clubs saw their warts, too and didn’t want them?