Endy is clearly gassed and it's been a super, super bummer to watch Liover give back every shred of offensive development he seemed to make over the last year.
I've not been a fan of this YOLO style of rebuild player dev in which they just throw half-baked prospects to the wolves for two main reasons.
One, the modern history of the game inarguably shows that banal, patient advancement of players through an org is perfectly capable of building championship ballclubs. There's no problem to solve here.
And two, this method is completely untenable the minute this club has the audacity to start trying to actually win baseball games. You don't win a pennant with this kind of roster construction and the entire reason for shit-canning the last front office was their inability to extend a small window of contention. Even if the Pirates were successfully developing players this way - and they very clearly aren't - there's no way to both do that AND extend the window of the "core" with which you just succeeded.
What I *didn't* expect, tho, was the demoralization of repeated joy seeing a hot prospect promoted followed by the crushing reality of getting their teeth kicked in most nights. To me, as a fan, I'd much rather go back to watching big leaguers play big league games and prospects play in the minors where they belong.
Gotta imagine few if any of us will ever be in a position where your ultimate achievement turns into a public nightmare so fast. Baseball is one hell of a humbling game. Chin up, kid.
That's going to be a mini project I do over the next couple of days. See if that's actually improved, I know I saw him hit a double or two recently off of breaking pitches, so he has SOME hits
CSN and Nick Gonzales are both VG prospects, but both are missing key skills needed to be a part of the Pirates future plans. The Pirates have already filled their future needs in the MI and at Catcher, but are still going into 2024 with an eye out for a competent defensive CF who can be an average to average + hitter. A RH hitter with some power and the ability to fill-in at another position would fit nicely.
I don’t agree about Gonzales. I still think he has a lot of upside, but that’ll play itself out one way or another.
The CF just might be Gorski. He’s a much better defensive outfielder and has a stronger throwing arm than the beloved Suwinski and has both power and speed. He’ll need a chance to play in the major leagues to see how he does of course, which is something the Pirates have given him yet.
Suwinski’s gonna remain on the roster because people love his home runs but CF is not a good spot for his average to slightly above average defense and arm. I think he’d fit at first base if he can learn to play the position. Why not, Josh Bell did it and Suwinski’s a better athlete than him. Left handed first basemen have an advantage at first and he has the power people want there if nothing else.
Gorski isn't an major league caliber centerfielder, he's just not. He's a below average hitter in the minors and he's older than Jack. I don't know what his defense is like...have you watched him play CF?
The low OB% and the high K rate just doesn't work. Considering he's going to be 26, the chances of him figuring all out is probably a pipe dream.
Man, I get it Doc. I'm pretty sure everyone that reads your posts gets it. You don't like Jack, you ignore the value he provides and would prefer a warm body over Jack. That warm body is Matt Gorski. Bottom line is Jack is a good player. MLB average OBP = .320 Jack is .335. MLB average slugging % = .415, Jack is .452. By wRC+ (imo is the best way to judge a hitter) he's 10% better than league average. These are all very good. Gorski can't do any of these things as a 25-year-old facing AA arms.
I like the idea of Jack learning 1B more than having Gorski be Plan A for CF next year.
I think getting Harrison Bader out of NY is a much better Plan A. He’s certainly a health risk, but when healthy he would be a huge upgrade defensively and his bat will play at PNC Park.
Jack isn't a 1bmen. He needs to be on the grass, I'd play him in RF if they can get a CF'er. But, we've been down this road before with the PIrates...They would sign a no hit, defensive guy like Jarrod Dyson and by June, Suwinski would be back in CF.
Big off-season for Ben, he needs to make some baseball trades.
Jack is like the weather in Pittsburgh, a study of extremes that averages out over time. I would much prefer a cleanup hitter who hits more like the weather down here in GA.
Endy is clearly gassed and it's been a super, super bummer to watch Liover give back every shred of offensive development he seemed to make over the last year.
I've not been a fan of this YOLO style of rebuild player dev in which they just throw half-baked prospects to the wolves for two main reasons.
One, the modern history of the game inarguably shows that banal, patient advancement of players through an org is perfectly capable of building championship ballclubs. There's no problem to solve here.
And two, this method is completely untenable the minute this club has the audacity to start trying to actually win baseball games. You don't win a pennant with this kind of roster construction and the entire reason for shit-canning the last front office was their inability to extend a small window of contention. Even if the Pirates were successfully developing players this way - and they very clearly aren't - there's no way to both do that AND extend the window of the "core" with which you just succeeded.
What I *didn't* expect, tho, was the demoralization of repeated joy seeing a hot prospect promoted followed by the crushing reality of getting their teeth kicked in most nights. To me, as a fan, I'd much rather go back to watching big leaguers play big league games and prospects play in the minors where they belong.
It's quite obvious they were all rushed. Not a single one of them are even league average bat.
List of guys that made their debut the last 2 years by measure of wRC+
Endy - 62
Peguero - 84
Gonzales - 64
Bae - 67
Williams - 51
Marcano - 68
CSN - 17
Henry Davis - 67
This isn't on Haines or Shelty, this is promoting guys before they're ready to succeed.
Gotta imagine few if any of us will ever be in a position where your ultimate achievement turns into a public nightmare so fast. Baseball is one hell of a humbling game. Chin up, kid.
Hoping a vet or three made sure to talk with him after the game
a lot of middle infield options on the way
Cheng, Jebb, Dariel, Brannigan, Termarr
Has he shown improvement against breaking/off speed pitches since being sent down? Or is he just feasting on worse fastballs?
Hopefully it’s more of the former and less of the latter.
That's going to be a mini project I do over the next couple of days. See if that's actually improved, I know I saw him hit a double or two recently off of breaking pitches, so he has SOME hits
CSN and Nick Gonzales are both VG prospects, but both are missing key skills needed to be a part of the Pirates future plans. The Pirates have already filled their future needs in the MI and at Catcher, but are still going into 2024 with an eye out for a competent defensive CF who can be an average to average + hitter. A RH hitter with some power and the ability to fill-in at another position would fit nicely.
I don’t agree about Gonzales. I still think he has a lot of upside, but that’ll play itself out one way or another.
The CF just might be Gorski. He’s a much better defensive outfielder and has a stronger throwing arm than the beloved Suwinski and has both power and speed. He’ll need a chance to play in the major leagues to see how he does of course, which is something the Pirates have given him yet.
Suwinski’s gonna remain on the roster because people love his home runs but CF is not a good spot for his average to slightly above average defense and arm. I think he’d fit at first base if he can learn to play the position. Why not, Josh Bell did it and Suwinski’s a better athlete than him. Left handed first basemen have an advantage at first and he has the power people want there if nothing else.
Gorski isn't an major league caliber centerfielder, he's just not. He's a below average hitter in the minors and he's older than Jack. I don't know what his defense is like...have you watched him play CF?
The low OB% and the high K rate just doesn't work. Considering he's going to be 26, the chances of him figuring all out is probably a pipe dream.
Man, I get it Doc. I'm pretty sure everyone that reads your posts gets it. You don't like Jack, you ignore the value he provides and would prefer a warm body over Jack. That warm body is Matt Gorski. Bottom line is Jack is a good player. MLB average OBP = .320 Jack is .335. MLB average slugging % = .415, Jack is .452. By wRC+ (imo is the best way to judge a hitter) he's 10% better than league average. These are all very good. Gorski can't do any of these things as a 25-year-old facing AA arms.
If only we had drafted crews...
2 things that Doc types - Crews and Suwinski.
His universe is going to explode in 4 years when Suwinski is the better player.
I like the idea of Jack learning 1B more than having Gorski be Plan A for CF next year.
I think getting Harrison Bader out of NY is a much better Plan A. He’s certainly a health risk, but when healthy he would be a huge upgrade defensively and his bat will play at PNC Park.
Bader is the name that keeps popping up in my head too..
Any other intriguing RH-hitting CFs on the market this winter?
Jack isn't a 1bmen. He needs to be on the grass, I'd play him in RF if they can get a CF'er. But, we've been down this road before with the PIrates...They would sign a no hit, defensive guy like Jarrod Dyson and by June, Suwinski would be back in CF.
Big off-season for Ben, he needs to make some baseball trades.
Jack is like the weather in Pittsburgh, a study of extremes that averages out over time. I would much prefer a cleanup hitter who hits more like the weather down here in GA.
He's not a cleanup hitter on a good team. He'd be a good 7th hitter
Truly is remarkable what a relative layup this is, only for it to be inevitably turned into a cluster.
Remember a decade-plus ago when the Brewers just routinely embarrassed the Pirates? Feels like the Cubs have taken over that role now.
The common denominator here is...;)
The Cubs are just the lucky beneficiaries of the Pirates embarrassing themselves.
Certainly the case this season.