Pretty neat tidbit from Mackey about Skenes paying $10 to watch the Marauders before he signed. In case anybody is interested in these things, there was a buzz at LECOM last night when Oliva Dunn showed up and took her seat in INF Box 1. She was surrounded by about 25 young guys wanting selfies with her before a Marauder official brought her up to the press box for some privacy. Hey, I'm just reporting.
The Marauders guy said a lot of LSU fans were there, with the team selling about 800 tickets between Monday/Tuesday. Doesn't sound like much, but a mid-summer game there with no giveaway could easily draw 200 fans total. Seeing as the Pirates own the Marauders, maybe that's why Skenes will be there Sunday too. I think a lot of people were turned off by him going one inning...though he definitely wasn't going more than two innings after throwing just 11 pitches in his pro debut last week.
Actually, my first thought after getting there was how many people were walking round with LSU hats and shirts. It surprised me. I was thinking since they play across the state in Jupiter starting next Tuesday, it doesn't make sense to send him all the way there for an inning or two. Sunday crowds tend to be pretty low so you're probably right about his next start.
Could probably survive on bido and jackson both going for one some time through the order, though wouldnt expect much. I assume ortiz is the next to be back and eat innings
There will be a lot of arms back and forth from Indy to cover innings for Bido and Jackson. I just don't see how they can in good faith call-up either Roansy or Ortiz until they figure it out in AAA. Ro especially. Allred and Jones have era's over 5, although Jones FIP is decent, I'd imagine they want him to use the minors for development.
I don't see them adding anyone to the 40 man that doesn't have to go on it at the end of the season. I think they'll keep Jones in Indy, might get a Ashcraft or MacGregor call-up in September. Wolf may get a cameo because he's on the 40. I very well could be wrong though.
‘ In addition, Contreras’ velocity continues to struggle. His max velo on the night was 93.9 mph and averaged 92.6, which is 1.7 mph less than his average.
Contreras also used his new sinker five times and sat in the 86-88 mph range. In addition, Contreras’ sinker averaged 25 inches of vertical break and 16 inches of horizontal break.’
We wish some guys had changes up with that much separation, ahem, keller lol. If roansy becomes rich hill then we have failed more than i thought possible
Of all the young guys who’ve come up, Davis generated the most excitement, and he’s struggling. The reaction to Peguero, otoh, was mixed at best, and he’s arguably been the team’s best player.
Sometimes you ask questions that you already know the answers.
If they really want him to play RF, let him learn the position in the minors. They admittingly rushed him because of the bat. Now the bat is well below average and he's well below a replacement level player.
I guess you have to believe the scouts sometimes. Peguero looked like crap last year and early this year. Now it’s, Damn, this is the guy he’s supposed to be.
You can easily tell the tools are there, potentially the biggest tools on the active roster right now? (i dunno if thats too far but gets the idea across)
I'm interested in seeing where the Pirates will be at the end of the season. Everyone rates them well now, but they are going to have some higher ranked prospects graduate. Rodriguez and Peguero seem definite, probably around September 1st for both. Some people rank Triolo high (Fangraphs) so he's just about the graduate. He already graduated due to service days for Pipeline, so that won't matter for them.
Then there is Priester. He could possibly graduate still, but if he doesn't, then his stock will take a major hit when they re-rank players, so either way it won't be good.
Then only other possibilities of note are Gonzales and Mlodzinski, which are both up in the air for now (Mlod reached the service days so Pipeline axed him already). Bido should graduate too, but no one ranked him high enough for that to matter. I guess Alika Williams could too, but that hitting will probably keep him eligible unless he suddenly starts getting more playing time. He's back-end top 30 for most, so another one that won't have any real effect.
I hadn't realized that Pipeline still had Priester with a 60 grade fastball. I'm guessing because he was "up to 97" last year, that they were still just going off of velo.
There are definitely going to be some major adjustments made with his numbers if he is still eligible at the end of the year. The Fangraphs rating of him put him at $21M value, which is a big difference than the $6M one grade lower. There's no way that top grade sticks unless we see some crazy progress to end the season (in which case, he might not be eligible anyway).
As someone said though, maybe lower ranked players make up for the adjustments. Peguero might be one of those players who would benefit, but I definitely don't want to see him still eligible at the end of the season. I think he's 64 at-bats away. I'd like to see that happen in two weeks. Losing Endy from the rankings will be a big hit.
Which, I guess kind of leads the discussion into an area of, how exactly should we tabulate farm rankings? Saying they have quantity over quality is probably fair, while at same time, should they really be seen as a "top farm" just because they have more "cup of coffee" prospects than most? That's why the Fangraphs ranking is kind of, "ehhhh, idk". In terms or impact, it's weak, at least until about a year from now when we see where pitching development is.
They have a plethora of prospects that will likely see the majors, but majority of those players will be lucky to carve out a bench role. I think they're building up to being able to churn through capable relievers which is good, but not necessarily something to hang their hat on when those relievers came by way of their inability to develop capable starters.
I used to think depth was good to have, as in if you have a strong 21-50 in your top 50, that should count for something. In reality, all if should count for is a tiebreaker between two similar systems at the top end. Impact talent is what wins titles. These prospects that profile as middle innings relievers, fourth outfielders and backup infielders are a dime a dozen among minor league free agents.
Another thing I think many people miss is that it's just not as impressive as it used to be to make it to the majors. MLB used 1,505 players in 2021 and 1,495 players last year. This year is 1,352 right now, with slightly expanded rosters coming up next month. These people who quote how special it is to make the majors by saying all of the big league players ever wouldn't fill a stadium, don't realize that a majority of those guys are from the last 10-15 years. It used to be tough.
Back in the 1920's, baseball was beyond any popularity you could imagine now. It was much tougher making the majors then. Due to the popularity difference factored in with the population difference, the eras should have the same amount of players, but the 1919 MLB teams used 479 players. That's 1/3 of what they use today. So basically, it's easier to find those depth options and easier for prospects to turn into depth options.
When you see those numbers from this year and the last two years, you're basically seeing that the Opening Day roster is only about 55% of the players who will be in the majors is any given season and 700+ minor league guys will get into games. Teams are going to naturally have better success rates through the draft/international as time goes along if this trend continues, and especially if expansion happens.
The point is that getting depth to the majors isn't as big of a deal anymore, but those players just bring down the talent level, they don't make impacts. That's why impact talent should be rated so much higher than depth. Picture how many depth players for the Pirates (guys rated after 30 in the system) it would take to trade for Paul Skenes. You probably couldn't pick the best 20 and make a package that they would even consider for a second. And that's coming from a Pirates system with strong depth.
I agree. The whole depth seemed great, in theory, till none of those players were being developed for nothing more than upper level roster fillers.
That in itself is important, as we continuously have found out these past few seasons with having trouble filling out a Triple-A and Double-A roster with capable/healthy players. Cam Alldred having to become a full-time starter. Having to sign Beau Sulser back from KBO to take starts. The glut of outfielders that have all gone nowhere. Seriously, I looked at 2021 and went, "What happened?"
At the same time, the goal is to build a competitive MLB roster and not just competitive upper level squads. Now they're at a point where, the high profiled bats in the majors NEED to hit, cause there isn't another cavalry coming till MAYBE 2 years from now. Going to become real pitching reliant.
Going to need some low system guys (YDLS, white jr, etc) to have a big last few weeks to fill the top if we want to keep any thing near this ranking of a farm system
If I am bold enough to count our future as bright, might it be *gasp* the cardinals that have the least young talent on its way! Really going to have to hope our stable of young pitching can quiet all the bats on their way (especially cincy)
Pretty neat tidbit from Mackey about Skenes paying $10 to watch the Marauders before he signed. In case anybody is interested in these things, there was a buzz at LECOM last night when Oliva Dunn showed up and took her seat in INF Box 1. She was surrounded by about 25 young guys wanting selfies with her before a Marauder official brought her up to the press box for some privacy. Hey, I'm just reporting.
The Marauders guy said a lot of LSU fans were there, with the team selling about 800 tickets between Monday/Tuesday. Doesn't sound like much, but a mid-summer game there with no giveaway could easily draw 200 fans total. Seeing as the Pirates own the Marauders, maybe that's why Skenes will be there Sunday too. I think a lot of people were turned off by him going one inning...though he definitely wasn't going more than two innings after throwing just 11 pitches in his pro debut last week.
Actually, my first thought after getting there was how many people were walking round with LSU hats and shirts. It surprised me. I was thinking since they play across the state in Jupiter starting next Tuesday, it doesn't make sense to send him all the way there for an inning or two. Sunday crowds tend to be pretty low so you're probably right about his next start.
This is the stuff we need! Skenes + Dunn going to sell a ton of tickets all around
I guess you could say it was a package deal at 1-1
Big brain value, the marketing team's job could get a whole lot easier in selling tickets lol
Dunn?
Dunne
Hip LSU gymnast/social media person that all the youngins follow these days
I’ll have to take your word on that. :)
Lee, Think Farah Fawcett in mid 70's.
I can’t. I’m married now. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
We are down to three viable SPs. I assume Bido will be used as a three inning opener of sorts?
Will Ortiz and/or Roansy be recalled? What about Allred or Jared Jones?
Could probably survive on bido and jackson both going for one some time through the order, though wouldnt expect much. I assume ortiz is the next to be back and eat innings
I would think they could piggyback each other making up one SP? Both seem to get hammered after a couple innings. And, what of Hatch?
Uhhh hope he Hatches a few golden eggs? Thats all i got for him lol, hes probably fine for 1ish times through the order too, unless hes not
Well, so far, he is 1 for 2. That 50% makes him a #5 SP, right? 😎😎
Keller
Oviedo
Falter
Bido
Jackson
There will be a lot of arms back and forth from Indy to cover innings for Bido and Jackson. I just don't see how they can in good faith call-up either Roansy or Ortiz until they figure it out in AAA. Ro especially. Allred and Jones have era's over 5, although Jones FIP is decent, I'd imagine they want him to use the minors for development.
Do we let Skenes pitch, say, a two inning opener in Sept?
I would buy a ticket for that lol
No.
I heard something along the lines of one or two more appearance in A-, then Altoona!
Not even for a PR stunt?
I think jones is best suited for a one start cameo late in the season, no real reason to push him beyond that imo
I don't see them adding anyone to the 40 man that doesn't have to go on it at the end of the season. I think they'll keep Jones in Indy, might get a Ashcraft or MacGregor call-up in September. Wolf may get a cameo because he's on the 40. I very well could be wrong though.
From PnP on Roansy
‘ In addition, Contreras’ velocity continues to struggle. His max velo on the night was 93.9 mph and averaged 92.6, which is 1.7 mph less than his average.
Contreras also used his new sinker five times and sat in the 86-88 mph range. In addition, Contreras’ sinker averaged 25 inches of vertical break and 16 inches of horizontal break.’
This is absolutely not viable, i dunno if he needs shut down or what but that velo isnt going to get it done
I'm questioning the sinker velo...those sound like changeups.
Yeah until we hear it from the team I don't see why we'd assume those aren't changeups.
We wish some guys had changes up with that much separation, ahem, keller lol. If roansy becomes rich hill then we have failed more than i thought possible
AM…..did you post that YT link for Skenes? I had fun at my dinner, but not THAT much fun, lol.
Nope working on that today, so it will probably be on tomorrow's rundown
No prob. I got to see a couple of pitches on YT. He is a BIG boy.
I jinxed McAdoo. I watched his first two ABs then switched over. The Foo magic left him after that. My bad.
Of all the young guys who’ve come up, Davis generated the most excitement, and he’s struggling. The reaction to Peguero, otoh, was mixed at best, and he’s arguably been the team’s best player.
Should he be sent down, a la Priester?
Sometimes you ask questions that you already know the answers.
If they really want him to play RF, let him learn the position in the minors. They admittingly rushed him because of the bat. Now the bat is well below average and he's well below a replacement level player.
Well, WE know the answer. But, do Ben and Sheltie? 😛😛🤭
Im very excited about what I have seen from Peggy so far! Not worried about davis long term, but hes on a long struggle bus right now
I guess you have to believe the scouts sometimes. Peguero looked like crap last year and early this year. Now it’s, Damn, this is the guy he’s supposed to be.
You can easily tell the tools are there, potentially the biggest tools on the active roster right now? (i dunno if thats too far but gets the idea across)
lol....I saw the DSL Black update and my first thought was "What the heck is Hunter Barco doing pitching in the DSL????".....
Pipeline is out with their team farm system rankings. How about 4 out of the top 5 being NL Central teams and then the Cardinals at 22.
I'm interested in seeing where the Pirates will be at the end of the season. Everyone rates them well now, but they are going to have some higher ranked prospects graduate. Rodriguez and Peguero seem definite, probably around September 1st for both. Some people rank Triolo high (Fangraphs) so he's just about the graduate. He already graduated due to service days for Pipeline, so that won't matter for them.
Then there is Priester. He could possibly graduate still, but if he doesn't, then his stock will take a major hit when they re-rank players, so either way it won't be good.
Then only other possibilities of note are Gonzales and Mlodzinski, which are both up in the air for now (Mlod reached the service days so Pipeline axed him already). Bido should graduate too, but no one ranked him high enough for that to matter. I guess Alika Williams could too, but that hitting will probably keep him eligible unless he suddenly starts getting more playing time. He's back-end top 30 for most, so another one that won't have any real effect.
I hadn't realized that Pipeline still had Priester with a 60 grade fastball. I'm guessing because he was "up to 97" last year, that they were still just going off of velo.
There are definitely going to be some major adjustments made with his numbers if he is still eligible at the end of the year. The Fangraphs rating of him put him at $21M value, which is a big difference than the $6M one grade lower. There's no way that top grade sticks unless we see some crazy progress to end the season (in which case, he might not be eligible anyway).
As someone said though, maybe lower ranked players make up for the adjustments. Peguero might be one of those players who would benefit, but I definitely don't want to see him still eligible at the end of the season. I think he's 64 at-bats away. I'd like to see that happen in two weeks. Losing Endy from the rankings will be a big hit.
Which, I guess kind of leads the discussion into an area of, how exactly should we tabulate farm rankings? Saying they have quantity over quality is probably fair, while at same time, should they really be seen as a "top farm" just because they have more "cup of coffee" prospects than most? That's why the Fangraphs ranking is kind of, "ehhhh, idk". In terms or impact, it's weak, at least until about a year from now when we see where pitching development is.
They have a plethora of prospects that will likely see the majors, but majority of those players will be lucky to carve out a bench role. I think they're building up to being able to churn through capable relievers which is good, but not necessarily something to hang their hat on when those relievers came by way of their inability to develop capable starters.
I used to think depth was good to have, as in if you have a strong 21-50 in your top 50, that should count for something. In reality, all if should count for is a tiebreaker between two similar systems at the top end. Impact talent is what wins titles. These prospects that profile as middle innings relievers, fourth outfielders and backup infielders are a dime a dozen among minor league free agents.
Another thing I think many people miss is that it's just not as impressive as it used to be to make it to the majors. MLB used 1,505 players in 2021 and 1,495 players last year. This year is 1,352 right now, with slightly expanded rosters coming up next month. These people who quote how special it is to make the majors by saying all of the big league players ever wouldn't fill a stadium, don't realize that a majority of those guys are from the last 10-15 years. It used to be tough.
Back in the 1920's, baseball was beyond any popularity you could imagine now. It was much tougher making the majors then. Due to the popularity difference factored in with the population difference, the eras should have the same amount of players, but the 1919 MLB teams used 479 players. That's 1/3 of what they use today. So basically, it's easier to find those depth options and easier for prospects to turn into depth options.
When you see those numbers from this year and the last two years, you're basically seeing that the Opening Day roster is only about 55% of the players who will be in the majors is any given season and 700+ minor league guys will get into games. Teams are going to naturally have better success rates through the draft/international as time goes along if this trend continues, and especially if expansion happens.
The point is that getting depth to the majors isn't as big of a deal anymore, but those players just bring down the talent level, they don't make impacts. That's why impact talent should be rated so much higher than depth. Picture how many depth players for the Pirates (guys rated after 30 in the system) it would take to trade for Paul Skenes. You probably couldn't pick the best 20 and make a package that they would even consider for a second. And that's coming from a Pirates system with strong depth.
I agree. The whole depth seemed great, in theory, till none of those players were being developed for nothing more than upper level roster fillers.
That in itself is important, as we continuously have found out these past few seasons with having trouble filling out a Triple-A and Double-A roster with capable/healthy players. Cam Alldred having to become a full-time starter. Having to sign Beau Sulser back from KBO to take starts. The glut of outfielders that have all gone nowhere. Seriously, I looked at 2021 and went, "What happened?"
At the same time, the goal is to build a competitive MLB roster and not just competitive upper level squads. Now they're at a point where, the high profiled bats in the majors NEED to hit, cause there isn't another cavalry coming till MAYBE 2 years from now. Going to become real pitching reliant.
The 60 looks to be roughly twice as high as it should be rn lol
All that matters is they are #1 now.
Just ask James Roberts
Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
The man gets his time in the sun!
Going to need some low system guys (YDLS, white jr, etc) to have a big last few weeks to fill the top if we want to keep any thing near this ranking of a farm system
I dislike the Crads so much that’s funny. Until I think about it a second.
Scares me into thinking about 2012-2016ish again and worried that we will be in a similar battle in a year or two
2015 REALLY sucked. Just another reason for one big NL Division. See Central, AL for another.
Ugh just absolute torture to think about what couldve been
I still remember playing the Cards. Pedro put us ahead with an extra inning HR. Radhames ‘bleepin’ Liz then gave up two runs to lose it!!
Wow theres a name i had blacked out of my memory lol
Early this year it looked like Comedy Central was back. Now, ugh, it looks like war for years ahead.
If I am bold enough to count our future as bright, might it be *gasp* the cardinals that have the least young talent on its way! Really going to have to hope our stable of young pitching can quiet all the bats on their way (especially cincy)
My first Bucco goal is to finally fin Sh ahead of the Cards. My second is to win the NL Central.
We should do both in the same year :)