165 Comments
User's avatar
bmcferren's avatar

two down, eleven more to go

Bart, Hayes, IKF, Pham, Reynolds, Keller, Heaney, Santana, Bednar, Ferguson, Borucki, xxxStratton, xxxFrazier

Expand full comment
WTM's avatar

Cherington.

There is only one.

Expand full comment
Bianco599's avatar

Thankfully. Or Nutz would hire him once he gets the nutz to fire this one.

Expand full comment
Dave's avatar

Who remembers that SS/CF we trade for 6-7 years ago that once hit like 30 hrs ( maybe 2x)in the minors. Then he said some team messed up his swing and could never repeat it. maybe we got him from the Padres. Can’t remember his name.

Expand full comment
Bianco599's avatar

I think that fits most dudes Ben has acquired over his years. Match Stick Marcano

Expand full comment
WTM's avatar

PG guy says it's 60% the Pirates will trade Hayes. Not that I put any stock in that stuff, but I thought I'd pass it along.

Expand full comment
CTBucco's avatar

The idea of the NYY acquiring Hayes was discussed on NY sports radio last night. The commentator and callers were in favor especially if Bednar was packaged. Of course, they didn’t try to address the return. They had previously discussed targeting Austin Riley and mentioned Dominguez as the return (not acknowledging that the Braves OF is already set - typical NYY fans).

Expand full comment
JRC21's avatar
4dEdited

The format was Andrew Filliponi giving him names and asking him to give percentage chances that they would be traded. FWIW he said 75% for Keller, 75% for Bednar, and 80% for Santana. He said there was only a 15% chance that Reynolds would be traded.

So if it’s just Hayes to the Yankees who do you get back? I’m not sure I’d even want Spencer Jones, but you don’t get him for Hayes alone. Otherwise, the Yankees position player prospect cupboard is pretty bare. In looking at their system they seem to win the annual contest for highest profile signings in Latin America, but except for Dominguez, few of them pan out. And even Dominguez is off to a solid, but not outstanding start as a regular this year.

Expand full comment
bmcferren's avatar

Too many teams want a third baseman

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

I think that they overestimate the market. I hope that Cherington does not do the same. Take whatever you can get.

Expand full comment
agent00's avatar

good

Expand full comment
MWT's avatar

Getting anything for Frazier is a plus. I would much rather have a “late blooming power hitting AAA shortstop” lottery ticket than a “you’re never going to know what this kid looks like cause he’s never going to play outside of the DSL” lottery ticket.

Bucs have a shortstop problem as soon as they move IKF with no viable options above A+ ball. Is Devanney the answer? Probably not, but he could be.

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

I think it is as good as they could possibly hope to get for Frazier. I am a little irritated at the Royals actually, because I think I would have wanted Pham and Frazier for Devanney.

Expand full comment
WTM's avatar

Sold!

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

Pham's been better for the past month than anyone who has played corner OF for the Royals this year. I don't like the Royals picking up Frazier and Pham again, but Devanney is mostly blocked, and he deserves a real shot in the majors before he completely ages out. They are giving up little for little, which is fine for a team that is in a very borderline position to make the post-season.

Expand full comment
bmcferren's avatar

they are both stealing playing time from first round pedigree Nick Yorke

Expand full comment
MWT's avatar

Nick Yorke who can’t play shortstop?

Expand full comment
bmcferren's avatar

Nick Stixx can with Yorke at second base

Expand full comment
MWT's avatar

Don’t love Nicky G at short, but I also don’t love IKF there either.

Expand full comment
bmcferren's avatar

Devanney fields the ball better than Stixx at shortstop?

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

Yes.

Expand full comment
MWT's avatar

That’s a fair point. I honestly don’t know, I can’t find much video on him in the field. I keep reading “the glove should be enough to get him on a major league roster” so I take that as him rating as at least an average defender at short

Expand full comment
catch22's avatar

test

Expand full comment
Catch22's avatar

Doppelgänger!

Expand full comment
catch22's avatar

test

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

You passed!

Expand full comment
WTM's avatar
4dEdited

BA posted their top 25s for the complex leagues today. (Season ends in a week.). Pirates had three of the FCL top 10, although two aren’t there any more. Florentino 2, Navarro 6, Sanford 10.

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

I don't know. 28 year old AAAA guy with a few AAA homers versus below average utility guy forced into playing regularly at times. Meh to me. I hope (wish may be the better word) the next deals look better.

Expand full comment
Scott Kliesen's avatar

Why anyone is expecting more than that for a veteran who signed last winter for close to league minimum salary is beyond me.

Frazier is 26th man on a contender. At best.

Expand full comment
bmcferren's avatar

would have rather'd a 17 year old from dominican republic

Expand full comment
Scott Kliesen's avatar

The chances of a 17 year old ever making it to AAA are long. Very long.

Expand full comment
AdministrativeSky236's avatar

You couldn’t have expected Frazier to bring home big value

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

No, I didn't. I guess I really think this is an exercise in futility. Frazier makes next to nothing and has no value so we trade him for another player that is 28 with limited success at AAA with a 33% K rate and stats that really seem incompatible with MLB success. Why bother?

Expand full comment
Darren's avatar

To save Nutting almost 600K. That was the real purpose of this trade. The fact they got a player who has at least a small chance of being useful for a bit, and at a league minimum salary, is just icing on the cake.

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

No. The Pirates actually got a guy who can really play SS: a first for Ben Cherington. They desperately needed this.

Expand full comment
SouthernBuc's avatar

Nutting is cheap, but sorry this is not about the $600K. ALL teams out of the running sell off their rentals if there is interest. It's just smart baseball even for teams who should be changing GMs. Not signing Santana to sign Tellez - cheap. I'm all in on the owners lack of financial commitment but IMO any selling of a rental has nothing to do with that for a team this far out of the pennant race. If he were selling off salaries while in a pennant race, then rant away.

Expand full comment
Catch22's avatar

I’m not sure where you got that info, but it’s not accurate.

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

You're right. I misread something and looked at his stats. 28% K rate (for a 28 yo without a MLB debut) and about 29% in '24. One can only hope he can hit better than the myriad others with the same or better AAA stats (Suwinski, Davis, etc., etc.).

Expand full comment
Catch22's avatar

26% in 24

24.3% in 25

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

He whiffs a lot, but he hits the ball reasonably hard often enough to get some playing time as a utility IFer and can play a respectable SS.

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

But hey, BC says, "Our focus is short-term. By short-term, I don't necessarily mean August of 2025. But our focus is going to be: How do we get this thing on track and be better in 2026, win more games in 2026? That's our focus in all of our decision-making."

That makes this trade wonderful - an unproven MI likely to struggle to find success in the majors joins the team! Yay!

Expand full comment
SouthernBuc's avatar

I look at it this way. Frazier (without a re-signing) does not exist in 2026. Let's suppose this guy (with the faults as you described) has a 5% chance given his current AAA season and late 20s improvements to actually be a lower tier but legit starting SS (with a 2025 test run) in 2026. Who knows, totally wishful thinking, holds the fort until Griffin arrives (still short odds - I get it). But without the trade we don't have him. To me it gives them another possibility. Even with our best dreams of a new GM, they are not going to get top tier players at all positions (and they need a LOT). They need some big moves, but trading any of their rentals is not going to return much so the rentals will NOT be one of those big moves but having something (the chance he may help) is better than nothing. All decision making can not be focused on just the BIG moves, small incremental (hello Santana as an example) also need made. If he gets a 2025 chance and fails, not a big loss but if he succeeds that gives them more options as they look to 2026.

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar
4dEdited

You make good, cogent arguments for this trade. I'm just being grumpy and cynical because of my jaded experience as a Pirate fan over the last 40 years. Personally, I'm always overjoyed to be proven wrong but this player type, in my opinion, has a less than 5% chance of success. He's no Garrett Jones, but then few are due to the current K culture.

Expand full comment
SouthernBuc's avatar

I get it and understand. This most likely ends up much ado about nothing. Maybe 2 teams called on Frazier and they got something they thought could be worth a look. I do hope he sees Pittsburgh this season but depending on the off season may not see Pittsburgh at all next year or we hold out hope for that (my made up) 5% chance they found something helpful. I truly think most rental trades will feel like this one as none of them really have needle moving value. Trade Keller.. then things get interesting.

Expand full comment
bmcferren's avatar

i am holding out hope for Stixx to upgrade his value at shortstop and hope this is the backup plan to that

Yorke and Termarr wont be playing shortstop in the majors so i hope this guy is not taking playing time away from those two

Expand full comment
Scott Kliesen's avatar

I’m holding out hope Pirates start Chandler, Barco, and Griffin on the 2026 OD roster and hope they perform well enough to net Pirates a couple draft picks in ‘27.

Expand full comment
bmcferren's avatar

i guess the IKF extension negotiations have broken down

Expand full comment
StatsCbl's avatar

I'm also glad to see he can play second base, if needed. The only other guys on our 40 man with experience at second are Nick, Cheng, Triolo, Simon, Alika, Peguero, Cook, Horwitz, Yorke, Kiner-Falefa, Valdez, Endy and Bae. Devanney keeps us at 14 after trading Frazier, which is much better than dropping us to only 13.

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

Of the myriad of options to replace Frazier on the roster, Simon is my vote for next man up.

Expand full comment
rhd's avatar

I'm blanking on who simon is and will just mentally picture Randal Simon. (don't judge me)

Expand full comment
Hoptown's avatar

The guy from the Marlins who cried on the field….

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

Not good at memes but I am envisioning Randall Simon crying while hitting a giant sausage. That's definitely more entertaining than last night's travesty of an All-Star "game." While I don't want the Pete Rose dash home I still long for the days when All-Star games were competitive and not player participation-celebrity shows.

Expand full comment
Melkel's avatar
4dEdited

Way off wondering, will Jared Jones switch his jersey number to 17 now that Shelton is gone and since he won't pitch again until next year?

https://x.com/jared_jones_17/status/1944829021419962419

Expand full comment
MB 21's avatar

Which Jared Jones?

Expand full comment
Melkel's avatar
4dEdited

https://x.com/jared_jones_17/status/1114616078917881856

https://x.com/jared_jones_17/status/1184197809857187840

The pitcher, he really likes the number 17, wore it high school, was going to wear it in college and it's part of his X handle. Way off wondering on my part lol.

Expand full comment
TNBucs's avatar

Surprised that Shelton wouldn’t have given him that number.

Expand full comment
WTM's avatar

Taking Shelton’s number?? Don’t do it!! It’s cursed!

Expand full comment
JRC21's avatar

I believe Dock Ellis was 17.

Expand full comment
Bob Nutting's avatar

Thanks for reminding me I miss watching Jared pitch.

Expand full comment
StatsCbl's avatar

Unlike many, I liked the acquisition of Kiner-Falefa as he is a good utility infielder on a team that wants to win. My problem was he was acquired to be the starting shortstop for the next year and a half.

I have no problem acquiring Devanney. My fear is that he is going to hit .240 with 8 homers second half, then the Pirates view him as their starting shortstop in 2026. Even though Bob can save money from not re-signing Kiner-Falefa or a better shortstop, this approach will not make the Pirates better.

Expand full comment
Amos Moses's avatar

I’m going to stupidly hold out hope that Devanney - with all his options - is a safe play at having a AAA shortstop-capable player available next year in the event next year’s starting SS goes out with an injury. He’ll likely get time at SS after IKF is traded, and who knows, maybe the swing change is a game changer (unlikely), but he may be an upgrade on Alika and Cheng as the emergency SS next year.

Gonzales should stick at 2B and hopefully cement himself as a first division starting 2B by next year.

Expand full comment
TNBucs's avatar

I’d like to see them re-sign IKF after trading him to a contender.

Expand full comment
Anthony Murphy's avatar

Pirates optioned Devanney to AAA on top of that, too, apparently. Will make another move to fill Frazier's spot on the roster.

Expand full comment
sweetleb64's avatar

I think Bae is done with his AAA seasonings ,so I look for him to get the callup , bats left and plays outfield and that's what they traded away.

Expand full comment
Joshua Johnson's avatar

Good call I kind of forgot Bae still existed. Although maybe having Jack up quells the need for another lefty. Frazier has not had many at bats since Pham started seeing/hitting.

Expand full comment
SouthernBuc's avatar

A question I should know the answer. If he was just optioned, he can't be recalled for a certain amount of time correct? My purpose for asking... why option him now when in theory there could be another trade or trades before Friday. Maybe by then they will want him in Pittsburgh and would now have to wait a few weeks to make that happen.

Expand full comment
Anthony Murphy's avatar

Probably just means there isn't anything else close right now. Technically you can't recall, but there are generally exceptions to it. Not sure if a trade is one of them, but it's possible.

Wouldn't imagine IKF gets traded until right at the deadline anyways.

Expand full comment
Melkel's avatar

Yep, and I'm sure some type of injury could pop up in a timely manner if not.

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

Triolo's hammy has looked a little iffy lately.

Expand full comment
Melkel's avatar

He's already been optioned

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

Really. I didn't notice.

Expand full comment
TNBucs's avatar

Makes sense if he's the/a replacement plan for IKF. Let him keep getting starts until SS opens up.

In any case, it's a good deal because I wasn't that optimistic on Gonzales being able to play SS well or in Williams ever being able to hit MLB pitching. At least we have one more option now.

Expand full comment
Scott Kliesen's avatar

Here’s a thought:

Trade Keller this winter for a 3B with a legit power bat, and a LF with a legit power bat, and move Hayes to SS.

Does that sound unreasonable?

Expand full comment
TNBucs's avatar

Unless Cherington is blown away with an offer, I'd say keep him until next year's trade deadline with the hope that we're contending next year or at least with more info on Jones' and Oviedo's health, Chandler's transition to the majors, and/or whether one of Ashcraft, Burrows, or Mlod can claim a spot in the rotation. Keller should have similar value a year from now*.

*There is one big caveat--if organizations expect an extended lockout or strike that cuts significantly into the 2027 season, then the 2+ years of control Keller would have a year from now might be treated more like 1+ years. While I think teams treat 2+ and 3+ years of control similarly in terms of what they're willing to give up, 1+ years seems different.

Expand full comment
Arky Wags's avatar

Two power bats for Mitch? Might be rich-Shaw and Caissie?

Expand full comment
jasonr33's avatar

Have pondered this as well, but I fear his back might not free him up to be as athletic as a SS needs to be.

Expand full comment
Anthony's avatar

Not sure if the metrics agree, but the eye test tells me that IKF lacks range as well as arm strength. I think Hayes would adapt just fine.

Expand full comment
Anthony Murphy's avatar

TBF, we aren't sure of Devanney being able to hit MLB pitching either, BUT I'd rather give a shot to the power type of profile than to just see Alika hitting again.

Yeah, Gonzales was really the only option they were going to have unless they were going to give Cheng a run. He has been playing better since returning from injury, but still.

Expand full comment
SouthernBuc's avatar

I said this elsewhere but am warming up more to my own comment. Nick G to me really isn't a future shortstop - stop gap sure. If he is option one for 2B and at current trend he would be (long season left and not a huge 2025 sample yet), why not let him continue to hone his defense at 2B. It seems he may be annually improving at the plate and glove so why move him to SS for 3 months?

Expand full comment
PirateRican21's avatar

Gonzales is a good defender with slightly better speed and arm than IKF, his bat would be a plus at SS, why not give it a go?

Expand full comment
StatsCbl's avatar

Just the eye test from a non-expert, I haven't been too impressed with Nick at short. I have at second. I also think with a team built on pitching, we at least owe them a good shortstop.

Expand full comment
Mel Schuster - emjayinTN's avatar

He can play second base for the Pirates this year and hopefully have a solid season. That said, a No. 1 Draft pick from 2020 out of college and is just getting his feet on the ground at age 26 is not what the Pirates (BC) had in mind when they drafted him.

We have a 21 year old at 2B at AA, drafted in the First Round in 2022 out of HS, and that is our future at 2B, same as Konnor Griffin, First Round pick in 2024, is our future at SS. Griffin is lighting it up at every stop, and TJ has done well enough in A and A+, but is struggling at the AA level. Not struggling badly for a team with very little offense, but I have confidence in his bat and think he will be with the Pirates some time in 2026.

We need to lock up a highly rated LH hitting OF before the trade deadline who can cover LF and pair with Cruz in CF, with Reynolds in RF. The Infield is a work in progress.

Expand full comment
Bob Nutting's avatar

18th percentile arm strength. IKF is bad too at 23rd percentile.

Expand full comment
PirateRican21's avatar

Correction, slightly worse!

Expand full comment
Scott Kliesen's avatar

I’d rather let him focus more on his bat than take his time away learning a new position.

Expand full comment
SouthernBuc's avatar

I think I have a lower opinion on Nick's defense at SS especially since he seems to be getting pretty good at 2B. But I wasn't going to lose sleep if he was the SS option post IKF as a trial run.

Expand full comment
TNBucs's avatar
4dEdited

For sure, but he's one more option at what will be arguably the biggest position of need if we trade IKF or lose him to FA.

I did forget about Cheng, and of course there is Triolo. But neither provides much confidence.

Also, it probably makes sense to give Gonzales a chance first because we do have other options at 2B.

Expand full comment
Catch22's avatar

prob yorke.

Expand full comment
WTM's avatar

I figure there’s a non-zero chance it’ll be Ronny Simon, esp since he hits LH.

Expand full comment
Anthony Murphy's avatar

Wouldn't mind that

Expand full comment
JRC21's avatar

That would be great. Could be Cook as well.

Expand full comment
Catch22's avatar

"With above-average bat speed and raw pop, Devanney has been lifting and pulverizing everything soft in the zone to all fields, hitting 11 home runs before Memorial Day. He’s been much more tame against velocity, he still whiffs in the zone more than average, and he looks vulnerable in the up-and-away quadrant in a way that big league arms are bound to probe. But despite his age (28) and pedigree (he signed for just $10,000 out of the 15th round in 2019), Devanney was already looking like a rosterable infield reserve based on his glove. He’s not immune to errors, but his above-average throwing arm frees him up to be aggressive when making plays on the run at the borders of his range. There are times when Devanney makes his throws look harder than they have to be, like that kid on the playground who shoots fadeaway jumpers too often, but he’s a well-made guy with middle infield athleticism."

Expand full comment
Aurorus Borealus's avatar

This seems to me to be pretty accurate. There are 3 reasons why he has not been on the Royals roster for most of the season: 1) he is blocked by Garcia and Witt who are interchangeable on the left-side of the IF 2) They don't think his power, even slightly upgraded this year, is going to play at Kaufman. It is "warning track" power there. It might play in Pittsburgh. 3) They like Tolbert better for speed and OBP potential.

Expand full comment
TNBucs's avatar

The "tame against velocity" is a concern but the "above-average bat speed" offers some hope that as he gets more comfortable with his simpler set up, he'll be able to adjust to velo.

Expand full comment