Catching up on my ESPN today and they had an article on the top 15 starting rotations in Baseball. Any guesses where the Pirates rank?…..
They didn’t make the list but the Cubs and Brewers did! I thought our rotation was a supposed strength? I’m still bullish on what we have but a legit bat would sure make me feel better about our chances
Are the Pirate pitchers overrated, or is GMBC just too slow and indecisive to make a major trade? There seem to have been several opportunities that have gone by, and not even a solid rumor seems to have been reported. Or do the other teams think thye can get the Pirates to overpay? These two young kids are 5 years away and will never see our boy Paul. It is very hard to keep rooting for them to become competative. I was a real fan in the 70's but have been losing interest for many years. Wht can't they sign at least one mid-expensive free agent, like Santander?
Regarding Santander, they’ve just never spent money in free agency that way. I’d tend to agree with WTM that it seems they have some sort of limitations in place on AAV’s and total value for free agent contracts and players they trade for. It’s really the only thing that makes sense given how differently they have operated from other teams. Even the Athletics have signed a guy like Severino to a decently large deal (by small market standards) or the Rays signing Charlie Morton/Zach Eflin to decently high AAV’s (by small market standards).
What I think is the main limitation is that Nuttin insists that future commitments be kept very low, so they can cut payroll sharply if unforeseen events threaten his profit margin. When the Pirates talk about payroll flexibility, what they really mean is DOWNWARD flexibility.
So they’ll tolerate a few team-friendly extensions, because the player can’t talk to anybody else. But no multiyear FA contracts because they wouldn’t be below market value — something Nuttin insists on — and would limit future downward flexibility.
Your first sentence, there has to be a reason for this bc you can always “cut payroll” if need be. Teams do it every year. The benefits of multi-year commitments far outweigh the risks, all things being equal. I think there is something other than Nutting preventing this organization from taking on future debt obligations.
Maybe you can come up with something else. It just seems like there has to be some explanation for something that makes absolutely no sense. You bring in a legion of replacement and sub-replacement players every single year, waste collectively a meaningful amount of money on them, especially in Pirate terms, they "help" you finish well below .500 as always, then they're all gone and you just repeat the process. What adult human would think that makes sense?
I think you’re right, but the oddity is that they don’t even seem to be willing to do one year deals at a higher AAV. Doing what the Reds did last year signing Frankie Montas to one year and $16 million feels pretty unthinkable for us, even though it wouldn’t hinder payroll long term. In terms of a trade, I’m skeptical they considered a guy like Josh Naylor because they wouldn’t have wanted to pay the projected $12 million arb award.
I think they’re trying to curry favor with the union, to avoid more grievances, by signing a bunch of cheap, crappy players instead of spending the same money on one decent one. Most of the guys BC signs would have to take MiL deals otherwise. Veterans don’t like signing MiL deals and the union gets complaints.
I’d also bet that BC curries favor with Nuttin by saying, “I signed five FAs for what so and so paid one guy.” That’s the sort of thing that’d appeal to Nuttin.
They made their major trade with Horwitz. The next major move with be signing Verdugo for 1/8 and signing a slew of bullpen arms on minor league contracts
IMO a big part of the problem is Nuttin’s ultra-restrictive payroll rules. They’re not allowed to compete for FAs beyond the ones nobody else wants. In trade, it has to be somebody with just a year or so of service time, so they’re acquiring lots of cheap control. Guys like that are expensive. They only got Horwitz because he’s old for a guy with so little service time, and they still had to overpay.
It’s impossible to overstate how damaging Nuttin’s rules are. They’re trying to shop in a market that they themselves have limited to an incredibly tiny size, and everybody in MLB knows it.
I wouldn't let Cherington off the hook that easily. He said that this was the only job he was interested in because he wanted the challenge of building a team from the bottom up, and so far is proving unable to meet that challenge.
Sure, Nutting is the bigger problem and an obstacle that may be insurmountable for all but the very best GMs. But Cherington needs to be held accountable for what he claimed he could/would do when he was hired.
I do have hope, though, given that he has apparently recognized his shortcomings and is surrounding himself with better analysts and scouts.
Better analysts may help, but his trading efferts, dumping the veterns in the begining and now trading prospects leaves an awful lot to be desired. His taking quantity over quality has been most awful.
I believe those rules have also hurt the Pirates in the past, as far getting a good trade value for our players that are paid well or close to being paid well.
I used to get excited when the international signing period started. Now, not so much. The Pirates have managed to suck the fun out of it by failing to develop players.
According to the substack listings linked above, Pirates are in on only 1 of the top 35 right now (Johan De Los Santos). Maybe they're saving their Intl money for Sasaki.
Good write-up on De Los Santos. He'd be the best signing ever....if he can steal first.
Agreed and you have one of the best cases to pitch to Roki for a small market- Paul Skenes, Jared Jones, Bubba Chandlers, and Roki. Talk about staff potential in weak division.
Instead you focus on players who likely will never even see AA.
Perhaps they already had conversations we would never know about but it would be interesting to hear if they even tried.
Catching up on my ESPN today and they had an article on the top 15 starting rotations in Baseball. Any guesses where the Pirates rank?…..
They didn’t make the list but the Cubs and Brewers did! I thought our rotation was a supposed strength? I’m still bullish on what we have but a legit bat would sure make me feel better about our chances
Are the Pirate pitchers overrated, or is GMBC just too slow and indecisive to make a major trade? There seem to have been several opportunities that have gone by, and not even a solid rumor seems to have been reported. Or do the other teams think thye can get the Pirates to overpay? These two young kids are 5 years away and will never see our boy Paul. It is very hard to keep rooting for them to become competative. I was a real fan in the 70's but have been losing interest for many years. Wht can't they sign at least one mid-expensive free agent, like Santander?
Regarding Santander, they’ve just never spent money in free agency that way. I’d tend to agree with WTM that it seems they have some sort of limitations in place on AAV’s and total value for free agent contracts and players they trade for. It’s really the only thing that makes sense given how differently they have operated from other teams. Even the Athletics have signed a guy like Severino to a decently large deal (by small market standards) or the Rays signing Charlie Morton/Zach Eflin to decently high AAV’s (by small market standards).
What I think is the main limitation is that Nuttin insists that future commitments be kept very low, so they can cut payroll sharply if unforeseen events threaten his profit margin. When the Pirates talk about payroll flexibility, what they really mean is DOWNWARD flexibility.
So they’ll tolerate a few team-friendly extensions, because the player can’t talk to anybody else. But no multiyear FA contracts because they wouldn’t be below market value — something Nuttin insists on — and would limit future downward flexibility.
Your first sentence, there has to be a reason for this bc you can always “cut payroll” if need be. Teams do it every year. The benefits of multi-year commitments far outweigh the risks, all things being equal. I think there is something other than Nutting preventing this organization from taking on future debt obligations.
Maybe you can come up with something else. It just seems like there has to be some explanation for something that makes absolutely no sense. You bring in a legion of replacement and sub-replacement players every single year, waste collectively a meaningful amount of money on them, especially in Pirate terms, they "help" you finish well below .500 as always, then they're all gone and you just repeat the process. What adult human would think that makes sense?
I think you’re right, but the oddity is that they don’t even seem to be willing to do one year deals at a higher AAV. Doing what the Reds did last year signing Frankie Montas to one year and $16 million feels pretty unthinkable for us, even though it wouldn’t hinder payroll long term. In terms of a trade, I’m skeptical they considered a guy like Josh Naylor because they wouldn’t have wanted to pay the projected $12 million arb award.
I think they’re trying to curry favor with the union, to avoid more grievances, by signing a bunch of cheap, crappy players instead of spending the same money on one decent one. Most of the guys BC signs would have to take MiL deals otherwise. Veterans don’t like signing MiL deals and the union gets complaints.
I’d also bet that BC curries favor with Nuttin by saying, “I signed five FAs for what so and so paid one guy.” That’s the sort of thing that’d appeal to Nuttin.
They made their major trade with Horwitz. The next major move with be signing Verdugo for 1/8 and signing a slew of bullpen arms on minor league contracts
IMO a big part of the problem is Nuttin’s ultra-restrictive payroll rules. They’re not allowed to compete for FAs beyond the ones nobody else wants. In trade, it has to be somebody with just a year or so of service time, so they’re acquiring lots of cheap control. Guys like that are expensive. They only got Horwitz because he’s old for a guy with so little service time, and they still had to overpay.
It’s impossible to overstate how damaging Nuttin’s rules are. They’re trying to shop in a market that they themselves have limited to an incredibly tiny size, and everybody in MLB knows it.
I wouldn't let Cherington off the hook that easily. He said that this was the only job he was interested in because he wanted the challenge of building a team from the bottom up, and so far is proving unable to meet that challenge.
Sure, Nutting is the bigger problem and an obstacle that may be insurmountable for all but the very best GMs. But Cherington needs to be held accountable for what he claimed he could/would do when he was hired.
I do have hope, though, given that he has apparently recognized his shortcomings and is surrounding himself with better analysts and scouts.
Better analysts may help, but his trading efferts, dumping the veterns in the begining and now trading prospects leaves an awful lot to be desired. His taking quantity over quality has been most awful.
I believe those rules have also hurt the Pirates in the past, as far getting a good trade value for our players that are paid well or close to being paid well.
I used to get excited when the international signing period started. Now, not so much. The Pirates have managed to suck the fun out of it by failing to develop players.
According to the substack listings linked above, Pirates are in on only 1 of the top 35 right now (Johan De Los Santos). Maybe they're saving their Intl money for Sasaki.
Good write-up on De Los Santos. He'd be the best signing ever....if he can steal first.
If they sign anyone else, they won’t be getting Sasaki. I’m assuming he gets a teams full pool
Agreed and you have one of the best cases to pitch to Roki for a small market- Paul Skenes, Jared Jones, Bubba Chandlers, and Roki. Talk about staff potential in weak division.
Instead you focus on players who likely will never even see AA.
Perhaps they already had conversations we would never know about but it would be interesting to hear if they even tried.