This is a minor point, but I still don’t understand why Santana wasn’t used yesterday. He was by far the best reliever in spring training, and then had one bad outing and one good outing in the first three games. The minute Bednar came in, the game was over.
So can anyone explain to me why there is a "Sunday" lineup for the 4th game of the season when you've lost 2 of the first 3? And now we can't start our ace on four days' rest? Evidently the Pirates don't just have a bad team but a fragile one. And this is the leadership from a "player's manager." If I'm a player, I don't know, I might actually want to play the game rather than sit on the bench.
Because it's Sunday. This is who our manager is. Just a total meathead. He rests starters on Sunday... period. There can be no deviation from that.
Of course, Cruz should have been benched for his bad defensive plays. Hayes should be rested every 3 days. Putting Reynolds at DH as often as possible is fine (to keep his bat in the lineup for as many games as possible). Bart is a C who should also be rested every 4th day or so.
The problem was not so much the starting 9 as how the lineup card was constructed and the fact that they don't have 9 MLB-caliber players, to say nothing of their substitutes, who are definitely not MLB-caliber.
Oh - and the idea that this is a "young" team is a crock. Endy is young. Skenes is young. Otherwise this is a fairly "old" team in today's game. I'm not optimistic in part because this team has a bunch of old position players that have proven they are either done, in the twilight of their career, or shouldn't be on an opening day roster.
I got tired of the "young team" BS years ago. The Pirates have rarely had young teams at any point in Nuttin's ownership. A young team is one with a bunch of promising players in their early 20s, not a bunch of washed up veterans and late-20s guys who are still struggling to get established. "Young" in Pirate terms means "never got established because he sucks."
Wrong, by weighted average, their hitters are the 5th oldest group in MLB, barely younger than the 3rd and 4th oldest. Only the Dodgers and Padres are appreciably older. That's not just because of Cutch and Pham, although considering that they make up 20% of the starting lineup it's foolish to discount them.
And you don't have to be "chocked full" of position players in their early 20s. The Pirates have zero under 25. That's Z - E - R - O. They have only two starters under 28. They don't suck because their players are young. They suck because they suck.
Because hitters are the area of the FO’s yuuuuuggest failure.
Oh, and the weighted average of the pitchers is only a little younger than MLB avg. The overall roster age is older than avg. You’re skewing results by counting guys who seldom play the same as regulars.
Shelton has to stop the madness of Holderman & Bednar pitching in late innings. Personally, I'd send them both down and see if they can find their form in the minors.
Small sample and all, but Endy sure does not look like he belongs on an MLB roster right now.
His shenanigans in the bottom of the 9th cost them the game. You can't throw one into CF with no outs. Bednar spiked it, but a good catcher blocks that 99 out of a 100 times.
Shit series all the way around, but the Pirates lost it. The Marlins didn't win those games, they were handed to them on a silver platter.
Not sure, bc I didn't see it, but Mel Schuster above seemed to have a pretty good read on that sequence. Man on first in a stealing situation in the 9th could have been handled differently, I think.
Bednar needs demoted (maybe sent down, if that's possible) if shit doesn't sit right after this next series. I think that would be the equivalent of an armload of bats.
We can't have this shit again this year from the bullpen.
Fwiw, Bednar and Holderman both have options. They’re not going anywhere of course. The schedule calls for the Sheltibot to use them in the late innings all year.
I agree on your fundamentals comment. Somewhat related my daughter used to always complain (rightfully) when some announcer would praise a 'veteran' for something simple like a SS throwing to second to get the lead runner on a forceout. My daughter "we learned that when we were 10".
I will disagree on your leap to immature and selfish. I truly think there are some players/people whose brains just work differently and it is not some conscious selfish/immature act. I've played with life time baseball/softball players who are very good athletes who still just do what appears to be the dumbest things. They barrel around 2nd with the left fielder holding the ball and are out by 10 feet at third. Their bar explanation 'I was being aggressive'. Please note I won't get into any further discussion here but I am adamant that brains from person to person are very different (obvious things like ADHD etc.) and causes different outcomes. Of course they could be the most selfish /immature people around but anybody who claims they know that without being with them hourly / daily / in workouts / white traveling and base it off of 'outside' views I just can't debate. I likely way over reacted but in things way more important than baseball it is a hot spot for me.
Um... players who play the OF when they are young, learn to hit cutoff men. Players who were moved to the OF in the major-leagues 4 1/2 years after it was obvious that they should not be at SS can only learn to hit the cutoff man from the major-league coaches.
Why are they pitching Skenes on a six-day schedule? He should be more than ready to pitch on a five-day schedule like a regular starter. And then who is starting on Tuesday?
Because they don't care about winning. I may be in the minority but they should ride Skenes hard for the five years you have him. What I hate is the lies. This junk about this season being all about winning is a big fat lie after the offseason and everyone knows it.
If so I am opposed to this decision. Winning games is more important than having a more fan friendly starter pitching the first game at home. Pitching Skenes and Keller Tue and Wed increases the odds of winning the series and this is all that should matter.
Agree. If they wanted Keller for the home opener, move Falter up a day. A bullpen game or some other nonsense this early in the season adds to the long list of management incompetence.
Thankful for a weekend road trip and away from the futility that is the Pirates start to the 2025 season. It will get better. Why and with whom I'm not sure, but to continue on this pace means a 120 loss season, and they are much better than that.
Fire Shelton? Of course - he should have been terminated 2 or 3 years ago! It may not be all on him, but this team is just not playing for this guy and that was his job - to prep them to be at their best from Day 1! For numbers of reasons they are not ready to play winning baseball at this level.
Just a look at the last sequence - Hill gets on base. Bednar is slow to the plate, so do we throw over? If we think he may be a threat to steal, did we call for a pitch-out? - No. He throws a pitch that is low and outside meaning the Catcher has to reach outside and low therefore turn his body to catch the ball and then have to throw across his body to second. Now the runner is on 3B and we know that the one knee Catcher setup is not good for blocking pitches in the dirt. Do we call a timeout and go out to the mound to talk with Bednar and Endy? No! Next pitch bounces short and way outside and cannot be blocked by the Catcher. A lot of correctable issues in that last AB and nothing from Shelton. It's the Manager's job to be thinking for these guys - he cannot simply be an observer. When the guy got to 3rd representing the winning run did we load the bases to have a possibility of a force out at Home? No!
I disagree on your sequence explanation. They are throwing pitches to get the batter out not to prevent a stolen base and a major league catcher doesn't make that bad of a throw. I do think Endy is defensively a MLB catcher, but sorry.. that was an ERROR not the managers fault. Same with blocking the pitch.. you can debate whose fault the pitcher or catcher but not the manager(ok.. I'll give you 5% manager for not going to the mound). BTW.. I'm all in on Shelton being gone, but this is not 13-15 year olds playing, Endy had a rough end of that game - that is on HIM. It doesn't make him a bad catcher or bad choice as the backup. I suppose it Is also Shelton's fault that Endy is 0-9?
You definitely want to keep the winning run out of scoring position in the last inning. Definitely an error on the throw, but the location of the pitch by a supposedly veteran Closer was terrible. The knee on the ground is not best for blocking wild pitches. As soon as the runner was in scoring position that has to be emphasized by someone - if not the Catcher on his own, then the Manager.
Why not load the bases? Why even have a Manager if he is not going to act like he wants to make sure every player is on the same page before the next pitch is thrown. No use to even have a dud like that. Those players know when they screw up, and Endy is no different - but we do not have a Manager and this guy has been masquerading as one for now into his 6th year.
The Pirates have been trying to get their catchers to use the "knee-on-the-ground" technique more because it improves pitch framing. You are exactly right though that that technique must be abandoned when you have a the go-ahead run on 1B in the 9th. The catcher must be in a crouch and ready to make throws or react to bad pitches.
Good point, and another example of just plain bad management and coaching.
What are you talking about! He's obviously the man for the job. Just ask Bob Nutting. He needs a guy that can continue to deliver mediocre teams every year. That way Bob can always say, without butts in seats they can't afford to add payroll. See it's not Bob's fault they can't draw a crowd. The manager sucks. Or maybe the GM.
I have been a baseball fan for 50 years and a Bucs fan for 30. Spring brings optimism, it's the hallmakr of baseball. This year, I have none. Zero. Nada. Zip. This team has assetts, but is so mismanaged they are minimzed. I don't think BC is great job, he's pretty darn almost -up--to-mediocore. That makes him a rock star on the Best Management Team in Baseball.
Shelton is beyond horrible. He is strategically and tacially helpless. Stuck in vetranosity mode and cannot plan his way out of a puddle. Give him a map, two hands and a few hints and he cannot find his own butt. Baseball wise speaking; I'm sure he is a very competent man in general.
After that, all the assistants are noise in the tornado. Fungable and just trying to make best of this situation.
There is youth oin this team that offers optimizm. It's all sitting on the bench or in AAA. For em the optimism will start to ramp when I hear Browning chirp a few things:
Wham, Bam, there goes Pham. (When he is traded, designated or just retires in embarassment)
Down goes Fraiser. (Same).
Also, Shelton is fired (over under is Memorial day).
If we are going to lose 100 games, then do it with youth. Let's see who the nect regime can keep.
Shelton stuck with Bednar way too long last year, let's see how long he sticks with him this year. I still think we would be better off with Harrington in the rotation and Mlod in the pen.
Bednar was given a ton of leash last year, ostensibly because some combination of track record, “All-Star,” “it’s in the instruction manual,” whatever. He left a number of games on the table in generally disheartening fashion through his stretches of struggling before anyone stepped in and made any changes.
How long will they let him grind this season when these stretches hit before they give him the chance to try to get right in something other than 9th and/or high leverage? And is that even the right thing to do? I really don’t know, but it has to wear on the team knowing that whatever they do all game long has a coin flip chance of getting thrown in the dumpster at the end of the game unless they’ve built a five run lead or something.
Yeah, the focus seems to be on the pen and I can't argue with that. But yesterday we had Cutch's HR and a gift run and that's it.
And was Cruz benched yesterday because of his poor defense the day before? Was that Shelton trying to send a message?
There were complaints in the game thread (which I read late last night after getting back from a music fest) about how Shelton structured the lineup with Pham and Endy batting between the "big" bats but when I look at the box score, I'm only seeing one hitter who would unquestionably start for a contender and a couple of others who you might make a case for. Even for a Sunday lineup, it was ugly. If there is "urgency every day" as Ben recently said, should Shelton sit Bart and Cruz, 2 of our 3* good MLB hitters, in the same game?
*If someone wants to add Cutch and/or Jack to this number, the point still stands.
No Cruz to fall back on. Bednar seems to have lost it. What alternatives do the pirates have?
Fingers crossed that Bob has some industrious west virginian hillbilly whittling bats to the exact spec the yankees are using as we speak.
This is a minor point, but I still don’t understand why Santana wasn’t used yesterday. He was by far the best reliever in spring training, and then had one bad outing and one good outing in the first three games. The minute Bednar came in, the game was over.
Connor Griffin is now the 71st rated prospect per Fangraphs.
I think the outcome for him is highly volatile.
He could be the CF version of Bobby Witt
He could be the RH version of Jackson Merrill
He could be the next Chad Hermanson
Absolutely predictable clusterf*ck of a bullpen.
So can anyone explain to me why there is a "Sunday" lineup for the 4th game of the season when you've lost 2 of the first 3? And now we can't start our ace on four days' rest? Evidently the Pirates don't just have a bad team but a fragile one. And this is the leadership from a "player's manager." If I'm a player, I don't know, I might actually want to play the game rather than sit on the bench.
Because it's Sunday. This is who our manager is. Just a total meathead. He rests starters on Sunday... period. There can be no deviation from that.
Of course, Cruz should have been benched for his bad defensive plays. Hayes should be rested every 3 days. Putting Reynolds at DH as often as possible is fine (to keep his bat in the lineup for as many games as possible). Bart is a C who should also be rested every 4th day or so.
The problem was not so much the starting 9 as how the lineup card was constructed and the fact that they don't have 9 MLB-caliber players, to say nothing of their substitutes, who are definitely not MLB-caliber.
"4th game of the season when you've lost 2 of the first 3"
The Sheltibot's programming doesn't allow for that many parameters. Nuttin would only pay for an off-the-shelf app.
Oh - and the idea that this is a "young" team is a crock. Endy is young. Skenes is young. Otherwise this is a fairly "old" team in today's game. I'm not optimistic in part because this team has a bunch of old position players that have proven they are either done, in the twilight of their career, or shouldn't be on an opening day roster.
I got tired of the "young team" BS years ago. The Pirates have rarely had young teams at any point in Nuttin's ownership. A young team is one with a bunch of promising players in their early 20s, not a bunch of washed up veterans and late-20s guys who are still struggling to get established. "Young" in Pirate terms means "never got established because he sucks."
Pirates are exactly league average in terms of age. You take away the deviation of the mean (Cutch & Pham) and they're below league ave.
I don't know of any team in the league that is chocked full of promising players in their early 20's.
Wrong, by weighted average, their hitters are the 5th oldest group in MLB, barely younger than the 3rd and 4th oldest. Only the Dodgers and Padres are appreciably older. That's not just because of Cutch and Pham, although considering that they make up 20% of the starting lineup it's foolish to discount them.
And you don't have to be "chocked full" of position players in their early 20s. The Pirates have zero under 25. That's Z - E - R - O. They have only two starters under 28. They don't suck because their players are young. They suck because they suck.
why are you only speaking of hitters? Their 26 man roster is exactly league average in age.
Because hitters are the area of the FO’s yuuuuuggest failure.
Oh, and the weighted average of the pitchers is only a little younger than MLB avg. The overall roster age is older than avg. You’re skewing results by counting guys who seldom play the same as regulars.
Shelton has to stop the madness of Holderman & Bednar pitching in late innings. Personally, I'd send them both down and see if they can find their form in the minors.
Small sample and all, but Endy sure does not look like he belongs on an MLB roster right now.
His shenanigans in the bottom of the 9th cost them the game. You can't throw one into CF with no outs. Bednar spiked it, but a good catcher blocks that 99 out of a 100 times.
Shit series all the way around, but the Pirates lost it. The Marlins didn't win those games, they were handed to them on a silver platter.
Not sure, bc I didn't see it, but Mel Schuster above seemed to have a pretty good read on that sequence. Man on first in a stealing situation in the 9th could have been handled differently, I think.
Bednar needs demoted (maybe sent down, if that's possible) if shit doesn't sit right after this next series. I think that would be the equivalent of an armload of bats.
We can't have this shit again this year from the bullpen.
Fwiw, Bednar and Holderman both have options. They’re not going anywhere of course. The schedule calls for the Sheltibot to use them in the late innings all year.
Mel is a great dude, and I love what he has to say...However, Endy can do no wrong in his mind.
Yea.. I just posted below.. I also do like Mel and his recaps and thoughts but the Endy man crush is out of hand.. .I went a little overboard below.
That's like the dudes blaming coaching on the fundamentals...
Hitting the cutoff man from CF is learned at a very early age.
When you have me first, immature players like Cruz and Bae, it makes the entire team look bad.
Then the same ones complain about a Sunday lineup when Cruz gets benched for being immature.
You cannot miss the cutoff guy multiple times in a game and then drop one that hits your glove. It's such a bad look.
I agree on your fundamentals comment. Somewhat related my daughter used to always complain (rightfully) when some announcer would praise a 'veteran' for something simple like a SS throwing to second to get the lead runner on a forceout. My daughter "we learned that when we were 10".
I will disagree on your leap to immature and selfish. I truly think there are some players/people whose brains just work differently and it is not some conscious selfish/immature act. I've played with life time baseball/softball players who are very good athletes who still just do what appears to be the dumbest things. They barrel around 2nd with the left fielder holding the ball and are out by 10 feet at third. Their bar explanation 'I was being aggressive'. Please note I won't get into any further discussion here but I am adamant that brains from person to person are very different (obvious things like ADHD etc.) and causes different outcomes. Of course they could be the most selfish /immature people around but anybody who claims they know that without being with them hourly / daily / in workouts / white traveling and base it off of 'outside' views I just can't debate. I likely way over reacted but in things way more important than baseball it is a hot spot for me.
Um... players who play the OF when they are young, learn to hit cutoff men. Players who were moved to the OF in the major-leagues 4 1/2 years after it was obvious that they should not be at SS can only learn to hit the cutoff man from the major-league coaches.
Why are they pitching Skenes on a six-day schedule? He should be more than ready to pitch on a five-day schedule like a regular starter. And then who is starting on Tuesday?
Because they don't care about winning. I may be in the minority but they should ride Skenes hard for the five years you have him. What I hate is the lies. This junk about this season being all about winning is a big fat lie after the offseason and everyone knows it.
Maybe so Keller can start the home opener?
If so I am opposed to this decision. Winning games is more important than having a more fan friendly starter pitching the first game at home. Pitching Skenes and Keller Tue and Wed increases the odds of winning the series and this is all that should matter.
I absolutely agree, just trying to imagine why he wouldn’t be starting in Tampa.
Agree. If they wanted Keller for the home opener, move Falter up a day. A bullpen game or some other nonsense this early in the season adds to the long list of management incompetence.
Someone needs to throw an armload of bats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtmKIWa4tY
LOLLYGAGGERS
That's not Sheltons style. I'm not sure he's smart enough for that either.
Style? A manager has to win a few games before he’s allowed to have a style. Unless random idiocy is a style.
Shelton's style is to keep quiet and be nice. That whole more friends with honey thing.
Thankful for a weekend road trip and away from the futility that is the Pirates start to the 2025 season. It will get better. Why and with whom I'm not sure, but to continue on this pace means a 120 loss season, and they are much better than that.
Fire Shelton? Of course - he should have been terminated 2 or 3 years ago! It may not be all on him, but this team is just not playing for this guy and that was his job - to prep them to be at their best from Day 1! For numbers of reasons they are not ready to play winning baseball at this level.
Just a look at the last sequence - Hill gets on base. Bednar is slow to the plate, so do we throw over? If we think he may be a threat to steal, did we call for a pitch-out? - No. He throws a pitch that is low and outside meaning the Catcher has to reach outside and low therefore turn his body to catch the ball and then have to throw across his body to second. Now the runner is on 3B and we know that the one knee Catcher setup is not good for blocking pitches in the dirt. Do we call a timeout and go out to the mound to talk with Bednar and Endy? No! Next pitch bounces short and way outside and cannot be blocked by the Catcher. A lot of correctable issues in that last AB and nothing from Shelton. It's the Manager's job to be thinking for these guys - he cannot simply be an observer. When the guy got to 3rd representing the winning run did we load the bases to have a possibility of a force out at Home? No!
I disagree on your sequence explanation. They are throwing pitches to get the batter out not to prevent a stolen base and a major league catcher doesn't make that bad of a throw. I do think Endy is defensively a MLB catcher, but sorry.. that was an ERROR not the managers fault. Same with blocking the pitch.. you can debate whose fault the pitcher or catcher but not the manager(ok.. I'll give you 5% manager for not going to the mound). BTW.. I'm all in on Shelton being gone, but this is not 13-15 year olds playing, Endy had a rough end of that game - that is on HIM. It doesn't make him a bad catcher or bad choice as the backup. I suppose it Is also Shelton's fault that Endy is 0-9?
You definitely want to keep the winning run out of scoring position in the last inning. Definitely an error on the throw, but the location of the pitch by a supposedly veteran Closer was terrible. The knee on the ground is not best for blocking wild pitches. As soon as the runner was in scoring position that has to be emphasized by someone - if not the Catcher on his own, then the Manager.
Why not load the bases? Why even have a Manager if he is not going to act like he wants to make sure every player is on the same page before the next pitch is thrown. No use to even have a dud like that. Those players know when they screw up, and Endy is no different - but we do not have a Manager and this guy has been masquerading as one for now into his 6th year.
The Pirates have been trying to get their catchers to use the "knee-on-the-ground" technique more because it improves pitch framing. You are exactly right though that that technique must be abandoned when you have a the go-ahead run on 1B in the 9th. The catcher must be in a crouch and ready to make throws or react to bad pitches.
Good point, and another example of just plain bad management and coaching.
What are you talking about! He's obviously the man for the job. Just ask Bob Nutting. He needs a guy that can continue to deliver mediocre teams every year. That way Bob can always say, without butts in seats they can't afford to add payroll. See it's not Bob's fault they can't draw a crowd. The manager sucks. Or maybe the GM.
I have been a baseball fan for 50 years and a Bucs fan for 30. Spring brings optimism, it's the hallmakr of baseball. This year, I have none. Zero. Nada. Zip. This team has assetts, but is so mismanaged they are minimzed. I don't think BC is great job, he's pretty darn almost -up--to-mediocore. That makes him a rock star on the Best Management Team in Baseball.
Shelton is beyond horrible. He is strategically and tacially helpless. Stuck in vetranosity mode and cannot plan his way out of a puddle. Give him a map, two hands and a few hints and he cannot find his own butt. Baseball wise speaking; I'm sure he is a very competent man in general.
After that, all the assistants are noise in the tornado. Fungable and just trying to make best of this situation.
There is youth oin this team that offers optimizm. It's all sitting on the bench or in AAA. For em the optimism will start to ramp when I hear Browning chirp a few things:
Wham, Bam, there goes Pham. (When he is traded, designated or just retires in embarassment)
Down goes Fraiser. (Same).
Also, Shelton is fired (over under is Memorial day).
If we are going to lose 100 games, then do it with youth. Let's see who the nect regime can keep.
Shelton stuck with Bednar way too long last year, let's see how long he sticks with him this year. I still think we would be better off with Harrington in the rotation and Mlod in the pen.
Yes, I’m very curious to see how this progresses.
Bednar was given a ton of leash last year, ostensibly because some combination of track record, “All-Star,” “it’s in the instruction manual,” whatever. He left a number of games on the table in generally disheartening fashion through his stretches of struggling before anyone stepped in and made any changes.
How long will they let him grind this season when these stretches hit before they give him the chance to try to get right in something other than 9th and/or high leverage? And is that even the right thing to do? I really don’t know, but it has to wear on the team knowing that whatever they do all game long has a coin flip chance of getting thrown in the dumpster at the end of the game unless they’ve built a five run lead or something.
7xbh’s in a four game series
Dead nuts average in strikeouts, tho, so who can really say if the offense is good or bad.
I'm pretty sure the offense is not good, I'm hoping it's not bad lol
It's bad.
can we settle on below average, lol
Ok.
Yeah, the focus seems to be on the pen and I can't argue with that. But yesterday we had Cutch's HR and a gift run and that's it.
And was Cruz benched yesterday because of his poor defense the day before? Was that Shelton trying to send a message?
There were complaints in the game thread (which I read late last night after getting back from a music fest) about how Shelton structured the lineup with Pham and Endy batting between the "big" bats but when I look at the box score, I'm only seeing one hitter who would unquestionably start for a contender and a couple of others who you might make a case for. Even for a Sunday lineup, it was ugly. If there is "urgency every day" as Ben recently said, should Shelton sit Bart and Cruz, 2 of our 3* good MLB hitters, in the same game?
*If someone wants to add Cutch and/or Jack to this number, the point still stands.