Through the end of April, the Pirates were one of the most passive offenses in baseball ranking 28th in swing rate (44.6%) and 6th in called strike rate (17.6%) resulting in the 25th best offense in the game (87 wRC+).
Since then, no team has gotten more aggressive.
For the month of June, they now sit 12th in swing rate (48.7%) and 20th in called strike rate (15.8%). Exactly what the masses have been demanding as the One Small Trick to Fix This Offense.
Dude, that is an amazing mirror to exactly where the Pirates are right now.
"During the offseason, the team promoted John Mabry from assistant hitting coach to hitting coach...In other words, Mabry hasn’t necessarily been a shining beacon of patience in either his playing days or his coaching days, but it would be extremely unfair to pin all of this on him."
The Marlins may have a hitting coach that tends towards aggression, but they *also* very clearly sought those types to roster from the get-go.
They're also one of only two clubs in the game with a demonstrably worse offense than the Pirates.
Marlins are also notable here for the fact that their rebuild stalled due to nearly every major hitting prospect busting, and basically all for the same reason. Lew Brinson, Monte Harrison, Jesus Sanchez, Isan Diaz...plate discipline. Uber talented, but swing at everything. You just can't get away with that in the modern game.
Sounds like it's much more than swinging or not swinging. It's about when they do swing, and lack of contact. Doing well in terms of type of contact, but it's the actually making contact part they grossly struggle with. And it's showing organizationally wide. Skip to 15:35
Which is funny for a couple reasons. The whole tradtionalists yelling, "Something. Something. NERDS!!!!!!!!", cause here is the data saying not good. Then obviously all the Haines and Shelton rhetoric of, "Trust the process" or "The whole league is having similar problems".
Naw dawg, yinz showing some really bad signs top to bottom. And that's not even bringing lower than A ball into it, where we're already seeing the EXACT same stuff from prospects, like a Big Rich Ramirez particularly.
I’ll be a wise guy, somewhat quote NMR, voice my opinion, and then move on. I joined the thread of last nights game about mid game and it sure felt like Pirates were down 10. The NMR (I am sure I am misquoting) quote, “it is who we are and there is nothing wrong with that”. I don’t have grand counters to a lot of the comments, my only complaint is when they have become ground hog day. Some of the complaints are new or stated in a different way or have proposed alternatives, I prefer those not that anybody should care. But quite frankly many are just empty bitches and everybody has the right.
For those complaining about other Pirate sites (and I give a lot of credit to the core writers for basically moving on regarding another site), I’ll pick what I want to read and when. Clearly the complaint went well beyond just. I don’t like the content. Everybody can vent and absolutely has the right and that is likely all it was, just IMO not my preferred mid game thread post.
The Pirates – they obviously need offense. I think (even the bullpen to some extent as there is always some crap shoot to each season) the pitching is on the right path. The trade deadline will be interesting. I’ve said this before and stand by it: Any poor to bad GM can tank(it is the easiest, least risky, and postpones any real accountability). You also need some luck when you tank. Nats got Strasburg and Harper, Astros got Correa and Bregman. Pirates got one stud and without tanking would not have him. They tied for the third worst record and WERE lucky to get the first pick. If they would have been ‘trying’ and had the 8th worst record – NO SKENES. But like I said, tanking is simple. The Pirates (even with a spending owner) will never be able to win a Max Fried bidding war. In the Skenes window (how ever you want to count that) the GM (he is NOT going anywhere people) will have to make 1 or 2 bold moves with whatever $ is available and with trades. In the Pittsburgh market he HAS to nail those 2 moves. It could be trading ANYBODY to get value back. Jones for Crews (just for fun) is what I am talking about.
So Let’s Go Bucs.
I will go back to my quiet ways as I can’t mentally hang with the daily sky is falling rants.. we ARE hanging in a playoff race.
Well said on a whole lot of points. Especially liked the one about coming to one site to comment about the thread of another. Theres a reason I love it here, and it sure as fuck isnt about to talk about what is going on somewhere else
I think it’s important to keep griping. I get the groundhog aspect of some of these complaints, but this team has traditionally been very sensitive to fan complaints, and I know there’s people involved who read the comments on these blogs. I’m not trying to claim they need to blow it all up, all is lost etc, but they really need to look inward at some of their decision making processes and make some changes. This offseason was an absolute disaster and whatever assumptions/processes/philosophies drove the offseason choices needs banished to the baseball equivalent of Siberia. The fans need to keep the pressure on by complaining on social media/blogs, it’s pretty much all we can do.
I'll firmly disagree that any griping here makes any difference to the actual team. It is VERY healthy to have places to gripe and get things off your chest however I just don't buy at all that beyond possible reading / pulse of the fan that this drives any change. Not sure where there is any proof that this team is any more sensitive to fan complaints than other teams. Part of the job is being a PR monster without it actually impacting decision making. .... however in fairness.. all this response is IMO.
See I actually think they do listen to fan griping. The extensions for Keller and Reynolds are proof of that. Why else would Bob Nutting spend over $100 MM, an outrageous sum of money for him, extending a good but not great player into his age 36 season? They are human and they hear the complaints: prior management team, but I’ll never forget FC joking at Piratefest about how Huntington bore an uncanny resemblance to Ron Howard, which was a direct reference to everyone at BD and on Smizik’s blog derisively calling him Opie.
The players union is watching the Pirates ops closely, and have filed grievances against the team. The owners are watching too for where their revenue-sharing dollars go that they donate to Bob. And all are really watching now that we got Skenes in the lottery 1/1. So three long-term contracts are checking a lot of boxes in keeping the pressure and negative attention off of Bob. I think you are way out over your skis in thinking fan posts have anything to do with how the team operates!
Fan posts not necessarily. Fan sentiment? Potentially. After all, we are the customers. Businesses, of which the Pirates are one, regularly alter their practices to a reasonable degree based on customer sentiment. The Pirates have invested a lot of money holding focus groups, for example, including with paid participants. So it seems a little far fetched to think that customer sentiment is meaningless.
As an aside, I appreciate your comment about the grievances. That’s a plausible explanation for the extensions.
There's a huge difference in repeating a joke about Ron Howard (or I don't know.. noticing the resemblance himself) and committing over $100M because 'the fans' wanted it. I know even mentioning Bob or Ben want to win will inspire anger from some (not saying you). But I don't think it is a stretch that within Bob's budget they felt the risk / reward of extending those two players to increase the chances of eventually having a winning team was 100% the motivation and had nothing to do with fan gripes. Saying proof as a fact implies you were in the discussions when those extensions were made.
I’m saying it because the Reynolds extension makes no sense to me otherwise. And I wouldn’t have mentioned the Piratefest remark if it wasn’t implicit in the context, as I recall it, that they were aware of the things people were saying online, even if they seemed amused by it.
I think we could probably agree on this (?): there’s almost certainly baseball operations people who consume this site and some of the comments. How much they are affected by the content is a whole other question. If you want to argue it’s minimal/non-existent that’s fair. I’d still argue there’s value for them to see the pulse of a portion of the fan base, and understand that not everyone’s criticism is reflexively they are “cheap.”
I do think pulse of the fan is important to them and would not at all be surprised they check in on it. I just don't think it ultimately makes any impact which is where we will just have a friendly disagreement in the Reynolds example. I know there was a lot of dialog (once again.. from fans, not from the front office) that they had to 'prove' they cared by signing Reynolds. IMO that was fan opinion not what really how the decision was made but of course I truly don't know. Until somebody in the front office writes a book we will never know.
You think it’s nuts that they read the blogs and pay attention to people’s complaints? Remember, we are also talking about a club president who drove all the way out to Kennedy Township to confront a bar owner over a beer promotion he somehow heard they were running. If you want to think they are unemotional robots who don’t consume the same information we do that’s fine. I just don’t think it’s realistic or human nature.
They are people.. but I have been around many a cold hearted executive who were very capable of removing their emotions from making MAJOR decisions($100M). I don't think it is nuts to say they may read blogs or that they can react emotional at times but truly think you are way overstating any impact the discussions here have on their ultimate decision making.
Now that I'm firmly in my 40's, instead of hanging at the local pub drinking and watching the game with the locals, I find myself watching the game and mostly following the game threads.
I checked out last night when the BucsDugout nonsense with posters working for the front office and complaining about McCutchen.
I get overly emotional at times; I think the majority of us do. Hell, I wanted to burn it to the ground after the loss Monday night. But the shenanigans we are seeing now is extreme, like the old, old days over at the MLB site when they had comments. We have a nice little community here and I would hate to see it ruined.
I just sort of treat the game threads at times like X/Twitter, since I had to escape that hell site for the sake of my mental health...and am glad that I did. I definitely do not put a lot of thought into in-game reactions (likely overreactions). In general, I think so long as people do not start insulting each other, that's where things go south in a hurry.
I am all this. I don't disagree at face value on many of the complaints.. just seems like we've take a turn to the total dark side / total Monday morning experts mid game.
I am firmly in my early 60s. I love the writing here. Many of same voices form the old site plus many of the same voices posting comments. I post because of the conversations. That is what hooked me on the old site as it was a good diversion for me when I needed one. Still need that as I am anxiously looking forward to retirement. I am too old and have seen all levels of play from the Pirates since the mid 60s when I old enough to understand what I was watching. Still remember street parking in Oakland and walking what seemed like miles to a little kid to Forbes to see games. I am to the point to where I love baseball and love this site because I get to follow young players and actually know who they are when they hit the show. Loved when Jones made his debut and even Fan Radio hosts had no clue that he even existed prior to that. Knew all about him thanks to staff here. Love the group here and choose to be here as opposed to other sites as no nasty name calling because you dare to have a differing opinion. I am too old for that nonsense now. Things in life give you perspective as to what really matters and what doesn’t. Just can’t get so upset that I can’t just sit down and watch a game that I live or have some good baseball talk. Life is too damned short to get that bent out shape about things that we have absolutely no control over. I like the song that Billy Beane’s daugher sings in the movie Moneball, especially the last line…..Just enjoy the show. Great words to live life by. I choose to enjoy the show!
Connor Scott’s best stretch was probably the four games I was in the stands in Richmond a couple of years ago. Looked really good. Not much after that.
I still think they should've tried Scott on the mound. He was in the low 90's coming out of high school and is a good athlete. I don't see him making it as a hitter.
I probably was in the stands for his best defensive game of his career. Had 3 web gems out in RF including robbing a HR in the bottom 9th by Bowie. You could take it to the bank he would have caught both the Olivares ball and Michael A. balls last night. Nice kid too signing autographs after the game. A shame his bat could never heat up.
Pirates win 9-5 at Great American Ballpark behind a bunch of ogres at the bat rack and a bunch of road runners on the base paths. The Pirates are in third place in the NL Logjam, 8.5 games behind the first place Brewers and 1.5 games ahead of last place Chicago.
*
CARROTS ON THE HOUSE!!!!
@> Nick the Stick for his 3 for 4 day with a run and an rbi.
@>@> Meep-meep!! It’s Road-runner Rowdy with a 2 for 4 day with two runs, an rbi, a walk, a k, and … mercy sakes…. a stolen base.
@>@>@> B.Ray for the quietest 22 game hitting streak I’ve ever seen. 2 for 5 with two runs, two rbi and a first inning bomb (#13).
*
The Pirates need very much to get on a winning streak. Every time they’re getting near the break-even point they seem to take one step back. Keller looked dominating early and then wobbled to the win thanks to the Ogres. And ya gotta like Mudjinski for his 2.1 innings of scoreless relief which, along with Triolo’s 2-run jack, secured the win.
__________________________
“Hey. Frankenstein. Look out there. In the audience.”
Rowdy's stolen base did not make SportsCenter top 10. I need a copy of the criteria. Aaron Judge homeruns (yes it was a grand slam) happen every other day.
I've been front and center in my criticism of the Pirates' lack of offense and believe it is warranted given the lack of hitting prospects in the minor league system. However these stats from a Tim Benz article are interesting...
"• MLB, as a whole, is on pace for more than 1,400 fewer hits, 1,300 fewer runs and 800 fewer home runs than last year.
• The league is also on pace for the fewest doubles in a season since before the 1993 expansion, the fewest homers since 2015, the fewest hits per game (in a full season) since 1968 — the final year before the mound was lowered, and the lowest batting average on balls in play (.288) since 1992.
• At the time of Stark’s column on Friday, the average hitter was logging a .241 batting average and an OPS of .701. Only 25 hitters are on pace to hit 30 home runs. As recently as 2019, there were 58 of them.
• The average lineup now gets just 8.1 hits per game. That’s the sixth-worst ever and the worst overall since ‘68."
Purely anecdotal but watching the Pirates, I'm wondering if part of this is the result of an expanded strike zone. It seems like a lot of balls are called strikes. Even if mistaken calls are about even, with three strike vs four balls, mistaking a ball for a strike would definitely have a more significant impact on the hitter vs the a strike being called a ball. Thoughts?
MLB sought to kill the home run under the belief that gearing up for power is what's leading to less balls in play and less action.
They, of course, have been wrong.
When facing the kind of pants-shitting stuff pitchers bring today, it's not really any easier to sting a line drive over the second baseman's head than it is to lift a long fly ball out to left. Except to score runs you have to do the former way more often, connected one after another.
It's a *more* difficult way to score runs, which is why clubs self-selected for power, and why offense is down around the league with the only increase in balls in play being those flyouts.
I watch this baseball bat bro guy on Youtube who demos all the bats with exit velo/distance data and it doesn't seem like the bats themselves are getting hotter.
I know there's some speculation players are modifying the bats, cause there's basically no repercussions, and making it to the show to get paid is the goal.
Not that offense isn’t down, but we see those columns every single year before the weather heats up and offense heats up with it.
No sport loves to wail about the state of the game more than baseball. Maybe more people would watch and enjoy it if they didn’t have that kind of nonsense in their ear 24/7.
It is stunning to see MLB offense down this much, but it is the Pirates who are down even more than the league, in general. They can’t use the excuse that offense is down everywhere when they are this deficient. It’s a total lack of leadership.
My question was whether miscalled balls were a part of the problem across the league, not just the Pirates. Imo, the Bucs have additional factors hurting performance. MAT was never a great hitter. Jack is not a great hitter. Tellez has been bad most of the season. The list is far too long to be a true playoff contender.
Everyone is subject to this strike zone. If it’s affecting the Pirates more, it’s because their hitters have worse strike zone judgment.
“Hitting is down” does nothing to explain the Pirates’ problems. They’re still worse than nearly everyone else. It’s just Shelton, as usual, grasping for excuses.
The Rays series is a perfect example. Just as with us, that lineup was by no means loaded for bear as evidenced by the slash lines of the starters, but they were worlds away from us in terms of approach.
Agree.. numbers are down but Pirates are way down. The one spot that I thought would work was the MAT/Jack platoon (if they would even be 90% of last years splits)....OOPS. But other moves were doomed from the start.
Long ago, I noticed people liked to explain poor performance as a matter of “needing consistency.” I never bought that. Everyone has good and bad stretches. The separator is how many of each, not “consistency.” Aaron Judge has slumps. Mookie Betts has slumps. Nobody thinks they’re inconsistent.
I think this is what’s happened with Jack. (MAT, by contrast, has always been one of the worst hitters in baseball. No offense, but I did see this coming. Plus, Cherington signed him, which is maybe the most predictive analytic in baseball.). Folks assumed that the “real” Jack was the one who’d get hot for a couple weeks every so often, not the one who’d completely tank for a whole month several times a year.
I definitely didn’t see this collapse coming, but I always thought both versions were the “real” Jack. And I was afraid pitchers might figure out how to avoid whatever was producing the good stretches. He clearly wasn’t addressing the problems that produced the bad stretches and he’s in the worst organization in MLB to get help with that. As long as the problems were present, the risk of pitchers figuring it out was present, and something like that has happened.
It won’t help, but he needs to be in the minors. His best chance is to find someone with zero connection to the Pirates who can help him try to remake his whole approach at the plate during the offseason.
I've been wrong on Jack EVERY year. I was an 'anti' Jack early on because of his extended cold streaks I figured MLB pitching finally figured him out.. and then boom by the end of year his WAR was very good. So this year I bought in and thought as a strong side of a platoon he can work. Honestly I am not sure what to think now other than I tend to agree with your assessment - minor leagues and some new view / coaching.
I'll still disagree some on MAT. Last year was a career year vs. LHP but I still thought his career splits made him a decent short side platoon / late inning defensive sub. Apparently his defense last night (didn't see it) may also be poking holes in some of my assumption.
Great rebound for the Pirates and especially for team leader Bryan Reynolds, Nick Gonzales with 3 hits to break out of a mini-slump, Jared Triolo with a 2R HR, and fine pitching from SP Mitch Keller and Carmen Mlodzinski out of the BP for 2.1 IP. And, it looks like Oneil Cruz is starting to feel a lot more confident again - that ankle injury that cost him almost all of 2023 could be behind him completely.
Good news on the pitching front re Braxton Ashcraft with an efficient 5 IP at AAA, and LHRP Luis Peralta showing well at AA. The Pirates are absolutely loaded with competent pitching at every level, and especially at the MLB/near MLB levels. The Pirates/BC took some gambles along the way to build that level of pitching, and it should be time to think about using some of that pitching to get a solid young CF to step in right now. Or, could the Pirates get a first rate CF for one of their FA SP's such as Perez or Gonzalez, and an add of MI Bae/other, or our FA RP Aroldis Chapman.
Play for now versus Play for the tomorrow's - I think we can do both, and there are plenty of teams out there looking for pitching help in the next month.
I think hitting is going to be muy expensive this season. I could see teams wanting Suwinski for a rental OF hitter. Jack from last year would cost 2 of our top 5 prospects this year. It’s a pickle.
VG in 2023, struggling in 2024 - we keep him and hope he can figure it out. Young CF's with 4+ years of service left who can hit 26 HR's are not very plentiful.
Idk, I can’t see anyone giving anything - even a lottery ticket - for Jack this summer…could be wrong though I suppose. Maybe, if anyone, a non-contender just looking to take a flyer? (A la, most years, a Pirate-y trade target)
Really the only thing he would have going for him (besides last year’s stat line) would be the fact that he’s *not* a rental. Someone could take him for peanuts (maybe good ol’ Cash Considerations) and hope they are able to re-find something resembling a MLB bat.
Can’t see any contender being interested though. Has been nearly unwatchable for the most part with the bat, and equally so before and after his stint in the minors. Like, if the Pirates somehow found -another- guy that has somehow put up almost negative two WAR in just two months of play, with an OPS that would be solidly last among qualifiers if he were qualified….would you want Ben to trade for that guy? Even take him for free?
Last year he led the Bucs with 26 HR and he is still 25 (turns 26 in July). Yes, he is struggling. Of course, we also paid $4 mil for the privilege of watching an "all D, no bat" CF in MAT. We have to solidify what we already have - Reynolds and Suwinski is a VG start. Be nice to land a relatively inexpensive, young CF - preferably one who is a switchhitter. A few switchhitting CF's to consider would be Jonatan Clase, 22 (Seattle), Steward Berroa, 25 (Toronto), & Wenceel Perez, 25 (Detroit). Perez is currently starting in Detroit, Clase was up and back down earlier in 2024, and Berroa was just up and back down for Toronto.
Through the end of April, the Pirates were one of the most passive offenses in baseball ranking 28th in swing rate (44.6%) and 6th in called strike rate (17.6%) resulting in the 25th best offense in the game (87 wRC+).
Since then, no team has gotten more aggressive.
For the month of June, they now sit 12th in swing rate (48.7%) and 20th in called strike rate (15.8%). Exactly what the masses have been demanding as the One Small Trick to Fix This Offense.
The results? I shit you not...
25th best offense in the game, at an 87 wRC+.
Exactly where we started. God I love this game.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-marlins-are-chasing-history/
Dude, that is an amazing mirror to exactly where the Pirates are right now.
"During the offseason, the team promoted John Mabry from assistant hitting coach to hitting coach...In other words, Mabry hasn’t necessarily been a shining beacon of patience in either his playing days or his coaching days, but it would be extremely unfair to pin all of this on him."
The Marlins may have a hitting coach that tends towards aggression, but they *also* very clearly sought those types to roster from the get-go.
They're also one of only two clubs in the game with a demonstrably worse offense than the Pirates.
Marlins are also notable here for the fact that their rebuild stalled due to nearly every major hitting prospect busting, and basically all for the same reason. Lew Brinson, Monte Harrison, Jesus Sanchez, Isan Diaz...plate discipline. Uber talented, but swing at everything. You just can't get away with that in the modern game.
Sounds like it's much more than swinging or not swinging. It's about when they do swing, and lack of contact. Doing well in terms of type of contact, but it's the actually making contact part they grossly struggle with. And it's showing organizationally wide. Skip to 15:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjXIEAOt1EE
lol "NOT good"
And it tracks perfectly with their MLB data too.
Which is funny for a couple reasons. The whole tradtionalists yelling, "Something. Something. NERDS!!!!!!!!", cause here is the data saying not good. Then obviously all the Haines and Shelton rhetoric of, "Trust the process" or "The whole league is having similar problems".
Naw dawg, yinz showing some really bad signs top to bottom. And that's not even bringing lower than A ball into it, where we're already seeing the EXACT same stuff from prospects, like a Big Rich Ramirez particularly.
The one small trick I've been calling for is changing half the roster. Anything else is pointless.
Amen!
That's a bit harsh 40% will do.
Typical Shawn Ross day; 5 plate appearances, 3 walks, 1 K, and 1 HR.
I’ll be a wise guy, somewhat quote NMR, voice my opinion, and then move on. I joined the thread of last nights game about mid game and it sure felt like Pirates were down 10. The NMR (I am sure I am misquoting) quote, “it is who we are and there is nothing wrong with that”. I don’t have grand counters to a lot of the comments, my only complaint is when they have become ground hog day. Some of the complaints are new or stated in a different way or have proposed alternatives, I prefer those not that anybody should care. But quite frankly many are just empty bitches and everybody has the right.
For those complaining about other Pirate sites (and I give a lot of credit to the core writers for basically moving on regarding another site), I’ll pick what I want to read and when. Clearly the complaint went well beyond just. I don’t like the content. Everybody can vent and absolutely has the right and that is likely all it was, just IMO not my preferred mid game thread post.
The Pirates – they obviously need offense. I think (even the bullpen to some extent as there is always some crap shoot to each season) the pitching is on the right path. The trade deadline will be interesting. I’ve said this before and stand by it: Any poor to bad GM can tank(it is the easiest, least risky, and postpones any real accountability). You also need some luck when you tank. Nats got Strasburg and Harper, Astros got Correa and Bregman. Pirates got one stud and without tanking would not have him. They tied for the third worst record and WERE lucky to get the first pick. If they would have been ‘trying’ and had the 8th worst record – NO SKENES. But like I said, tanking is simple. The Pirates (even with a spending owner) will never be able to win a Max Fried bidding war. In the Skenes window (how ever you want to count that) the GM (he is NOT going anywhere people) will have to make 1 or 2 bold moves with whatever $ is available and with trades. In the Pittsburgh market he HAS to nail those 2 moves. It could be trading ANYBODY to get value back. Jones for Crews (just for fun) is what I am talking about.
So Let’s Go Bucs.
I will go back to my quiet ways as I can’t mentally hang with the daily sky is falling rants.. we ARE hanging in a playoff race.
Well said on a whole lot of points. Especially liked the one about coming to one site to comment about the thread of another. Theres a reason I love it here, and it sure as fuck isnt about to talk about what is going on somewhere else
I think it’s important to keep griping. I get the groundhog aspect of some of these complaints, but this team has traditionally been very sensitive to fan complaints, and I know there’s people involved who read the comments on these blogs. I’m not trying to claim they need to blow it all up, all is lost etc, but they really need to look inward at some of their decision making processes and make some changes. This offseason was an absolute disaster and whatever assumptions/processes/philosophies drove the offseason choices needs banished to the baseball equivalent of Siberia. The fans need to keep the pressure on by complaining on social media/blogs, it’s pretty much all we can do.
I'll firmly disagree that any griping here makes any difference to the actual team. It is VERY healthy to have places to gripe and get things off your chest however I just don't buy at all that beyond possible reading / pulse of the fan that this drives any change. Not sure where there is any proof that this team is any more sensitive to fan complaints than other teams. Part of the job is being a PR monster without it actually impacting decision making. .... however in fairness.. all this response is IMO.
See I actually think they do listen to fan griping. The extensions for Keller and Reynolds are proof of that. Why else would Bob Nutting spend over $100 MM, an outrageous sum of money for him, extending a good but not great player into his age 36 season? They are human and they hear the complaints: prior management team, but I’ll never forget FC joking at Piratefest about how Huntington bore an uncanny resemblance to Ron Howard, which was a direct reference to everyone at BD and on Smizik’s blog derisively calling him Opie.
The players union is watching the Pirates ops closely, and have filed grievances against the team. The owners are watching too for where their revenue-sharing dollars go that they donate to Bob. And all are really watching now that we got Skenes in the lottery 1/1. So three long-term contracts are checking a lot of boxes in keeping the pressure and negative attention off of Bob. I think you are way out over your skis in thinking fan posts have anything to do with how the team operates!
Fan posts not necessarily. Fan sentiment? Potentially. After all, we are the customers. Businesses, of which the Pirates are one, regularly alter their practices to a reasonable degree based on customer sentiment. The Pirates have invested a lot of money holding focus groups, for example, including with paid participants. So it seems a little far fetched to think that customer sentiment is meaningless.
As an aside, I appreciate your comment about the grievances. That’s a plausible explanation for the extensions.
There's a huge difference in repeating a joke about Ron Howard (or I don't know.. noticing the resemblance himself) and committing over $100M because 'the fans' wanted it. I know even mentioning Bob or Ben want to win will inspire anger from some (not saying you). But I don't think it is a stretch that within Bob's budget they felt the risk / reward of extending those two players to increase the chances of eventually having a winning team was 100% the motivation and had nothing to do with fan gripes. Saying proof as a fact implies you were in the discussions when those extensions were made.
I’m saying it because the Reynolds extension makes no sense to me otherwise. And I wouldn’t have mentioned the Piratefest remark if it wasn’t implicit in the context, as I recall it, that they were aware of the things people were saying online, even if they seemed amused by it.
I think we could probably agree on this (?): there’s almost certainly baseball operations people who consume this site and some of the comments. How much they are affected by the content is a whole other question. If you want to argue it’s minimal/non-existent that’s fair. I’d still argue there’s value for them to see the pulse of a portion of the fan base, and understand that not everyone’s criticism is reflexively they are “cheap.”
I do think pulse of the fan is important to them and would not at all be surprised they check in on it. I just don't think it ultimately makes any impact which is where we will just have a friendly disagreement in the Reynolds example. I know there was a lot of dialog (once again.. from fans, not from the front office) that they had to 'prove' they cared by signing Reynolds. IMO that was fan opinion not what really how the decision was made but of course I truly don't know. Until somebody in the front office writes a book we will never know.
My God. Stevie Wonder could see that Huntington looked like Opie. JFC, you guys are nuts.
You think it’s nuts that they read the blogs and pay attention to people’s complaints? Remember, we are also talking about a club president who drove all the way out to Kennedy Township to confront a bar owner over a beer promotion he somehow heard they were running. If you want to think they are unemotional robots who don’t consume the same information we do that’s fine. I just don’t think it’s realistic or human nature.
I think it's asinine to think the Pirates FO has ppl inside these rooms.
I think it's even more asinine to think the Pirates extended Reynolds to appease the fans.
This is high level conspiracy. You probably think Elvis is still alive, the moon landing was fake, and the earth is flat.
They are people.. but I have been around many a cold hearted executive who were very capable of removing their emotions from making MAJOR decisions($100M). I don't think it is nuts to say they may read blogs or that they can react emotional at times but truly think you are way overstating any impact the discussions here have on their ultimate decision making.
Now that I'm firmly in my 40's, instead of hanging at the local pub drinking and watching the game with the locals, I find myself watching the game and mostly following the game threads.
I checked out last night when the BucsDugout nonsense with posters working for the front office and complaining about McCutchen.
I get overly emotional at times; I think the majority of us do. Hell, I wanted to burn it to the ground after the loss Monday night. But the shenanigans we are seeing now is extreme, like the old, old days over at the MLB site when they had comments. We have a nice little community here and I would hate to see it ruined.
I just sort of treat the game threads at times like X/Twitter, since I had to escape that hell site for the sake of my mental health...and am glad that I did. I definitely do not put a lot of thought into in-game reactions (likely overreactions). In general, I think so long as people do not start insulting each other, that's where things go south in a hurry.
I am all this. I don't disagree at face value on many of the complaints.. just seems like we've take a turn to the total dark side / total Monday morning experts mid game.
I am firmly in my early 60s. I love the writing here. Many of same voices form the old site plus many of the same voices posting comments. I post because of the conversations. That is what hooked me on the old site as it was a good diversion for me when I needed one. Still need that as I am anxiously looking forward to retirement. I am too old and have seen all levels of play from the Pirates since the mid 60s when I old enough to understand what I was watching. Still remember street parking in Oakland and walking what seemed like miles to a little kid to Forbes to see games. I am to the point to where I love baseball and love this site because I get to follow young players and actually know who they are when they hit the show. Loved when Jones made his debut and even Fan Radio hosts had no clue that he even existed prior to that. Knew all about him thanks to staff here. Love the group here and choose to be here as opposed to other sites as no nasty name calling because you dare to have a differing opinion. I am too old for that nonsense now. Things in life give you perspective as to what really matters and what doesn’t. Just can’t get so upset that I can’t just sit down and watch a game that I live or have some good baseball talk. Life is too damned short to get that bent out shape about things that we have absolutely no control over. I like the song that Billy Beane’s daugher sings in the movie Moneball, especially the last line…..Just enjoy the show. Great words to live life by. I choose to enjoy the show!
Yep. I also love it here.. my vent/rant was exactly that. I am not going anywhere.
same, brother, same.
nicolas was always the gem of the stallings trade?
Connor Scott we never knew ya
Hudson Head stepping up to the plank...
We got Chavez Young for Zach Thompson. Gone.
Connor Scott’s best stretch was probably the four games I was in the stands in Richmond a couple of years ago. Looked really good. Not much after that.
Played some good defense though at times
I still think they should've tried Scott on the mound. He was in the low 90's coming out of high school and is a good athlete. I don't see him making it as a hitter.
I probably was in the stands for his best defensive game of his career. Had 3 web gems out in RF including robbing a HR in the bottom 9th by Bowie. You could take it to the bank he would have caught both the Olivares ball and Michael A. balls last night. Nice kid too signing autographs after the game. A shame his bat could never heat up.
Tuesday, June 25
38 down. 43 to go.
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Pirates win 9-5 at Great American Ballpark behind a bunch of ogres at the bat rack and a bunch of road runners on the base paths. The Pirates are in third place in the NL Logjam, 8.5 games behind the first place Brewers and 1.5 games ahead of last place Chicago.
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CARROTS ON THE HOUSE!!!!
@> Nick the Stick for his 3 for 4 day with a run and an rbi.
@>@> Meep-meep!! It’s Road-runner Rowdy with a 2 for 4 day with two runs, an rbi, a walk, a k, and … mercy sakes…. a stolen base.
@>@>@> B.Ray for the quietest 22 game hitting streak I’ve ever seen. 2 for 5 with two runs, two rbi and a first inning bomb (#13).
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The Pirates need very much to get on a winning streak. Every time they’re getting near the break-even point they seem to take one step back. Keller looked dominating early and then wobbled to the win thanks to the Ogres. And ya gotta like Mudjinski for his 2.1 innings of scoreless relief which, along with Triolo’s 2-run jack, secured the win.
__________________________
“Hey. Frankenstein. Look out there. In the audience.”
-Wabbit
carrot or stick?
Rowdy's stolen base did not make SportsCenter top 10. I need a copy of the criteria. Aaron Judge homeruns (yes it was a grand slam) happen every other day.
I've been front and center in my criticism of the Pirates' lack of offense and believe it is warranted given the lack of hitting prospects in the minor league system. However these stats from a Tim Benz article are interesting...
"• MLB, as a whole, is on pace for more than 1,400 fewer hits, 1,300 fewer runs and 800 fewer home runs than last year.
• The league is also on pace for the fewest doubles in a season since before the 1993 expansion, the fewest homers since 2015, the fewest hits per game (in a full season) since 1968 — the final year before the mound was lowered, and the lowest batting average on balls in play (.288) since 1992.
• At the time of Stark’s column on Friday, the average hitter was logging a .241 batting average and an OPS of .701. Only 25 hitters are on pace to hit 30 home runs. As recently as 2019, there were 58 of them.
• The average lineup now gets just 8.1 hits per game. That’s the sixth-worst ever and the worst overall since ‘68."
Purely anecdotal but watching the Pirates, I'm wondering if part of this is the result of an expanded strike zone. It seems like a lot of balls are called strikes. Even if mistaken calls are about even, with three strike vs four balls, mistaking a ball for a strike would definitely have a more significant impact on the hitter vs the a strike being called a ball. Thoughts?
It's basically all home runs, right?
MLB sought to kill the home run under the belief that gearing up for power is what's leading to less balls in play and less action.
They, of course, have been wrong.
When facing the kind of pants-shitting stuff pitchers bring today, it's not really any easier to sting a line drive over the second baseman's head than it is to lift a long fly ball out to left. Except to score runs you have to do the former way more often, connected one after another.
It's a *more* difficult way to score runs, which is why clubs self-selected for power, and why offense is down around the league with the only increase in balls in play being those flyouts.
Meanwhile, college is at a point where they may need to do something to tamper down the massive uptick in EVs and frequency.
I've heard about that, wild right?
I watch this baseball bat bro guy on Youtube who demos all the bats with exit velo/distance data and it doesn't seem like the bats themselves are getting hotter.
I know there's some speculation players are modifying the bats, cause there's basically no repercussions, and making it to the show to get paid is the goal.
Not that offense isn’t down, but we see those columns every single year before the weather heats up and offense heats up with it.
No sport loves to wail about the state of the game more than baseball. Maybe more people would watch and enjoy it if they didn’t have that kind of nonsense in their ear 24/7.
It is stunning to see MLB offense down this much, but it is the Pirates who are down even more than the league, in general. They can’t use the excuse that offense is down everywhere when they are this deficient. It’s a total lack of leadership.
My question was whether miscalled balls were a part of the problem across the league, not just the Pirates. Imo, the Bucs have additional factors hurting performance. MAT was never a great hitter. Jack is not a great hitter. Tellez has been bad most of the season. The list is far too long to be a true playoff contender.
Everyone is subject to this strike zone. If it’s affecting the Pirates more, it’s because their hitters have worse strike zone judgment.
“Hitting is down” does nothing to explain the Pirates’ problems. They’re still worse than nearly everyone else. It’s just Shelton, as usual, grasping for excuses.
The Rays series is a perfect example. Just as with us, that lineup was by no means loaded for bear as evidenced by the slash lines of the starters, but they were worlds away from us in terms of approach.
Agree.. numbers are down but Pirates are way down. The one spot that I thought would work was the MAT/Jack platoon (if they would even be 90% of last years splits)....OOPS. But other moves were doomed from the start.
Long ago, I noticed people liked to explain poor performance as a matter of “needing consistency.” I never bought that. Everyone has good and bad stretches. The separator is how many of each, not “consistency.” Aaron Judge has slumps. Mookie Betts has slumps. Nobody thinks they’re inconsistent.
I think this is what’s happened with Jack. (MAT, by contrast, has always been one of the worst hitters in baseball. No offense, but I did see this coming. Plus, Cherington signed him, which is maybe the most predictive analytic in baseball.). Folks assumed that the “real” Jack was the one who’d get hot for a couple weeks every so often, not the one who’d completely tank for a whole month several times a year.
I definitely didn’t see this collapse coming, but I always thought both versions were the “real” Jack. And I was afraid pitchers might figure out how to avoid whatever was producing the good stretches. He clearly wasn’t addressing the problems that produced the bad stretches and he’s in the worst organization in MLB to get help with that. As long as the problems were present, the risk of pitchers figuring it out was present, and something like that has happened.
It won’t help, but he needs to be in the minors. His best chance is to find someone with zero connection to the Pirates who can help him try to remake his whole approach at the plate during the offseason.
I've been wrong on Jack EVERY year. I was an 'anti' Jack early on because of his extended cold streaks I figured MLB pitching finally figured him out.. and then boom by the end of year his WAR was very good. So this year I bought in and thought as a strong side of a platoon he can work. Honestly I am not sure what to think now other than I tend to agree with your assessment - minor leagues and some new view / coaching.
I'll still disagree some on MAT. Last year was a career year vs. LHP but I still thought his career splits made him a decent short side platoon / late inning defensive sub. Apparently his defense last night (didn't see it) may also be poking holes in some of my assumption.
Being wrong on players every year…welcome to the club, SB! There’s plenty of room.
Their hole organizational strategy is contingent upon taking balls that are now considered strikes by modern day umpires
Great rebound for the Pirates and especially for team leader Bryan Reynolds, Nick Gonzales with 3 hits to break out of a mini-slump, Jared Triolo with a 2R HR, and fine pitching from SP Mitch Keller and Carmen Mlodzinski out of the BP for 2.1 IP. And, it looks like Oneil Cruz is starting to feel a lot more confident again - that ankle injury that cost him almost all of 2023 could be behind him completely.
Good news on the pitching front re Braxton Ashcraft with an efficient 5 IP at AAA, and LHRP Luis Peralta showing well at AA. The Pirates are absolutely loaded with competent pitching at every level, and especially at the MLB/near MLB levels. The Pirates/BC took some gambles along the way to build that level of pitching, and it should be time to think about using some of that pitching to get a solid young CF to step in right now. Or, could the Pirates get a first rate CF for one of their FA SP's such as Perez or Gonzalez, and an add of MI Bae/other, or our FA RP Aroldis Chapman.
Play for now versus Play for the tomorrow's - I think we can do both, and there are plenty of teams out there looking for pitching help in the next month.
I think hitting is going to be muy expensive this season. I could see teams wanting Suwinski for a rental OF hitter. Jack from last year would cost 2 of our top 5 prospects this year. It’s a pickle.
VG in 2023, struggling in 2024 - we keep him and hope he can figure it out. Young CF's with 4+ years of service left who can hit 26 HR's are not very plentiful.
Idk, I can’t see anyone giving anything - even a lottery ticket - for Jack this summer…could be wrong though I suppose. Maybe, if anyone, a non-contender just looking to take a flyer? (A la, most years, a Pirate-y trade target)
Really the only thing he would have going for him (besides last year’s stat line) would be the fact that he’s *not* a rental. Someone could take him for peanuts (maybe good ol’ Cash Considerations) and hope they are able to re-find something resembling a MLB bat.
Can’t see any contender being interested though. Has been nearly unwatchable for the most part with the bat, and equally so before and after his stint in the minors. Like, if the Pirates somehow found -another- guy that has somehow put up almost negative two WAR in just two months of play, with an OPS that would be solidly last among qualifiers if he were qualified….would you want Ben to trade for that guy? Even take him for free?
Last year he led the Bucs with 26 HR and he is still 25 (turns 26 in July). Yes, he is struggling. Of course, we also paid $4 mil for the privilege of watching an "all D, no bat" CF in MAT. We have to solidify what we already have - Reynolds and Suwinski is a VG start. Be nice to land a relatively inexpensive, young CF - preferably one who is a switchhitter. A few switchhitting CF's to consider would be Jonatan Clase, 22 (Seattle), Steward Berroa, 25 (Toronto), & Wenceel Perez, 25 (Detroit). Perez is currently starting in Detroit, Clase was up and back down earlier in 2024, and Berroa was just up and back down for Toronto.