The Rowdy DFA parallels the Juan Nicasio DFA in that- who cares? The move has no effect on the future of the Pirates and is just another small thing for diehards to bemoan.
The no-way-to-treat-a-vet take is puzzling. He was coming off a terrible season and has always been a replacement level player (for some reason his sub-mediocre career #s always get overlooked), yet he got a full year minus a week on a ML deal despite totally tanking for half that time. He should thank his lucky stars somebody was dimwitted enough to employ Cherington as a GM.
Yorke has a very good swing and a good approach at the plate. His defense looks fine for second but questionable anywhere else (excluding 1st, haven't seen him play there).
Cook definitely has holes in his swing, mainly on high in zone and on the outer edge along with chasing on low and away breaking pitches (just low as well). Cook is probably the best defensive outfielder on the team with MAT gone. I don't see him as an everyday regular but as a solid 4th or 5th outfielder. At least with getting mlb at bats he'll have an idea of what to work on. He's the type of player I think should really work on bunting for base hits, not only because of his speed but to draw in the 3rd basemen.
I have doubts about Cook, less about Yorke. The issue, as always, is whether they have somebody else more likely to be a future contributor. The answer, as always, is no. So better Cook than MAT, Joe, Tellez or BDLC.
Likewise with Cook and Yorke, though I have been impressed with Cook's defense overall*. In theory we gave up more for Yorke though I has lost a lot of confidence in Priester, but it makes some sense that he'd be the better acquisition.
*Didn't Shelton have an argument that Hoskins ran out of the baseline on Cook's bad throw to 2B? I was surprised that nobody raised that question as Hoskins went well into the infield grass to disrupt the throw. But then I've often thought Shelton doesn't pick the right battles.
So it was reported that Tellez and Taylor were let go to give more experience to Peguero and Palacios but neither were in the starting lineup with 6 games to go. This front office is so full of shit!
This is the real issue. If they really care about improving the team, these moves were way late in coming, just like Cook and especially Yorke were late in being called up. By mid-August, there was no coherent explanation for continuing to cling to Tellez, MAT, Alika and Joe.
It's OK to keep Alika around. Like I said before, he has a little value next year in that, he is like a 41st man on the roster. He is just good enough to be an emergency infield replacement callup and just bad enough that you can DFA him multiple times and he will pass through waivers.
There seems to be some irony that the Pirates were so slow to part with Tellez, a player who never felt the need to run out grounders.
I actually have mixed feelings about the timing. On the one hand, he's been bad enough in September and should never have been considered part of the future so I figure the DFA is better late than never. OTOH, moves with a week left seem silly unless you're rewarding someone and it's not clear that either Peguero (whom I really like) or Palacios have had the kind of season to earn a reward at the end.
In any case, while I don't think the bonus factored in, they should have been aware of the bad optics and it just reinforces the concerns about the FO's ability to see the big picture.
Do we have better options at 1b for 2025? The free agent class at 1b for next year has a few guys at the top who we know the pirates won't pursue and then a lot of rubbish like Tellez. Tellez should have been cut in may or June and the Pirates should have pursued a trade. A trade is the only way I see them improving 1b unless they move Reynolds to 1b. I just don't see Bob writing a check for anyone decent.
I think that's the best option as long as Reynolds is willing. It's easier to get lucky with an outfielder than 1b.....of course if Bob wants to pay for Pete Alonso, I won't complain 😉
Blogs, comment sections, the 24 hour news cycle, the very devices we are all typing on are all meant for belaboring, getting people riled up. Facebook’s entire business model is confrontation. Since I’ve signed up for Substack most of the suggested content it shows me is stuff that’s outrageous.
Specific to this discussion: Only so much you can talk about when your team isn’t any good, and so most it devolves into complaining. Losing is misery and the message boards reflect that. It also doesn’t help that we all have different ideas of what constitutes ideal content and engagement either.
X and Facebook basically have the same business model. I assume other social media companies operate similarly as well. They’ve figured out that if people are upset they click more. So you find out what enrages people and shove it in their feed. Facebook in particular, only shows you a tiny percentage of things you’re subscribed to. Everything else is paid content they think you “might like.” As a result social media has turned into an absolute hellscape.
last time I was on FB was about a decade ago. My experience was a bunch of insecure ppl posting what they did in their mundane existence. Really don't care what you made for dinner and had enough for leftovers the next day. That and friend invites from ppl I barely know. I don't remember it being a cesspool like X.
Why should Tellez get a bonus? For hustle? For performance? For leadership? For his rapport with the fans after insulting them?
Good for the Pirates for DFAing him, but it should have happened 4 months ago. In fact, they should have never signed him. The only interest that I have in this non-story is that it indicates that he will not be back next season, so I don't have to watch him half-ass plays all season, while being a defensive liability and a below average hitter. All in all... a little bit of good news.
I couldn't help thinking about Tellez's jogging out grounders when listening to Brown heap praise on Reynolds' leadership for running all out to 1B on a routine grounder last night. It made me wonder if Brown chose last night to highlight this (a bit over the top even, but that's Brown) because of the contrast with Tellez's effort.
Over the top? Probably, but I don't think people appreciate Reynolds and the job he has done for the Pirates enough. For years, he and Bednar were the only 2 reasons to watch this team. He always carries himself with class, always gives 100%, and is the consumate professional at all times. The definition of class act.
Sad but true. MAT had to wait to ST to get a deal and I can't imagine any team offering Tellez a better deal than what we did, with most probably wanting a minor league deal with an NRI.
At least Santana was a good signing last year, but then we missed on the opportunity to bring him back despite him wanting to come back.
Santana and a replacement level CF’er would have cheaper and a better WAR output than MAT and Tellez were. Such a missed opportunity. This team really needed someone who offered the quality of at bats that Santana would have given you.
I firmly believe that Bednar's issues are between his ears.
Every time he pitches in a low leverage situation, he's fine. As soon as Shelton puts him back in for a hold or save, he starts coughing up hairballs...
brother my mind is off and on from one day to the next let alone three years. ;)
Just my take, but I'm a firm believer in success breeding confidence but not the reciprocal. Not out of the question for me that starting so poorly with injury and performance has thrown him off all year in some combination of physical and mental.
...I allllllso, though, think we might've just seen 2013 Joel Hanrahan. Some of these dudes burn hot and fast.
Bad bodied closers age like milk on a countertop. Matt Capps! There’s another!
Anecdotal evidence never stopped me from making a point before and it won’t stop me now. I can’t help but look at guys like Mo Rivera and Chapman who are in tip top shape and think being in that shape had something to do with it.
Good suggestion. Peguero did well for a 22 year old last year with the Pirates. With almost no experience at AAA, he hit fairly well for the Pirates, and fielded well at SS (39 Games, .960) and 2B (33 Games, 1.000). But, his youth and a 31.5% K rate earned him the ticket to spend a year at AAA in 2024.
The aging IKF is not the answer for the Pirates. Peguero would be my candidate to start at SS for the Pirates in 2025. Going into his age 24 season, he has the tools on both sides of the ball. He'll finish 2024 with about 86 days of MLB Service and 1 Option remaining.
I'm in as long as Arizona and KC last (as long as KC makes the playoffs... what a disastrous slump they are in... could cost them what was pretty much an automatic playoff bid 10 days ago).
You keep high-lighting Fangraphs WAR. Maybe someone smarter than me or with a better phone can find his dWAR, cause I sure can't. His dWAR is going to be horrible, he also can't run, but his bat is probably a 1-2 OWAR.....had a 91 OPS+, so only 9% less than an average 1st baseman despite his horrible April-May. The majority of position players were worse than 91 OPS. If you want to you can keep dismissing his .925 OPS in June, .916 OPS in July, and .813 OPS in August......well go for it. These were months where he was a key contributor to keeping the Pirates in a competitive WC position around .500. This is not Austin Hedges, Michael A., or Yoshi. Tellez hit a ball into the river at PNC, the guy has power. I could care less about Sept as we are out of it and just going thru the motions. At age 30 next year, guarantee he gets a MLB deal.
No kidding. I’m not the one cherry picking here, 1979 is. For the year, Rowdy had a wRC+ of 89. Among 33 1B with 400+ PAs, Rowdy ranked 31st. That’s without getting into his bad defense and baserunning. If he gets a ML deal, it’ll be as a bench bat.
I was curious about his comment: baseball reference had his oWAR as exactly replacement level. That was predictable. The bad defense was predictable. For all the talk of his power, his 13 home runs was tied for 24th with 5 other guys amongst all 1B with at least 400 PA’s. It was a bad signing. Guys like this are waiver wire types who typically get passed around. He’s no different than Mike Ford or Ron Guzman or Daniel Vogelbach. We just overpaid by about $1-$2 million for the production, for whatever reason.
I guess MLB not dropping the AFL rosters on my birthday yesterday was a present in it's own that I didn't actually have to 'work' lol.
I'll have a full write up on the rosters tomorrow, and start again on the postseason awards on Friday.
Count me in for playoff threads!
If NMR is posting, I’ll likely feel compelled to chime in occasionally. 😎
The Rowdy DFA parallels the Juan Nicasio DFA in that- who cares? The move has no effect on the future of the Pirates and is just another small thing for diehards to bemoan.
The no-way-to-treat-a-vet take is puzzling. He was coming off a terrible season and has always been a replacement level player (for some reason his sub-mediocre career #s always get overlooked), yet he got a full year minus a week on a ML deal despite totally tanking for half that time. He should thank his lucky stars somebody was dimwitted enough to employ Cherington as a GM.
Even if I squint really hard, I'm struggling to see much with Cook and Yorke. Maybe Yorke, but he's really going to need to hit...like 115 wRC+
Cook has holes throughout his swing, and I don't see him being able to adjust.
Yorke has a very good swing and a good approach at the plate. His defense looks fine for second but questionable anywhere else (excluding 1st, haven't seen him play there).
Cook definitely has holes in his swing, mainly on high in zone and on the outer edge along with chasing on low and away breaking pitches (just low as well). Cook is probably the best defensive outfielder on the team with MAT gone. I don't see him as an everyday regular but as a solid 4th or 5th outfielder. At least with getting mlb at bats he'll have an idea of what to work on. He's the type of player I think should really work on bunting for base hits, not only because of his speed but to draw in the 3rd basemen.
I WILL NOT STAND FOR THE COOK SLANDER! (very likely valid points though)
I have doubts about Cook, less about Yorke. The issue, as always, is whether they have somebody else more likely to be a future contributor. The answer, as always, is no. So better Cook than MAT, Joe, Tellez or BDLC.
zero walks and a 42% k rate, albeit in a small sample.
Likewise with Cook and Yorke, though I have been impressed with Cook's defense overall*. In theory we gave up more for Yorke though I has lost a lot of confidence in Priester, but it makes some sense that he'd be the better acquisition.
*Didn't Shelton have an argument that Hoskins ran out of the baseline on Cook's bad throw to 2B? I was surprised that nobody raised that question as Hoskins went well into the infield grass to disrupt the throw. But then I've often thought Shelton doesn't pick the right battles.
cook makes me wonder why we ever got rid of John Nogowski
The "promote the kids!" cycle continues lol
So it was reported that Tellez and Taylor were let go to give more experience to Peguero and Palacios but neither were in the starting lineup with 6 games to go. This front office is so full of shit!
This is the real issue. If they really care about improving the team, these moves were way late in coming, just like Cook and especially Yorke were late in being called up. By mid-August, there was no coherent explanation for continuing to cling to Tellez, MAT, Alika and Joe.
It's OK to keep Alika around. Like I said before, he has a little value next year in that, he is like a 41st man on the roster. He is just good enough to be an emergency infield replacement callup and just bad enough that you can DFA him multiple times and he will pass through waivers.
LONG LIVE ROWDY!
There seems to be some irony that the Pirates were so slow to part with Tellez, a player who never felt the need to run out grounders.
I actually have mixed feelings about the timing. On the one hand, he's been bad enough in September and should never have been considered part of the future so I figure the DFA is better late than never. OTOH, moves with a week left seem silly unless you're rewarding someone and it's not clear that either Peguero (whom I really like) or Palacios have had the kind of season to earn a reward at the end.
In any case, while I don't think the bonus factored in, they should have been aware of the bad optics and it just reinforces the concerns about the FO's ability to see the big picture.
who cares? why belabor this? at the end of the day this is all meaningless.
Is it odd? yes, it's very odd to DFA a dude with 6 days remaining in the season.
Are the comments from BC odd? Again yes.
Should we expect anything less? Absolutely not.
What are sports discussion boards (or call-in shows) for other than belaboring points?
Seriously, my only response at the time was to be glad that it meant he wouldn't be back in '25 as we have better options at 1B.
Do we have better options at 1b for 2025? The free agent class at 1b for next year has a few guys at the top who we know the pirates won't pursue and then a lot of rubbish like Tellez. Tellez should have been cut in may or June and the Pirates should have pursued a trade. A trade is the only way I see them improving 1b unless they move Reynolds to 1b. I just don't see Bob writing a check for anyone decent.
I'm counting on Reynolds moving to 1B. The challenge then becomes filling in the OF but we've had more success with that over the years than at 1B.
I think that's the best option as long as Reynolds is willing. It's easier to get lucky with an outfielder than 1b.....of course if Bob wants to pay for Pete Alonso, I won't complain 😉
Blogs, comment sections, the 24 hour news cycle, the very devices we are all typing on are all meant for belaboring, getting people riled up. Facebook’s entire business model is confrontation. Since I’ve signed up for Substack most of the suggested content it shows me is stuff that’s outrageous.
Specific to this discussion: Only so much you can talk about when your team isn’t any good, and so most it devolves into complaining. Losing is misery and the message boards reflect that. It also doesn’t help that we all have different ideas of what constitutes ideal content and engagement either.
ppl suck. I'm not sure why anyone would do facebook.
what you are basically describing is X. Just a cesspool of negativity.
X and Facebook basically have the same business model. I assume other social media companies operate similarly as well. They’ve figured out that if people are upset they click more. So you find out what enrages people and shove it in their feed. Facebook in particular, only shows you a tiny percentage of things you’re subscribed to. Everything else is paid content they think you “might like.” As a result social media has turned into an absolute hellscape.
last time I was on FB was about a decade ago. My experience was a bunch of insecure ppl posting what they did in their mundane existence. Really don't care what you made for dinner and had enough for leftovers the next day. That and friend invites from ppl I barely know. I don't remember it being a cesspool like X.
Yes, keep the process going. And, as a lifelong Pirates fan, this DFA of Tellez is embarrassing and thoughtless.
Maybe it will embarrass Nutting enough that he'll either:
1. Open his wallet for a big FA signing or extension;
2. Can Cherington.
Maybe honoring the bonus would be a start
Why should Tellez get a bonus? For hustle? For performance? For leadership? For his rapport with the fans after insulting them?
Good for the Pirates for DFAing him, but it should have happened 4 months ago. In fact, they should have never signed him. The only interest that I have in this non-story is that it indicates that he will not be back next season, so I don't have to watch him half-ass plays all season, while being a defensive liability and a below average hitter. All in all... a little bit of good news.
I couldn't help thinking about Tellez's jogging out grounders when listening to Brown heap praise on Reynolds' leadership for running all out to 1B on a routine grounder last night. It made me wonder if Brown chose last night to highlight this (a bit over the top even, but that's Brown) because of the contrast with Tellez's effort.
Over the top? Probably, but I don't think people appreciate Reynolds and the job he has done for the Pirates enough. For years, he and Bednar were the only 2 reasons to watch this team. He always carries himself with class, always gives 100%, and is the consumate professional at all times. The definition of class act.
Just don't watch them at all. We all know, you'll find someone else to bitch and moan about all year.
Because the clown show that is the Pittsburgh Pirates will offer ample idiotic behaviors to bitch about, sure.
https://www.mlb.com/news/top-20-high-school-prospects-for-2025-mlb-draft
Way too early I know but that team Corona in Cali must be loaded.
I love Basic HS.
"What High School did you go to?"
"Basic"
"Ok, but what was it called"
"Basic"
Why would anyone sign with the Pirates if its clear they'll DFA you to save $200k?
Most guys Cherington signs are choosing between that and a MiL deal.
Sad but true. MAT had to wait to ST to get a deal and I can't imagine any team offering Tellez a better deal than what we did, with most probably wanting a minor league deal with an NRI.
At least Santana was a good signing last year, but then we missed on the opportunity to bring him back despite him wanting to come back.
Santana and a replacement level CF’er would have cheaper and a better WAR output than MAT and Tellez were. Such a missed opportunity. This team really needed someone who offered the quality of at bats that Santana would have given you.
Because of the free guaranteed money for being meh
Sure, do the play-off updates
what to do about the bullpen is quite the pickle
solid argument cound say that health, mental bounceback and tenure could put us into an elite 2025 bullpen
so we go spend a lot of money or prospects just to shove one of these guys off the roster?
Bednar
Chapman
Holderman
Santana
Nicolas
Oviedo
Mlodzinski
Moreta
Borucki
Stratton
Wentz
Ashcraft
Burrows
I think Borucki and Chapman are free agents. I'm also unsure of when Stratton might be back. Haven't heard anything about a timeline on his injury.
I firmly believe that Bednar's issues are between his ears.
Every time he pitches in a low leverage situation, he's fine. As soon as Shelton puts him back in for a hold or save, he starts coughing up hairballs...
Why was he great for 3 years before that then?
brother my mind is off and on from one day to the next let alone three years. ;)
Just my take, but I'm a firm believer in success breeding confidence but not the reciprocal. Not out of the question for me that starting so poorly with injury and performance has thrown him off all year in some combination of physical and mental.
...I allllllso, though, think we might've just seen 2013 Joel Hanrahan. Some of these dudes burn hot and fast.
Another chance to cash in on a high value reliever lost again
Bad bodied closers age like milk on a countertop. Matt Capps! There’s another!
Anecdotal evidence never stopped me from making a point before and it won’t stop me now. I can’t help but look at guys like Mo Rivera and Chapman who are in tip top shape and think being in that shape had something to do with it.
Not to mention Rowdy (bad body closer) who closed several games.
how about get Peguero in the game?
Good suggestion. Peguero did well for a 22 year old last year with the Pirates. With almost no experience at AAA, he hit fairly well for the Pirates, and fielded well at SS (39 Games, .960) and 2B (33 Games, 1.000). But, his youth and a 31.5% K rate earned him the ticket to spend a year at AAA in 2024.
The aging IKF is not the answer for the Pirates. Peguero would be my candidate to start at SS for the Pirates in 2025. Going into his age 24 season, he has the tools on both sides of the ball. He'll finish 2024 with about 86 days of MLB Service and 1 Option remaining.
Love the idea of a game thread for the playoffs. We need to build up commenting endurance for next year when the Bucs go all the way!
Keep it going!
I'd drop in from time to time.
I'm in as long as Arizona and KC last (as long as KC makes the playoffs... what a disastrous slump they are in... could cost them what was pretty much an automatic playoff bid 10 days ago).
The Twins collapse gives them some hope.
I hope Rowdy dropped a deuce on Cheringron’s desk before leaving. I hope Haines had to clean it up.
I smell a grievance coming up....
those smell like shit? ;)
Over cutting a guy worth -0.5 fWAR? Good luck with that.
You keep high-lighting Fangraphs WAR. Maybe someone smarter than me or with a better phone can find his dWAR, cause I sure can't. His dWAR is going to be horrible, he also can't run, but his bat is probably a 1-2 OWAR.....had a 91 OPS+, so only 9% less than an average 1st baseman despite his horrible April-May. The majority of position players were worse than 91 OPS. If you want to you can keep dismissing his .925 OPS in June, .916 OPS in July, and .813 OPS in August......well go for it. These were months where he was a key contributor to keeping the Pirates in a competitive WC position around .500. This is not Austin Hedges, Michael A., or Yoshi. Tellez hit a ball into the river at PNC, the guy has power. I could care less about Sept as we are out of it and just going thru the motions. At age 30 next year, guarantee he gets a MLB deal.
1bmen are expected to hit better than league average.
No kidding. I’m not the one cherry picking here, 1979 is. For the year, Rowdy had a wRC+ of 89. Among 33 1B with 400+ PAs, Rowdy ranked 31st. That’s without getting into his bad defense and baserunning. If he gets a ML deal, it’ll be as a bench bat.
I was curious about his comment: baseball reference had his oWAR as exactly replacement level. That was predictable. The bad defense was predictable. For all the talk of his power, his 13 home runs was tied for 24th with 5 other guys amongst all 1B with at least 400 PA’s. It was a bad signing. Guys like this are waiver wire types who typically get passed around. He’s no different than Mike Ford or Ron Guzman or Daniel Vogelbach. We just overpaid by about $1-$2 million for the production, for whatever reason.