How do the Rays do it? They pounded the Tigers last night 14-8 and are up 5-0 today. They are eight games over .500 and only a game and a half behind the Yankees for first place in the AL East.
I look at their lineup and don’t recognize half the names. They have no superstars. (They did, but Wander Franco decided to have a relationship with a 13-year-old). They just win on no budget. It’s phenomenal.
They appear to have a cheat code that the Pirates need to steal.
Remember when they were the team that used all of those relievers. They currently lead the majors in most innings pitched from their starting pitchers... at least they did a few days ago.
They do everything the Pirates don’t. They’re good in Lat Am. They actually don’t draft well, but they’re extremely good at trades. They trade established players before they start to suck. They look for upside and give opportunities to guys who have it, instead of obsessing over washed-up veterans. Obviously, they don’t give a shit about veteranosity. They’re not afraid to churn their roster constantly.
The bottom line is, they’re willing to take risks. Nuttin’s teams have always been terrified of the slightest risk, and that goes way beyond just financial risks.
They also have a top-flight developmental program that churns out 1-3 WAR players consistently. They are very good at getting random guys from LatAm or 8th round draft picks just good enough to play competitively at the MLB level. That is really the secret of their success: player development, which was supposed to be Cherington's claim to fame. As we can see, this claim, as with all of his word salad, was nonsense.
I would add that their development program is anything but "player driven." It is pretty systematic and controlled by coaches and analysts.
As someone pointed out the other day, nobody swings harder and misses more than does Cruz. Maybe we just live with that. Or maybe a hitting coach could work with him on having a little more of a controlled swing, trade a little EV for contact? Probably not realistic at this stage of his career, but as I was watching last night I wondered what would happen if his next contract had an incentive for batting, say, .275 or higher.
Last night’s bottom of the 4th was classic 2025 Bucs. Five consecutive guys reached base with two outs including four with hits. And all it produced was 2 runs. That’s very nearly the minimum possible. Only Nick took an extra base - WITH TWO OUTS, running on contact. It’s hard to put up runs with station-to-station baseball. It takes a lot of guys reaching.
Kelly is spineless, in his post-game interview he liked how Cruz showed more effort for the rest of the game. Rather than stating he'll be addressing things with Cruz.
But you do want him to state the obvious, there's a room full of press and thousands of Pirate fans that want to hear he'll be addressing it. He'll learn, he's brand new as manager. And lack of action on Skenes vs. Skubal doesn't help
I guess it comes a bit down to feel and style for handling this sort of thing but his effort on that ball feels like it deserves more than just a conversation but thats just me
I think there is a strong comp here with Devers in Boston. Do we really want to extend Cruz? The Red Sox reached their limit with Devers very quickly and bailed.
You're a regular poster and reader here, so I wouldn't think hearing about the warts on this team would bother you :)
Actually, it is different when it's someone else talking about our team. That's why I almost never listen to the opponent's broadcasters even though they're sometimes objectively better.
And where did I blame Bart? You're tending to read things into your narrative that aren't there......just like the Cruz comment that he's "currently" playing poorly. The point with Bart, is we need him and many others to play "up" to a level they once played at and not "down" to a lower level.
Is it my narrative or is it fans here jagging on the few Pirate players performing at an ok level? That eventually happens: fans turn on guys who are ok or even decent for not being better than they are. Apologies if I’m too abrasive here, but I feel there are far bigger issues in the organization than the “current” struggles of Bart and Cruz.
More to the point, a catcher’s offense varies greatly from year to year, due to the physical rigors of the position. Even if Bart lost his power stroke this year, he’s getting on base at well over the average OBP.
Four (4) Days Suspension for what? Other than PED's (80 Days), not sure they have anything higher than a day or two for anything short of beating somebody with at bat!
That will likely be reduced on appeal, maybe to 2 games. He would have initiated a physical confrontation had there not been a 10' high wall separating the pen from fans above. He tried climbing the wall. Yeah 2 games for sure.
6 batters in the lineup with hits and 2 of the ones who did not hit, Cruz and Cutch, are team hitting leaders. This team is not able to sustain enough offense to outscore a team like the Rangers when we give up 6 runs. We're getting better, but over 5 runs is difficult to overcome.
Yorke with his .718 OPS in AAA and 4 K's in 5 AB's last night? He needs to earn his way up and so far has been another disappointing Cherington acquisition. Meanwhile, Priester is 5-2 with a 3.46 ERA.
To be transparent, I liked this trade at the time and haven't given up on Yorke, but it seems to be following the pattern of so many of Cherington's trades.
The trouble with “earning his way up” is that most of the guys up now are nowhere close to earning their continued presence. Performance in the major leagues needs to become relevant to this team. In six years, it never has been. If we wait until the idiot GM gets guys in AAA who’re guaranteed to succeed in the majors, it’s gonna be Phamine Forever.
Brewers may have figured something out with Priester. I don't think he was doing all that well in Boston. Good organizations with smart baseball people figure out how to get the best out of players.....the Pirates on the other hand are excellent at destroying a players best skills.
If any team was, it's the Brewers. The Guardians are also up there in getting the most out of pitchers. Ortiz has been inconsistent with them so far, but I feel pretty certain they'll help him settle into being a solid pitcher.
I agree with what you are saying on the hitting side, but when it comes to starting pitchers I think the Pirates have done quite well in this category.
I was just saying guys like Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Bailey Falter, Martin Perez, Andrew Heaney and maybe a couple others have done better than expected.
To answer your bullpen question, I think signing Aroldis Chapman would have solved a lot. I blame that on Nutting.
I get not signing Chapman at $10 million. There were cheaper options but BC failed on pretty much every move this past off season. It's amazing he's still employed.
How do the Rays do it? They pounded the Tigers last night 14-8 and are up 5-0 today. They are eight games over .500 and only a game and a half behind the Yankees for first place in the AL East.
I look at their lineup and don’t recognize half the names. They have no superstars. (They did, but Wander Franco decided to have a relationship with a 13-year-old). They just win on no budget. It’s phenomenal.
They appear to have a cheat code that the Pirates need to steal.
Remember when they were the team that used all of those relievers. They currently lead the majors in most innings pitched from their starting pitchers... at least they did a few days ago.
They do everything the Pirates don’t. They’re good in Lat Am. They actually don’t draft well, but they’re extremely good at trades. They trade established players before they start to suck. They look for upside and give opportunities to guys who have it, instead of obsessing over washed-up veterans. Obviously, they don’t give a shit about veteranosity. They’re not afraid to churn their roster constantly.
The bottom line is, they’re willing to take risks. Nuttin’s teams have always been terrified of the slightest risk, and that goes way beyond just financial risks.
They also have a top-flight developmental program that churns out 1-3 WAR players consistently. They are very good at getting random guys from LatAm or 8th round draft picks just good enough to play competitively at the MLB level. That is really the secret of their success: player development, which was supposed to be Cherington's claim to fame. As we can see, this claim, as with all of his word salad, was nonsense.
I would add that their development program is anything but "player driven." It is pretty systematic and controlled by coaches and analysts.
https://www.justbaseball.com/mlb-draft/mlb-draft-combine-recap/
Draft combine recap
Donnie ball needs to drop Cruz in the lineup. Maybe 5th or 6th will help him relax a bit.
Oneil is taking his struggles at the plate into the field.
As someone pointed out the other day, nobody swings harder and misses more than does Cruz. Maybe we just live with that. Or maybe a hitting coach could work with him on having a little more of a controlled swing, trade a little EV for contact? Probably not realistic at this stage of his career, but as I was watching last night I wondered what would happen if his next contract had an incentive for batting, say, .275 or higher.
Last night’s bottom of the 4th was classic 2025 Bucs. Five consecutive guys reached base with two outs including four with hits. And all it produced was 2 runs. That’s very nearly the minimum possible. Only Nick took an extra base - WITH TWO OUTS, running on contact. It’s hard to put up runs with station-to-station baseball. It takes a lot of guys reaching.
If Kelly doesnt bench Cruz then hes as spineless as the rest of them. That was possibly the most embarrassing effort ive ever seen on an MLB field
Kelly is spineless, in his post-game interview he liked how Cruz showed more effort for the rest of the game. Rather than stating he'll be addressing things with Cruz.
I would guess Kelly did have a conversation with Oneil.
Kelly not stating the obvious doesn’t make him spineless.
But you do want him to state the obvious, there's a room full of press and thousands of Pirate fans that want to hear he'll be addressing it. He'll learn, he's brand new as manager. And lack of action on Skenes vs. Skubal doesn't help
me with my overall opinion either.
I guess it comes a bit down to feel and style for handling this sort of thing but his effort on that ball feels like it deserves more than just a conversation but thats just me
I think there is a strong comp here with Devers in Boston. Do we really want to extend Cruz? The Red Sox reached their limit with Devers very quickly and bailed.
Yes, extend Cruz but not for the same numbers that Devers got.
Considering if I should watch today's game on FS1 or not?.....and get to hear the announcers reciting all of the many warts on this team.
You're a regular poster and reader here, so I wouldn't think hearing about the warts on this team would bother you :)
Actually, it is different when it's someone else talking about our team. That's why I almost never listen to the opponent's broadcasters even though they're sometimes objectively better.
Canario with a spectacular catch last night in LF. Hoping Cruz was paying attention.
Joey Bart 4 for his last 5, but alas all singles.
Need him to find his power stroke like last season.
I’ll take hits, man. They don’t get enough of those to begin with.
They need slugging in order to win more ballgames. Extra base hits. They're last in the league.
Totally smart to blame the guy who played well in the loss though, right?
And where did I blame Bart? You're tending to read things into your narrative that aren't there......just like the Cruz comment that he's "currently" playing poorly. The point with Bart, is we need him and many others to play "up" to a level they once played at and not "down" to a lower level.
Is it my narrative or is it fans here jagging on the few Pirate players performing at an ok level? That eventually happens: fans turn on guys who are ok or even decent for not being better than they are. Apologies if I’m too abrasive here, but I feel there are far bigger issues in the organization than the “current” struggles of Bart and Cruz.
More to the point, a catcher’s offense varies greatly from year to year, due to the physical rigors of the position. Even if Bart lost his power stroke this year, he’s getting on base at well over the average OBP.
Edward Adonis Florentino promoted.
You just like writing Adonis.
Well deserved!
What was Owen Kellington’s injury? TJ?
Yep
Four (4) Days Suspension for what? Other than PED's (80 Days), not sure they have anything higher than a day or two for anything short of beating somebody with at bat!
That will likely be reduced on appeal, maybe to 2 games. He would have initiated a physical confrontation had there not been a 10' high wall separating the pen from fans above. He tried climbing the wall. Yeah 2 games for sure.
6 batters in the lineup with hits and 2 of the ones who did not hit, Cruz and Cutch, are team hitting leaders. This team is not able to sustain enough offense to outscore a team like the Rangers when we give up 6 runs. We're getting better, but over 5 runs is difficult to overcome.
Today, I would cut Pham (duh), activate Reynolds, option Triolo, recall Yorke, DFA Canario, recall Simon, and leave Cook on the roster.
Yorke with his .718 OPS in AAA and 4 K's in 5 AB's last night? He needs to earn his way up and so far has been another disappointing Cherington acquisition. Meanwhile, Priester is 5-2 with a 3.46 ERA.
To be transparent, I liked this trade at the time and haven't given up on Yorke, but it seems to be following the pattern of so many of Cherington's trades.
The trouble with “earning his way up” is that most of the guys up now are nowhere close to earning their continued presence. Performance in the major leagues needs to become relevant to this team. In six years, it never has been. If we wait until the idiot GM gets guys in AAA who’re guaranteed to succeed in the majors, it’s gonna be Phamine Forever.
Brewers may have figured something out with Priester. I don't think he was doing all that well in Boston. Good organizations with smart baseball people figure out how to get the best out of players.....the Pirates on the other hand are excellent at destroying a players best skills.
If any team was, it's the Brewers. The Guardians are also up there in getting the most out of pitchers. Ortiz has been inconsistent with them so far, but I feel pretty certain they'll help him settle into being a solid pitcher.
Luis Ortiz is giving Cleveland the same value as he did with the Pirates.
Wish we could say the same for Horrorwrist.
I agree with what you are saying on the hitting side, but when it comes to starting pitchers I think the Pirates have done quite well in this category.
Have they or has those few pitchers excelled due to their own abilities? Our bullpen is a trainwreck and that should be the easiest part to fix.
I was just saying guys like Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana, Bailey Falter, Martin Perez, Andrew Heaney and maybe a couple others have done better than expected.
To answer your bullpen question, I think signing Aroldis Chapman would have solved a lot. I blame that on Nutting.
I get not signing Chapman at $10 million. There were cheaper options but BC failed on pretty much every move this past off season. It's amazing he's still employed.
So re-arrange the deck chairs.