Started reading a line on Fangraphs about the 121 loss CWS and their owner JR, and go into the comments and people are talking about the Pirates and Bob Nutting. When your team appears in the same conversation as the 121 loss 2024 CWS, maybe it's time to wake up!
Typical me--I turned it off in disgust after the Braves retook the lead but didn't tune back in in time to see Lindor's HR. Amazing game, and now it will be really interesting to see what the Mets do for Game 2. Are they tempted to knock out one of their biggest rivals or do they rest guys for tomorrow?
Different situation, obviously, but Cutch clearly has Nutting's ear and I think Nutting should call Cutch in and get his thoughts on Shelton, Haines, and Kelly. Of course this would all be confidential so we'll never know if it happens. But Cutch has played with enough managers, including some highly regarded managers, to provide valuable insights.
Just a thought I've had and was reminded of when seeing Posey's leadership role with the Giants.
I actually wouldn't mind Steven Brault getting a position in the front office (not GM or PoBO) or a place on the coaching staff. Brault just seems like a guy that will figure a way to succeed at anything he attempts.
Yeah, I think he can do about anything he wants in the game. He wouldn't be ready to be GM, but maybe someday? I mean, how could someone say no to him?
He's said, though, that his goal is to be a play-by-play announcer. He's probably not ready for that yet either, though he was good in his limited stint. Maybe give him a few more games in '25 with Brown and Block getting some days off?
He’s definitely one who didn’t have the chops to do it. I often wonder how much those guys are brought in to be a figurehead, then try to do the job and find themselves woefully unprepared.
Yep, even though Posey only has a very small amount of ownership, he's still vested. Sometimes that extra motivation helps to make them put people around them that have the skills they lack.
I dunno about done, but on the down slope for sure. Walk and K rates trending in the wrong direction. But he did have a sizable amount of bad luck, and he’s still hitting the ball pretty well when he makes contact.
I don't know how in God's name you can retain Shelton going forward. I'd fire the entire staff and start anew. Unfortunately we have a clown owner and a clueless GM so expecting anything different is a waste of time.
Guardians in the AL with Tigers as my second choice.
In the NL, the Padres because Preller keeps things interesting and I love what he did this year. But mainly I'll be for anyone but the Braves as I'm still traumatized by '92.
But if Ohtani and Judge make the WS, that would be pretty awesome.
AL - please, please no more Astros...fine with all other options there, even the Yankees.
NL - my good friend is a Brewers fan, and I don't hate them like the Braun era teams, so will probably pull for them. I definitely like players from the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves/Mets, but I can't root for them.
I was looking at all 3 NL WC teams where 2 of the 3 get in. Lovello stated he believes the Mets and Braves managers are the type of people who will play the DH today straight up, no tanking. We shall see. I would think each would be happy to sweep their division rival......but it takes a lot of very good pitching.
To expand a bit, one set of grandparents lived in Philly and the other in Baltimore. Obviously due to my Pirates loyalty it’s always hard to root for the Phillies, but I’ll take them over the Mets and/or Braves any day, and I can’t get excited about the rest of the NL field. Baltimore has always been my favorite AL team, except of course when they faced off with the Pirates in the Series.
And really respect the current O’s management for their successful rebuild. A model for our beleaguered franchise to follow.
Nick made a lot of progress after returning in Aug, although there’s always a danger in Sept stats. His BB:K ratio was much better, for one, suggesting he was making better swing decisions.
And Statcast had him above avg in fielding value and well above in baserunning value. If he manages a 100 wRC+, he’s an above avg player.
I would like to see him be the regular second baseman in 2025. No matter who is manager next year, I think it’s time to have defined roles and stop the insane juggling of players across the diamond and in the batting order. Gonzalez is the best option at second and he should be be given 500 at bats at his best position.
Super impressed with his adjustment in approach. While maybe not perfectly optimal, it seems like he definitely became way more aggressive as means of avoiding deep counts that left him susceptible to breaking stuff.
Sacrificed fastball production in order to raise his performance overall.
I think he basically sacrificed power and became something more like the hitter scouts thought he’d be. And without checking splits, I think it made him better in those key ABs that this team seemed so inept at.
Lots of work to do this offseason. Of prime importance is fixing the offense, which ranked 28th by wRC+ with an 86 wRC+. That starts with deciding who is going to make the decisions moving forward in the front office and managers office. I’d imagine there’s a significant chance they move on from Shelton, and by extension Haines, but not Cherington. Assuming that’s correct, it will be interesting to see if they pursue a philosophical shift. I’d be interested in tapping someone from the Orioles. When you look at what the Orioles have been able to do with Santander, a rule 5 pick, a O’Hearn who was on waivers when they traded for him for cash, and Mullins a later round pick, they are clearly doing something right developmentally.
I don’t purport to know. The Athletic over the summer may have offered some clues that their focus on launch angle is yielding results for them. Assuming that’s correct, that would leave open the question of whether they are better at identifying hitters who possess the raw talent to have such a swing, or, is it a skill they are teaching, or maybe even both.
I suspect it's a skill issue, too, with a healthy does of numbers game.
Their focus has been so heavy on bats that they've been able to move on from guys like Hays, absorb injuries to guys like Mateo, and cover for poor performances from Holiday and Jimenez.
If I had to bet, I'd agree with you that Shelton will be gone but Ben remains. But I'm only a little over 50-50 thinking Shelton will be gone because of the lack of accountability that starts at the top.
I agree with the uncertainty because I’m not always sure how Nutting makes these decisions. He’s said so little over the years it’s hard to deduce his decision making process. This is always where the fans potentially matter in the sense of, if they think ticket sales are going to take a hit he *might* be more inclined to make a change? In that regard I’m happy to see major media publications finally turn a critical eye the past couple of months. Even Mackey wrote a critical piece.
I read Mackey's column over breakfast Saturday morning. I was surprised he was finally critical of BN, to say the least. He's usually a very stout defender of BN's "desire to win".
IKF and BDLC were terrible adds to a team that needed some professional hitting help. IKF in his last 30 Games hit 0 HR, 4 RBI in 127 AB, .576 OPS. Overall with the Pirates he struck out 41 times and worked only 3 Walks. We cannot use him if he was costing nothing - instead of the $7.5 mil he is contractually owed for 2025. BDLC was more of the same with 4 Walks and 52 K's. These are obviously players nobody else wanted. Put both on the "To Go" List.
In alphabetical order we have MI's Gonzales, Peguero, Triolo, and Yorke. Peguero is the only true SS, with the others able to play there if needed, but not as a primary position. Triolo is the best of the bunch as a Utility IF who can and has played 3B, SS, 2B, and 1B. His defensive numbers at 2B and 3B are excellent. What happens with Hayes? Gonzales and Triolo both had good years in 2024.
My 2025 would start with Peguero at SS, Hayes at 3B (if healthy), Triolo as the UT IF. Triolo could also play 2B and UT IF if the Pirates choose to want Yorke getting reps at 2B. This will be one of the key decisions that has to be made in the off-season, because we have to unload at least 3 MI's this off-season. Can we swap an MI/P for a power hitting OF with good K/BB rates?
I think the IKF acquisition was okay given that at the time there were concerns about Hayes' health, Gonzales was out, and Triolo had an OPS under .600. In hindsight it was unnecessary given Triolo's improvement.
As for BDLC, while I continue to root for him, it's like the Tellez signing--all they seem to have looked at are the HRs while ignoring overall negative value.
Time to move on from Shelton. Imo, Haines is an easy target for a team lacking some hitting talent. These players use personal hitting coaches....the hitting coach is almost a celebratory position. He may help them gameplan for specific pitchers, but he's not the hitting guru.
My sites are on Shelton. First this team has not been fundamentally sound. Watching them in the field, do they ever practice? I'm not sure that I've ever seen a team throw to the wrong base more often than the Pirates. The ability to bunt is an acquired skill. It takes practice. This team sucked at it. It feels like there is an assumption here: you're in the big leagues, so you just gotta act like a big leaguer. No, you have to teach young players how to be big leaguers, and you sign veterans that help lead your team to be professionals. I love Oneil Cruz. He's not acting like a professional ball player. He needs leadership and he needs to be held accountable.
I could go on, the decision to play Bednar before he was ready, the lack of base stealing prowess, the lineup decisions.....there's a lack of talent, no question, but far too often this team felt like winning wasn't the priority. Day to day, that's on the Manager. Don't get me started on BC.
Was it mere coincidence the turnaround of the Mariners offense when Edgar Martinez took over? I'm not being sarcastic. This is a real question. It seems simply too coincidental as does the real failure of Pirates offense under Haines, particularly the strikeouts and lack of situational hitting.
I wouldn't doubt that Martinez had some impact especially when it comes to situational hitting like handling 2 strike counts, bunting, scouting pitchers.....not absolving Haines. I just think the greater overall impact on the success of the team falls squarely on the shoulders of BC and Shelton.
WRT fundamentals, I'm sure Shelton has learned some lessons but when fundamentals come up I'm always reminded of reporting from Shelton's first ST on how happy the players were because they were getting done with drills so much earlier than had been the case in the past. This seemed like a questionable approach when they were mostly relying on young players.
The whole "my job is to keep things fun" may have established a culture, or perhaps it's irrelevant. Writing this though brings to mind the Mayfield-Brady "controversy"--Shelton is definitely more Mayfield than Brady. Can that work? Maybe. Or did he learn from that? If he learned, can the culture change with the same person in charge or do we need someone new? I'm like you, thinking that we need a fresh start.
Pete Rose died.
Not sure if it was posted, but Chaim Bloom is going to be the Cardinals new POBO after the ‘25 season.
Finished higher than us and have been much better than us yet still are not content with how theyve be going
Sale out with back spasms, need the mets to win game 2 so the snakes make it in
I can’t get interested in anything beyond news of firings.
Started reading a line on Fangraphs about the 121 loss CWS and their owner JR, and go into the comments and people are talking about the Pirates and Bob Nutting. When your team appears in the same conversation as the 121 loss 2024 CWS, maybe it's time to wake up!
Really quiet day across MLB. With team travel and player exit interviews, maybe our cleaning house will be Tuesday.
🤣
Wow, Mets put up 6-spot in 8th inning!! Huge turnaround after Shellenbach shut them down for 7 innings.
Diaz can't hold the lead! Braves back up 7-6!
Lindor goes deep in 9th! Love play-in baseball! A classic game 1.
Typical me--I turned it off in disgust after the Braves retook the lead but didn't tune back in in time to see Lindor's HR. Amazing game, and now it will be really interesting to see what the Mets do for Game 2. Are they tempted to knock out one of their biggest rivals or do they rest guys for tomorrow?
Paul Skenes gets BA's ROY
It was a pleasure, fellas!
Many thanks to Anth and the guys for making a go of it.
San Francisco has a new president of baseball operations, one Buster Posey.
Zaidi is out.
Buster straight to POBO is a wild choice SF
I think he's had a front office position since '22 not sure though. Looked it up, he's been on the BoD since September of 2022.
Oh ok I didnt realize that he had that position, still feels like a huge jump but not as much as retirement to POBO
Different situation, obviously, but Cutch clearly has Nutting's ear and I think Nutting should call Cutch in and get his thoughts on Shelton, Haines, and Kelly. Of course this would all be confidential so we'll never know if it happens. But Cutch has played with enough managers, including some highly regarded managers, to provide valuable insights.
Just a thought I've had and was reminded of when seeing Posey's leadership role with the Giants.
Have him offer his thoughts on BC too please
I actually wouldn't mind Steven Brault getting a position in the front office (not GM or PoBO) or a place on the coaching staff. Brault just seems like a guy that will figure a way to succeed at anything he attempts.
Yeah, I think he can do about anything he wants in the game. He wouldn't be ready to be GM, but maybe someday? I mean, how could someone say no to him?
He's said, though, that his goal is to be a play-by-play announcer. He's probably not ready for that yet either, though he was good in his limited stint. Maybe give him a few more games in '25 with Brown and Block getting some days off?
Give Brown and Block a lot of days off.
Wow!
I’ll be interested to see how he does. All-star players don’t always have the skills to be an executive.
Yeah Jeets!
He’s definitely one who didn’t have the chops to do it. I often wonder how much those guys are brought in to be a figurehead, then try to do the job and find themselves woefully unprepared.
Yep, even though Posey only has a very small amount of ownership, he's still vested. Sometimes that extra motivation helps to make them put people around them that have the skills they lack.
Lots of rumblings out of St. Louis that they’re going to cut payroll letting Goldy walk and shopping Gray.
Goldy makes sense, wonder if he is washed or a buy low candidate?
His 2024 stat line would suggest he’s done.
Perfect pickup for GMBC. Right in his wheelhouse.
I dunno about done, but on the down slope for sure. Walk and K rates trending in the wrong direction. But he did have a sizable amount of bad luck, and he’s still hitting the ball pretty well when he makes contact.
Contact quality, bat speed, swing percentages are probably a better indicator than his numbers this year
I don't know how in God's name you can retain Shelton going forward. I'd fire the entire staff and start anew. Unfortunately we have a clown owner and a clueless GM so expecting anything different is a waste of time.
It's high tide for backseat driving into the off-season!!
Ok hot takes lets hear em
Set for this weekend :)
what time is the press conference to announce they fired shelton?
2pm
Who are yinz all supporting in the postseason? I was hoping to hop on the snakes bandwagon, if they make it in
None of them
I'm hope it's a Milwaukee v Kansas City WS. The other WS match-up I'd like to see is a San Diego victory over the Yankees in the Soto series lol
Guardians in the AL with Tigers as my second choice.
In the NL, the Padres because Preller keeps things interesting and I love what he did this year. But mainly I'll be for anyone but the Braves as I'm still traumatized by '92.
But if Ohtani and Judge make the WS, that would be pretty awesome.
Pride of Grayson, GA, Parker Meadows, and his Tigers are my team. Got a good shot with their rotation and youthful exuberance.
AL - please, please no more Astros...fine with all other options there, even the Yankees.
NL - my good friend is a Brewers fan, and I don't hate them like the Braun era teams, so will probably pull for them. I definitely like players from the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves/Mets, but I can't root for them.
Until the cheaters are all gone from the Astros, they're the last team I want to see win. I think that's only Altuve and Bregman.
Main wildcard series I’m focusing on it’s the Os/Royals.
Henderson vs Witt
Pretty sizeable homefield advantage for the O's in that matchup on paper; Witt's OPS is nearly 300 points better at home!
That’s wild. Does Kaufmann normally play that way for hitters? My recollection of that park was it was always on the pitcher friendly side.
The more conspiratorial among us have suggested home field advantage in manners beyond park effects.
Them trash cans…
I was looking at all 3 NL WC teams where 2 of the 3 get in. Lovello stated he believes the Mets and Braves managers are the type of people who will play the DH today straight up, no tanking. We shall see. I would think each would be happy to sweep their division rival......but it takes a lot of very good pitching.
And I like all 3 teams lineups, and pitching staffs. I'll probably lean Phillies.....just like that club all the way around.
Due to past affiliations based on geography I’m rooting for a Phillies-Orioles World Series.
To expand a bit, one set of grandparents lived in Philly and the other in Baltimore. Obviously due to my Pirates loyalty it’s always hard to root for the Phillies, but I’ll take them over the Mets and/or Braves any day, and I can’t get excited about the rest of the NL field. Baltimore has always been my favorite AL team, except of course when they faced off with the Pirates in the Series.
And really respect the current O’s management for their successful rebuild. A model for our beleaguered franchise to follow.
perfect time to look back on some preseason predictions (from the Opening Day Morning Rundown)
Opening Day Prediction Time!
- 79 - 83, "The year before 'The Year'"
- 3 wins shy, ‘25 is still “The Year”
- This is Hayes from now on. Key breaks out with 6+ WAR, another GG & down ballot MVP votes.
- WRONG, desperately need Hayes to get healthy and at least get back to his typical 4 WAR self
- 3 players hit 30+ HR (most likely: Suwinski, Cruz, Reynolds, Rowdy, Davis)
- WRONG, my list had: 9, 21, 24, 13 & 1.
- Skenes comes up around the All-Star Break. 4+ ERA, lots of strikeouts & flashes of dominance
- WRONG, but in a good way :)
- Jones does well, but struggles just enough to justify some mid season "workload management" aka service time manipulation
- Wrong again, good season for Jones & he got a full year of ST.
- Davis proves he can handle C, not so much for Cruz at SS - he leads the league in throwing errors, no thanks to Rowdy
- Davis can play C, just can’t hit. Cruz was 2nd in errors & moved to CF. Not the one I wanted to get right.
- One of the 2B cluster separates himself from the pack (I'm still betting on Peggy)
- Nick G was the best of the bunch, but I’m not sure a 96 OPS+ is what we were hoping for.
- Lonnie White Jr. finally plays a full season & is the minor league POY
- LOL, the buccos have exactly 0 hitting prospects worth a damn
Pretty damn good hit rate on those takes!
I nailed the 76 win total.......should be worth a one year subscription ;)
Nick made a lot of progress after returning in Aug, although there’s always a danger in Sept stats. His BB:K ratio was much better, for one, suggesting he was making better swing decisions.
And Statcast had him above avg in fielding value and well above in baserunning value. If he manages a 100 wRC+, he’s an above avg player.
I would like to see him be the regular second baseman in 2025. No matter who is manager next year, I think it’s time to have defined roles and stop the insane juggling of players across the diamond and in the batting order. Gonzalez is the best option at second and he should be be given 500 at bats at his best position.
Radical!!
Super impressed with his adjustment in approach. While maybe not perfectly optimal, it seems like he definitely became way more aggressive as means of avoiding deep counts that left him susceptible to breaking stuff.
Sacrificed fastball production in order to raise his performance overall.
I think he basically sacrificed power and became something more like the hitter scouts thought he’d be. And without checking splits, I think it made him better in those key ABs that this team seemed so inept at.
Also started going the other way more like when he first got called up this year. He was extremely pull happy before his injury.
Lots of work to do this offseason. Of prime importance is fixing the offense, which ranked 28th by wRC+ with an 86 wRC+. That starts with deciding who is going to make the decisions moving forward in the front office and managers office. I’d imagine there’s a significant chance they move on from Shelton, and by extension Haines, but not Cherington. Assuming that’s correct, it will be interesting to see if they pursue a philosophical shift. I’d be interested in tapping someone from the Orioles. When you look at what the Orioles have been able to do with Santander, a rule 5 pick, a O’Hearn who was on waivers when they traded for him for cash, and Mullins a later round pick, they are clearly doing something right developmentally.
The success with Santander is especially remarkable.
What is the O's "philosophy"?
I don’t purport to know. The Athletic over the summer may have offered some clues that their focus on launch angle is yielding results for them. Assuming that’s correct, that would leave open the question of whether they are better at identifying hitters who possess the raw talent to have such a swing, or, is it a skill they are teaching, or maybe even both.
I suspect it's a skill issue, too, with a healthy does of numbers game.
Their focus has been so heavy on bats that they've been able to move on from guys like Hays, absorb injuries to guys like Mateo, and cover for poor performances from Holiday and Jimenez.
If I had to bet, I'd agree with you that Shelton will be gone but Ben remains. But I'm only a little over 50-50 thinking Shelton will be gone because of the lack of accountability that starts at the top.
I agree with the uncertainty because I’m not always sure how Nutting makes these decisions. He’s said so little over the years it’s hard to deduce his decision making process. This is always where the fans potentially matter in the sense of, if they think ticket sales are going to take a hit he *might* be more inclined to make a change? In that regard I’m happy to see major media publications finally turn a critical eye the past couple of months. Even Mackey wrote a critical piece.
I read Mackey's column over breakfast Saturday morning. I was surprised he was finally critical of BN, to say the least. He's usually a very stout defender of BN's "desire to win".
Mackey permanently lost me when he raved about the additions of VanMeter, Marisnick and Knapp.
I get the media has a hard job, but there’s been red flags now for a couple of years now and I feel like guys like him have been ignoring them.
IKF and BDLC were terrible adds to a team that needed some professional hitting help. IKF in his last 30 Games hit 0 HR, 4 RBI in 127 AB, .576 OPS. Overall with the Pirates he struck out 41 times and worked only 3 Walks. We cannot use him if he was costing nothing - instead of the $7.5 mil he is contractually owed for 2025. BDLC was more of the same with 4 Walks and 52 K's. These are obviously players nobody else wanted. Put both on the "To Go" List.
In alphabetical order we have MI's Gonzales, Peguero, Triolo, and Yorke. Peguero is the only true SS, with the others able to play there if needed, but not as a primary position. Triolo is the best of the bunch as a Utility IF who can and has played 3B, SS, 2B, and 1B. His defensive numbers at 2B and 3B are excellent. What happens with Hayes? Gonzales and Triolo both had good years in 2024.
My 2025 would start with Peguero at SS, Hayes at 3B (if healthy), Triolo as the UT IF. Triolo could also play 2B and UT IF if the Pirates choose to want Yorke getting reps at 2B. This will be one of the key decisions that has to be made in the off-season, because we have to unload at least 3 MI's this off-season. Can we swap an MI/P for a power hitting OF with good K/BB rates?
I think the IKF acquisition was okay given that at the time there were concerns about Hayes' health, Gonzales was out, and Triolo had an OPS under .600. In hindsight it was unnecessary given Triolo's improvement.
As for BDLC, while I continue to root for him, it's like the Tellez signing--all they seem to have looked at are the HRs while ignoring overall negative value.
Time to move on from Shelton. Imo, Haines is an easy target for a team lacking some hitting talent. These players use personal hitting coaches....the hitting coach is almost a celebratory position. He may help them gameplan for specific pitchers, but he's not the hitting guru.
My sites are on Shelton. First this team has not been fundamentally sound. Watching them in the field, do they ever practice? I'm not sure that I've ever seen a team throw to the wrong base more often than the Pirates. The ability to bunt is an acquired skill. It takes practice. This team sucked at it. It feels like there is an assumption here: you're in the big leagues, so you just gotta act like a big leaguer. No, you have to teach young players how to be big leaguers, and you sign veterans that help lead your team to be professionals. I love Oneil Cruz. He's not acting like a professional ball player. He needs leadership and he needs to be held accountable.
I could go on, the decision to play Bednar before he was ready, the lack of base stealing prowess, the lineup decisions.....there's a lack of talent, no question, but far too often this team felt like winning wasn't the priority. Day to day, that's on the Manager. Don't get me started on BC.
Good summary. On the things you mention I am convinced that managers do matter, as hard as it is to quantify.
Thank you!
Was it mere coincidence the turnaround of the Mariners offense when Edgar Martinez took over? I'm not being sarcastic. This is a real question. It seems simply too coincidental as does the real failure of Pirates offense under Haines, particularly the strikeouts and lack of situational hitting.
I wouldn't doubt that Martinez had some impact especially when it comes to situational hitting like handling 2 strike counts, bunting, scouting pitchers.....not absolving Haines. I just think the greater overall impact on the success of the team falls squarely on the shoulders of BC and Shelton.
WRT fundamentals, I'm sure Shelton has learned some lessons but when fundamentals come up I'm always reminded of reporting from Shelton's first ST on how happy the players were because they were getting done with drills so much earlier than had been the case in the past. This seemed like a questionable approach when they were mostly relying on young players.
The whole "my job is to keep things fun" may have established a culture, or perhaps it's irrelevant. Writing this though brings to mind the Mayfield-Brady "controversy"--Shelton is definitely more Mayfield than Brady. Can that work? Maybe. Or did he learn from that? If he learned, can the culture change with the same person in charge or do we need someone new? I'm like you, thinking that we need a fresh start.