Late to the party, but I'll vent. I don't care if this guy had issues associated with substance abuse. He's not been good - that's a problem. Pardon me if I'm totally ignorant about baseball economics, but this owner and FO is just cheap. Why not spend some money to sign a legit starting pitcher? Someone better than Rich Hill, not a player in decline. Pay the money and if the season isn't going well or the young guns are panning out, trade him for prospects. Do something. At this point of a rebuild, try to win. Same thing at catcher. Pay more and sign a FA that can hit. They keep playing games with statements that Hank will be catching. It's not happening! Put him in the outfield, first base, DH. I understood when they were trying to lose, but now they're just fucking around. There should be a treasure chest full of doubloons given how little they've spent on payroll the last several years. Shit's gotten old.
Excellent content at FG on the 2017 prospect lists...here's a blurb from Glasnow
" I’m not going to sit here and say the Pirates won the Chris Archer trade, but if part of the reason they parted with Glasnow, Shane Baz, and Austin Meadows was because they feared all three would have trouble staying healthy and productive, they were right about that part."
I've only skimmed that article, but if anyone thinks we can just sit back and wait for Skenes, Chandler, Solo, Harrington, Johnson, etc. to arrive and then everything will be good, the success rate of the 2017 list should be pretty eye-opening (I doubt anyone that posts here thinks that, but I still was a little surprised at how many of the top prospects washed out).
It wasn’t. Logic had nothing to do with that trade. Nutting had a brain fart that told him to go after Archer to prove to people he’d do such things and NH had to do it the way he did. They’d like to sell it as “we knew all along” but that’s pure BS.
I am all for adding starting pitching, but not with histories like German and Bauer. I would rather take my chances with, in no particular order, Keller, Gonzales, Priester, Contreras, Ortiz, Falter and Perez. That's seven through May. Into June/July we pickup Skenes, Jared Jones, Burrows and Ashcraft. They won't all work and I have my doubts on several of them. But would rather attempt than bring what I perceive as cancers to a young clubhouse.
It’s really unfair to lump German and Bauer together. Bauer’s had personality and behavior problems for many years and is most likely beyond rehabilitation, but if reports are accurate (and I’ve not looked into it enough to know all the details) German’s problems have all been secondary to an alcohol addiction problem. That’s an actual physical illness, whether you chose to believe it or not, and with treatment can and will cease to cause problems. The big question has to be whether he’s accepted his problem and really addressed it appropriately. If he’s no longer drinking and continues to work on his problem, there’s no reason he shouldn’t get another chance.
I’m not advocating for Trevor Bauer, but since they’re seemingly not shying away from players with DV incidents on their resume, how is he essentially off limits while players like German are still garnering interest?
Bauer has a couple of outstanding civil cases, for one thing. FWIW he also left a long trail of sinister and kinda disturbing text messages with some of these women. Don’t know if that plays a part in his apparent radioactivity but it would create a challenge for a club’s PR dept.
I know that Im very likely in the minority here, but Im out on players with DV history. Would rather be bad than employee these jagoffs, playing baseball is a privilege not an innate right
IMO, he would be an upgrade from Ortiz, Priester, Ro and Falter.
Perusing through these comments and you're the only one that's pounding the political drum. Bauer is an opinionated, far left loud mouth. Certainly not a fan of that, but if he helps the Buccos win games, who effing cares.
lol, is that a freudian slip? far left? Trevor Bauer is just short of Aubrey Huff and Curt Shilling.
And your last line is precisely my point.
All this talk about German being "rehabilitated" and not one mention of the fact that he's never come close to holding down a rotation slot since 2019. Seems important!
Yes, the key is whether he's rehabilitated. That's impossible for us to judge, but in general I believe in second chances accompanied by a zero tolerance policy for repeat behavior. Since the incidents are relatively recent, he is someone who we shouldn't commit more than a year to, though a team option for a second year is never a bad idea if you can get it.
German is definitely a better option than Thor, but likely even a step back from Marco and Martin. Not exactly the splash signing Pirates need to increase their odds of winning the division.
Anybody else feel like they’re Charlie Brown and BN is Lucy pulling the football away every off-season? For some inexplicable reason I keep expecting this time it will be different. Defies logical explanation.
Thor’s career arc to date (unless there was a lot more length and substance than I am remembering) is what gives GMs of any club without a bottomless bucket of money nightmares when it comes to handing out massive extensions to a young in-house pitcher. (Applies similarly to FA deals, but at least in those cases there is a bit more track record of durability (or lack thereof), sustained success, and ability to adapt).
In a way, Mets being Mets and all, it’s kind of surprising that them signing Thor to a huge deal right before his arm and body started falling apart *didn’t* happen.
Given his ability to strike out batters, I think German has as much upside as Marco or Martin, but most importantly it gives us one more option for when things go wrong. But I'm with you, I keep going into the offseasons optimistic and even more so this year with Cherington's and Shelton's acknowledgement that they needed to do better and needed to strengthen the rotation. Are Marco and Martin any better than Hill and VV? Are we going into '24 better off than '23?
Kliesen, Scott; agreeing on this point. I think there's history of players coming from the Yankees to a town where they can actually live and be left alone and maybe actually appriciated. There's value in that.
He was 21/26 last year in 447 AB, 115 of which were against LHP's. I think he only got about 5/2 against LHP's, but if we are giving almost all of the AB's against LHP's to others, I'm thinking he gets only maybe 380 AB max in 2024. If he hits 30 HR that's one for every 12.67 AB? Getting close to Bonds country?
If we sign MAT or another RH CF then I would agree, but with the roster construction right now it would seem like he's probably out there most everyday
Random and unrelated…. Just read in a scheduling article on the Athletic that the Bucs have the least travel miles in MLB this upcoming season. (Cut to backscene of Bob using his pull at MLB HQ to tweak their schedule algorithms to save on his charter bills 😋)
In reality though, the optimist in me will add ‘less travel and jet lag’ to my list of sneaky, under the radar factors and angles that will contribute to the Bucs’ shocking level of success this season. 👍
The way pitchers go down with injuries, I don't think we need to choose between Roansy and German. I also think the Pirates are trending in a direction where you will see less innings by starters and more long inning relievers to piggy back. I have no facts to prove that, just a hunch.
With you on this one, Stats. Bucs are clearly going to cover a possibly league record of innings this year in piggy-back or "bullpen" type games. We've got mostly fungible starters who can probably get through the lineup once or twice. We've got a pretty good bullpen. And we have a good baker's dozen of prospects ready to come up and give the wheel a spin. I see movement up and down all season in the pitching ranks.
I also think in the next year or so when guys like Brubaker, Burrows and Oviedo come back, their outings may be limited. Also, when guys like Jones, Chandler and Wolf getting called up, their outings might be limited as well. I like the thought of the future Pirates having at least 8 guys on the roster that can go 3 innings plus.
If you do a composite of the projection systems on FG it’s around 1 WAR, albeit with the ZIPS being an outlier. So why not? They aren’t likely to sign anyone substantially better than that anyways. It’s not like they’ll be hurting for depth come June/July.
Could be a rough familial situation, and a totally different circumstance involving adults, but for a franchise less than 5 years out from the arrest and subsequent imprisonment of the guy who used to close games for the Pirates, even expressing interest is just plain stupid.
I mean, when did we start being the morality police?
Chapman-chocking girlfriend and firing 8 gunshots (yes in 2015). Also selfish jerk and bad teammate, just not as vocal as Bauer but I'd say a worse human being
Bae - chocked and kicked his gf bruising her in 2017 NYE, with that gf requiring prescriptions to recover from the lingering trauma
We are looking at German who did similar things with Bae (I'm guessing who was drunk due to NYE) and is a chronic alcoholic, vs taking a flier on Bauer who said he would sign for league min. / incentive laden contract.
Honestly, sign them both. They aren't my heros (well, Cutch is Cutch) and will help us win more baseball games. Keep them out of the media.
Bauer’s been contrite, especially for him, since he got back from Japan. He’s apologized for oversights in his personal life like rough sex with strangers and for being an asshole in the media.
To support that, it sounds like he sought out treatment on his own initiative last summer. Perhaps the team forced him to, but that's not the way the write-up made it sound. Anyway, best to give people a second chance if they're truly remorseful and that takes judgement of those in our FO who meet with the player. Maybe we can have a little more confidence in our judgement with someone like Gelles on board?
TNBucs - I'm starting to think the Union is not backing Bauer getting signed. I haven't read anything about the Union getting his back, fighting his suspension etc. Gerrit Cole has been a Union rep for years and hates Bauer's guts.
Yes, this seems logical. If the Union had his back, it's hard to imagine that some team wouldn't have given him an opportunity by now. I wonder who his agent is--I'd think a top agent would have the leverage to find him a landing spot.
He was showing up to games drunk. He flew into a drunken rage in the Yankees clubhouse. But he is cheap and willing to sign a one-year deal, so that makes him perfect for the Cherington-Nutting show.
Maybe a drunk German is better than some of the guys they have now when they are sober. This off-season has really become a joke. Next we will hear that the Pirates are showing interest in Latin sensation Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman as their next closer.
From a twitter post: "Domingo Germán had arguments with Aaron Boone and teammates during Tuesday’s incident. He flipped a couch, smashed a TV and made jokes while teammate Ron Marinaccio packed his bags for Triple-A. They made him go in a sauna to try and sweat out the alcohol" - Talkin' Yanks
Does that work? Like drinking a bottle of whiskey, feeling like you may puke, then eating some bread to "soak up the alcohol". It's in your system. Guess the whiskey sponge bread in your stomach gives you something to ralph.
Rowdy Tellez is a "hope" for the Pirates. In 2022 he hit a HR for every 15.1 AB which fell to a HR every 23.9 AB in 2023 - reason for why the Pirates got him for $3.2 mil or $1.8 mil less than he was paid in 2023. He does have incentives in his contract amounting to $800K, and we are all rooting that he gets that $800K.
Where do his HR/AB numbers put him on the Pirates? Suwinski led the Bucs in '23 with a HR for every 17.2 AB; second was Reynolds a HR for every 23.9 AB, so in his "terrible" 2023 season, Tellez would have tied for second best HR rate per AB for the Pirates! He also has decent K/BB numbers - 1.95 in 2022 and 2.45 in 2023.
Looking for Oneil Cruz to at least match his 2022 HR/AB of one for every 19.4 AB, and Liover Peguero to match or do better than his 2023 HR/AB of one for every 28.3 AB. Josh Palacios was VG at one HR for every 24.7 AB.
What I was upset with about the Tellez signing was that there were several first basemen to choose from and there still are. They quick grabbed Tellez like he was the last cookie on the plate. I hope he does well because I think he will be an easy guy to like.
I've never hated a player in the mlb more. That was my main issue with the signing. That and his 35hrs and 60 walks led to a .767ops and 0.8war. So the upside is low
Idk Mel, Tellez is kind of a Statcast “darling”. There is a reason why the Fangraphs piece is like the second or third article written about him this off-season…the nerds and data really like the bat. When healthy, his Statcast percentile rankings are a sea of red. He hits the ball really hard, and the breathe of data suggests that last year was just an anomaly. The nerd in me loves this signing. I don’t want to give this FO too much credit, but I think there were multiple reasons, other than money, they targeted him.
I would like the signing more if he would not be such a liabilty at 1b or if they had signed Santana to play 1b. For this team to win, they need to play excellent defense to backup the bad starting pitching.....they need a true centerfielder also.
I agree that they need to play excellent defense. Simple solution is to sign MAT to play or platoon in CF, then let Triolo take over 1B. You already have a plus defender in your back pocket, so there was never any real need to go after Santana. Especially when his Statcast numbers fell of a cliff last year. CS had a great career, but I think Father Time has caught up with him.
The biggest need defensively at 1B is someone to catch Cruz missiles. At 6'4 with a superb fld% I think Tellez can do that. Having the worst range in the league is bad though
Against only RHP's, his HR/AB drops to 22.04 in 2023. He is definitely a 4 month hire because if he does not get traded between the AS Break and Aug 1, we have a scoop! We need for him to pop about 15-18 HR by mid-July, and he will bring back a very decent return.
They've been collecting these guys the entire Cherington Era!
This ridiculous narrative about Andy Haines making everyone swing less is belied by the fact that they dudes they're targeting *already* bring patience with them.
Hyun Jin Ryu - please! The Pirates gamble on Tellez, and the the soft throwing lefties. Ryu has a history that puts these players to shame. We spend bits here and there. Put it all together and maybe we could have signed Montgomery which would improve the team more than all those signed. The only decent player we signed was Chapman.
Yes, with Montgomery they had (have, if I'm dreaming) the chance to upgrade a position by, say, ~3 wins but instead they'd rather spread around much smaller amounts hoping to get a half win here and a half win there that might add up to 3. At least that's the impression I have. I know they're smart enough to fully grasp the value of consolidating increased WAR in individual players, but of course that comes with more risk.
It's also possible that a player like Montgomery won't be interested until this FO and coaching staff proves they can produce a winner.
I think that Cherington has refused to give out multi-year deals to free agents, which limits him to this endless stream of marginal "bounce-back" cluttering up the 40-man 2 years in a row. The reason, in my opinion, that he keeps doing one-offs and bounce-backs instead of signing quality free-agents is because he wants to save money and not have it tied up to deal with whatever holes appear next year, since there are so many question marks in the development of his prospects. This is just bad for several reasons. 1) This is not some bridge year at 1B or OF. There is no one rising up to claim CF or 1B next year. Trade or sign an established player on a multi-year deal. 2) All these pitching prospects are not going to pan out and pitchers get injured all the time. There will always be room for a quality starting pitcher on the team no matter how it goes with the prospects... so sign one and work the prospects (who have options) around the deal.
That’s inexcusable from a pitching standpoint though. Teams always need innings. You’re never going to regret signing a decent SP to a reasonable deal.
See I think pitchers on short deals are the absolute best value you can get right now. Just look at what the Rays do to succeed. Efflin at 3 years is the longest deal they ever gave.
I agree I wouldn’t go longer than 3, unless it’s some unique situation. My point was referencing that they don’t even seem willing to go to 2 years let alone 3, on anything close to market value. They should be players on anyone 3 and under at any reasonable deal. I’d be talking to Snell and Montgomery right now seeing if they’d want a pillow deal. Some of the guys who have already signed, I’d have tacked an extra year for 2 or 3 years, or gone with a higher AAV.
It’s just the cost of doing business nowadays and one that we aren’t willing to incur. The days of finding a Frankie Liriano on the cheap are long gone. There’s too many well run FO’s that are wise to that sort of thing. They are self limited into guys that are extreme injury risks or guys with super low ceilings.
Yes, refusing to give out multi-year deals to free agents is like we're trying to win a fight with one hand tied behind our back. He'd rather avoid risk than give the players we have the help they need to actually win. But the risk avoidance is surely a major reason Nutting recently said that Ben is doing a "fantastic" job.
Mackey says tomorrow (Wednesday) is D-Day:
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2024/02/13/pirates-trade-starting-pitching-edward-cabrera-german-syndergaard-roster-chering/stories/202402130102
Sign Bauer already….rumor is he will sign for league minimum. Very small investment. If he proves to be a distraction, cut him, bfd.
Sign Skenes to an extension and start him in the majors. Let’s quit being a bunch of pussies.
Late to the party, but I'll vent. I don't care if this guy had issues associated with substance abuse. He's not been good - that's a problem. Pardon me if I'm totally ignorant about baseball economics, but this owner and FO is just cheap. Why not spend some money to sign a legit starting pitcher? Someone better than Rich Hill, not a player in decline. Pay the money and if the season isn't going well or the young guns are panning out, trade him for prospects. Do something. At this point of a rebuild, try to win. Same thing at catcher. Pay more and sign a FA that can hit. They keep playing games with statements that Hank will be catching. It's not happening! Put him in the outfield, first base, DH. I understood when they were trying to lose, but now they're just fucking around. There should be a treasure chest full of doubloons given how little they've spent on payroll the last several years. Shit's gotten old.
Excellent content at FG on the 2017 prospect lists...here's a blurb from Glasnow
" I’m not going to sit here and say the Pirates won the Chris Archer trade, but if part of the reason they parted with Glasnow, Shane Baz, and Austin Meadows was because they feared all three would have trouble staying healthy and productive, they were right about that part."
Prospect lists from five years on should certainly be sobering to the “play the kidz” crowd here. Right? Right?!
I've only skimmed that article, but if anyone thinks we can just sit back and wait for Skenes, Chandler, Solo, Harrington, Johnson, etc. to arrive and then everything will be good, the success rate of the 2017 list should be pretty eye-opening (I doubt anyone that posts here thinks that, but I still was a little surprised at how many of the top prospects washed out).
It wasn’t. Logic had nothing to do with that trade. Nutting had a brain fart that told him to go after Archer to prove to people he’d do such things and NH had to do it the way he did. They’d like to sell it as “we knew all along” but that’s pure BS.
Such bizarre speculative support given who they used those players to acquire.
A club concerned about prospect injury and performance...acquires an older guy clearly in his decline?
Sure, Eric, makes sense.
I am all for adding starting pitching, but not with histories like German and Bauer. I would rather take my chances with, in no particular order, Keller, Gonzales, Priester, Contreras, Ortiz, Falter and Perez. That's seven through May. Into June/July we pickup Skenes, Jared Jones, Burrows and Ashcraft. They won't all work and I have my doubts on several of them. But would rather attempt than bring what I perceive as cancers to a young clubhouse.
It’s really unfair to lump German and Bauer together. Bauer’s had personality and behavior problems for many years and is most likely beyond rehabilitation, but if reports are accurate (and I’ve not looked into it enough to know all the details) German’s problems have all been secondary to an alcohol addiction problem. That’s an actual physical illness, whether you chose to believe it or not, and with treatment can and will cease to cause problems. The big question has to be whether he’s accepted his problem and really addressed it appropriately. If he’s no longer drinking and continues to work on his problem, there’s no reason he shouldn’t get another chance.
Agreed. Bauer is an asshole who I have no interest in. I am open to believing German deserves another shot.
I’m not advocating for Trevor Bauer, but since they’re seemingly not shying away from players with DV incidents on their resume, how is he essentially off limits while players like German are still garnering interest?
Bauer has a couple of outstanding civil cases, for one thing. FWIW he also left a long trail of sinister and kinda disturbing text messages with some of these women. Don’t know if that plays a part in his apparent radioactivity but it would create a challenge for a club’s PR dept.
My understanding is there is a significant difference between Bauer's behavior and German's.
You're right, one of them is politically outspoken and the other nobody has ever heard of.
I have no idea about Trevor Bauer's political outspokeness. I was referencing the multiple PFAs, allegations of sexual assault, and on field behavior.
Spineless HR Guy and Spineless GM unwilling to risk perceived publicity issues for Spineless Owner who'll fire them both as scapegoats.
I know that Im very likely in the minority here, but Im out on players with DV history. Would rather be bad than employee these jagoffs, playing baseball is a privilege not an innate right
Not in the minority with me. While I feel everyone should have a second chance, not interested when there are many other options.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/baseball/shocking-reports-domingo-german-s-drunken-behavior-clubhouse-comes-light-pitcher-s-rehab-assignement
Aurora's claim is accurate. As long as he's rehabilitated, I would bring him aboard.
Can we not discuss the part about him sucking at baseball?
Or should we just focus on culture war bullshit for all our acquisitions.
IMO, he would be an upgrade from Ortiz, Priester, Ro and Falter.
Perusing through these comments and you're the only one that's pounding the political drum. Bauer is an opinionated, far left loud mouth. Certainly not a fan of that, but if he helps the Buccos win games, who effing cares.
lol, is that a freudian slip? far left? Trevor Bauer is just short of Aubrey Huff and Curt Shilling.
And your last line is precisely my point.
All this talk about German being "rehabilitated" and not one mention of the fact that he's never come close to holding down a rotation slot since 2019. Seems important!
Oh shit, yeah, he's an opinionated far right loudmouth.
Yes, the key is whether he's rehabilitated. That's impossible for us to judge, but in general I believe in second chances accompanied by a zero tolerance policy for repeat behavior. Since the incidents are relatively recent, he is someone who we shouldn't commit more than a year to, though a team option for a second year is never a bad idea if you can get it.
It's more of the Pirates quickly moved in and added the slugger to stand at first base for them, lol.
German is definitely a better option than Thor, but likely even a step back from Marco and Martin. Not exactly the splash signing Pirates need to increase their odds of winning the division.
Anybody else feel like they’re Charlie Brown and BN is Lucy pulling the football away every off-season? For some inexplicable reason I keep expecting this time it will be different. Defies logical explanation.
Every Pirates off-season reminds me of the opening scenes from “Major League.”
Sad but true.
You get my vote for best comment of the day.
“This guy is dead.”
“Well, cross him off, then.”
Thor’s career arc to date (unless there was a lot more length and substance than I am remembering) is what gives GMs of any club without a bottomless bucket of money nightmares when it comes to handing out massive extensions to a young in-house pitcher. (Applies similarly to FA deals, but at least in those cases there is a bit more track record of durability (or lack thereof), sustained success, and ability to adapt).
In a way, Mets being Mets and all, it’s kind of surprising that them signing Thor to a huge deal right before his arm and body started falling apart *didn’t* happen.
Given his ability to strike out batters, I think German has as much upside as Marco or Martin, but most importantly it gives us one more option for when things go wrong. But I'm with you, I keep going into the offseasons optimistic and even more so this year with Cherington's and Shelton's acknowledgement that they needed to do better and needed to strengthen the rotation. Are Marco and Martin any better than Hill and VV? Are we going into '24 better off than '23?
I believe the technical term is hopium but it could also be copium depending on the day
I disagree. From a pure baseball standpoint, German would be the best starter they added this offseason.
Maybe getting out of that bandbox and the worst media market in MLB will do wonders for him. I can at least see a way that you’re right and I’m wrong.
Kliesen, Scott; agreeing on this point. I think there's history of players coming from the Yankees to a town where they can actually live and be left alone and maybe actually appriciated. There's value in that.
"Gee. How Nature Boy-ey can ya get?"
-Wabbit
Definitely. Whip machine but gives up tons of bombs
51 homers at Yankee stadium is a concern. 43 homers on the road in 266 innings on the road might be a bigger concern for me.
AdminSky's random prediction of the day, jack will go 30/30 this year and not be the most impressive offensive stat line on the team
Likey
He was 21/26 last year in 447 AB, 115 of which were against LHP's. I think he only got about 5/2 against LHP's, but if we are giving almost all of the AB's against LHP's to others, I'm thinking he gets only maybe 380 AB max in 2024. If he hits 30 HR that's one for every 12.67 AB? Getting close to Bonds country?
If we sign MAT or another RH CF then I would agree, but with the roster construction right now it would seem like he's probably out there most everyday
Bold…very F’ing bold!
What S.Kliesen said!
Random and unrelated…. Just read in a scheduling article on the Athletic that the Bucs have the least travel miles in MLB this upcoming season. (Cut to backscene of Bob using his pull at MLB HQ to tweak their schedule algorithms to save on his charter bills 😋)
In reality though, the optimist in me will add ‘less travel and jet lag’ to my list of sneaky, under the radar factors and angles that will contribute to the Bucs’ shocking level of success this season. 👍
Im in!
I'm against German. I'd rather not root for guys who don't deserve it. I'd rather start Roansy and Ortiz out of spring training.
The way pitchers go down with injuries, I don't think we need to choose between Roansy and German. I also think the Pirates are trending in a direction where you will see less innings by starters and more long inning relievers to piggy back. I have no facts to prove that, just a hunch.
With you on this one, Stats. Bucs are clearly going to cover a possibly league record of innings this year in piggy-back or "bullpen" type games. We've got mostly fungible starters who can probably get through the lineup once or twice. We've got a pretty good bullpen. And we have a good baker's dozen of prospects ready to come up and give the wheel a spin. I see movement up and down all season in the pitching ranks.
"Well-a-unga-bunga-bunga-inga-binga-binga-BUNGAAAAA!"
-Wabbit
I also think in the next year or so when guys like Brubaker, Burrows and Oviedo come back, their outings may be limited. Also, when guys like Jones, Chandler and Wolf getting called up, their outings might be limited as well. I like the thought of the future Pirates having at least 8 guys on the roster that can go 3 innings plus.
Since BC hasn’t bothered to find a rotation, they might as well go with Roansy. He’s out of options.
Keller and Ro and pray for snow.
At this point, After Mitch it’s all a bitch.
Just Quinn, baby.
If you do a composite of the projection systems on FG it’s around 1 WAR, albeit with the ZIPS being an outlier. So why not? They aren’t likely to sign anyone substantially better than that anyways. It’s not like they’ll be hurting for depth come June/July.
Wonder if hes going to drop a few more mph this year or if he can find his 2022 velo again? Seems like that could be a fairly large deciding factor
Gotta wonder where this FO draws the line on moral turpitude…
Guys who have the wrong politics, clearly.
I would say the Bucs and just about every other MLB are a decent amount lower tha. The line set by one Beulah Balbricker.
Could be a rough familial situation, and a totally different circumstance involving adults, but for a franchise less than 5 years out from the arrest and subsequent imprisonment of the guy who used to close games for the Pirates, even expressing interest is just plain stupid.
Learned a new word today and I thank you for that. You can try to guess which one. Hint: it's not moral.
I don’t know whether it makes any sense, but somehow the line, “The Pirates have been mired in turpitude for over 30 years,” just resonates.
Either that or “stupitude.”
Both work for me. It doesn't even have to make sense. The Bucs rarely do.
Is it wonder?
I'm stumped.
Strike one. I wonder about the FO all the time. There's another hint.
Turpitude?
Is strike one a reference of transgressions?
Boom goes downtown Pittsburgh.
I'd like to say yes but I have to give you credit for putting that fine pun into existence.
Guy got drunk and slapped his wife. When he sobered up was embarrassed, ashamed to confront teammates etc.
Bauer has been a pompous jerk since college.
Apples and oranges.
I mean, when did we start being the morality police?
Chapman-chocking girlfriend and firing 8 gunshots (yes in 2015). Also selfish jerk and bad teammate, just not as vocal as Bauer but I'd say a worse human being
Bae - chocked and kicked his gf bruising her in 2017 NYE, with that gf requiring prescriptions to recover from the lingering trauma
We are looking at German who did similar things with Bae (I'm guessing who was drunk due to NYE) and is a chronic alcoholic, vs taking a flier on Bauer who said he would sign for league min. / incentive laden contract.
Honestly, sign them both. They aren't my heros (well, Cutch is Cutch) and will help us win more baseball games. Keep them out of the media.
Not questioning you at all, just asking. Has Bauer said anything stupid since the suspension? If so, what?
Bauer’s been contrite, especially for him, since he got back from Japan. He’s apologized for oversights in his personal life like rough sex with strangers and for being an asshole in the media.
I didn't hear anything bad from him in Japan either. I think if he signes with a team, he is going to help them more than hurt them.
To support that, it sounds like he sought out treatment on his own initiative last summer. Perhaps the team forced him to, but that's not the way the write-up made it sound. Anyway, best to give people a second chance if they're truly remorseful and that takes judgement of those in our FO who meet with the player. Maybe we can have a little more confidence in our judgement with someone like Gelles on board?
TNBucs - I'm starting to think the Union is not backing Bauer getting signed. I haven't read anything about the Union getting his back, fighting his suspension etc. Gerrit Cole has been a Union rep for years and hates Bauer's guts.
Yes, this seems logical. If the Union had his back, it's hard to imagine that some team wouldn't have given him an opportunity by now. I wonder who his agent is--I'd think a top agent would have the leverage to find him a landing spot.
Jon Fetterolf and Rachel Luba
Wasn’t he his own agent for a while?
He was showing up to games drunk. He flew into a drunken rage in the Yankees clubhouse. But he is cheap and willing to sign a one-year deal, so that makes him perfect for the Cherington-Nutting show.
Well that fits perfectly with the Pirates. If there was ever a team you needed to show up drunk to watch….
Maybe a drunk German is better than some of the guys they have now when they are sober. This off-season has really become a joke. Next we will hear that the Pirates are showing interest in Latin sensation Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman as their next closer.
Whoa. You have a link to support these claims???
https://clutchpoints.com/yankees-news-disturbing-details-domingo-germans-violent-clubhouse-outburst-revealed
From a twitter post: "Domingo Germán had arguments with Aaron Boone and teammates during Tuesday’s incident. He flipped a couch, smashed a TV and made jokes while teammate Ron Marinaccio packed his bags for Triple-A. They made him go in a sauna to try and sweat out the alcohol" - Talkin' Yanks
Does that work? Like drinking a bottle of whiskey, feeling like you may puke, then eating some bread to "soak up the alcohol". It's in your system. Guess the whiskey sponge bread in your stomach gives you something to ralph.
Piratey thing is to get drunk and angry.
I think it's all BS. If they won't sign Bauer, why would they sign this lunatic?
It makes you wonder what he can do if he's able to stay sober.
There's probably some intricate calculation to determine how it can affect Bob's bottom liine.
Rowdy Tellez is a "hope" for the Pirates. In 2022 he hit a HR for every 15.1 AB which fell to a HR every 23.9 AB in 2023 - reason for why the Pirates got him for $3.2 mil or $1.8 mil less than he was paid in 2023. He does have incentives in his contract amounting to $800K, and we are all rooting that he gets that $800K.
Where do his HR/AB numbers put him on the Pirates? Suwinski led the Bucs in '23 with a HR for every 17.2 AB; second was Reynolds a HR for every 23.9 AB, so in his "terrible" 2023 season, Tellez would have tied for second best HR rate per AB for the Pirates! He also has decent K/BB numbers - 1.95 in 2022 and 2.45 in 2023.
Looking for Oneil Cruz to at least match his 2022 HR/AB of one for every 19.4 AB, and Liover Peguero to match or do better than his 2023 HR/AB of one for every 28.3 AB. Josh Palacios was VG at one HR for every 24.7 AB.
What I was upset with about the Tellez signing was that there were several first basemen to choose from and there still are. They quick grabbed Tellez like he was the last cookie on the plate. I hope he does well because I think he will be an easy guy to like.
I've never hated a player in the mlb more. That was my main issue with the signing. That and his 35hrs and 60 walks led to a .767ops and 0.8war. So the upside is low
I think too many people get caught up in WAR; it’s not the end all be all. There’s so much more to building a roster and complementary lineup.
even more than Curt Schilling?
Idk Mel, Tellez is kind of a Statcast “darling”. There is a reason why the Fangraphs piece is like the second or third article written about him this off-season…the nerds and data really like the bat. When healthy, his Statcast percentile rankings are a sea of red. He hits the ball really hard, and the breathe of data suggests that last year was just an anomaly. The nerd in me loves this signing. I don’t want to give this FO too much credit, but I think there were multiple reasons, other than money, they targeted him.
I would like the signing more if he would not be such a liabilty at 1b or if they had signed Santana to play 1b. For this team to win, they need to play excellent defense to backup the bad starting pitching.....they need a true centerfielder also.
I agree that they need to play excellent defense. Simple solution is to sign MAT to play or platoon in CF, then let Triolo take over 1B. You already have a plus defender in your back pocket, so there was never any real need to go after Santana. Especially when his Statcast numbers fell of a cliff last year. CS had a great career, but I think Father Time has caught up with him.
The biggest need defensively at 1B is someone to catch Cruz missiles. At 6'4 with a superb fld% I think Tellez can do that. Having the worst range in the league is bad though
Against only RHP's, his HR/AB drops to 22.04 in 2023. He is definitely a 4 month hire because if he does not get traded between the AS Break and Aug 1, we have a scoop! We need for him to pop about 15-18 HR by mid-July, and he will bring back a very decent return.
The fan graph piece clearly shows the new market inefficiency the buccos are poised to exploit. Tellez succeeds when he swings LESS
They've been collecting these guys the entire Cherington Era!
This ridiculous narrative about Andy Haines making everyone swing less is belied by the fact that they dudes they're targeting *already* bring patience with them.
Hyun Jin Ryu - please! The Pirates gamble on Tellez, and the the soft throwing lefties. Ryu has a history that puts these players to shame. We spend bits here and there. Put it all together and maybe we could have signed Montgomery which would improve the team more than all those signed. The only decent player we signed was Chapman.
Other than Tellez, what do all these other FA signings have in common??? They’re old as dirt!! Say no to Ryu!
I don't think free agents, as a rule, are worth what they're paid.
"Dragons is soooo STUPID."
-Wabbit
Yes, with Montgomery they had (have, if I'm dreaming) the chance to upgrade a position by, say, ~3 wins but instead they'd rather spread around much smaller amounts hoping to get a half win here and a half win there that might add up to 3. At least that's the impression I have. I know they're smart enough to fully grasp the value of consolidating increased WAR in individual players, but of course that comes with more risk.
It's also possible that a player like Montgomery won't be interested until this FO and coaching staff proves they can produce a winner.
I think that Cherington has refused to give out multi-year deals to free agents, which limits him to this endless stream of marginal "bounce-back" cluttering up the 40-man 2 years in a row. The reason, in my opinion, that he keeps doing one-offs and bounce-backs instead of signing quality free-agents is because he wants to save money and not have it tied up to deal with whatever holes appear next year, since there are so many question marks in the development of his prospects. This is just bad for several reasons. 1) This is not some bridge year at 1B or OF. There is no one rising up to claim CF or 1B next year. Trade or sign an established player on a multi-year deal. 2) All these pitching prospects are not going to pan out and pitchers get injured all the time. There will always be room for a quality starting pitcher on the team no matter how it goes with the prospects... so sign one and work the prospects (who have options) around the deal.
That’s inexcusable from a pitching standpoint though. Teams always need innings. You’re never going to regret signing a decent SP to a reasonable deal.
See I think pitchers on short deals are the absolute best value you can get right now. Just look at what the Rays do to succeed. Efflin at 3 years is the longest deal they ever gave.
I agree I wouldn’t go longer than 3, unless it’s some unique situation. My point was referencing that they don’t even seem willing to go to 2 years let alone 3, on anything close to market value. They should be players on anyone 3 and under at any reasonable deal. I’d be talking to Snell and Montgomery right now seeing if they’d want a pillow deal. Some of the guys who have already signed, I’d have tacked an extra year for 2 or 3 years, or gone with a higher AAV.
It’s just the cost of doing business nowadays and one that we aren’t willing to incur. The days of finding a Frankie Liriano on the cheap are long gone. There’s too many well run FO’s that are wise to that sort of thing. They are self limited into guys that are extreme injury risks or guys with super low ceilings.
Yes, refusing to give out multi-year deals to free agents is like we're trying to win a fight with one hand tied behind our back. He'd rather avoid risk than give the players we have the help they need to actually win. But the risk avoidance is surely a major reason Nutting recently said that Ben is doing a "fantastic" job.
That's because decent players cost money.
give us all the lefties!