Someone help me to understand why signing Martin Perez and this guy for 8-10 million per year is better than signing Shota Imanaga for 15 million. I am confused.
Shota, from what I’ve read, doesn’t seem to have a plus pitch to hang his hat on. Soft-tossing lefty (sounds fairly similar to Perez and Marco for that matter).
Also maybe he gets more than 15 mil? I dunno, these are my best guesses.
The only explanation I can think of is comparing them to boxes of chocolates.
Perez and Yariel is like a small specialty shops box that you know uses Hershey chocolate. It comes in medium size package and it cost is a little high but not bad. It might be good but how good can it be, at least you know the chocolate is going to be ok but nothing special.
Imanaga is like a craft shop that special blends all of its ingredients. You're buy it for its reputation, awards and reviews. It comes in a small package and costs a premium. You're either going to love it or hate it.
I am convinced that both Perez and Yariel can be and will be successful major league pitchers next year. What I am not convinced of is that they have enough to be successful starting pitchers who can work more than 4 innings. I am convinced that Imanaga can start and be at least a quality #4 option in a rotation, maybe better.
I agree, just trying to put into context that you kinda know what you're getting with Perez and Yariel, maybe not what you hoped for but tolerable for the price. Imanaga is going to be love him or hate him. If he's going to be a solid 3 or better you love it, if he turns into a 4 or worse you're going to hate it at the price he's going to cost.
Keep in mind with Contreras out of options he will definitely be on this roster either as a reliever/piggyback option or a return to form as a starter. If the Pirates have doubts, I could see him being a throw in on a bigger trade (Cabrera) which seems like selling very low.
Red Sox just signed Giolito. I hope that means they are out on Yariel Rodriguez. If so, maybe the Blue Jays and Pirates might be the only 2 teams willing to sign him as a starter.
The only good news there is they have been “in the lead” to sign FA in the past and left waiting for the player to show up. Hopefully this is one more time it happens 😁
There's still a piggy-back opportunity here in Pittsburgh, with plenty of candidates. Rodriguez and Priester. Rodriguez and Borucki. Rodriguez and Contreras. Rodriguez and Perez. Rodriguez and other new LH.
Feels like we can only do that if we get another real starter imo. I dont mind a piggyback thing one time through if we must, but if one day is a piggy back and one day is a banking on priester, ro, etc. then we are screwed. Also, if we are piggybacking gonzalez or perez to start the season, we are really screwed
"We need to optimize the entirety of Paul Skenes' time with the Pirates and not like a specific date in 2024."
With a quote like that, pretty sure they want to stay safe on S2. Definitely don't want to give him enough time to be considered for ROY. Looks like Skenes has already priced himself out of an extention without throwing a pitch in the majors.
Ironically, you could argue he's got a lot in common.
All four seem to get exposed as outings and innings increase.
A lot of talk last year about development failures that potentially led to all three losing significant stuff but the most obvious explanation seems to be that the "stuff" guys were talking about was essentially in relief. Short outings and roughly 100 innings on an arm in a given year.
I'd have little confidence that any of those three could dominate in Japan the way that Rodriguez has, though as starters they may be comparable. But we need options and adding Rodriguez to the mix would be big. There's never a guarantee, but a reasonable floor for Rodriguez would be an effective back-of-the-pen reliever which would still fill a need.
I know almost nothing about the guy, except his numbers. They looks like he dominated as a reliever, but never as a starter. In fact, he switched from a starter to a reliever. 2018 was the last year he pitched at least 100 innings. I understand why teams want him as a reliever, but looking for reasons why he might be more than a #3 starter in the majors.
"Rodriguez’s fastball underwent a nearly three-tick velocity bump in 2022, going from sitting 92-93 mph to sitting 94-96 and touching 100 in a relief capacity for the Chunichi Dragons. The added velocity came with (and was likely because of) a full-time move to the bullpen, and Rodriguez posted a 1.15 ERA in his 54 innings. Then Rodriguez pitched for Cuba's 2023 WBC team as a starter. After a rough-looking February tuneup before the actual competition began, he was nasty across 65-to-70 pitches in each of his two WBC starts, when Yariel sat 95, touched 98, and bent in a good vertical breaking ball in the 83-87 mph range. After his WBC performance, Rodriguez chose to opt out of the 2023 NPB season and focus on training to come to MLB the following year. Chunichi put him on the restricted list and Rodriguez wasn’t heard from until October, when he threw live BP for teams in the Dominican Republic and looked like his usual self.
There may be teams that view Rodriguez as a potential MLB starter because of his repertoire depth and brief success in the WBC, but hold your horses. He started for multiple seasons in Japan and wasn't very good, with a FIP near 5.00 in 2021 prompting a bullpen move the following year. He only came into impact velocity once he moved to the 'pen and there is zero evidence that he'd be able to sustain it as a starter, in fact quite the contrary. As a relief candidate, Rodriguez is exciting and has the stuff to pitch in higher-leverage innings. His vertical fastball/breaking ball combo looks similar to Peter Fairbanks' stuff (minus a few ticks of velo) and is on par with the second- or third- best reliever coming out of a contender's bullpen."
That is an awesome report!!! It sounds like teams will outbid the Pirates for reliever Yariel, but the Pirates only chance to get him might be to let him be a starter.
And if you really squint, you could make the argument that they succeeded in getting Oviedo to settle into a starter role after the Cards had moved him to the pen which hopefully builds confidence they could do the same with this guy.
I get the skepticism, but I don't know man. They gotta try something. I think they could do a lot worse than giving him a go.
Me if we sign Rodriguez: I like the movement and the similar releases of his pitches in the WBC clip--excited to add an arm like his without the cost of a prospect!
Me if we don't sign Rodriguez: The Aussies had some hard hit balls in that clip--I'm skeptical that he can get major league batters out.
I'd much rather give up a prospect or 2 or 3 to get a proven arm. As you mentioned, if this guy is giving up hard hits to Aussies, what are the best hitters on the planet going to do?
I mentioned the other day, Priester, Ortiz and Roansy were all 50fv prospects. Now they're worth nothing in a trade.
I agree that it's time to trade prospects, including guys like Peguero, Gonzales, Bae, and Priester (some of whom have lost "prospect" status) for a proven arm. I'm optimistic we'll see such a deal, with the question being just how big will it be?
So, sign Rodriguez and make a trade--Keller and the trade acquisition head up the rotation while Rodriguez, Perez, Gonzales, Ortiz, Priester, and Contreras battle it out for the other 3-4 spots (if four guys deserve spots, go with a 6-man rotation).
Not sure I understand why the Pirates are active for this Cuban pitcher other than possibly to stay relevant. They are looking at him as a SP which may be the tipping point for him.
What is more important in the write-up is that the Yankees are looking at him as a RP. They traded a lot of pitching to get Soto and Verdugo, and the Pirates have to be a favorite trading partner of theirs for relievers (Holmes). What do the Yankees have? An abundance of CF's. They got Trent Grisham from SD in the Soto trade. so the OF for the Yankees on opening day should be Soto, Grisham, and Judge. My two favorite CF's in the Yankee system are Jasson Dominguez, 20 (ungettable), and Everson Pereira, 22.
Pereira, from Venezuela, is my favorite to work his way into CF for the Pirates. A RH hitter with a slash of .300/.373/.548/.921 OPS in 81 games at AA/AAA in 2023, and his power numbers are almost equal to those of Dominguez, who is recovering from TJ surgery. Pereira also played 27 games in MLB for the Yankees in 2023, but was seriously overmatched at the plate, so the price could be reasonable for the possibility of getting a CF for the foreseeable future.
The Pirates had Bednar, Moreta, and Holderman high in the rankings of Relievers by Fangraphs. Bednar is definitely out. Holderman? And, is this the point at which we think about one of our second basemen to sweeten a deal if we need to?
If we are serious about wanting to trade for a young, RH hitting, prospect CF, Boston has a kid by the name of Ceddanne Rafaela, from Curacao, who was .302/.349/.520/.869 OPS at AA/AAA and also played for 83 AB in MLB. Did not check to see what Boston needs that we may have in abundance.
Playing time is our biggest selling point, lean into it BC! I’m excited yet skeptical about Rodriguez’s potential as a starter, big upside, but lots of risk giving the biggest FA contract in team history to a former NPB reliever.
Luddite that I am, I can’t. And I’m not sure if this was covered elsewhere, but FG threw a 45 on him saying he’s likely a reliever.
He had a velocity boost in relief, and pretty good across 60-70 pitches, sitting 95 with a good slider. However, he started multiple years in Japan and wasn’t very good, necessitating the move to the pen and has zero evidence of maintaining a velocity jump as a starter.
That may be a good guess given some of the deals we've seen, but McDaniel had predicted 4/30, MLBTR 4/32, and FG (Clemens) 3/30. I'd guess the Pirates prefer 3 over 4 years and might even want to just go 2 years, so I'll guess something like 2/28 or 3/36 if the Pirates are to sign him.
I can see the Red Sox or Jays going higher and won't get my hopes up. It would make a strong statement, though, if we signed a player that big market teams were also interested in.
Someone help me to understand why signing Martin Perez and this guy for 8-10 million per year is better than signing Shota Imanaga for 15 million. I am confused.
Shota, from what I’ve read, doesn’t seem to have a plus pitch to hang his hat on. Soft-tossing lefty (sounds fairly similar to Perez and Marco for that matter).
Also maybe he gets more than 15 mil? I dunno, these are my best guesses.
The only explanation I can think of is comparing them to boxes of chocolates.
Perez and Yariel is like a small specialty shops box that you know uses Hershey chocolate. It comes in medium size package and it cost is a little high but not bad. It might be good but how good can it be, at least you know the chocolate is going to be ok but nothing special.
Imanaga is like a craft shop that special blends all of its ingredients. You're buy it for its reputation, awards and reviews. It comes in a small package and costs a premium. You're either going to love it or hate it.
I am convinced that both Perez and Yariel can be and will be successful major league pitchers next year. What I am not convinced of is that they have enough to be successful starting pitchers who can work more than 4 innings. I am convinced that Imanaga can start and be at least a quality #4 option in a rotation, maybe better.
I agree, just trying to put into context that you kinda know what you're getting with Perez and Yariel, maybe not what you hoped for but tolerable for the price. Imanaga is going to be love him or hate him. If he's going to be a solid 3 or better you love it, if he turns into a 4 or worse you're going to hate it at the price he's going to cost.
I am convinced we signed Martin Perez to be a left handed reliever for us
Very well might be, but Ben brought him in as a starter if he's paying him $8 million.
$8 million is about the max Bob's going to spend on a starter, specially after getting burned so bad on Frankie's 3 for $39 million deal.
Keep in mind with Contreras out of options he will definitely be on this roster either as a reliever/piggyback option or a return to form as a starter. If the Pirates have doubts, I could see him being a throw in on a bigger trade (Cabrera) which seems like selling very low.
Red Sox just signed Giolito. I hope that means they are out on Yariel Rodriguez. If so, maybe the Blue Jays and Pirates might be the only 2 teams willing to sign him as a starter.
Hopefully his agent tells him about the tax situation in Toronto and Pittsburgh can a better fit not pitching against the AL east.😁😁
better scenario is Toronto signs him and that opens the door for them to trade us Manoah and Varsho
I am starting to buy into us signing Yariel. Who am I kidding? I am all in.
Blue Jays apparently in the lead to sign him!
The only good news there is they have been “in the lead” to sign FA in the past and left waiting for the player to show up. Hopefully this is one more time it happens 😁
There's still a piggy-back opportunity here in Pittsburgh, with plenty of candidates. Rodriguez and Priester. Rodriguez and Borucki. Rodriguez and Contreras. Rodriguez and Perez. Rodriguez and other new LH.
Feels like we can only do that if we get another real starter imo. I dont mind a piggyback thing one time through if we must, but if one day is a piggy back and one day is a banking on priester, ro, etc. then we are screwed. Also, if we are piggybacking gonzalez or perez to start the season, we are really screwed
Well BC just had a quote to remember.
"We need to optimize the entirety of Paul Skenes' time with the Pirates and not like a specific date in 2024."
With a quote like that, pretty sure they want to stay safe on S2. Definitely don't want to give him enough time to be considered for ROY. Looks like Skenes has already priced himself out of an extention without throwing a pitch in the majors.
Whered you see that?
In the new article on PBN.
what is a pbn?
Pittsburgh baseball now
Websight
Anyone remember Yoslan Herrera?
Contreras was once a Pirate for five innings
this guy is not better than Priester, Ortiz, Contreras
60 grade FB and 70 grade slider with 3 other show-mes. He could be pretty interesting, imo.
Ironically, you could argue he's got a lot in common.
All four seem to get exposed as outings and innings increase.
A lot of talk last year about development failures that potentially led to all three losing significant stuff but the most obvious explanation seems to be that the "stuff" guys were talking about was essentially in relief. Short outings and roughly 100 innings on an arm in a given year.
I'd have little confidence that any of those three could dominate in Japan the way that Rodriguez has, though as starters they may be comparable. But we need options and adding Rodriguez to the mix would be big. There's never a guarantee, but a reasonable floor for Rodriguez would be an effective back-of-the-pen reliever which would still fill a need.
I know almost nothing about the guy, except his numbers. They looks like he dominated as a reliever, but never as a starter. In fact, he switched from a starter to a reliever. 2018 was the last year he pitched at least 100 innings. I understand why teams want him as a reliever, but looking for reasons why he might be more than a #3 starter in the majors.
are you talking about Yariel Rodriguez or Martin Perez ?
Yariel
not worth more than a $3million gamble which by seeing Fedde´s contract, he will inevitably cost
A little help.
a) Why did Yariel get moved from a starter to a reliever after 2021?
b) Why did he not pitch last year?
Best I could find:
"Rodriguez’s fastball underwent a nearly three-tick velocity bump in 2022, going from sitting 92-93 mph to sitting 94-96 and touching 100 in a relief capacity for the Chunichi Dragons. The added velocity came with (and was likely because of) a full-time move to the bullpen, and Rodriguez posted a 1.15 ERA in his 54 innings. Then Rodriguez pitched for Cuba's 2023 WBC team as a starter. After a rough-looking February tuneup before the actual competition began, he was nasty across 65-to-70 pitches in each of his two WBC starts, when Yariel sat 95, touched 98, and bent in a good vertical breaking ball in the 83-87 mph range. After his WBC performance, Rodriguez chose to opt out of the 2023 NPB season and focus on training to come to MLB the following year. Chunichi put him on the restricted list and Rodriguez wasn’t heard from until October, when he threw live BP for teams in the Dominican Republic and looked like his usual self.
There may be teams that view Rodriguez as a potential MLB starter because of his repertoire depth and brief success in the WBC, but hold your horses. He started for multiple seasons in Japan and wasn't very good, with a FIP near 5.00 in 2021 prompting a bullpen move the following year. He only came into impact velocity once he moved to the 'pen and there is zero evidence that he'd be able to sustain it as a starter, in fact quite the contrary. As a relief candidate, Rodriguez is exciting and has the stuff to pitch in higher-leverage innings. His vertical fastball/breaking ball combo looks similar to Peter Fairbanks' stuff (minus a few ticks of velo) and is on par with the second- or third- best reliever coming out of a contender's bullpen."
https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/international-players
That is an awesome report!!! It sounds like teams will outbid the Pirates for reliever Yariel, but the Pirates only chance to get him might be to let him be a starter.
And if you really squint, you could make the argument that they succeeded in getting Oviedo to settle into a starter role after the Cards had moved him to the pen which hopefully builds confidence they could do the same with this guy.
I get the skepticism, but I don't know man. They gotta try something. I think they could do a lot worse than giving him a go.
Good comparison on Oviedo. I am in on Yariel as well.
Nice nugget on Oviedo. Maybe Johan can do his best sales job as a fellow Cuban.
Oviedo should probably wait until after Yariel signs to tell him about his Tommy John surgery. :)
Me if we sign Rodriguez: I like the movement and the similar releases of his pitches in the WBC clip--excited to add an arm like his without the cost of a prospect!
Me if we don't sign Rodriguez: The Aussies had some hard hit balls in that clip--I'm skeptical that he can get major league batters out.
I'd much rather give up a prospect or 2 or 3 to get a proven arm. As you mentioned, if this guy is giving up hard hits to Aussies, what are the best hitters on the planet going to do?
I mentioned the other day, Priester, Ortiz and Roansy were all 50fv prospects. Now they're worth nothing in a trade.
I agree that it's time to trade prospects, including guys like Peguero, Gonzales, Bae, and Priester (some of whom have lost "prospect" status) for a proven arm. I'm optimistic we'll see such a deal, with the question being just how big will it be?
So, sign Rodriguez and make a trade--Keller and the trade acquisition head up the rotation while Rodriguez, Perez, Gonzales, Ortiz, Priester, and Contreras battle it out for the other 3-4 spots (if four guys deserve spots, go with a 6-man rotation).
There's something going on...why haven't they announced the Perez signing that seemingly was a month ago.
I'm guessing BC is deep in trade talks regarding someone on the 40.
This is some good reasoning, i hope you are right
I have to be the last fan in Pittsburgh to figure out who Paul Skenes is dating, correct? Whew.
We are on track to be the baton rouge of the north if we can get those two in the city for several years
Shouldn’t it be Baton Nord? I’ll see my way out.
It will take exactly two mediocre starts for every mouthbreathing Pittsburgh sports jock to turn her into a cancer.
Dude, you know as well as I do that Taylor is the reason for the Chiefs struggles.
Huntington would've flown a flag if not for Vanessa Hudgins. Ruined Cole Tucker and took the 2019 Buccos down with them.
I doubt it in her case. She's already a pretty big brand.
you're right, way bigger than Taylor Swift.
I assumed you were recalling Pirates fans dogging Anna Benson. Olivia Dunne is quite a bit bigger than her.
Not sure I understand why the Pirates are active for this Cuban pitcher other than possibly to stay relevant. They are looking at him as a SP which may be the tipping point for him.
What is more important in the write-up is that the Yankees are looking at him as a RP. They traded a lot of pitching to get Soto and Verdugo, and the Pirates have to be a favorite trading partner of theirs for relievers (Holmes). What do the Yankees have? An abundance of CF's. They got Trent Grisham from SD in the Soto trade. so the OF for the Yankees on opening day should be Soto, Grisham, and Judge. My two favorite CF's in the Yankee system are Jasson Dominguez, 20 (ungettable), and Everson Pereira, 22.
Pereira, from Venezuela, is my favorite to work his way into CF for the Pirates. A RH hitter with a slash of .300/.373/.548/.921 OPS in 81 games at AA/AAA in 2023, and his power numbers are almost equal to those of Dominguez, who is recovering from TJ surgery. Pereira also played 27 games in MLB for the Yankees in 2023, but was seriously overmatched at the plate, so the price could be reasonable for the possibility of getting a CF for the foreseeable future.
I’d take Pereira for sure. Not sure the Bucs have anything the Yankees would want though
The Pirates had Bednar, Moreta, and Holderman high in the rankings of Relievers by Fangraphs. Bednar is definitely out. Holderman? And, is this the point at which we think about one of our second basemen to sweeten a deal if we need to?
If we are serious about wanting to trade for a young, RH hitting, prospect CF, Boston has a kid by the name of Ceddanne Rafaela, from Curacao, who was .302/.349/.520/.869 OPS at AA/AAA and also played for 83 AB in MLB. Did not check to see what Boston needs that we may have in abundance.
Playing time is our biggest selling point, lean into it BC! I’m excited yet skeptical about Rodriguez’s potential as a starter, big upside, but lots of risk giving the biggest FA contract in team history to a former NPB reliever.
Anybody have a link to a good report on him?
Luddite that I am, I can’t. And I’m not sure if this was covered elsewhere, but FG threw a 45 on him saying he’s likely a reliever.
He had a velocity boost in relief, and pretty good across 60-70 pitches, sitting 95 with a good slider. However, he started multiple years in Japan and wasn’t very good, necessitating the move to the pen and has zero evidence of maintaining a velocity jump as a starter.
lol, that was the only decent report I found as well. I appreciate the company i'm in! ;)
Haven't heard any $ estimates,
what are you thinking.....4/$48 just a guess.
That may be a good guess given some of the deals we've seen, but McDaniel had predicted 4/30, MLBTR 4/32, and FG (Clemens) 3/30. I'd guess the Pirates prefer 3 over 4 years and might even want to just go 2 years, so I'll guess something like 2/28 or 3/36 if the Pirates are to sign him.
I can see the Red Sox or Jays going higher and won't get my hopes up. It would make a strong statement, though, if we signed a player that big market teams were also interested in.
I think they’ll look to one up the Liriano deal (3/$39) since they love “record-setting deals”. My guess is 4/$42 based on the other guesses
that said, i’ll take this to start the year.
Keller - Perez - Rodriguez - Gonzalez - Contreras/Falter/Ortiz/Priester