You may have missed his errors in Game 1 and Game 8 that were not ruled errors. Both allowed runs to be charged to Skenes and Keller, and were 3rd out errors that would have ended the inning. So that's 3 errors in 8 games. His arm is noticeably below average for a SS. In no way can that be called playing "great defense". It's objective critique not hate.
Yeah. I don't hate the guy. I think he's a decent ballplayer. He is just playing out of his natural position, and he is not prepared to play every day, like 20 other guys on the team. The problem is not IKF. It's Littlefield and Russell.
True. But using probably any fielding metric with such a small sample size is probably as reliable as the ol’ eye test!
I do agree that IKF - though miscast as an everyday SS on a team in year 6 of a rebuild- is definitely not the problem right now based on his play this year.
No. The problem is using prospect capital and 7.5 million (not counting his salary last year) to acquire another 2Bman when you already had Gonzalez. It is the constant accumulation of bad decisions like this one and the misallocation of scant resources.
This specific problem is further compounded by signing Frazier (another 1.5 million) instead of a glove-only SS in the off-season. If you had IKF at 2B right now and a good defensive SS, you would have, at least, a reasonable infield and not a black hole at 2B and bad defense at SS.
Sure.....the eye test not matching the metrics. And then the metrics change from one season to a next drastically.......you know this, they're not trustworthy.
Feeling sad and disillusioned today... Just maybe the booing and all brought a sour mood to some of the more moody players? I would hope it would inspire them to prove the naysayers wrong. It's going to be a long season unless there are some jobs lost. I just can't fathom an owner so tone deaf that he kept the current management team in place. It's just unfathomable.
Imagine how disheartening this is for the players. It’s your home opener in a 162 game season, and the fans are booing the manager and certain players. Chants of sell the team. Reynolds and Hayes have signed long-term deals. Skenes is thinking “I have to do this for 4-5 more years?” Cutch can remember the good seasons, and what it COULD be like. And they have do this every day for the next 6 months.
Everyone can see the failure. Everyone. Except the one guy that matters. Bob Nutting.
Skenes was seen on the telecast shaking his head with the boos for Holderman. I understand he is a pro's pro and thinks it's not the time and place for that. But he's not been a Pirate's fan since 1993 or a season ticket purchaser. Or watched how Nutting runs the club since 2007....He should withhold his criticism of the fans. Pittsburgh fans have a much higher bar for their professional sports teams than the past 5 seasons in particular
Actually, the Pittsburgh fans have been exceedingly patient with these guys. Can you imagine if the Phillies, Yankees, Cardinals, or any other organization fielding a team this bad for 6 consecutive seasons? Cardinals fans are up in arms after 1 losing season and missing the playoffs twice. The Yankees basically told their manager last season that if the team does no reach the World Series he would be fired.
The Pirates should be happy that there is still enough interest for the fans to boo them. In most cities, no one would even care if a team this bad were playing.
Honestly, the traditional media (columnists and reporters) should be ashamed. They are part of the overall problem. When Cherington, Nutting or Shelton even mention the word *winning,* there are no educated follow ups about, for example, how signing and leading off a Pham in YEAR SIX and now with SKENES has any relation to trying to win.
As is their right! (Not that I’m saying you don’t agree). They aren’t at the Miracle League games booing and making a ruckus. They are showing their displeasure for how the actual team is run.
Amidst the 2-6 debacle, I did see a couple positives. Key has turned on the ball 3 times in the past 2 games.....ie pulled it to left side incl the HR. Bart froze at 3rd on a ground ball to third.....now was that him or Rabelo.....I can't give the credit to Rabelo just yet. That was likely Bart being a catcher and catcher's usually have a good baseball IQ. Cutch comes up big in the home opener which is a good sign for him. Cruz is having quality ABs, showing some discipline at the plate.
But this quote is objectively untrue to an outrageous degree. He has not done everything he can to provide the tools and resources to the team. That is laughable. I’m not excusing the GM and the manager, but Nutting is completely delusional. If Branch Rickey were GM and Earl Weaver were manager they would still be struggling to win with the budget constraints that Nutting imposes. And then he compounds the problem by hiring people who fall far short of those all-time greats.
The last sentence spot on. The execution part is player development, baseball IQ during games, teaching, correcting, proper drills, etc.......and the BC/Shelton group are failures on the execution front.
He carried on in that interview at length about the importance of the "fan experience," how long fans have to wait in lines, and the quality of the food booths. The bad vibes were absolutely needed, because the man is dense. He runs newspapers, and he just doesn't seem to understand any sort of customer-oriented business. No one cares if there is no line at the beer vendor when the primary entertainment is unwatchable. No one goes to see a bad movie at the theater because they like the popcorn. The team is the attraction, not the pierogis.
I'm afraid you are right. He seems to value his work as a charitable organization for the city far far more than as leading a competitive proud professional sports team. If only someone would explain that to him and offer him the CEO of the United Way or Red Cross in Pittsburgh.
And it’s as *in your face* as it gets as far as the message to the fans is that getting your dollar (great fan experience, except the winning part) is what is most important to ownership.
With this budget, a baseball-minded president is beyond necessary.
I was there for about six innings before reaching my limit of disgust. Just terrible energy. Booing Holderman and Shelton during the intros. Audible sell the team chant at one point. The only saving grace was the significant number of Yankees fans there to dull some of the hostility. This organization sucks.
Yeah I was also at the home opener yesterday, and agree that the vibes were terrible pretty much all game and got worse with each error and misstep.
I sincerely felt bad for the players when the long and audible sell the team chant started. It was during a Reynolds AB too and all I could think was why couldn’t the chant started when Pham was up?
Someone has to hold the players accountable for their constant slapstick plays in the field, lack of hustle, and general disorganization. Shelton certainly is not going to do it.
When you get picked off first in a game that you are trailing by 6 runs, you are not a major-league baseball player.
IKF will not get the same treatment Bae got for a bone-headed baserunning mistake. Maybe that's fair because of IKF's long track record of being a heady player. But I also wonder how such double-standards play in the clubhouse.
In any case, too many players just don't seemed focused like every game really matters. It feels like a culture thing and they keep trying to bring in players to change that culture while ignoring the obvious--it all starts with the manager and coaching staff. In year 6 we shouldn't need to sign someone like Pham or Frazier because they bring intensity, know how to win, etc.
I cannot agree with this comment enough. It is a culture thing, because the man responsible, Russell, is more interested in having the players like him than he is in having them prepared to play professional baseball every day.
3 guys showed up ready to play yesterday: Cutch, Reynolds, and Hayes. About the only 3 actual professionals among the position players.
Do you watch the game? The problem I have with criticizing IKF is that Freid's foot goes behind the rubber on that move and should be called as a balk. IKF is basing his secondary lead on the current rules that aren't being enforced consistently.
Interesting observation......but IKF actually looked home to the batter before Fried delivered, taking his eye off Fried and getting picked off. It's still a mental error on IKF.
IKF says all the right things, should be a leader in the clubhouse....but then, oh, he has to play the game and that's where his credibility as a leader ends.
I can only imagine the comments on here if that was Cruz. Whatever the case, the names change every year, but the same problems have persisted since Shelton became the manager. He is over his head, as is Littlefield, and this has been obvious to everyone, except Nutting, for at least a year and half.
Any business that gets yelp reviews like this -- particularly on an opening day with a full house - would take a serious look at how they're running things.
I know ownership isn't going to change, but this first week of games has been particularly indicting for the on-field management team.
The Pirates score was bad enough, but to have to watch the highlights on MLB is pure punishment. Glad to see Hayes and Reynolds go yard, but the pitching and defense looked highly dysfunctional. Bring up Peguero to play SS and put IKF at 2B (IKF is just not an MLB-caliber SS). Peguero is 24 and a strong chance to be at SS next year - might as well start early.
Nice pitching work by Carson Fulmer at AAA, Hunter Barco at AA, and Matoma/Carey at A+. Gourson with an excellent game at leadoff, but, for Best Hitter, I would have favored one of the guys who got hits to drive him in - my pick would have been LF Esmerlyn Valdez who had 2 hits, a Walk, and 2 RBI. C Omar Alfonzo also had 2 hits, a Walk, and 2 RBI, but 2 K's. And, I cannot stop without saying something positive about Javier Rivas, SS and No. 4 hitter for GBO who doubled, drove in 2 Runs, Walked, AND DID NOT POST ANY STRIKEOUTS. Possibly one of the best fielding SS in the system who has struggled mightily with making contact.
Just could not bring yourself to give Best Hitter at A to Konnor Griffin? Leadoff hitter with 2 hits, a Walk, 2 SB's, 2 runs, but the 2 K's probably hurt his chances. In last night's lineup he and Axial Plaz are 19, YDLS, Jhonny Severino, and Carlos Caro are 20. Probably see Richard Ramirez and Tony Blanco there soon and they are both young 20 year olds.
Cutch played his ass off yesterday and he’s getting benched for Anthony Alford.
Hey, in his one non-negligible season in Pgh, Alford had an OPS+ of 93. He bats cleanup on this team.
The hate for IKF blows my mind. Dude is only hitting .360 and playing great defense. Yet dudes like Endy & Triolo get free passes.
You may have missed his errors in Game 1 and Game 8 that were not ruled errors. Both allowed runs to be charged to Skenes and Keller, and were 3rd out errors that would have ended the inning. So that's 3 errors in 8 games. His arm is noticeably below average for a SS. In no way can that be called playing "great defense". It's objective critique not hate.
More objective evidence for IKF…
67th percentile for hitting.
85th percentile for baserunning. Obviously very small sample but so far he’s been their best player.
Yeah. I don't hate the guy. I think he's a decent ballplayer. He is just playing out of his natural position, and he is not prepared to play every day, like 20 other guys on the team. The problem is not IKF. It's Littlefield and Russell.
Metrics so far disagree that he’s playing out of position
The metrics that have him as a below average SS over 3,000 innings and a very good defensive 3Bman and 2Bman? To what metrics do you refer?
He’s the only player on the roster capable of playing SS.
That's my point. The problem is the guy who constructed a roster without a SS and with 15 2Bman.
You’re being subjective.
He’s in the 85th percentile for OAA, that’s being objective.
Is that just for this year at SS?
Yeah, they’re complaining about his play this year.
True. But using probably any fielding metric with such a small sample size is probably as reliable as the ol’ eye test!
I do agree that IKF - though miscast as an everyday SS on a team in year 6 of a rebuild- is definitely not the problem right now based on his play this year.
No. The problem is using prospect capital and 7.5 million (not counting his salary last year) to acquire another 2Bman when you already had Gonzalez. It is the constant accumulation of bad decisions like this one and the misallocation of scant resources.
This specific problem is further compounded by signing Frazier (another 1.5 million) instead of a glove-only SS in the off-season. If you had IKF at 2B right now and a good defensive SS, you would have, at least, a reasonable infield and not a black hole at 2B and bad defense at SS.
Except OAA, DRS, etc have been widely disputed as meaningful defensive metrics by even the professional analysts.
Professional analysts are using the eye test?
Sure.....the eye test not matching the metrics. And then the metrics change from one season to a next drastically.......you know this, they're not trustworthy.
The metrics are KPIs measuring the distance a defender covers and the time it takes to cover the distance. Seems trustworthy to me.
Nobody using the eye test when you have technology we have now.
Feeling sad and disillusioned today... Just maybe the booing and all brought a sour mood to some of the more moody players? I would hope it would inspire them to prove the naysayers wrong. It's going to be a long season unless there are some jobs lost. I just can't fathom an owner so tone deaf that he kept the current management team in place. It's just unfathomable.
And untenable.
Imagine how disheartening this is for the players. It’s your home opener in a 162 game season, and the fans are booing the manager and certain players. Chants of sell the team. Reynolds and Hayes have signed long-term deals. Skenes is thinking “I have to do this for 4-5 more years?” Cutch can remember the good seasons, and what it COULD be like. And they have do this every day for the next 6 months.
Everyone can see the failure. Everyone. Except the one guy that matters. Bob Nutting.
Skenes was seen on the telecast shaking his head with the boos for Holderman. I understand he is a pro's pro and thinks it's not the time and place for that. But he's not been a Pirate's fan since 1993 or a season ticket purchaser. Or watched how Nutting runs the club since 2007....He should withhold his criticism of the fans. Pittsburgh fans have a much higher bar for their professional sports teams than the past 5 seasons in particular
under current mgmt.
Actually, the Pittsburgh fans have been exceedingly patient with these guys. Can you imagine if the Phillies, Yankees, Cardinals, or any other organization fielding a team this bad for 6 consecutive seasons? Cardinals fans are up in arms after 1 losing season and missing the playoffs twice. The Yankees basically told their manager last season that if the team does no reach the World Series he would be fired.
The Pirates should be happy that there is still enough interest for the fans to boo them. In most cities, no one would even care if a team this bad were playing.
Amen. I would add Boston to your list. Pittsburgh fans are unbelievably tolerant, and the media is pitiful.
Honestly, the traditional media (columnists and reporters) should be ashamed. They are part of the overall problem. When Cherington, Nutting or Shelton even mention the word *winning,* there are no educated follow ups about, for example, how signing and leading off a Pham in YEAR SIX and now with SKENES has any relation to trying to win.
I don’t know. Chanting sell the team and booing players during intros on opening day doesn’t seem tolerant
As is their right! (Not that I’m saying you don’t agree). They aren’t at the Miracle League games booing and making a ruckus. They are showing their displeasure for how the actual team is run.
Absolutely it’s their right. They’re paying fans, but to say they’re tolerant is wrong.
Amidst the 2-6 debacle, I did see a couple positives. Key has turned on the ball 3 times in the past 2 games.....ie pulled it to left side incl the HR. Bart froze at 3rd on a ground ball to third.....now was that him or Rabelo.....I can't give the credit to Rabelo just yet. That was likely Bart being a catcher and catcher's usually have a good baseball IQ. Cutch comes up big in the home opener which is a good sign for him. Cruz is having quality ABs, showing some discipline at the plate.
Nutting as quoted by the PG:
“Yes. I think that I’ve done everything that I can to provide the tools and resources to the team. There is a point where it becomes execution."
So Nutting passes the buck to Cherington and Shelton for execution, and they pass the buck to the players. At least the players take responsibility.
At least Nutting said it out loud.....it's about time. Maybe shows he actually is paying attention.
But this quote is objectively untrue to an outrageous degree. He has not done everything he can to provide the tools and resources to the team. That is laughable. I’m not excusing the GM and the manager, but Nutting is completely delusional. If Branch Rickey were GM and Earl Weaver were manager they would still be struggling to win with the budget constraints that Nutting imposes. And then he compounds the problem by hiring people who fall far short of those all-time greats.
The last sentence spot on. The execution part is player development, baseball IQ during games, teaching, correcting, proper drills, etc.......and the BC/Shelton group are failures on the execution front.
He carried on in that interview at length about the importance of the "fan experience," how long fans have to wait in lines, and the quality of the food booths. The bad vibes were absolutely needed, because the man is dense. He runs newspapers, and he just doesn't seem to understand any sort of customer-oriented business. No one cares if there is no line at the beer vendor when the primary entertainment is unwatchable. No one goes to see a bad movie at the theater because they like the popcorn. The team is the attraction, not the pierogis.
I disagree. One of the best things the Pirates can offer their fans is zero wait time for alcohol.
I'm afraid you are right. He seems to value his work as a charitable organization for the city far far more than as leading a competitive proud professional sports team. If only someone would explain that to him and offer him the CEO of the United Way or Red Cross in Pittsburgh.
Reflective of him hiring Travis Williams over someone with a baseball background.
Yeah, that’s totally counter to the recent trend in MLB. Shows how completely uninvested he is in on-field success.
Nuttin’s low payrolls pale in significance compared to his incompetence as a businessman.
And it’s as *in your face* as it gets as far as the message to the fans is that getting your dollar (great fan experience, except the winning part) is what is most important to ownership.
With this budget, a baseball-minded president is beyond necessary.
I was there for about six innings before reaching my limit of disgust. Just terrible energy. Booing Holderman and Shelton during the intros. Audible sell the team chant at one point. The only saving grace was the significant number of Yankees fans there to dull some of the hostility. This organization sucks.
Yeah I was also at the home opener yesterday, and agree that the vibes were terrible pretty much all game and got worse with each error and misstep.
I sincerely felt bad for the players when the long and audible sell the team chant started. It was during a Reynolds AB too and all I could think was why couldn’t the chant started when Pham was up?
Someone has to hold the players accountable for their constant slapstick plays in the field, lack of hustle, and general disorganization. Shelton certainly is not going to do it.
When you get picked off first in a game that you are trailing by 6 runs, you are not a major-league baseball player.
IKF will not get the same treatment Bae got for a bone-headed baserunning mistake. Maybe that's fair because of IKF's long track record of being a heady player. But I also wonder how such double-standards play in the clubhouse.
In any case, too many players just don't seemed focused like every game really matters. It feels like a culture thing and they keep trying to bring in players to change that culture while ignoring the obvious--it all starts with the manager and coaching staff. In year 6 we shouldn't need to sign someone like Pham or Frazier because they bring intensity, know how to win, etc.
Why would the players be invested in winning when nobody above them is? In any organization, culture starts at the top.
I cannot agree with this comment enough. It is a culture thing, because the man responsible, Russell, is more interested in having the players like him than he is in having them prepared to play professional baseball every day.
3 guys showed up ready to play yesterday: Cutch, Reynolds, and Hayes. About the only 3 actual professionals among the position players.
Do you watch the game? The problem I have with criticizing IKF is that Freid's foot goes behind the rubber on that move and should be called as a balk. IKF is basing his secondary lead on the current rules that aren't being enforced consistently.
Interesting observation......but IKF actually looked home to the batter before Fried delivered, taking his eye off Fried and getting picked off. It's still a mental error on IKF.
IKF says all the right things, should be a leader in the clubhouse....but then, oh, he has to play the game and that's where his credibility as a leader ends.
I can only imagine the comments on here if that was Cruz. Whatever the case, the names change every year, but the same problems have persisted since Shelton became the manager. He is over his head, as is Littlefield, and this has been obvious to everyone, except Nutting, for at least a year and half.
Any business that gets yelp reviews like this -- particularly on an opening day with a full house - would take a serious look at how they're running things.
I know ownership isn't going to change, but this first week of games has been particularly indicting for the on-field management team.
The Pirates score was bad enough, but to have to watch the highlights on MLB is pure punishment. Glad to see Hayes and Reynolds go yard, but the pitching and defense looked highly dysfunctional. Bring up Peguero to play SS and put IKF at 2B (IKF is just not an MLB-caliber SS). Peguero is 24 and a strong chance to be at SS next year - might as well start early.
Nice pitching work by Carson Fulmer at AAA, Hunter Barco at AA, and Matoma/Carey at A+. Gourson with an excellent game at leadoff, but, for Best Hitter, I would have favored one of the guys who got hits to drive him in - my pick would have been LF Esmerlyn Valdez who had 2 hits, a Walk, and 2 RBI. C Omar Alfonzo also had 2 hits, a Walk, and 2 RBI, but 2 K's. And, I cannot stop without saying something positive about Javier Rivas, SS and No. 4 hitter for GBO who doubled, drove in 2 Runs, Walked, AND DID NOT POST ANY STRIKEOUTS. Possibly one of the best fielding SS in the system who has struggled mightily with making contact.
Just could not bring yourself to give Best Hitter at A to Konnor Griffin? Leadoff hitter with 2 hits, a Walk, 2 SB's, 2 runs, but the 2 K's probably hurt his chances. In last night's lineup he and Axial Plaz are 19, YDLS, Jhonny Severino, and Carlos Caro are 20. Probably see Richard Ramirez and Tony Blanco there soon and they are both young 20 year olds.