At this point, I don't care if they make the playoffs. Before spring training, I said on one of these comment sections that I had little hope for the season. The starting pitching didn't look so great, and we were relying on unproven offensive talent, and our starting catcher was out for the season. I didn't foresee Skenes and Jones doing what they've done. I thought Hayes and Davis would be better. I thought Jack would be at least what he was last season, and the bullpen would be a strength. It just goes to show you how unpredictable baseball can be. At this point I'm looking more at individual performances, and finding some joy in seeing several of our players progress, including The new acquisitions in AAA along with Chandler and Harrington... It's different than the last few years, where veteran retreads were leading our tanking program. There is some young legit talent here, and the games are more fun to watch. I'll seek the joy.
Let's face the facts gents. This slump has been due to us crapping the bed and playing far superior teams. Can't play like we have recently and expect anything different.
This will be another big challenge for Skenes. Does he succumb to the downward trend of the team or can he stand above it and, at least while he is in there, hold the Dodgers at bay?
Being from Southern California, I'm sure he's going to be extra pumped. I'm holding no illusions that we have a shot at the playoffs (Fangraphs has us at 3% despite players still referring to "what's at stake"--that Pirates ship has sailed into '25), but today's game is still one to get excited about.
The Pirates are struggling and the lineup has had holes in it since the beginning of the season. IKF has been a solid add, and BDLC has just added to the struggles. We also traded for 2 younger players - Yorke and Cook who hit the ground running at AAA. We have two young players on the active (Bae, Triolo) who have options remaining, and were not in the lineup last night. What are we waiting for?
This is the point where we have to throw everything we have at the wall to see what sticks. Our pitching has hit a few bumps in the road lately - that will correct itself, but our lineup is missing a few bats, and we need to push any buttons we can to try to make something happen. BTW, Yorke 22, is from LA and Cook 25, played college ball at Pepperdine.
What are we waiting for? Indeed, ask the big BC in the sky but all you’ll get is more double-talk. Bringing up Cook and Yorke for Bae and Triolo sounds like a fine idea but that still leaves holes in center and right, although those two might help in right. Taylor’s bringing nothing. Joe’s bringing nothing. Grandal’s bringing nothing.
None of those guys should be back next year but they still take roster spots and make outs pretty well. Why are they still here? Because the Pirates are still in the play off race? Seriously? That’s beyond a pipe dream, but even if true those guys are not contributing much of anything. Because the Pirates have nothing else? Try some of the guys who are doing well, or even fairly well, in Indy. Could they really be worse?
I really do think Grandal, Taylor, and Gonzalez will be put on release waivers over the next few weeks hoping someone will take them. Joe and Chapman most likely make it till the end of the year. Pirates definitely need a spark, and he is not in that clubhouse at this time
Yea but the deadline improvements are NOT the problem. Pitching is and I don’t recall you asking for trades or pitching pre deadline.
See my first post in this thread which says, “The offense has scored 4.75 runs per game over the last 8 games yet they lost 7 of them.
By way of contrast, In the first half, the pirates won 75% of games where they scored 4 runs or more.
They were shutout in one of those 8 games, meaning the other 7 they averaged 5.4 runs and still lost 6 of them. The fact is that the pitching has been the problem and frankly, the team was due for some regression there. It’s easy to take a sky is falling position when losing streaks happen and yes, Shelton gave some things away and defense has blown some stuff but they are scoring enough to win 75% of the time if the pitching comes back around.
This is baseball sometimes. Those calling for “prove you care” roster moves should look at the AAA bullpen and see how barren the cupboard is. Calls for Cook and Yorke and Henry Davis are fine, but another run a game isn’t going to make a difference if the pitching keeps this crap up.
Face it, the strength of the team has been on the mound and that’s what is failing them recently. Very few of you if any were calling for BC to make trades for pitchers pre deadline and the moves for hitting that he did make are not why they’ve lost 7 of the last 8.”
Not true. I said before the deadline that he needed to bolster the bullpen. And the fact is, the hitting would be better still if they weren't saddled with a bunch of zero bats, now including BDLC.
They’d be scoring still more if BC had acquired an OF who can hit and done something about the many dead weights — Grandal, Triolo, Bae, MAT. BC himself said there isn’t a specific formula, just get better. He had many spots that needed improvement and, other than finding a replacement for Nick, he didn’t try.
And, yeah, he totally dropped the ball on the bullpen, which clearly needed help.
Joe has been a helluva good investment by the Pirates, but he is struggling. Bae is not the answer in CF. Jared Triolo is a personal favorite of mine, but he needs to be a better hitter if he expects to stay at the MLB level. They both have options remaining so no harm, no foul if we exchange them for Yorke and Cook.
I’m with you on Triolo. My hope is he gets beyond this sophomore year and improves. I think that is a bit of an overstatement on Joe. He has been solid at times, but overall he is quite limited.
I think to start the season I'd want Keller, Skenes, Jones, Falter, and Ortiz (assuming that Oviedo isn't quite ready to return) and then Chandler and Harrington come up in May or when there is a need before then. If one of them go "all Jones" on us in ST, they've set the precedent. But we really can't be burning years of control for two extra weeks in April.
It will be strange going into an offseason with no need for a starter, but now we clearly have a need in the pen unless we re-sign Chapman. It's like the story of the boy and the dam--plug one hole and another opens.
I'm with you on this, also to hopefully build trade value in Ortiz and Falter. Yes some could end up in the pen, but I'd hold off on that until May/June. That way they can ship the rentals and promote all the prospects for a strong second half run.
It will be interesting to see how they handle that. It seems to have worked well for Mlod (when he's healthy) and maybe Burrows and/or Ashcraft can and should make similar transitions. Ortiz has already shown that ability. So yes, we may be okay. But if Bednar doesn't turn things around, I don't think we can go into '25 without a clear second option to close. I'd be all for bringing back Chapman if he'd sign at a slightly lower salary.
The offense has scored 4.75 runs per game over the last 8 games yet they lost 7 of them.
By way of contrast, In the first half, the pirates won 75% of games where they scored 4 runs or more.
They were shutout in one of those 8 games, meaning the other 7 they averaged 5.4 runs and still lost 6 of them. The fact is that the pitching has been the problem and frankly, the team was due for some regression there. It’s easy to take a sky is falling position when losing streaks happen and yes, Shelton gave some things away and defense has blown some stuff but they are scoring enough to win 75% of the time if the pitching comes back around.
This is baseball sometimes. Those calling for “prove you care” roster moves should look at the AAA bullpen and see how barren the cupboard is. Calls for Cook and Yorke and Henry Davis are fine, but another run a game isn’t going to make a difference if the pitching keeps this crap up.
Face it, the strength of the team has been on the mound and that’s what is failing them recently. Very few of you if any were calling for BC to make trades for pitchers pre deadline and the moves for hitting that he did make are not why they’ve lost 7 of the last 8.
SSS Cluster luck, as in bad luck, for Pirates pitching of late. Obviously they’ve made their fair share of bad pitches, but has it really been more than usual? Or has it been a case of good pitches getting hit by good hitters, such as the HR by Ohtani last night?
Unfortunately, the worm has turned at the most inopportune time.
They should send all their pitchers on an Illinois (IL) stint. Looks like it really helped Bubba!
The funny thing about the Illinois stint is that is not in Illinois! The more you know……
At this point, I don't care if they make the playoffs. Before spring training, I said on one of these comment sections that I had little hope for the season. The starting pitching didn't look so great, and we were relying on unproven offensive talent, and our starting catcher was out for the season. I didn't foresee Skenes and Jones doing what they've done. I thought Hayes and Davis would be better. I thought Jack would be at least what he was last season, and the bullpen would be a strength. It just goes to show you how unpredictable baseball can be. At this point I'm looking more at individual performances, and finding some joy in seeing several of our players progress, including The new acquisitions in AAA along with Chandler and Harrington... It's different than the last few years, where veteran retreads were leading our tanking program. There is some young legit talent here, and the games are more fun to watch. I'll seek the joy.
I salute you for seeking the joy. I wish I were capable of doing so.
Let's face the facts gents. This slump has been due to us crapping the bed and playing far superior teams. Can't play like we have recently and expect anything different.
This will be another big challenge for Skenes. Does he succumb to the downward trend of the team or can he stand above it and, at least while he is in there, hold the Dodgers at bay?
Being from Southern California, I'm sure he's going to be extra pumped. I'm holding no illusions that we have a shot at the playoffs (Fangraphs has us at 3% despite players still referring to "what's at stake"--that Pirates ship has sailed into '25), but today's game is still one to get excited about.
The Pirates are struggling and the lineup has had holes in it since the beginning of the season. IKF has been a solid add, and BDLC has just added to the struggles. We also traded for 2 younger players - Yorke and Cook who hit the ground running at AAA. We have two young players on the active (Bae, Triolo) who have options remaining, and were not in the lineup last night. What are we waiting for?
This is the point where we have to throw everything we have at the wall to see what sticks. Our pitching has hit a few bumps in the road lately - that will correct itself, but our lineup is missing a few bats, and we need to push any buttons we can to try to make something happen. BTW, Yorke 22, is from LA and Cook 25, played college ball at Pepperdine.
What are we waiting for? Indeed, ask the big BC in the sky but all you’ll get is more double-talk. Bringing up Cook and Yorke for Bae and Triolo sounds like a fine idea but that still leaves holes in center and right, although those two might help in right. Taylor’s bringing nothing. Joe’s bringing nothing. Grandal’s bringing nothing.
None of those guys should be back next year but they still take roster spots and make outs pretty well. Why are they still here? Because the Pirates are still in the play off race? Seriously? That’s beyond a pipe dream, but even if true those guys are not contributing much of anything. Because the Pirates have nothing else? Try some of the guys who are doing well, or even fairly well, in Indy. Could they really be worse?
I really do think Grandal, Taylor, and Gonzalez will be put on release waivers over the next few weeks hoping someone will take them. Joe and Chapman most likely make it till the end of the year. Pirates definitely need a spark, and he is not in that clubhouse at this time
Pirates since Cherington’s deadline “improvements”: 1-7.
Yea but the deadline improvements are NOT the problem. Pitching is and I don’t recall you asking for trades or pitching pre deadline.
See my first post in this thread which says, “The offense has scored 4.75 runs per game over the last 8 games yet they lost 7 of them.
By way of contrast, In the first half, the pirates won 75% of games where they scored 4 runs or more.
They were shutout in one of those 8 games, meaning the other 7 they averaged 5.4 runs and still lost 6 of them. The fact is that the pitching has been the problem and frankly, the team was due for some regression there. It’s easy to take a sky is falling position when losing streaks happen and yes, Shelton gave some things away and defense has blown some stuff but they are scoring enough to win 75% of the time if the pitching comes back around.
This is baseball sometimes. Those calling for “prove you care” roster moves should look at the AAA bullpen and see how barren the cupboard is. Calls for Cook and Yorke and Henry Davis are fine, but another run a game isn’t going to make a difference if the pitching keeps this crap up.
Face it, the strength of the team has been on the mound and that’s what is failing them recently. Very few of you if any were calling for BC to make trades for pitchers pre deadline and the moves for hitting that he did make are not why they’ve lost 7 of the last 8.”
Not true. I said before the deadline that he needed to bolster the bullpen. And the fact is, the hitting would be better still if they weren't saddled with a bunch of zero bats, now including BDLC.
They're scoring more runs since the acquisitions. It's the pitching. They needed more relief help.
They’d be scoring still more if BC had acquired an OF who can hit and done something about the many dead weights — Grandal, Triolo, Bae, MAT. BC himself said there isn’t a specific formula, just get better. He had many spots that needed improvement and, other than finding a replacement for Nick, he didn’t try.
And, yeah, he totally dropped the ball on the bullpen, which clearly needed help.
I agree.
I like the IKF trade. He is a Legit major leaguer, but I wasn’t that excited by BDLC and he has been worse than I anticipated.
I say release Joe, demote Bae, call up Yorke and Cook…
IKF was a smart acquisition because of the flexibility and competition it provides in planning for '25.
Joe has been a helluva good investment by the Pirates, but he is struggling. Bae is not the answer in CF. Jared Triolo is a personal favorite of mine, but he needs to be a better hitter if he expects to stay at the MLB level. They both have options remaining so no harm, no foul if we exchange them for Yorke and Cook.
Joe has been replacement level filler. IF they ever solve 1B Joe will be redundant.
I’m with you on Triolo. My hope is he gets beyond this sophomore year and improves. I think that is a bit of an overstatement on Joe. He has been solid at times, but overall he is quite limited.
Bubba announcing his presence with authority.
Please God let Skenes, Jones, Keller, and Chandler be healthy next season for my selfish pleasure.
At this rate, I wouldn’t mind some of the current upper minor arms going into the pen. Namely Ashcraft and Burrows.
But does he have a 911 with a quadriphonic blaupunkt?
2 of em', Nuke had a million dollar arm, Bubba's is a $3 million arm and he can already use his left for anything else.
No Falter, Harrington, or Ortiz? My Rotation by May 2025 would be Keller, Skenes, Jones, Harrington, and Chandler.
I think to start the season I'd want Keller, Skenes, Jones, Falter, and Ortiz (assuming that Oviedo isn't quite ready to return) and then Chandler and Harrington come up in May or when there is a need before then. If one of them go "all Jones" on us in ST, they've set the precedent. But we really can't be burning years of control for two extra weeks in April.
It will be strange going into an offseason with no need for a starter, but now we clearly have a need in the pen unless we re-sign Chapman. It's like the story of the boy and the dam--plug one hole and another opens.
I'm with you on this, also to hopefully build trade value in Ortiz and Falter. Yes some could end up in the pen, but I'd hold off on that until May/June. That way they can ship the rentals and promote all the prospects for a strong second half run.
They can actually use some of that starting depth in the pen too. But they’ll likely need more than just that, yeah.
It will be interesting to see how they handle that. It seems to have worked well for Mlod (when he's healthy) and maybe Burrows and/or Ashcraft can and should make similar transitions. Ortiz has already shown that ability. So yes, we may be okay. But if Bednar doesn't turn things around, I don't think we can go into '25 without a clear second option to close. I'd be all for bringing back Chapman if he'd sign at a slightly lower salary.
keepers in the pen next year Bednar, Chapman, Holderman, Nicolas
regaining health to join the pen in 2025 Oviedo, Mlodzinski, Moreta, Borucki
Do you think they will try to re-sign Chapman? I have my doubts.
But if somehow they open up the wallet to a 100+ payroll, then yes I want him on the list
I don’t because I think they spent the budget on IKF
also Falter and Ortiz become long men with two from that AAA group joining the rotation
No Oviedo?
Can’t count on him until July
Don’t think so. Didn’t he have TJ in November of 23?
The offense has scored 4.75 runs per game over the last 8 games yet they lost 7 of them.
By way of contrast, In the first half, the pirates won 75% of games where they scored 4 runs or more.
They were shutout in one of those 8 games, meaning the other 7 they averaged 5.4 runs and still lost 6 of them. The fact is that the pitching has been the problem and frankly, the team was due for some regression there. It’s easy to take a sky is falling position when losing streaks happen and yes, Shelton gave some things away and defense has blown some stuff but they are scoring enough to win 75% of the time if the pitching comes back around.
This is baseball sometimes. Those calling for “prove you care” roster moves should look at the AAA bullpen and see how barren the cupboard is. Calls for Cook and Yorke and Henry Davis are fine, but another run a game isn’t going to make a difference if the pitching keeps this crap up.
Face it, the strength of the team has been on the mound and that’s what is failing them recently. Very few of you if any were calling for BC to make trades for pitchers pre deadline and the moves for hitting that he did make are not why they’ve lost 7 of the last 8.
SSS Cluster luck, as in bad luck, for Pirates pitching of late. Obviously they’ve made their fair share of bad pitches, but has it really been more than usual? Or has it been a case of good pitches getting hit by good hitters, such as the HR by Ohtani last night?
Unfortunately, the worm has turned at the most inopportune time.