You would think that the best hitting prospects some scouts ever saw and a possible 80 on the hit tool with Wade Boggs hitting tool and Vlad Guerrero bat to ball skills wouldn’t slump much longer than a week😜
I would argue that every month with the exception of July has been a struggle for Termar, and I’m a big believer in the bat.
to each their own but it remains hilarious to me that fans use the most batshit draft-hype comp from *one* unnamed scout MLB Pipeline found as a reason to be disappointed in a kid who's been demonstrably better than Druw Jones, Cam Collier, and Elijah Green out of the same draft.
Calling his June performance, from a 20 yo in high-A, a "struggle" does certainly explain a lot.
I think it means the Pirates as a team have flattened vertical bat angle as more evidence has accumulated in favor of steeper vertical bat angle, which does sound, uh, suboptimal.
However, lotta smart teams down there with them (ATL, Tampa, Mil) and that 2018 Bucco club with the highest VBA in the sport wasn't exactly the '27 Yanks.
I am very surprised by this but I don’t follow other systems as much as I do the Pirates. You have to think all the disappointing offensive seasons has a lot to do with this. I would still like to see them add a young LH bat if Suwinski can’t figure things out
Like I said last night, Indy had him hitting 8th in the lineup. On top of that they haven’t had him play CF yet and that seems to be a place where the pirates can use a long term answer.
Noticed Cimillo at the curve game the other day, obviously a pretty big dude but he looked pretty good. He crushed what should've been an absolute bomb of a HR that went straight over the foul and was called a foul ball. Could this be a guy to get excited about? More so for the power than anything else
After the promotion, he started off 2-for-19. Since then he's 12-for-30. Overall has an 8:11 BB:K in AA, so he's not just hacking away. He's always been old for his levels, but at 24 now he's catching up. He's not eligible for R5 until after next season. I generally don't take college hitters too seriously until they do well in AA, now here he is.
Preller is getting exactly what he hoped from his deadline trades, Hoeing, Adam, Scott out of the pen. 5+ IP, 0 runs. I'm sure we'll see Martin who will shut us down too.....salt in the wound.
But, but, he had 18 HR's and 50+ RBI, after hitting 20+ HRs and 70+ RBI last season, that surely weren't just a product of opportunity, seeing as his OPS with RISP was under 700 OPS.
Their strategy/philosophy/approach, whatever you want to call it, to acquiring offensive talent is horribly misguided and needed to be junked years ago. Part of the reason I’ve turned against this front office is this. What they are doing offensively clearly isn’t working and they are at the point on octupling down on this crap. Stubbornness isn’t a virtue.
That and I think they need to just change their approach/thought process. I think they love guys like MAT and IKF because they view the floor as so high because of the defense. If you sign a guy like Winker and he struggles at the plate, the results are going to be horrific. When MAT struggles at the plate he’s .5 fWAR lol. I guess I just look at it different: when your owner is only willing to authorize a payroll of $85 MM I think you have to take risks like that.
Youre right on, and I see their logic with the MAT/IKF types. Feels like we need to find one thing we are good at improve guys at- adding loft, decreasing chase, hitting the low or high ball- so we have a mold of guys to pursue kinda like how we have seemed to target extension and good ride on FBs for pitchers
You have IKF, Tellez, and MAT on the books for a combined $15.2 MM. They’ve produced 2.1 fWAR cumulatively.
You could’ve signed Jesse Winker, Tommy Pham and Jurickson Profar for a combined $5.5 MM and they have produced a combined 5.5 fWAR oddly enough.
So, you don’t need to trade for IKF and BDLC. You save $10 MM to Bob’s wallet. And you gain 3.4 fWAR, plus you keep McAdoo, Shim and Forrester. Yet they seem allergic to signing guys like that, particularly a guy like Winker, probably because the risk variance is higher.
Also why I’m not always sympathetic to the “cheap” talking points. There’s plenty of players out there available for under $10 MM every offseason that produce. You just have to find them, and we can’t.
Yeah, I’m not saying I’m smarter. You don’t have to be Branch Rickey to see how the approach is flawed.
Yes, the example I gave is unrealistic. You aren’t hitting the jackpot signing all three of those guys. Yet we are somehow having the opposite level of luck acquiring bats. Or is it luck? Your OP raises that very question. “What were they thinking.”
I’m speaking more of the track record in free agency, and you cited two guys that they shelled out a bit more money for: Santana and Cutch. When you pay close to market value, you’re correct, your odds are better. Their track record is abysmal on the cheaper guys, but there’s still value to be found there, as I cited. When’s the last cheaper bat we had work out… Matt Joyce?
I’ll indulge the trades end of it as well. Bart and a short side platoon guy aren’t exactly Isaac Paredes. Glad they are both here, but if you aren’t going to spend money you have to do better than that in 5 years of a rebuild.
You and I have had this discussion before so I know you somewhat agree: they seem to have an issue with identifying hitting talent. The lack of track record of guys having success when they leave here speaks to that.
I'm concerned that after the likely shellacking we'll continue to receive in the next five games, that the team will just stay the course, pretending like they're still in it...giving playing time to guys who will clearly not be on the team next year and are no part of the future rather than taking a look at some of the other recent acquisitions who serve little point sticking around in AAA the rest of the year.
The Pirate game was ugly. Cruz given a rest and Reynolds and Hayes combine for a 1 for 8 night. So far, the only get at the trade deadline who has done anything for the Pirates is IKF. Yorke and Cook are at AAA which is not helping the Pirates, and BDLS has been in the Pirate lineup, but has struggled since being traded to the Pirates. We have a lineup geared toward depending upon stellar performances from the Rotation and the BP, but, the Rotation is limping and the BP has proven to be fairly unreliable lately. Hope we wake up soon!
Growing pains for Zander Mueth, who just turned 19 a month ago. Hopefully they look at the 56 IP at FCL and A and think it might be time to shut him down for the year. The first year as a professional is difficult, especially for HS draftee's, and there is no reason to think we need to push him quicker than he is ready to deliver. Possibly another start or two, and then some rest.
Someone else posted a thought the other day similar to mine…this feels in some ways to be setting up similar to the ‘collapsening’ year in 2012…there’s something there, it’s just missing the last few pieces and the staying power.
The “rotation limping” part is somewhat expected given how much of its strength was drawn from two guys that have never pitched a full season workload, and has also been exasperated a bit recently by long delays chasing starters.
Play it out, try to win every night, don’t blow up any arms chasing the pot of gold, have a smart offseason, and come back for more next spring with more and stronger arms and maybe another usable bat or two. NL, look out! 😊
Another 0/4 with 3 strikeouts for Johnson today. He has been in a tailspin since his OPS peaked over the .800 a week or so back.
holy shit an entire week?
You would think that the best hitting prospects some scouts ever saw and a possible 80 on the hit tool with Wade Boggs hitting tool and Vlad Guerrero bat to ball skills wouldn’t slump much longer than a week😜
I would argue that every month with the exception of July has been a struggle for Termar, and I’m a big believer in the bat.
to each their own but it remains hilarious to me that fans use the most batshit draft-hype comp from *one* unnamed scout MLB Pipeline found as a reason to be disappointed in a kid who's been demonstrably better than Druw Jones, Cam Collier, and Elijah Green out of the same draft.
Calling his June performance, from a 20 yo in high-A, a "struggle" does certainly explain a lot.
I'm still pretty skeptical of this stuff but if valid, this says a lot:
https://x.com/SwingGraphs/status/1821202739877089598
So we are one of the largest decreases in targeting middle middle pitches is what my 1 brain cell is telling me? Sounds not ideal lol
i don't think that's what this says.
I think it means the Pirates as a team have flattened vertical bat angle as more evidence has accumulated in favor of steeper vertical bat angle, which does sound, uh, suboptimal.
However, lotta smart teams down there with them (ATL, Tampa, Mil) and that 2018 Bucco club with the highest VBA in the sport wasn't exactly the '27 Yanks.
Thus my skepticism.
Interesting, thanks for clearing it up! Sounds like it might be one of the new hot trends in coming years
Jeffy and Murph are working on a 5000 word explainer now that we're all edumacated on fastball angles and shape.
I like trapezoids
BA just posted their mid-season farm system rankings. Had the Pirates 27th.
I am very surprised by this but I don’t follow other systems as much as I do the Pirates. You have to think all the disappointing offensive seasons has a lot to do with this. I would still like to see them add a young LH bat if Suwinski can’t figure things out
Stunned by this news.
WOOF.
When you're getting excited about Billy Cook, it might be due to having the 27th ranked farm.
Like I said last night, Indy had him hitting 8th in the lineup. On top of that they haven’t had him play CF yet and that seems to be a place where the pirates can use a long term answer.
Noticed Cimillo at the curve game the other day, obviously a pretty big dude but he looked pretty good. He crushed what should've been an absolute bomb of a HR that went straight over the foul and was called a foul ball. Could this be a guy to get excited about? More so for the power than anything else
After the promotion, he started off 2-for-19. Since then he's 12-for-30. Overall has an 8:11 BB:K in AA, so he's not just hacking away. He's always been old for his levels, but at 24 now he's catching up. He's not eligible for R5 until after next season. I generally don't take college hitters too seriously until they do well in AA, now here he is.
The should've been HR he hit was crushed. I've seen Martin and Castro destroy some balls and that 1 was equally impressive
Preller is getting exactly what he hoped from his deadline trades, Hoeing, Adam, Scott out of the pen. 5+ IP, 0 runs. I'm sure we'll see Martin who will shut us down too.....salt in the wound.
Edward De La Cruz
What tf were they thinking with this guy?
He looks like someone who will be playing overseas in 2 years.
man does this guy stink.
but most importantly, he was cheap.
But, but, he had 18 HR's and 50+ RBI, after hitting 20+ HRs and 70+ RBI last season, that surely weren't just a product of opportunity, seeing as his OPS with RISP was under 700 OPS.
Their strategy/philosophy/approach, whatever you want to call it, to acquiring offensive talent is horribly misguided and needed to be junked years ago. Part of the reason I’ve turned against this front office is this. What they are doing offensively clearly isn’t working and they are at the point on octupling down on this crap. Stubbornness isn’t a virtue.
They did well to remodernize the pitching development with dewey robinson, marin, etc. desperately need to do the same with the hitting
That and I think they need to just change their approach/thought process. I think they love guys like MAT and IKF because they view the floor as so high because of the defense. If you sign a guy like Winker and he struggles at the plate, the results are going to be horrific. When MAT struggles at the plate he’s .5 fWAR lol. I guess I just look at it different: when your owner is only willing to authorize a payroll of $85 MM I think you have to take risks like that.
Youre right on, and I see their logic with the MAT/IKF types. Feels like we need to find one thing we are good at improve guys at- adding loft, decreasing chase, hitting the low or high ball- so we have a mold of guys to pursue kinda like how we have seemed to target extension and good ride on FBs for pitchers
Example of what I’m talking about.
You have IKF, Tellez, and MAT on the books for a combined $15.2 MM. They’ve produced 2.1 fWAR cumulatively.
You could’ve signed Jesse Winker, Tommy Pham and Jurickson Profar for a combined $5.5 MM and they have produced a combined 5.5 fWAR oddly enough.
So, you don’t need to trade for IKF and BDLC. You save $10 MM to Bob’s wallet. And you gain 3.4 fWAR, plus you keep McAdoo, Shim and Forrester. Yet they seem allergic to signing guys like that, particularly a guy like Winker, probably because the risk variance is higher.
Also why I’m not always sympathetic to the “cheap” talking points. There’s plenty of players out there available for under $10 MM every offseason that produce. You just have to find them, and we can’t.
I was really hoping to avoid a dissertation of how posters are smarter than Cherington.
Hindsight is 20/20 - guys like Profar and Winker were absolutely terrible last season.
It's an open blog and this is to be expected.
Yeah, I’m not saying I’m smarter. You don’t have to be Branch Rickey to see how the approach is flawed.
Yes, the example I gave is unrealistic. You aren’t hitting the jackpot signing all three of those guys. Yet we are somehow having the opposite level of luck acquiring bats. Or is it luck? Your OP raises that very question. “What were they thinking.”
Joe, Cutch, Santana, and Bart as average or better bats over the past few years is frankly a *good* rate of success, IMO.
Acquire shitty players, expect shitty performances. Acquire better players, expect to pay higher prices.
I’m speaking more of the track record in free agency, and you cited two guys that they shelled out a bit more money for: Santana and Cutch. When you pay close to market value, you’re correct, your odds are better. Their track record is abysmal on the cheaper guys, but there’s still value to be found there, as I cited. When’s the last cheaper bat we had work out… Matt Joyce?
I’ll indulge the trades end of it as well. Bart and a short side platoon guy aren’t exactly Isaac Paredes. Glad they are both here, but if you aren’t going to spend money you have to do better than that in 5 years of a rebuild.
You and I have had this discussion before so I know you somewhat agree: they seem to have an issue with identifying hitting talent. The lack of track record of guys having success when they leave here speaks to that.
Olivares and De La Cruz certainly seem like the same player.
Since May 1st, Hayes has hit 3 doubles and 1 homer. Think on that for a while….
That sir, is quite depressing
Yep, it's quite different from "let this be...." from last year.
Someday we'll be able to have nice things, probably not anytime soon but someday
Yeah people have been saying that since 1979.
I'm concerned that after the likely shellacking we'll continue to receive in the next five games, that the team will just stay the course, pretending like they're still in it...giving playing time to guys who will clearly not be on the team next year and are no part of the future rather than taking a look at some of the other recent acquisitions who serve little point sticking around in AAA the rest of the year.
The Pirate game was ugly. Cruz given a rest and Reynolds and Hayes combine for a 1 for 8 night. So far, the only get at the trade deadline who has done anything for the Pirates is IKF. Yorke and Cook are at AAA which is not helping the Pirates, and BDLS has been in the Pirate lineup, but has struggled since being traded to the Pirates. We have a lineup geared toward depending upon stellar performances from the Rotation and the BP, but, the Rotation is limping and the BP has proven to be fairly unreliable lately. Hope we wake up soon!
Growing pains for Zander Mueth, who just turned 19 a month ago. Hopefully they look at the 56 IP at FCL and A and think it might be time to shut him down for the year. The first year as a professional is difficult, especially for HS draftee's, and there is no reason to think we need to push him quicker than he is ready to deliver. Possibly another start or two, and then some rest.
Someone else posted a thought the other day similar to mine…this feels in some ways to be setting up similar to the ‘collapsening’ year in 2012…there’s something there, it’s just missing the last few pieces and the staying power.
The “rotation limping” part is somewhat expected given how much of its strength was drawn from two guys that have never pitched a full season workload, and has also been exasperated a bit recently by long delays chasing starters.
Play it out, try to win every night, don’t blow up any arms chasing the pot of gold, have a smart offseason, and come back for more next spring with more and stronger arms and maybe another usable bat or two. NL, look out! 😊