Hi friends, changing subject from draft and comments trying to state DK is better than Shelton, they both have been dealt tough hand... This is about the HOF, I love Dave Parker but do folks on this site think he had a better career than Reggie Smith? I'm just curious, this post is looking for thoughts who recall both🤷♂️
I thought Parker’s place was in the hall of very good, but I’m glad he got in. I’m only old enuf to rem reggie smith with LAD. I was surprised how good his career numbers were when i looked him up. Potential reasons. Smith had only 2 top-5 MVP years (both 4th place). Parker had 5 and won an MVP. Parker also had 3 GG to Smith’s 1. WAR goes to Smith. 64 to 41.
I’m about to get a slew of downvotes, but I think Parker is pretty fringey as a HOF candidate. And honestly the Bucs as an org have some of the worst HOF selections…Lloyd Waner, Maz.
And no, he’s not better than Reggie Smith. Or Jimmy Wynn (who had an equally cool nickname to the Cobra). I’m still glad Parker got in though, he was a cool cat.
This is the classic peak value vs. career value discussion, which Bill James highlighted in his own discussions of the Hall. Parker from 1977-79 was one of the best, if not the best, player in the game and was recognized as such by the national media. No one ever mentioned Reggie Smith as the best player in baseball. Parker was also the superior defensive player, especially his arm.
Smith, however, like Dwight Evans, had a better career than Parker, because of skills we have learned to appreciate more as baseball analysis has advanced, especially the ability to control the strike zone and get on base. And the power was about even. Smith was an excellent and underrated player in his time.
I am biased, of course, but the way I look at it no one ever woke up in the morning and said I’ve got to go to the ballpark today and see Reggie Smith. They did that with Parker. Parker was larger than life, a total force of nature, and the best player in the game for three years.
There’s room in the HOF for both types of players: the shooting stars that burn brief and bright and those who are very good for a long time. Mighty short peak for Parker too.
Give me a break, homer 🤷♂️🤣, Reggie Smith had a rocket of an arm, he was a star that we went to see hence why i brought it it up, and here is a quote from Don Sutton before his fist fight with Garvey, gosh, but im also very biased🤣.... "All you hear about on our team is Steve Garvey the All-American boy. But Reggie Smith was the real MVP. We all know it . . . (Smith) has carried us the last two years.He is not a facade. He does not have the Madison Avenue image.”
So this prompted me to spend 10 minutes on the Baseball Reference pages of both guys. Smith’s career bWAR is 64.6, while Parker’s is 40.1. So no contest there. Parker’s career totals were seriously affected by his getting out of shape, hurting his knees, and mucking around with drugs, so he produced very little from 1981 through 1983, his age 30-32 seasons, when he should have been much more productive.
But ….. from 1977-79 Parker accumulated 21.2 bWAR, including a league-leading 7.0 in 1978, his MVP year. Smith’s highest single season mark was 6.7 (compared to 7.4 for Parker) and his best three-year stretch from 1969-71 was 17.2.
Speaking of MVP, Parker won the award, and in addition finished second twice, third once, and fifth once. Smith never finished higher than fourth, which he did twice.
As for defense, Parker dominated. He led the league in range factor per game three times, in putouts three times, and had an incredible 26 assists in 1977. Parker also lead the league in errors three times, no doubt due to his slinging the ball all over the field. Smith’s highest assist total was 15, a figure that Parker exceeded once and matched once. Plus, Smith ceased being a regular outfielder after his age 28 season, when Parker was in his prime.
Smith was an excellent player throughout his 17 year career. Parker was like a meteor, and then hung on. By the numbers he is a borderline Hall of Famer, but at his peak he was the best player in the game.
Seeing quite a bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Bucs’ pitcher-heavy selection board. “We need bats, this offense is historically awful,” etc. Not here per se.
You won’t find a bigger football fan than me, but people have got to turn off their football brains during baseball season. You always take BPA in the baseball draft. It takes too long for kids to make it to the show — if they make it at all, which most don’t — to consider drafting for need.
Yeah, I couldn't be happier with the first day from a philosophical perspective. I knew nothing about the latter three picks before reading about them afterwards but two pitchers with multiple plus pitches, _control_, and projection and then two college position players that have potential for power while not having big swing-and-miss concerns? I don't think we could have done better than that.
Plus, Hernandez seems like a great kid and sincerely excited about joining the Pirates after meeting Jones last year and hearing the positive things Jones said about the organization.
I like them, especially Cervantes (even though I really wanted a left handed power bat) I thought he was a top 10 pitching prospect in the draft. I thought he would be gone by the 2nd round. Getting Hernandez (the best talent in the draft) and Cervantes (in my opinion the 4th best RHP with ACE upside) is a major win for Horowitz.
I like both the college hitters, liked others better but nothing to complain about too much lol.
I'm guessing not as rare as two perfect games in ten days but when was the last time a (true) high school had two players selected in the top 10 (Hernandez and Carlson)?
And Corona even had a third player go in the 1st round. Evidently, they were the first HS to have two in the top 10 and also the first to have three in the top 50 (let alone top 32):
Never been done before. The last nine inning perfect game in the minors was 8 years ago. No major league team has thrown two in a season, much less in nine days. Probably gonna be awfully hard to research for the minors.
+2 All time.
Day 2 of the draft can provide many more answers than questions. Let's hope the pickings are good.
Murf Gray is the 10th Fresno State player drafted by the Pirates.
Jordan Luplow was also a 3rd rd pick in 2014. Other notable, Justin Wilson 5th rd 2008 and he's still pitching well for the BoSox.
Hi friends, changing subject from draft and comments trying to state DK is better than Shelton, they both have been dealt tough hand... This is about the HOF, I love Dave Parker but do folks on this site think he had a better career than Reggie Smith? I'm just curious, this post is looking for thoughts who recall both🤷♂️
I thought Parker’s place was in the hall of very good, but I’m glad he got in. I’m only old enuf to rem reggie smith with LAD. I was surprised how good his career numbers were when i looked him up. Potential reasons. Smith had only 2 top-5 MVP years (both 4th place). Parker had 5 and won an MVP. Parker also had 3 GG to Smith’s 1. WAR goes to Smith. 64 to 41.
Yeah, good post mate, that WAR difference is pretty signifigant though🤷♂️, anyways both great during that era👍
I’m about to get a slew of downvotes, but I think Parker is pretty fringey as a HOF candidate. And honestly the Bucs as an org have some of the worst HOF selections…Lloyd Waner, Maz.
And no, he’s not better than Reggie Smith. Or Jimmy Wynn (who had an equally cool nickname to the Cobra). I’m still glad Parker got in though, he was a cool cat.
This is the classic peak value vs. career value discussion, which Bill James highlighted in his own discussions of the Hall. Parker from 1977-79 was one of the best, if not the best, player in the game and was recognized as such by the national media. No one ever mentioned Reggie Smith as the best player in baseball. Parker was also the superior defensive player, especially his arm.
Smith, however, like Dwight Evans, had a better career than Parker, because of skills we have learned to appreciate more as baseball analysis has advanced, especially the ability to control the strike zone and get on base. And the power was about even. Smith was an excellent and underrated player in his time.
I am biased, of course, but the way I look at it no one ever woke up in the morning and said I’ve got to go to the ballpark today and see Reggie Smith. They did that with Parker. Parker was larger than life, a total force of nature, and the best player in the game for three years.
There’s room in the HOF for both types of players: the shooting stars that burn brief and bright and those who are very good for a long time. Mighty short peak for Parker too.
Give me a break, homer 🤷♂️🤣, Reggie Smith had a rocket of an arm, he was a star that we went to see hence why i brought it it up, and here is a quote from Don Sutton before his fist fight with Garvey, gosh, but im also very biased🤣.... "All you hear about on our team is Steve Garvey the All-American boy. But Reggie Smith was the real MVP. We all know it . . . (Smith) has carried us the last two years.He is not a facade. He does not have the Madison Avenue image.”
So this prompted me to spend 10 minutes on the Baseball Reference pages of both guys. Smith’s career bWAR is 64.6, while Parker’s is 40.1. So no contest there. Parker’s career totals were seriously affected by his getting out of shape, hurting his knees, and mucking around with drugs, so he produced very little from 1981 through 1983, his age 30-32 seasons, when he should have been much more productive.
But ….. from 1977-79 Parker accumulated 21.2 bWAR, including a league-leading 7.0 in 1978, his MVP year. Smith’s highest single season mark was 6.7 (compared to 7.4 for Parker) and his best three-year stretch from 1969-71 was 17.2.
Speaking of MVP, Parker won the award, and in addition finished second twice, third once, and fifth once. Smith never finished higher than fourth, which he did twice.
As for defense, Parker dominated. He led the league in range factor per game three times, in putouts three times, and had an incredible 26 assists in 1977. Parker also lead the league in errors three times, no doubt due to his slinging the ball all over the field. Smith’s highest assist total was 15, a figure that Parker exceeded once and matched once. Plus, Smith ceased being a regular outfielder after his age 28 season, when Parker was in his prime.
Smith was an excellent player throughout his 17 year career. Parker was like a meteor, and then hung on. By the numbers he is a borderline Hall of Famer, but at his peak he was the best player in the game.
Garvey was so overrated.
Everytime I see your name I think of Will Ferrell playing Harry Carey saying "Cubs weein, Cubs weein".
Hope our far east scout is having a great day and Ted is Weeinning.
Before my era. I was 12-13 when Bream Heard Round Da Burgh happened.
Seeing quite a bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Bucs’ pitcher-heavy selection board. “We need bats, this offense is historically awful,” etc. Not here per se.
You won’t find a bigger football fan than me, but people have got to turn off their football brains during baseball season. You always take BPA in the baseball draft. It takes too long for kids to make it to the show — if they make it at all, which most don’t — to consider drafting for need.
Yeah, I couldn't be happier with the first day from a philosophical perspective. I knew nothing about the latter three picks before reading about them afterwards but two pitchers with multiple plus pitches, _control_, and projection and then two college position players that have potential for power while not having big swing-and-miss concerns? I don't think we could have done better than that.
Plus, Hernandez seems like a great kid and sincerely excited about joining the Pirates after meeting Jones last year and hearing the positive things Jones said about the organization.
I like them, especially Cervantes (even though I really wanted a left handed power bat) I thought he was a top 10 pitching prospect in the draft. I thought he would be gone by the 2nd round. Getting Hernandez (the best talent in the draft) and Cervantes (in my opinion the 4th best RHP with ACE upside) is a major win for Horowitz.
I like both the college hitters, liked others better but nothing to complain about too much lol.
I'm guessing not as rare as two perfect games in ten days but when was the last time a (true) high school had two players selected in the top 10 (Hernandez and Carlson)?
Not sure it ever happened. The last time two were in the first round were Giolito and Fried.
And Corona even had a third player go in the 1st round. Evidently, they were the first HS to have two in the top 10 and also the first to have three in the top 50 (let alone top 32):
https://www.mlb.com/news/corona-high-school-makes-mlb-draft-history
They have a fourth who is a mid round talent type too. Ethan Bingman I think?
Grasshoppers pitched another perfect game this month? Must be a record
Probably not worth researching, but amazing all the same
Never been done before. The last nine inning perfect game in the minors was 8 years ago. No major league team has thrown two in a season, much less in nine days. Probably gonna be awfully hard to research for the minors.
Stuff like that is why baseball is the best game.