Things a little exacerbated by the death of a good friend and fellow Pirates fan... Not too many co-sufferers where I live. He had a vinyl recording of 1960 Game 7 as well as much other memorabilia. His childhood was filled with memories of 60s Bucs with young adulthood in the 70s glory days. My childhood was in the middle to end of the 70s glory days with my young adulthood in the 90s Leyland days. My kids have three years of Cutch and Hurdle ball and nothing else. They're starting to leave the fold. If only...
In terms of co-sufferers, I've been surprised at how often I run into Pirates fans here in East Tennessee, and a couple have even been about as obsessed as I am. I'm most surprised when it's a young person born not only after the glory of the '70s but even after the Leyland/Bonds/AVS era. The organization owes it to them, but also to us older folk who have stuck with them so long; Nutting doesn't seem to respect that responsibility.
I have always been a die-hard fan and also used to live in NE TN. My family is a weird mix of Pirate fans, Vols fans, and a few other things but we now live in Myrtle Beach (hence the MB 21). There are LOTS of Steeler fans and quite a few Buc fans that live here or pass through here but not a lot in my circle of acquaintances. I guess I just don't understand owning a team only to have a source of income. You can bring joy to people by philanthropy but you can also bring joy through the escapism of sports. To quash the hope of a young (or old) fan repeatedly is cruel although perhaps it should teach us to place our true hope on greater things (even eternal things).
I know it's a big if. If Reed's control/command increases with holding his mid 90's fastball, he's a top 100 prospect. His tunneling is a nightmare for hitters.
I'm not sure why they thought his arm could handle 178 innings in a season, especially throwing him heavy innings the second half of a meaningless season. The injury should be really no surprise. It is not the difference between 8 million and 11 million. Just pay him like you want him to be a Pirate.... and quit giving players extra motivation to leave here.
Is the expectation that a player will get about 40% of projected FA market value their first year of arb., 60% their second year, and 80% their third year?
If so, then Oviedo's offer definitely seems low. I'm thinking a team would jump at the chance to sign Oviedo for $3-4 MM. But perhaps, as NMR suggests, that doesn't apply to players coming back from injury.
I’m basing my comment on the comparison between what Pirates offered and what MLB TR said they would make. And of course, Bob’s frugality, which is well documented.
I guess I don't know what a major overpay looks like, but the Angels are kinda wack in terms of logic so maybe we can find a lane. Convince them former 1-1 picks are all the rage
The angels are wack. They should try to trade with Colorado. The Rockies are so weird, you could probably get Doyle really cheap, but they’d want bubba Chandler for Bryant.
The Rockies are probably the strangest organization. The Athletic did a great write up on this a few years back. Basically other GM’s were saying that they are really tough to trade with because they are so far out in left field. As such, the Bryant/Doyle comp is apt. I’ll also add, they seem so insular that it’s generally a good assumption that they value whatever players are already in their system.
Admittedly, I think we can accidentally find ~2 WAR with that platoon, but Ward gives both more certainty, more upside, and 2 years of arb control compared to Grichuk likely coming for one year
The arbitrator comes up with a number and whoever is the closest gets the win. If they think he's worth $990K, then it's the Pirates. There's also a chance that he played the Pirates in negotiations. Teams don't know the file number (and vice versa), so Oviedo may have been asking a ridiculous amount before filing. Just because we see them only $300K apart, doesn't mean that they were $300K apart in negotiating. He was projected at $1.5M, which really doesn't mean anything to the player or team, but those projections are usually close. He may have been asking $1.5M during the negotiations, only to drop it to a more realistic number when he filed so he wouldn't lose. It's also possible that if he was willing to take $1.15M from the start, they wouldn't be going to trial. That's one of the downsides to file and trial teams, which is basically everyone now. You can't work out what would end up being a small difference once both parties file.
Arbitrators work from precedent. I might have thought that there have been cases previously where the player missed the entire platform year due to injury. The Pirates number is a small raise on what Oviedo made last year and I guess his agent will try and use the 2023 year as the base case to argue for the higher number. Teams and agents have become quite sophisticated in terms of what will happen, which is why these numbers end up being so close.
sourcing saying Keller to the A´s for Jacob Wilson
Grichuk on the way... watch out LHP!
deets?
Misidentified a newsfeed author. Jumped the gun. Am I really that desperate for SOME type of decent signing?
We’re all desperate for any sign of life.
Things a little exacerbated by the death of a good friend and fellow Pirates fan... Not too many co-sufferers where I live. He had a vinyl recording of 1960 Game 7 as well as much other memorabilia. His childhood was filled with memories of 60s Bucs with young adulthood in the 70s glory days. My childhood was in the middle to end of the 70s glory days with my young adulthood in the 90s Leyland days. My kids have three years of Cutch and Hurdle ball and nothing else. They're starting to leave the fold. If only...
I'm sorry about the loss of your friend.
In terms of co-sufferers, I've been surprised at how often I run into Pirates fans here in East Tennessee, and a couple have even been about as obsessed as I am. I'm most surprised when it's a young person born not only after the glory of the '70s but even after the Leyland/Bonds/AVS era. The organization owes it to them, but also to us older folk who have stuck with them so long; Nutting doesn't seem to respect that responsibility.
I have always been a die-hard fan and also used to live in NE TN. My family is a weird mix of Pirate fans, Vols fans, and a few other things but we now live in Myrtle Beach (hence the MB 21). There are LOTS of Steeler fans and quite a few Buc fans that live here or pass through here but not a lot in my circle of acquaintances. I guess I just don't understand owning a team only to have a source of income. You can bring joy to people by philanthropy but you can also bring joy through the escapism of sports. To quash the hope of a young (or old) fan repeatedly is cruel although perhaps it should teach us to place our true hope on greater things (even eternal things).
gotcha, hear you there brother!
Hey man, even the pros get had. Just ask Jon Heyman and his “Arson Judge to the Giants” take.
Yeah, he got burned
BA dropped their Pirate breakouts and BoD darling Carlson Reed made the cut.
Did I fever dream Esmerlyn Valdez getting a bunch of love as a sleeper? I'll admit to losing interest is the uber young guys over the years.
I know it's a big if. If Reed's control/command increases with holding his mid 90's fastball, he's a top 100 prospect. His tunneling is a nightmare for hitters.
Numeric ranking aside, I don't really see a ton of separation in talent across minor league ball right now so that's not nearly a hot take in my mind.
Body, athleticism, and looseness reminds me so much of Tahnaj Thomas, loved that dude.
Especially for a guy that could add 10 to 15 pounds of good weight.
I'll admit I lean towards Aroldis because he's a DUDE but this guy probably stands better than half chance of being just as good.
Pirates offers to Oviedo and Santana are insulting in today’s MLB. Unfortunately, Bob finds it insulting to pay anyone market value.
Pirates trying to keep Oviedo essentially at league minimum for a 4th YOS. Smh, that could definitely get the Union's attention.......injury or not.
I'm not sure why they thought his arm could handle 178 innings in a season, especially throwing him heavy innings the second half of a meaningless season. The injury should be really no surprise. It is not the difference between 8 million and 11 million. Just pay him like you want him to be a Pirate.... and quit giving players extra motivation to leave here.
Is the expectation that a player will get about 40% of projected FA market value their first year of arb., 60% their second year, and 80% their third year?
If so, then Oviedo's offer definitely seems low. I'm thinking a team would jump at the chance to sign Oviedo for $3-4 MM. But perhaps, as NMR suggests, that doesn't apply to players coming back from injury.
Are they? I thought I'd read it standard not to give raises to dudes coming back from injury.
I’m basing my comment on the comparison between what Pirates offered and what MLB TR said they would make. And of course, Bob’s frugality, which is well documented.
Interesting, thanks buddy.
Ferguson - Oviedo piggyback for SP5 confirmed
By whom?
That’s irrelevant. 😂
AdminSky's remaining offseason wishlist:
1. Taylor Ward
2. Jose LeClerc
3. Another LHRP
4. AAAA Bullpen flyers for depth/upside
I don't think Ward is available, unless it's a major overpay. Otherwise all should be attainable.
I guess I don't know what a major overpay looks like, but the Angels are kinda wack in terms of logic so maybe we can find a lane. Convince them former 1-1 picks are all the rage
The angels are wack. They should try to trade with Colorado. The Rockies are so weird, you could probably get Doyle really cheap, but they’d want bubba Chandler for Bryant.
The Rockies are probably the strangest organization. The Athletic did a great write up on this a few years back. Basically other GM’s were saying that they are really tough to trade with because they are so far out in left field. As such, the Bryant/Doyle comp is apt. I’ll also add, they seem so insular that it’s generally a good assumption that they value whatever players are already in their system.
They're trying to win, maybe if they sign Santander.
I think we have the same wishlist!
Ward can still save us from the Grickuk - Suwinski platoon
If it’s Grichuk to platoon with Jack or Verdugo, I’ll take the former.
honestly grichuk + jack has some serious upside, im just terrified of it as a plan A
Idk, they kind of offset each other wrt to risk. I like the idea.
Admittedly, I think we can accidentally find ~2 WAR with that platoon, but Ward gives both more certainty, more upside, and 2 years of arb control compared to Grichuk likely coming for one year
Doubt Grichuk will sign for just a year.
Or to be the weak half of a platoon.
He's not worth anything other than being a weak half of a platoon. He matched up perfectly with Joc.
I guess I am skeptical we sign anyone for more than a year lol
We won't, which is why Grichuk isn't happening.
I usually agree with the cynicism but I'm happy to report this didn't age well! At least I hope...
Give Oviedo his money.
Can't imagine the arbitrator will go for $850K. Sounds like a Nuttin Special.
Nuttin is what he has continuously delivered.
The arbitrator comes up with a number and whoever is the closest gets the win. If they think he's worth $990K, then it's the Pirates. There's also a chance that he played the Pirates in negotiations. Teams don't know the file number (and vice versa), so Oviedo may have been asking a ridiculous amount before filing. Just because we see them only $300K apart, doesn't mean that they were $300K apart in negotiating. He was projected at $1.5M, which really doesn't mean anything to the player or team, but those projections are usually close. He may have been asking $1.5M during the negotiations, only to drop it to a more realistic number when he filed so he wouldn't lose. It's also possible that if he was willing to take $1.15M from the start, they wouldn't be going to trial. That's one of the downsides to file and trial teams, which is basically everyone now. You can't work out what would end up being a small difference once both parties file.
Arbitrators work from precedent. I might have thought that there have been cases previously where the player missed the entire platform year due to injury. The Pirates number is a small raise on what Oviedo made last year and I guess his agent will try and use the 2023 year as the base case to argue for the higher number. Teams and agents have become quite sophisticated in terms of what will happen, which is why these numbers end up being so close.
Welcome to the BoD squad!
Let’s Go Bucs!
Any clues on what he posted?!
I think he said Dave Parker was an illegitimate hall of famer.