Close, Celestino is taller and only bats right handed. Barrosa switch hits with fairly even splits, although he has shown more power from batting left handed which is still limited.
They both throw left handed though and Barrosa gets on base at a higher clip, probably cause he is 5'5".
If we sign Santana, Joe becomes a trade piece. Three teams jump out that could use him the Braves, as a short side platoon in left or depth. Padres, they lack outfielders in general. The D-Backs they only have 1 right hand hitting outfielder with a bunch of lefties.
Michael A Taylor would be a perfect pickup for this team, but unfortunately interest from other teams will put him out of Nuttings price range. His sudden power increase last year after years of looking like a light-hitting defense first type player is intriguing.
I’m convinced there’s a holding pattern in place until the remaining big name free agent pitchers come off of the board before BC goes after this mystery 3rd starter we’ve been hearing about for the past month. Most likely will be a guy on the outside looking in from a more competitive team’s pitching staff. Will probably come with years of control, which they so desperately care about, but also means said mystery pitcher probably won’t be very good either..
I wouldn’t be against a reunion with Santana. The Choi injury forced them into a spot to give him more starts than he probably should’ve gotten, but if we’re already committed to going with a platoon again at first next year I’d rather see Santana/Tellez than Joe/Tellez.
Just more steps backward unless they actually sign Taylor, which would at least make some sense so it probably won’t happen. Santana and Tellez for what, $8-10 million combined? Good grief, spend money on something worth having.
The projections system don’t like Taylor for a repeat of what he did last year, so my guess is that they are hoping he falls into the bargain bin. Unfortunately, the position player market is thin this year, so you’re probably looking at overpaying for even marginal upgrades beyond their comfort level.
The projection systems don’t like Taylor because he’s produced an 86 wRC+ over ten seasons. Even in his supposed big year in 2023, it was only 96 and came with an alarming K rate of 33.5%, which doesn’t help the argument that he’s suddenly learned to hit at age 32. A team with a chronically putrid offense doesn’t need that.
The Pirates don’t have the bats at the premium offensive positions to make up for offensive sinkholes elsewhere. In LF, RF and DH, they ranked 17th, 21st and 23rd in wRC+. Adding no-bat players to that is a formula for last place.
Don't get me wrong, I like Santana better than Rowdy, but we don't need both of them. Already have Cutch as a DH only guy & Joe as RF/1B against lefties. Lots of guys to jam into DH/1B/RF Platoons.
I don’t hate bringing Santana back as he’d be an upgrade over Tellez, but I’d hoped they’d aim higher. I’m also skeptical Santana does what he did last year, and they’ll probably be paying for what he did last year.
Any signing of Taylor or Santana will require offset trades to open up their positions on a full time basis...Otherwise neither will sign, the both of them aren't coming to the Pirates to play part time.
This could work but it would mean a couple of guys are out of jobs:
Taylor in CF.
Suwinski and Olivares as a platoon in RF.
Santana as the primary 1B with Tellez getting occasional starts there and at DH.
That would seem to leave Joe and Palacios out of jobs, which would be somewhat unfortunate as they showed some potential last year. Or they could keep those two and deal, say, two out of Bae, Peguero, Gonzales, and Triolo.
by all Statcast metrics Suwinski is out best hitter don't think he's platooning. Reynold is good but he doesn't "barrel" the ball like Suwinski because his LA is normally in the low teens vice the 20s.
He was worst on team against LHPs in 2022. He was 14 of 20 last year in wRC+. If he gets to league average he’s not worth platooning. Freddie freeman was awful against LHP then adjusted.
We have way bigger problems than the 100 ABs Suwinski faces LHP
I don't get the fascination with Palacios from all corners of Pirate internetdom. The guy's on base game is abysmal and he doesn't have the power to cover for it. No good tools aside from—maybe, if you buy it—the mythical clutch gene. I guess he has a good arm.
Is funny how we all have a guy we don’t get the fascination for. Mine is Mlod, between his mediocre control and hard contact I felt he was more lucky than good, it was his first go around so I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don’t see a backend guy there at all.
I'm not saying you are wrong on Mlodzinksi, but I will say I am pulling for the guy. While I was in Pirate's city, he was a guy that jumped out at me with a work ethic and bull dog mentality. He can't throw as hard as other guys, but other guys don't have what he has from the fight he seems to have him. You will never hear me say how good his stuff is, but you might hear me say I like the guy.
That's why I think all of this conversation about signing more FA's is just that - conversation. Tellez is being paid $3.2 mil for occasional starts and leftover DH? I think if anyone expressed any interest, Gonzales and Bae would already be gone. Peguero has way too much potential and Triolo already proved himself last year as a guy who can step in at 3 or 4 different positions and play them well, plus hit. TJ is will probably see AA this year and I expect he will be in MLB sometime in 2025. No need for NG or Bae.
The Pirates can sign a potential TOR arm in Trevor Bauer. Why not a one year deal with an option or two? Not like he’s in a position of power to negotiate a player friendly deal...
I've been strongly opposed to signing Bauer but his statement the other day sounded sincere and I no longer am completely opposed to giving him a chance to back up his words. He should go to a team that has a strong clubhouse culture including strong leadership from the manager and veterans. I'm not sure we're the right fit, but maybe.
I felt the same but have flipped a bit. I'd still want a team option after the first year of a 3 year deal. Something like $10 million with a $5 million buyout after year 1. If all goes well $15 million for years 2 and 3 with plenty of extra money in performance bonuses.
3 year $40 million with 1 year $15 million guaranteed.
Make the performance bonuses fairly reasonable to get him between $45 and $50 million total if he does well.
Was he ever convicted of anything? I saw Vick on TV for NFL. Young Big Ben? I'm sure their are tons of other examples who got way more chances. I'm with you. Roll the dice on him.
These in many ways were my thoughts exactly. I'm not 100% sure he was ever a huge clubhouse issue(he and Gerritt Cole were clearly not friends), it is more is he accepted enough and does he stay humble enough to earn some level of respect with his teammates. While I am not big on getting 'player' approval, in this case I could see meeting with Cutch and a few others to have direct dialog on the topic.
Are we allowed to have a legit, everyday first baseman? Bargain bin for 30 years. Maybe Santana/Tellez will work, there's enough power there, we'll see
Haha, right b-mac? I think its possible that we're just not allowed. Or Huntington and Cherington are the same person. Their names both end in "-ington". Thats pretty suspicious.
Plassmeyer isn’t even AAAA depth but if he ever could stay healthy he could be AAA depth. Santana & Taylor both had rebound seasons last year in their thirties so I’m not buying. I will talk myself into the next used Dodge they buy but I expect it will break or be traded off before I get attached.
I think the Pirates will need places on the 26 for pitching, and right now we have Position Players Delay, Davis, Hayes, Cruz, Peguero, Triolo, Tellez, Joe, Reynolds, Olivares, Suwinski, 'Cutch, and possibly Bae or Celestino. I see the Pirates breaking camp with no less than 13 pitchers, and possibly even 14. If 13 Pitchers, Bae goes North with the Pirates; if 14 Pitchers, neither Bae nor Celestino would break camp on the Active Roster. Therefore, Santana and Taylor are nothing more than conversation pieces.
I feel like our team is already too RHH. Santana is bad as a LHH and Taylor is only RH. Love the defense but prefer a guy like Gallo/Belt for 1B or Gallo/Meadows for OF
What exactly is the definition of a mid-range SP? A 2 or 3 inning/once through the lineup type of SP? Possibly somebody like Carmen Mlodzinski? Bailey Falter? Andre Jackson? Cody Bolton? Osvaldo Bido?
I guess for the Pirates it would be "Help Wanted - Mid-Range SP on a minor league contract with options remaining".
I don't know if Taylor gets signed, but I think it'll be either Taylor or Duval before midnight.
Question - who would you rather have?
Duvall but would still prefer a trade with the D-Backs for Jorge Barrosa.
I like Taylor's defense but don't think he'll hit for the money it'll take to get him.
I have no interest in a 5-5" kid that only had a 110 wRC+ in the PCL
He's fast, gets on base, elite defense in center field and would be relatively cheap to aquire.
Cons, he's small and has very little power.
isnt that Celistino?
Close, Celestino is taller and only bats right handed. Barrosa switch hits with fairly even splits, although he has shown more power from batting left handed which is still limited.
They both throw left handed though and Barrosa gets on base at a higher clip, probably cause he is 5'5".
I wouldnt hate duvall at all, is he any good at defense?
He's a pretty good glove but his range isn't what it use to be.
I like it
If we sign Santana, Joe becomes a trade piece. Three teams jump out that could use him the Braves, as a short side platoon in left or depth. Padres, they lack outfielders in general. The D-Backs they only have 1 right hand hitting outfielder with a bunch of lefties.
At least trading him would make more sense than trying to roster them all
Michael A Taylor would be a perfect pickup for this team, but unfortunately interest from other teams will put him out of Nuttings price range. His sudden power increase last year after years of looking like a light-hitting defense first type player is intriguing.
I’m convinced there’s a holding pattern in place until the remaining big name free agent pitchers come off of the board before BC goes after this mystery 3rd starter we’ve been hearing about for the past month. Most likely will be a guy on the outside looking in from a more competitive team’s pitching staff. Will probably come with years of control, which they so desperately care about, but also means said mystery pitcher probably won’t be very good either..
I wouldn’t be against a reunion with Santana. The Choi injury forced them into a spot to give him more starts than he probably should’ve gotten, but if we’re already committed to going with a platoon again at first next year I’d rather see Santana/Tellez than Joe/Tellez.
Just more steps backward unless they actually sign Taylor, which would at least make some sense so it probably won’t happen. Santana and Tellez for what, $8-10 million combined? Good grief, spend money on something worth having.
The projections system don’t like Taylor for a repeat of what he did last year, so my guess is that they are hoping he falls into the bargain bin. Unfortunately, the position player market is thin this year, so you’re probably looking at overpaying for even marginal upgrades beyond their comfort level.
The projection systems don’t like Taylor because he’s produced an 86 wRC+ over ten seasons. Even in his supposed big year in 2023, it was only 96 and came with an alarming K rate of 33.5%, which doesn’t help the argument that he’s suddenly learned to hit at age 32. A team with a chronically putrid offense doesn’t need that.
I'm OK with a plus defender in CF, if I have good bats in right and left as well as DH.
The Pirates don’t have the bats at the premium offensive positions to make up for offensive sinkholes elsewhere. In LF, RF and DH, they ranked 17th, 21st and 23rd in wRC+. Adding no-bat players to that is a formula for last place.
Don't get me wrong, I like Santana better than Rowdy, but we don't need both of them. Already have Cutch as a DH only guy & Joe as RF/1B against lefties. Lots of guys to jam into DH/1B/RF Platoons.
Could absolutely use a solid defensive CF though
I don’t hate bringing Santana back as he’d be an upgrade over Tellez, but I’d hoped they’d aim higher. I’m also skeptical Santana does what he did last year, and they’ll probably be paying for what he did last year.
You can't roster - Telez, Cutch, Joe, Santana, Taylor and Olivares.
Santana does not need a platoon @ 1b - switch hitter
Cutch full-time DH
Olivares short side platoon with Jack
Taylor CF
Joe - bench
Telez - bench
Not exactly the best way to maximize your roster.
Any signing of Taylor or Santana will require offset trades to open up their positions on a full time basis...Otherwise neither will sign, the both of them aren't coming to the Pirates to play part time.
This could work but it would mean a couple of guys are out of jobs:
Taylor in CF.
Suwinski and Olivares as a platoon in RF.
Santana as the primary 1B with Tellez getting occasional starts there and at DH.
That would seem to leave Joe and Palacios out of jobs, which would be somewhat unfortunate as they showed some potential last year. Or they could keep those two and deal, say, two out of Bae, Peguero, Gonzales, and Triolo.
by all Statcast metrics Suwinski is out best hitter don't think he's platooning. Reynold is good but he doesn't "barrel" the ball like Suwinski because his LA is normally in the low teens vice the 20s.
except almost literally every ounce of that production comes against RHP; what value does the average provide when none of it comes against lefties.
He was worst on team against LHPs in 2022. He was 14 of 20 last year in wRC+. If he gets to league average he’s not worth platooning. Freddie freeman was awful against LHP then adjusted.
We have way bigger problems than the 100 ABs Suwinski faces LHP
I don't get the fascination with Palacios from all corners of Pirate internetdom. The guy's on base game is abysmal and he doesn't have the power to cover for it. No good tools aside from—maybe, if you buy it—the mythical clutch gene. I guess he has a good arm.
Is funny how we all have a guy we don’t get the fascination for. Mine is Mlod, between his mediocre control and hard contact I felt he was more lucky than good, it was his first go around so I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don’t see a backend guy there at all.
I'm not saying you are wrong on Mlodzinksi, but I will say I am pulling for the guy. While I was in Pirate's city, he was a guy that jumped out at me with a work ethic and bull dog mentality. He can't throw as hard as other guys, but other guys don't have what he has from the fight he seems to have him. You will never hear me say how good his stuff is, but you might hear me say I like the guy.
That's why I think all of this conversation about signing more FA's is just that - conversation. Tellez is being paid $3.2 mil for occasional starts and leftover DH? I think if anyone expressed any interest, Gonzales and Bae would already be gone. Peguero has way too much potential and Triolo already proved himself last year as a guy who can step in at 3 or 4 different positions and play them well, plus hit. TJ is will probably see AA this year and I expect he will be in MLB sometime in 2025. No need for NG or Bae.
The Pirates can sign a potential TOR arm in Trevor Bauer. Why not a one year deal with an option or two? Not like he’s in a position of power to negotiate a player friendly deal...
My guess is Bauer wants to be out of the media spotlight for a year. Pittsburgh could be a nice fit.
I've been strongly opposed to signing Bauer but his statement the other day sounded sincere and I no longer am completely opposed to giving him a chance to back up his words. He should go to a team that has a strong clubhouse culture including strong leadership from the manager and veterans. I'm not sure we're the right fit, but maybe.
Read the statement and agree. And man when he threw the ball out to center field when getting yanked was epic. No pun intended.
I felt the same but have flipped a bit. I'd still want a team option after the first year of a 3 year deal. Something like $10 million with a $5 million buyout after year 1. If all goes well $15 million for years 2 and 3 with plenty of extra money in performance bonuses.
3 year $40 million with 1 year $15 million guaranteed.
Make the performance bonuses fairly reasonable to get him between $45 and $50 million total if he does well.
Was he ever convicted of anything? I saw Vick on TV for NFL. Young Big Ben? I'm sure their are tons of other examples who got way more chances. I'm with you. Roll the dice on him.
No convictions.
These in many ways were my thoughts exactly. I'm not 100% sure he was ever a huge clubhouse issue(he and Gerritt Cole were clearly not friends), it is more is he accepted enough and does he stay humble enough to earn some level of respect with his teammates. While I am not big on getting 'player' approval, in this case I could see meeting with Cutch and a few others to have direct dialog on the topic.
well said, gents.
Are we allowed to have a legit, everyday first baseman? Bargain bin for 30 years. Maybe Santana/Tellez will work, there's enough power there, we'll see
never one from the minors either
Ron Wright, Walter Young, Bing Country, Mason Martin
Never got the chance to see Eldred swing but he does have maybe the craziest non MLB stat line I've ever seen.
Haha, right b-mac? I think its possible that we're just not allowed. Or Huntington and Cherington are the same person. Their names both end in "-ington". Thats pretty suspicious.
b-mac-ington
For GM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSgGCOHuO1U
Plassmeyer isn’t even AAAA depth but if he ever could stay healthy he could be AAA depth. Santana & Taylor both had rebound seasons last year in their thirties so I’m not buying. I will talk myself into the next used Dodge they buy but I expect it will break or be traded off before I get attached.
I think the Pirates will need places on the 26 for pitching, and right now we have Position Players Delay, Davis, Hayes, Cruz, Peguero, Triolo, Tellez, Joe, Reynolds, Olivares, Suwinski, 'Cutch, and possibly Bae or Celestino. I see the Pirates breaking camp with no less than 13 pitchers, and possibly even 14. If 13 Pitchers, Bae goes North with the Pirates; if 14 Pitchers, neither Bae nor Celestino would break camp on the Active Roster. Therefore, Santana and Taylor are nothing more than conversation pieces.
From the 26-man roster, a team can have a maximum of 13 pitchers.
So, 14 pitchers ia no-go...
I feel like our team is already too RHH. Santana is bad as a LHH and Taylor is only RH. Love the defense but prefer a guy like Gallo/Belt for 1B or Gallo/Meadows for OF
What exactly is the definition of a mid-range SP? A 2 or 3 inning/once through the lineup type of SP? Possibly somebody like Carmen Mlodzinski? Bailey Falter? Andre Jackson? Cody Bolton? Osvaldo Bido?
I guess for the Pirates it would be "Help Wanted - Mid-Range SP on a minor league contract with options remaining".
I hope that list of pitchers isn't anyone's definition of mid-range SP ;).
Instead, I'm thinking someone like Lorenzen or Manaea and hoping for Stroman or Rodriguez.