Listened to the Q&A. Definitely seemed like they cut it short this year: about 37 minutes. Definitely a little hostility as a “sell the team” chant broke out at the beginning. Lots of interesting questions though, including one about IKF, and the questioner pointed out that he grades out poorly at short by the public defensive metrics. Ben and Shelty responded that the public metrics are noisy, and they have IKF as a solid SS.
IKF is positive 28 for DRS in his career at SS. That’s good.
Talked to a couple guys that went , they didn’t hear the chants or notice anything hostile.
I heard a fan ask cherington if he will make any more moves this off season. Cherington responded yes, the roster will change between now and spring training.
I use OAA for consistency and ease purposes, but I understand that there are other defensive metrics and that none of them are surefire.
There was a chant that started after, I believe, the first question. It was quite loud and stopped the proceedings. Greg Brown acknowledged the chant, stated people were welcome to express themselves, but to do some civilly and not be disruptive. He handled it well in my opinion, but I’ve always found that he is a class act. There was also numerous people with sell the team shirts in attendance, and a truck driving around with a pixelated sell the team billboard. Another questionnaire asked where Bob Nutting was and implored him to sell the team. Travis Williams said that Bob Nutting loves Pittsburgh and will not be selling the team. So, a few examples of what I was talking about.
You use OAA to support your narrative which is fine. When cherington says the metrics are noisy, this is what he’s referring to.
I guess if you’re going to pirates fest to find negativity and ugly ppl, you’ll find and hear what you want to see and hear.
If you’re attending the event for its intended purpose, you don’t notice the ugliness because it’s outweighed by meeting the ball players and having a good time.
I don’t have any narrative. I was genuinely curious, as we had a discussion on this very topic in this group. I believe you participated. If I had the agenda that I believe you’re suggesting, why would I have mentioned his response, which I found informative? If anything, I’d expect you to have appreciated the response as it agrees with what you’ve said here prior. But that doesn’t fit your agenda.
And it’s kind of hard to ignore the people behind you that are screaming, looking for it or not. And the only way I could’ve missed Greg Brown’s response was if I was wearing earplugs. So not sure what you’re getting at.
Overall I enjoyed the event, and picked up a nice grapefruit league spring training hoodie that was discounted to $40. They’re in the clubhouse store adjacent to the ballroom if anyone in here is interested and attending.
Tremendous story…nice touch with the grapefruit hoodie. The cherry on top is you saying how much you paid at a discount price and pointing folks in the direction of the shop.
It was a good deal, so why not let everyone at BoD take advantage?
One other tidbit for everyone: if you are going tomorrow and you have a Pirates debit card you can take advantage of season ticket holder areas even if you aren’t a season ticket holder. The lounge on the second floor has photos with the players (it was Blass, Capps and Kevin Young while I was up there), free calendars, refreshments and a raffle. Just show your debit card and ask for a green wrist band at the entrance.
Ben, I thought I told you.....no more Milb arms on the 40-man. You could have Shugart on a minors contract with a NRI if you just let him clear waivers. I know January is slow for you, but come on, stop making moves to pretend like you are actually working.....
The bizarre part is, they keep adding 40-man players who aren’t really prospects, but who clearly need significant time in AAA. Alvarado, Shugart and de Geus, at best, are long- or maybe medium-term projects. They’re gonna need a major league bullpen in April.
A pretty fair evaluation of Termarr Johnson as No. 6 among 2B Prospects. He'll play this year as a 21 year old at AA. Four of the Top 5 played in AA last year as 22 or 21 year olds. Travis Bazzana at No. 2 is more projection than accomplishment from the brief amount of work at A+ last year, but the other 4 ahead of TJ are solid second basemen.
Just over 49 years ago, my Flyers* whipped the Red Army team in an unforgettable game. A year or so later, I ran into Flyers defenseman Joe Watson at LL Bean where I worked at the time. I recounted in detail how he came rushing in from the off point to knock in a rebound. He got this huge smile, then grabbed and shook my hand. Well, his hand was the size of a shovel so what he really did was crush my hand. I had an almost identical experience the time HOF Flyer goalie Bernie Parent came into LLB. Hockey players are the best!
*Useta live in Philly, when Flyers rose to Stanley Cup excellence. To the extent I care about hockey anymore, Pens are now my team
One of the first things I did when the news broke was seeing when we hosted the Dodgers--who wouldn't want to see that collection of talent? Unfortunately, a midweek series in September just won't work for me.
The Dodgers will have only 2 position players on their roster under the age of 30, and can you name a single pitcher on their roster, outside of the 2 new Japanese kids, who is likely to pitch a full season?
Never would I have signed with the Dodgers if I were those 2 Japanese kids. Everyone talks about the Dodgers' great "track record with pitching." Their track record has been to destroy about 25 good pitchers in their primes over the past 4 decades.
I am willing to bet that in 2 or 3 years, the Dodgers will be irrelevant, saddled with big-money contracts for non-performing players. They are going to be paying a 39-year-old Mookie Betts 40 million dollars and a retired Ohtani just as much for a decade. Soon they will go from the envy of the league to the joke of the league. Mark my words.
Did they destroy pitchers or is pitching inherently dangerous and they break anyway? While it’s true many of their pitchers break because the organization chases spin and velocity, they have the means to overcome that. Kershaw eventually broke down but was a Hall of famer. Buehler already had a TJ surgery as he was getting to LAD. It’s possible they also change their methods in light of what the injuries their pitchers incurred.
Big contracts always end up somewhat onerous eventually. But Mookie is incredibly athletic and likely to age fairly gracefully. Same with Freeman compared to plodders like Miggy. Add to this the fact that their farm system has some potential big contributors in the farm system (Hope, de Paula, Rushing), that has broken in young players fairly wells
Bottom line: you’ve got some serious wishcasting in this post, champ. They’re gonna be a monster for the next 5 years anyway.
I was thinking more of Hersheiser, Valenzuela, Ramon Martinez, and so forth all the way back to Koufax. They have a sort of track record of pushing their pitchers past any reasonable limit: calling guys up at 22 and giving 250 innings. Hersheiser pitched 7 games in 2 post-season series... 5 games in the NLCS... 3 starts and 2 relief appearances... do I remember correctly? They let him pitch 11 innings the last game of the season when they were out of it. They had Koufax pitching 300+ innings with his arm falling off, black and blue, filled with cortisone, and soaking in ice every day.
I know that teams like the Rays do the same thing, but the Rays are not paying guys like Glasnow $30 million. They get what they can out of these max-effort guys while in pre-arb. and then ship them off to teams like the Dodgers.
I get all that. But the most recent of those examples was about a decade before the internet took hold. It’s not really recent or relevant data. One can’t say they broke Glasnow with overuse; he just can’t hold up to any kind of workload.
Not to mention that the Dodgers appear to have no limit to the amount of money they can and are willing to spend. And without a hard cap in place there is nothing stopping them from continuing to spend and spend some more.
The rest of the league is sort of backing off long-term, big-money deals to players in their early 30s. The Dodgers are full-speed ahead, in the old-school mode. I don't have a problem with it either. I just think that the rest of the league is right to be more cautious.
There are a number of teams looking to cut payroll and we should be exploring trades to take on payroll for a better chance to contend this year, similar to how we acquired A.J.
Ben has worked with Preller before, and either Cease or Arraez would be interesting additions, depending on the cost in prospects.
WRT Cease, we have talent in the rotation but with young arms and the inherent risk in pitching, I don't think we have enough innings covered to take us into the postseason (which is the goal, right?).
WRT Arraez, he doesn't really fit but pairing him with Horwitz at the top of the lineup could really work up the pitch counts of opposing starters.
Listened to the Q&A. Definitely seemed like they cut it short this year: about 37 minutes. Definitely a little hostility as a “sell the team” chant broke out at the beginning. Lots of interesting questions though, including one about IKF, and the questioner pointed out that he grades out poorly at short by the public defensive metrics. Ben and Shelty responded that the public metrics are noisy, and they have IKF as a solid SS.
i was struck by how athletic Bubba looks - dude is a specimen
i had always pictured him as type of guy with a pot belly, a thin mustache and a mullet
IKF is positive 28 for DRS in his career at SS. That’s good.
Talked to a couple guys that went , they didn’t hear the chants or notice anything hostile.
I heard a fan ask cherington if he will make any more moves this off season. Cherington responded yes, the roster will change between now and spring training.
I use OAA for consistency and ease purposes, but I understand that there are other defensive metrics and that none of them are surefire.
There was a chant that started after, I believe, the first question. It was quite loud and stopped the proceedings. Greg Brown acknowledged the chant, stated people were welcome to express themselves, but to do some civilly and not be disruptive. He handled it well in my opinion, but I’ve always found that he is a class act. There was also numerous people with sell the team shirts in attendance, and a truck driving around with a pixelated sell the team billboard. Another questionnaire asked where Bob Nutting was and implored him to sell the team. Travis Williams said that Bob Nutting loves Pittsburgh and will not be selling the team. So, a few examples of what I was talking about.
You use OAA to support your narrative which is fine. When cherington says the metrics are noisy, this is what he’s referring to.
I guess if you’re going to pirates fest to find negativity and ugly ppl, you’ll find and hear what you want to see and hear.
If you’re attending the event for its intended purpose, you don’t notice the ugliness because it’s outweighed by meeting the ball players and having a good time.
I don’t have any narrative. I was genuinely curious, as we had a discussion on this very topic in this group. I believe you participated. If I had the agenda that I believe you’re suggesting, why would I have mentioned his response, which I found informative? If anything, I’d expect you to have appreciated the response as it agrees with what you’ve said here prior. But that doesn’t fit your agenda.
And it’s kind of hard to ignore the people behind you that are screaming, looking for it or not. And the only way I could’ve missed Greg Brown’s response was if I was wearing earplugs. So not sure what you’re getting at.
Overall I enjoyed the event, and picked up a nice grapefruit league spring training hoodie that was discounted to $40. They’re in the clubhouse store adjacent to the ballroom if anyone in here is interested and attending.
Tremendous story…nice touch with the grapefruit hoodie. The cherry on top is you saying how much you paid at a discount price and pointing folks in the direction of the shop.
It was a good deal, so why not let everyone at BoD take advantage?
One other tidbit for everyone: if you are going tomorrow and you have a Pirates debit card you can take advantage of season ticket holder areas even if you aren’t a season ticket holder. The lounge on the second floor has photos with the players (it was Blass, Capps and Kevin Young while I was up there), free calendars, refreshments and a raffle. Just show your debit card and ask for a green wrist band at the entrance.
Love the chant...... my donation to Ourteamnothis.com working hard at PirateFest! Song of the Day "Under Pressure" by Queen!
Since he’s a well below avg hitter, “solid” doesn’t cut it.
Ben, I thought I told you.....no more Milb arms on the 40-man. You could have Shugart on a minors contract with a NRI if you just let him clear waivers. I know January is slow for you, but come on, stop making moves to pretend like you are actually working.....
The bizarre part is, they keep adding 40-man players who aren’t really prospects, but who clearly need significant time in AAA. Alvarado, Shugart and de Geus, at best, are long- or maybe medium-term projects. They’re gonna need a major league bullpen in April.
EX-ACT-LY!!!
A pretty fair evaluation of Termarr Johnson as No. 6 among 2B Prospects. He'll play this year as a 21 year old at AA. Four of the Top 5 played in AA last year as 22 or 21 year olds. Travis Bazzana at No. 2 is more projection than accomplishment from the brief amount of work at A+ last year, but the other 4 ahead of TJ are solid second basemen.
Dodgers are trying to become the 1970’s USSR Hockey team. Can’t wait for the Pirates to be the 1980 USA Hockey team.
# DuckTheFodgers
Just over 49 years ago, my Flyers* whipped the Red Army team in an unforgettable game. A year or so later, I ran into Flyers defenseman Joe Watson at LL Bean where I worked at the time. I recounted in detail how he came rushing in from the off point to knock in a rebound. He got this huge smile, then grabbed and shook my hand. Well, his hand was the size of a shovel so what he really did was crush my hand. I had an almost identical experience the time HOF Flyer goalie Bernie Parent came into LLB. Hockey players are the best!
*Useta live in Philly, when Flyers rose to Stanley Cup excellence. To the extent I care about hockey anymore, Pens are now my team
One of the first things I did when the news broke was seeing when we hosted the Dodgers--who wouldn't want to see that collection of talent? Unfortunately, a midweek series in September just won't work for me.
The Dodgers will have only 2 position players on their roster under the age of 30, and can you name a single pitcher on their roster, outside of the 2 new Japanese kids, who is likely to pitch a full season?
Never would I have signed with the Dodgers if I were those 2 Japanese kids. Everyone talks about the Dodgers' great "track record with pitching." Their track record has been to destroy about 25 good pitchers in their primes over the past 4 decades.
I am willing to bet that in 2 or 3 years, the Dodgers will be irrelevant, saddled with big-money contracts for non-performing players. They are going to be paying a 39-year-old Mookie Betts 40 million dollars and a retired Ohtani just as much for a decade. Soon they will go from the envy of the league to the joke of the league. Mark my words.
Hope springs eternal, AB.
Did they destroy pitchers or is pitching inherently dangerous and they break anyway? While it’s true many of their pitchers break because the organization chases spin and velocity, they have the means to overcome that. Kershaw eventually broke down but was a Hall of famer. Buehler already had a TJ surgery as he was getting to LAD. It’s possible they also change their methods in light of what the injuries their pitchers incurred.
Big contracts always end up somewhat onerous eventually. But Mookie is incredibly athletic and likely to age fairly gracefully. Same with Freeman compared to plodders like Miggy. Add to this the fact that their farm system has some potential big contributors in the farm system (Hope, de Paula, Rushing), that has broken in young players fairly wells
Bottom line: you’ve got some serious wishcasting in this post, champ. They’re gonna be a monster for the next 5 years anyway.
Arky...
It's people like you who harsh a good daydream.
Fair. But we bitch here about not spending money and this team is out there doing that and we still bitch? Pick a lane.
I was thinking more of Hersheiser, Valenzuela, Ramon Martinez, and so forth all the way back to Koufax. They have a sort of track record of pushing their pitchers past any reasonable limit: calling guys up at 22 and giving 250 innings. Hersheiser pitched 7 games in 2 post-season series... 5 games in the NLCS... 3 starts and 2 relief appearances... do I remember correctly? They let him pitch 11 innings the last game of the season when they were out of it. They had Koufax pitching 300+ innings with his arm falling off, black and blue, filled with cortisone, and soaking in ice every day.
I know that teams like the Rays do the same thing, but the Rays are not paying guys like Glasnow $30 million. They get what they can out of these max-effort guys while in pre-arb. and then ship them off to teams like the Dodgers.
I get all that. But the most recent of those examples was about a decade before the internet took hold. It’s not really recent or relevant data. One can’t say they broke Glasnow with overuse; he just can’t hold up to any kind of workload.
Not to mention that the Dodgers appear to have no limit to the amount of money they can and are willing to spend. And without a hard cap in place there is nothing stopping them from continuing to spend and spend some more.
Yep. Although it doesn’t bother me they spend this way at all. Other teams could have signed Freeman or Snell as well and didn’t.
The rest of the league is sort of backing off long-term, big-money deals to players in their early 30s. The Dodgers are full-speed ahead, in the old-school mode. I don't have a problem with it either. I just think that the rest of the league is right to be more cautious.
There are a number of teams looking to cut payroll and we should be exploring trades to take on payroll for a better chance to contend this year, similar to how we acquired A.J.
Ben has worked with Preller before, and either Cease or Arraez would be interesting additions, depending on the cost in prospects.
WRT Cease, we have talent in the rotation but with young arms and the inherent risk in pitching, I don't think we have enough innings covered to take us into the postseason (which is the goal, right?).
WRT Arraez, he doesn't really fit but pairing him with Horwitz at the top of the lineup could really work up the pitch counts of opposing starters.
Flags fly forever
Hate the team that tries to win, love the team that doesn’t or even try to…..ballad of a Pirates fan….
And a sad song it is!
I should write a sea-shanty about it.
Pass the Shugart!!
(one from left field here)
Who can believe you?
Who can believe you?
Let your mother pray.
Shugart!
Someone saved my life tonight, Shugart Bear....
Pour some Shugart on me.
Brown Shugart!
How come you dance so good?
No Shugart tonight in my coffee.
Shugart Pie-Honey Bunch... You know that I love you!