Our reasoning may or may not be the same, but, yeah. I see a FO that's much more rigid with arms than I'd hoped. They're sending some of their best arms to AAA, where they'll stay blocked by the likes of Falter and Heaney. Meanwhile, the bullpen is going to be loaded with guys who are just there because they have no options, or because the GM gave a guaranteed deal to the likes of Tim Mayza. And they're trying Ferguson and Mlod, both of whom are near-locks to be at least useful relievers, in a role that their teams already concluded didn't work for them when they were in the minors, and in which the current team doesn't need them.
I'm not sure the roster management could be any worse.
What I find amazing about the Mlod and Ferguson situations is that the decision regarding them is coming from an organization that appears to be doing an excellent job of developing their pitching prospects. I just didn't expect them to make this kind of dumb decision with their pitching.
It's bad enough that they think they can win with just pitching and no hitting, but now they seem to think that they don't need hitting or a bullpen. They're doing the same thing as with hitting, signing whatever guy is cheapest. SOME of these young arms need to pitch in relief. They obviously can't all start.
You can't convince me that neither Ashcraft nor Burrows is among their 13 best pitchers.
Yes. That is what makes the Heaney signing a bad deal (even though he is a good pitcher for the money). They need bullpen help... not starting pitching... bullpen, especially since they seem locked in on keeping every pitching prospect in the system locked in as a starter (even though a guy like Burrows would probably be much better out of the pen and ready to get leverage innings now).
Agree. Also, I don't know that it can be quantified but I wonder what kind of effect it has on a pitcher, knowing he cannot give up more than a run or two in an outing. Does it change how he pitches? Could it cause additional stress on him physically? What mental effect does it have? They're asking a lot from their starters if they expect to win under these conditions.
I think if a player on the 40-man gets injured while in major league camp, time on the IL counts as service time. Given the risk with pitchers, it's smart to option them as soon as you know they're not making the Opening Day roster.
I am no scout, but he looks like a major league shortstop as well. I am at least hoping Cruz and Griffin will play a couple years together in the majors.
Under the new Manfred Competitive Balance Principles, MLB can use AAA records to evaluate a team’s ownership. Or the GM. Or anything except the standings.
With Burrows and Ashcraft being optioned, I think it makes Mlodzinski a lock for the roster. I’m leaving Burrows at 10% because if there’s a SP injury, he could get the call. They traded for Strzelecki, so I really think he makes it. Wentz and Lawrence were waiver claims and are out of options. While Nicolas good numbers in that he has only allowed 2 hits and 1 unearned run in 6 innings, he has also walked 6 and struck out 5. Plus he has options, so I think he starts in AAA. Borucki, Rainey, and Ramirez are lurking if there’s an injury or they just decide they like them better than Wentz and Lawrence.
I think the options are a real consideration. Using Wentz as an example: he has not had any continues success in MLB however if they take Borucki over him and then Borucki fails then you likely don't have Wentz as plan B. If you start out with Wentz and decide to move on, ideally Borucki is there to take over. Keep in mind I am assuming the competition is close in this decision example. Bullpens more than any where else I think maintaining some level of depth (keep in mind we are not talking your best 2 or 3 late game pitchers) is very important as the season is a marathon and we will see a lot of end of bullpen pitchers due to injury/performance. This is not just a Pirate thing.
The situation is complicated by Cherington's constant accumulation of bullpen pieces without options. They will have to take advantage of the few players with options whom they have.
Personally I think most teams wrestle with this. They try to accumulate options for the bullpen and sometimes that means snagging some with or without options. Clearly if they don't have options in theory they have to impress more as they have to make the 25 man. Not sure BC is necessarily any worse or better than any other team (outside of Dodgers et al who can pay top tier for their entire bullpen).
I’d agree with this. Gotta take the best options that you think fit and hope it all sorts itself out. Especially when you’re running things on a shoestring.
Time to consider what we can get in trade for the commodity we have in great abundance and other teams are in great need. We have 2 LHSP's (Bailey Falter, Andrew Heaney) and at least 2 RHSP's (Braxton Ashcraft and Mike Burrows). Falter started 28 games for the Pirates last year, 1.7 fWAR, and Heaney started 31 games for Texas last year, 2.2 fWAR. Ashcraft and Burrows are young and ready to begin their MLB careers.
The Yankees desperately need a SP. Do we take a gamble on Spencer Jones, 6'6" 225 CF with excellent EB power, but Strikes out way too much. In AA last year he had 30 doubles, 6 triples, 17 HR, 78 RBI from the left side in the Eastern League. Problem was the 54 BB, 200 K in 544 PA. With the OF being solid for 2025 we could have Jones at AAA and ready to be in the Pirate OF in 2026. With Judge, Bellinger, and Jasson Dominguez in the Yankees 2025 OF, Jones is blocked for at least 2 or 3 years. They would not want to get off of him, but they have to work a trade with someone for a SP.
I don’t think the Yankees would ask for Chandler because A) Bubba isn’t quite ready and wouldn’t impact their MLB rotation much in 2025 and B) Chandler is worth more than Jones.
Your overall point actually has me thinking they should keep drafting arms as it’s the one thing they seem to be decent at developing. Build it up and flip the excess for bats.
Agreed. There’s a tipping point for K% in the big leagues where you can get away with being a productive player. It’s around 30%. Jones was at 37%…in AA. I want no part of that, no matter what else he can do.
This. I'm guessing they'd want Chandler for Spencer. But I agree they should look to trade from their depth. I'm thinking at this point they're going to do like Tampa or Cleveland has done. Hold on to them until they get blown away by an offer, or until they're in a walk year. Ortiz had a great year but he was a swing man, which is why they had to add prospects just to get a 27yo OBP 1B. And they may as well. It's a drag not being in trades, but if you can't get good value back, may as well keep the value you have.
I agree with Arky, when you read their current options they have Stroman already at 4 and their #5 options don't seem like they would jump at the soft tossing lefties or pitchers with no real MLB track record. I do agree that SP is an area of depth for trades that would work.
IKF, and possibly Heaney for Spencer Jones? They eat the salaries. Negotiate from there if they are interested in getting serious. If I'm the Yankees, I want Braxton Ashcraft and his big arm for Jones
He's still with the Pirates, but I figure that is BC CYA in that we traded for him and now do not have anywhere to play him. Nick Yorke is more of the same.
That is the definition of wanting and trading for depth options not to just put them in the starting lineup at the major league level. If they were slam dunk starters Pirates would have needed to give up more in the trades with all apologies to the rabid fan clubs. We are wanting Yorke to dispose Nick because of Yorke's success in AAA which Nick also had. Perfect world they would both get playing time but I am not sure there is room for both with Triolo/Frazier.
Just the eye test from a few games of seeing Yorke, I am not a big fan of his defense, but a big fan of his bat. His bat is almost as good as I hoped Nick Gonzales would be. I don't know if Nick G has changed his approach, but not seeing the power I was hoping for.
I agree, but looking at only 2025 to me age is irrelevant. Who might produce the most this year... may be Nick or could be Yorke or somebody else. But to me Nick proving he was a mediocre 2B (who showed growth year to year - more to come?) makes him a better bet to start the year. I truly wish (stated elsewhere) Yorke could get MLB at bats as well as his bat seems ready but is it any more ready than Hank , Nick, and others that are still trying to get full footing? No easy answer but Mel and I have been going back and forth a lot and I just don't throwing Nick out just because of age and who might be better in 2027 (Nick would be 28 - prime year?)
I commented above that Tri would be who I think the Yankees would want for Spencer Jones. He has saved the Pirates the last 2 years with his glove. If he was traded, I would have Peguero as the UT IF - I know he has played both SS and 2B, but not sure about 3B.
I know NG is popular, and Yorke is not ready to take 2B just yet. I look to the future and see TJ in '26 and I would start prepping for that movement this year with Peguero at 2B opposite IKF and Yorke getting some 2B as Peguero goes to SS and IKF gets a day off here and there. Yorke also gets some action at 1B. Trade deadline jetison IKF - move Peguero to SS and Yorke to 2B. When ready, TJ is at 2B. I do not see NG as a SS - Peguero we already know he can play the position based on his time with the Pirates in 2023 as a 22 year old at both SS and 2B
I think your second paragraph clearly states our differences. With Skenes I don't want to plan for what happens in 26(optimistic for TJ) or 27. Who is the best option for 2B this year? To start the year I think that is NG but he does not have a 6 month leash. Players can be traded to fill that SS future need maybe from a SP surplus so let's not overthink that. Who is best for this year is what I want and right now I think that is Nick. Personally I don't think NG is any more liked than Yorke or others, the point I keep over stating is that Nick has at least established himself as a 'meh' second baseman and has made it through the initial MLB growing pains. Yorke may or may not have those growing pains but he didn't crush AAA any more than Nick did. I truly don't get your fascination with Peguero (truly like the person). He was below IKF level of hitting last year but at the AAA level, that does not deserve a MLB shot.
Why do you want to start a fight? Just because the BCFC president has turned his back on America doesn’t mean that Cook is vulnerable! As the treasurer of the club (feel free to send all your valuables) I’m still here to defend him!!!
I felt comfortable with such responsible and capable hands holding down the fort during my hiatus. You are earning an extra plate at this weeks club meeting!
Thank you ! I think Yean was sent down yesterday.
Oh, yeah, I got that one backwards.
Oviedo to the IL and all starter depth optioned has me back to some shade of pissed over this clusterf*ck of a bullpen.
Our reasoning may or may not be the same, but, yeah. I see a FO that's much more rigid with arms than I'd hoped. They're sending some of their best arms to AAA, where they'll stay blocked by the likes of Falter and Heaney. Meanwhile, the bullpen is going to be loaded with guys who are just there because they have no options, or because the GM gave a guaranteed deal to the likes of Tim Mayza. And they're trying Ferguson and Mlod, both of whom are near-locks to be at least useful relievers, in a role that their teams already concluded didn't work for them when they were in the minors, and in which the current team doesn't need them.
I'm not sure the roster management could be any worse.
What I find amazing about the Mlod and Ferguson situations is that the decision regarding them is coming from an organization that appears to be doing an excellent job of developing their pitching prospects. I just didn't expect them to make this kind of dumb decision with their pitching.
It's bad enough that they think they can win with just pitching and no hitting, but now they seem to think that they don't need hitting or a bullpen. They're doing the same thing as with hitting, signing whatever guy is cheapest. SOME of these young arms need to pitch in relief. They obviously can't all start.
You can't convince me that neither Ashcraft nor Burrows is among their 13 best pitchers.
Yes. That is what makes the Heaney signing a bad deal (even though he is a good pitcher for the money). They need bullpen help... not starting pitching... bullpen, especially since they seem locked in on keeping every pitching prospect in the system locked in as a starter (even though a guy like Burrows would probably be much better out of the pen and ready to get leverage innings now).
Agree. Also, I don't know that it can be quantified but I wonder what kind of effect it has on a pitcher, knowing he cannot give up more than a run or two in an outing. Does it change how he pitches? Could it cause additional stress on him physically? What mental effect does it have? They're asking a lot from their starters if they expect to win under these conditions.
Always wondered about that.
I agree with every word of this, very well said.
Mlb free game has a few former pirates organizations pitchers Woodford and Cruz in one and Bido in another.
Interesting that they optioned the 2 prospects on the 40 and kept Harrington in major league camp.
I think if a player on the 40-man gets injured while in major league camp, time on the IL counts as service time. Given the risk with pitchers, it's smart to option them as soon as you know they're not making the Opening Day roster.
Good point, I didn’t consider that.
Harrington hasn’t pitched in 11 days.
He’s pitching here at PC
Good
I’ll be at Pirates City today, if anyone else will be there
You have me missing Bradenton and I've only been gone 2 days,
I’ve been gone an hour and I’d as soon turn back, but the pilot won’t listen.
If they have a roster (on the table at the entrance) dated after 3/3, please lmk.
I’ll let you know.
KG’s catch yesterday is the headline in BA’s daily email.
Has he moved around between short and center? I hope he stays on the grass.
SS and CF in MiL camp, just CF with the Pirates.
My preference is for him to play both. At the same time.
Which non roster players are still in camp?
Quite a few.
Borucki
Fulmer
Harrington
Rainey
Yohan Ramirez
Burch Smith and Sean Sullivan, both of whom were shut down
Stratton
Yean
Gutierrez
Hall
Alika
Gorski
Bryce Johnson
Solak
Stewart
I'm in on both positions for now but it sure smells like he will end up in CF.
I am no scout, but he looks like a major league shortstop as well. I am at least hoping Cruz and Griffin will play a couple years together in the majors.
He might actually be fast enough to do that. With the arm
I do believe our AAA team will be pretty good this year.
Under the new Manfred Competitive Balance Principles, MLB can use AAA records to evaluate a team’s ownership. Or the GM. Or anything except the standings.
Bullpen Battles. Original. Now
11. Carmen Mlodzinski…90%…100%
12. Pete Strzelecki……….60%…..70%
13.Joey Wentz…………….50%……50%
———————————————————
14. Justin Lawrence……..n/a…….40%
15. Kyle Nicolas……………30%…..30%
16. Ryan Borucki………….10%……10%
17. Tanner Rainey…………10%……10%
18. Michael Burrows…….20%…..10%
19. Yohan Ramirez…………5%…….5%
20. Carson Fulmer…………5%…….5%
21. Braxton Ashcraft…….10%…….0%
22. Chase Shugart……….10%…….0%
With Burrows and Ashcraft being optioned, I think it makes Mlodzinski a lock for the roster. I’m leaving Burrows at 10% because if there’s a SP injury, he could get the call. They traded for Strzelecki, so I really think he makes it. Wentz and Lawrence were waiver claims and are out of options. While Nicolas good numbers in that he has only allowed 2 hits and 1 unearned run in 6 innings, he has also walked 6 and struck out 5. Plus he has options, so I think he starts in AAA. Borucki, Rainey, and Ramirez are lurking if there’s an injury or they just decide they like them better than Wentz and Lawrence.
Lawrence is more like 60%. His escape from Coors will play well.
I’d forgotten until I got reminded yesterday—career ERA is 6.96 at Coors, 3.86 on the road. Crazy.
A big difference, but I was hoping for better than 3.86 on the road.
I think the options are a real consideration. Using Wentz as an example: he has not had any continues success in MLB however if they take Borucki over him and then Borucki fails then you likely don't have Wentz as plan B. If you start out with Wentz and decide to move on, ideally Borucki is there to take over. Keep in mind I am assuming the competition is close in this decision example. Bullpens more than any where else I think maintaining some level of depth (keep in mind we are not talking your best 2 or 3 late game pitchers) is very important as the season is a marathon and we will see a lot of end of bullpen pitchers due to injury/performance. This is not just a Pirate thing.
The situation is complicated by Cherington's constant accumulation of bullpen pieces without options. They will have to take advantage of the few players with options whom they have.
Personally I think most teams wrestle with this. They try to accumulate options for the bullpen and sometimes that means snagging some with or without options. Clearly if they don't have options in theory they have to impress more as they have to make the 25 man. Not sure BC is necessarily any worse or better than any other team (outside of Dodgers et al who can pay top tier for their entire bullpen).
I’d agree with this. Gotta take the best options that you think fit and hope it all sorts itself out. Especially when you’re running things on a shoestring.
Time to consider what we can get in trade for the commodity we have in great abundance and other teams are in great need. We have 2 LHSP's (Bailey Falter, Andrew Heaney) and at least 2 RHSP's (Braxton Ashcraft and Mike Burrows). Falter started 28 games for the Pirates last year, 1.7 fWAR, and Heaney started 31 games for Texas last year, 2.2 fWAR. Ashcraft and Burrows are young and ready to begin their MLB careers.
The Yankees desperately need a SP. Do we take a gamble on Spencer Jones, 6'6" 225 CF with excellent EB power, but Strikes out way too much. In AA last year he had 30 doubles, 6 triples, 17 HR, 78 RBI from the left side in the Eastern League. Problem was the 54 BB, 200 K in 544 PA. With the OF being solid for 2025 we could have Jones at AAA and ready to be in the Pirate OF in 2026. With Judge, Bellinger, and Jasson Dominguez in the Yankees 2025 OF, Jones is blocked for at least 2 or 3 years. They would not want to get off of him, but they have to work a trade with someone for a SP.
I’d do that in a heartbeat. I doubt they would. But they’d think about it.
I have to think they’d aim higher than Falter/Heaney. Which means the only actual option is probably Keller. I’d do Keller for Dominguez.
I don’t think the Yankees would ask for Chandler because A) Bubba isn’t quite ready and wouldn’t impact their MLB rotation much in 2025 and B) Chandler is worth more than Jones.
Your overall point actually has me thinking they should keep drafting arms as it’s the one thing they seem to be decent at developing. Build it up and flip the excess for bats.
Chandler is worth a lot more than Jones.
Jones is fading fast as a prospect. Would a take him.. sure, but he seems to have hit the AA wall which is THE testing ground.
Agreed. There’s a tipping point for K% in the big leagues where you can get away with being a productive player. It’s around 30%. Jones was at 37%…in AA. I want no part of that, no matter what else he can do.
This. I'm guessing they'd want Chandler for Spencer. But I agree they should look to trade from their depth. I'm thinking at this point they're going to do like Tampa or Cleveland has done. Hold on to them until they get blown away by an offer, or until they're in a walk year. Ortiz had a great year but he was a swing man, which is why they had to add prospects just to get a 27yo OBP 1B. And they may as well. It's a drag not being in trades, but if you can't get good value back, may as well keep the value you have.
I like Lombard better than Dominquez
I agree with Arky, when you read their current options they have Stroman already at 4 and their #5 options don't seem like they would jump at the soft tossing lefties or pitchers with no real MLB track record. I do agree that SP is an area of depth for trades that would work.
Yep. I doubt they’d do that for Keller-although maybe they would considering he’s on a team friendly extension for a normal functioning MLB team.
I think they´d be interested in IKF too
The Yankees had IKF for 2 seasons, second season didn't go well and that was 2 years ago.
IKF, and possibly Heaney for Spencer Jones? They eat the salaries. Negotiate from there if they are interested in getting serious. If I'm the Yankees, I want Braxton Ashcraft and his big arm for Jones
Why?
Billy Cook Fan Club checking in from across the pond! Haven’t been as active with time change and all but the BCFC is as strong as ever
He's still with the Pirates, but I figure that is BC CYA in that we traded for him and now do not have anywhere to play him. Nick Yorke is more of the same.
That is the definition of wanting and trading for depth options not to just put them in the starting lineup at the major league level. If they were slam dunk starters Pirates would have needed to give up more in the trades with all apologies to the rabid fan clubs. We are wanting Yorke to dispose Nick because of Yorke's success in AAA which Nick also had. Perfect world they would both get playing time but I am not sure there is room for both with Triolo/Frazier.
The only major difference between the Nick's is age, Yorke is about to turn 23, Gonzales turns 26 a month later.
I think Yorke might be a better hitter. And think Nick G is a better fielder and base runner.
I'd agree with that, don't think there's a large separation between their offense and defense though, both could still improve in each.
Just the eye test from a few games of seeing Yorke, I am not a big fan of his defense, but a big fan of his bat. His bat is almost as good as I hoped Nick Gonzales would be. I don't know if Nick G has changed his approach, but not seeing the power I was hoping for.
I agree, but looking at only 2025 to me age is irrelevant. Who might produce the most this year... may be Nick or could be Yorke or somebody else. But to me Nick proving he was a mediocre 2B (who showed growth year to year - more to come?) makes him a better bet to start the year. I truly wish (stated elsewhere) Yorke could get MLB at bats as well as his bat seems ready but is it any more ready than Hank , Nick, and others that are still trying to get full footing? No easy answer but Mel and I have been going back and forth a lot and I just don't throwing Nick out just because of age and who might be better in 2027 (Nick would be 28 - prime year?)
Yep, making the Frazier signing more puzzling. The at bats he'll get are just taking them away from the younger guys who need them.
I commented above that Tri would be who I think the Yankees would want for Spencer Jones. He has saved the Pirates the last 2 years with his glove. If he was traded, I would have Peguero as the UT IF - I know he has played both SS and 2B, but not sure about 3B.
I know NG is popular, and Yorke is not ready to take 2B just yet. I look to the future and see TJ in '26 and I would start prepping for that movement this year with Peguero at 2B opposite IKF and Yorke getting some 2B as Peguero goes to SS and IKF gets a day off here and there. Yorke also gets some action at 1B. Trade deadline jetison IKF - move Peguero to SS and Yorke to 2B. When ready, TJ is at 2B. I do not see NG as a SS - Peguero we already know he can play the position based on his time with the Pirates in 2023 as a 22 year old at both SS and 2B
I think your second paragraph clearly states our differences. With Skenes I don't want to plan for what happens in 26(optimistic for TJ) or 27. Who is the best option for 2B this year? To start the year I think that is NG but he does not have a 6 month leash. Players can be traded to fill that SS future need maybe from a SP surplus so let's not overthink that. Who is best for this year is what I want and right now I think that is Nick. Personally I don't think NG is any more liked than Yorke or others, the point I keep over stating is that Nick has at least established himself as a 'meh' second baseman and has made it through the initial MLB growing pains. Yorke may or may not have those growing pains but he didn't crush AAA any more than Nick did. I truly don't get your fascination with Peguero (truly like the person). He was below IKF level of hitting last year but at the AAA level, that does not deserve a MLB shot.
Why do you want to start a fight? Just because the BCFC president has turned his back on America doesn’t mean that Cook is vulnerable! As the treasurer of the club (feel free to send all your valuables) I’m still here to defend him!!!
I felt comfortable with such responsible and capable hands holding down the fort during my hiatus. You are earning an extra plate at this weeks club meeting!
Just dessert for me.