Fangraphs has an article up about playing the kids. Inside the article is a graph showing rookie contributions by team.
Pirates have given the 4th most plate appearances to rookies, but the 3rd worst fWAR @ -0.9. Pitching for the rookies has been a little better than the hitters @ 2.6 fWAR which is 8th best in the league.
I think there's a narrative going around that the rookies are the reason the Pirates have played well in the second half. They're not the reason. It's due to guys like Hayes, Reynolds, Suwinski, Joe, Keller, Oviedo, Bednar and the bullpen in general.
The top three rookie bats on the top ranked rookie club, Cincinnati Reds, are 24, 25, and 25 years old respectively. The uber-hyped Elly De La Cruz limping along at a disappointing 80 wRC+, 21 years old.
The top rookie contributor for the Pittsburgh Pirates, Jared Triolo, is 25 years old.
The much-hyped Endy, Liover, Hank are 23, 22, 23 years old respectively.
Banal wisdom of our baseball elders proven correct once again.
Good find. This stuff gives me both hope and concern going forward. Hope because maybe we get a breakout from these recent graduates who figure it out after a rough maiden voyage. Concern because I know that’s unlikely. One of those head vs. heart discussions.
I hate to say it, but out of all the rookies they promoted this season, Davis gives me the least hope moving forward. He's completely lost.
They have to start him in INDY next year at catcher in order to get some value back. Right now, I doubt he's worth much of anything on the trade market. His situation is a dereliction of duty by Cherington.
"Let's give the 1-1 guy the starting RF job in Pittsburgh after only playing 16 games in RF in the minors."
I trust that the Pirates internally know a hell of a lot more than us degenerates, if he can't catch, then let him learn RF in the GD minors.
That’s a wild take. You act like Davis is washed up already. I’m sure he would have been the DH when he was called up if Cutch wasn’t in the team. Big deal his defense stinks in RF. His value will be his bat and that was always going to be the case with him.
I probably have more faith in Hanks bat than most of the other rookies. But it’s also fair to wonder if his offense starts to plummet as he struggles on defense. We just saw him go through that.
While I don’t have a problem with them coming to the conclusion he can’t catch, the way they’ve handled the whole thing has been baffling and incompetent. Once they moved him to RF for a handful of games in Indy in May/June, he should have been given another two months at least to get his bearings and have some idea what he’s doing. Instead they put him in the HOV lane when he had no business being there.
This was puzzling. It reminded me of something the Rockies would do.
It seems crazy with as bad as this season went (after the 20-8 start) that there are only 11 days left in the season and the Pirates can't be mathematically eliminated from the wild card today. If they pulled out an extra win here or there every 40 days, we would still have a glimmer of hope for the playoffs. That probably speaks poorly on the idea of having 12 playoff teams each year when a team with a 71-81 record still has a mathematical shot at the playoffs
It speaks poorly of the sport because a lot of this heartburn is caused by 3 divisions, rather than 2 (which is what they should go back to when they expand again).
Excellent point, and I am one who sees this as the input from the Prospects promoted to MLB as the primary reason the Pirates are still "competing" for a playoff slot. And, I cannot overlook the presence of Andrew McCutchen and his 75 Walks and constant leadership for this group.
A mention of the 27 Doubles by Hayes being in excellent company is right on target for the type of hitter he has become - line drives and more lift. Just for S&G, Ji-Hwan Bae has 17 Doubles in 309 AB - trending for around 25 Doubles if he had the same number of AB's as Hayes, and his number of SB's, and excellent D at both 2B and CF make him a key player looking toward 2024
A very good way to handle that losing problem against the Cubs. Congrats to Mitch Keller for hanging in long enough for the Pirate bats to get us safely ahead, and then to the BP folks for shutting down the Cubs. Palacios (3 run HR) is having a very good year in that he is hitting well and has already earned his first full year of MLB Service - nice Rule 5 (Minors Phase) pick by BC last year.
The Indy Indians are waking up as the season comes to a close. Very nice game by SP Aaron Shortridge, and CSN and Nick Gonzales seem to have a contest going as to which will earn the Top Hitter Award each game. Last night it was CSN with his 15th HR being one of 3 hits. Interesting that CSN (24) and Palacios (28) could be competing for the same OF position in ST 2024.
Fangraphs has an article up about playing the kids. Inside the article is a graph showing rookie contributions by team.
Pirates have given the 4th most plate appearances to rookies, but the 3rd worst fWAR @ -0.9. Pitching for the rookies has been a little better than the hitters @ 2.6 fWAR which is 8th best in the league.
I think there's a narrative going around that the rookies are the reason the Pirates have played well in the second half. They're not the reason. It's due to guys like Hayes, Reynolds, Suwinski, Joe, Keller, Oviedo, Bednar and the bullpen in general.
Casual observation:
The top three rookie bats on the top ranked rookie club, Cincinnati Reds, are 24, 25, and 25 years old respectively. The uber-hyped Elly De La Cruz limping along at a disappointing 80 wRC+, 21 years old.
The top rookie contributor for the Pittsburgh Pirates, Jared Triolo, is 25 years old.
The much-hyped Endy, Liover, Hank are 23, 22, 23 years old respectively.
Banal wisdom of our baseball elders proven correct once again.
Maturity matters. We've seen some real immature players come up with the Buccos...
Castro, Bae, Peguero, Oneil.
Good find. This stuff gives me both hope and concern going forward. Hope because maybe we get a breakout from these recent graduates who figure it out after a rough maiden voyage. Concern because I know that’s unlikely. One of those head vs. heart discussions.
I hate to say it, but out of all the rookies they promoted this season, Davis gives me the least hope moving forward. He's completely lost.
They have to start him in INDY next year at catcher in order to get some value back. Right now, I doubt he's worth much of anything on the trade market. His situation is a dereliction of duty by Cherington.
"Let's give the 1-1 guy the starting RF job in Pittsburgh after only playing 16 games in RF in the minors."
I trust that the Pirates internally know a hell of a lot more than us degenerates, if he can't catch, then let him learn RF in the GD minors.
That’s a wild take. You act like Davis is washed up already. I’m sure he would have been the DH when he was called up if Cutch wasn’t in the team. Big deal his defense stinks in RF. His value will be his bat and that was always going to be the case with him.
I probably have more faith in Hanks bat than most of the other rookies. But it’s also fair to wonder if his offense starts to plummet as he struggles on defense. We just saw him go through that.
While I don’t have a problem with them coming to the conclusion he can’t catch, the way they’ve handled the whole thing has been baffling and incompetent. Once they moved him to RF for a handful of games in Indy in May/June, he should have been given another two months at least to get his bearings and have some idea what he’s doing. Instead they put him in the HOV lane when he had no business being there.
This was puzzling. It reminded me of something the Rockies would do.
It seems crazy with as bad as this season went (after the 20-8 start) that there are only 11 days left in the season and the Pirates can't be mathematically eliminated from the wild card today. If they pulled out an extra win here or there every 40 days, we would still have a glimmer of hope for the playoffs. That probably speaks poorly on the idea of having 12 playoff teams each year when a team with a 71-81 record still has a mathematical shot at the playoffs
It speaks poorly of the sport because a lot of this heartburn is caused by 3 divisions, rather than 2 (which is what they should go back to when they expand again).
Long story short, the fans get watered down playoffs so the league can make more money.
Excellent point, and I am one who sees this as the input from the Prospects promoted to MLB as the primary reason the Pirates are still "competing" for a playoff slot. And, I cannot overlook the presence of Andrew McCutchen and his 75 Walks and constant leadership for this group.
A mention of the 27 Doubles by Hayes being in excellent company is right on target for the type of hitter he has become - line drives and more lift. Just for S&G, Ji-Hwan Bae has 17 Doubles in 309 AB - trending for around 25 Doubles if he had the same number of AB's as Hayes, and his number of SB's, and excellent D at both 2B and CF make him a key player looking toward 2024
I dont think bae is seen as an excellent defender at any position
If I'm Ji Hwan Bae, I'm worried about losing my 40 spot this winter. Almost all his value is baserunning.
More than fine by me!
A very good way to handle that losing problem against the Cubs. Congrats to Mitch Keller for hanging in long enough for the Pirate bats to get us safely ahead, and then to the BP folks for shutting down the Cubs. Palacios (3 run HR) is having a very good year in that he is hitting well and has already earned his first full year of MLB Service - nice Rule 5 (Minors Phase) pick by BC last year.
The Indy Indians are waking up as the season comes to a close. Very nice game by SP Aaron Shortridge, and CSN and Nick Gonzales seem to have a contest going as to which will earn the Top Hitter Award each game. Last night it was CSN with his 15th HR being one of 3 hits. Interesting that CSN (24) and Palacios (28) could be competing for the same OF position in ST 2024.