Lowest of possible bars to set here, but I admit an irrational forgiveness of the offseason if they were able to swoop in and snag Jake Junis for the pen.
I understand they have some pitchers they acquire just to recycle them and bring in the next guy. That being said, most of their pitchers they have brought in achieve better than we initially think. Someone in the Pirates organization knows what they are doing when bringing in pitchers.
But my worry is that bullpens are an arms race, no pun intended. Losing Aroldis and banking on Mayza and Joey Wentz? Might work. I'd just be far more comfortable with someone who wasn't such a longshot.
Four days since Pham announcement, but BC is having a difficult time deciding on which AAAA player to DFA! It should happen today. Probably trying to get some cash considerations and trading Valdez. Or waiting until 2/12 to move Moreta to the 60-day IL.
Good point. Let's wait until 2/12. I would like to see baseball move that 60-day IL date up a month or so earlier. I always would like for it to be the same date for all 30 teams.
I hope this really is a "crucial season". Bob said last year was and then when they didn't come close to meeting their goal, no major changes were made. (I think some of the smaller changes, like the new scouting directors, can have a major long-term impact but also remind myself that the people who made those hires were the same people who had hired the people they replaced.)
In any case, I'm excited for things to get going and just hope that if they disappoint, more significant changes will be made in October if not sooner.
If/when Skenes takes another step forward and the Pirates lose 90ish games again (both very possible, if not probable), I think it would be fascinating for him to take a stand and refuse to play for these clowns, putting MLB and the Pirates in a very awkward position.
Skenes is going to pitch his absolute best for Pirates until they trade him 3-4 years from now. Then he will pitch as well as he can for that team until he becomes a FA. Then after signing what promises to be a HUGE deal, we will find out if he’s playing to get rich or playing to create a legacy.
My money is on him creating a legacy as one of the all-time great Pitchers in MLB.
A lot is riding on the next bargaining agreement between 2026-27 seasons. If things don't improve financially for the small markets and there is no ownership change, then Skenes will likely go elsewhere. At least unless some of these players actually decide they WANT to play in Pittsburgh and the gazillion dollar amounts don't matter.
What would I do if I had to decide between 10M and 20M (or more) a year to go to one team or another? It is so outside of my life paradigm I can't compute it. I would think that I would want to consider more than money but maybe if I had an agent and everything it wouldn't matter. And yet there would be something for being that one player who said, "I don't care about making the most. I want to be the most liked superstar in the history of the game."
one of these days, a dominant player or a promising general manager is gong to realize that winning a championship in pittsburgh is an instant ticket to the hall of fame because of our drought and financial situation
There's no doubt that many out there would jump at the chance to be GM for that and other reasons. In a sense, Ben did, saying he took the Pirates job because he wanted the challenge of building a team from nothing to a champion. But is he capable?
As for a dominant player, even in the NBA a dominant player can't do it on his own. Skenes can have the "want-to" but if management's idea of building around him is reflected in this off-season's activity, why should he stay? There's still time, though.
i think the "dominant player" tag would be more about making the club attractive to talent than doing it all themselves.
It's not getting him into the Hall and there's a loose cause and effect to begin with, but it would basically be the Jayson Werth signing with the Nats idea.
Top free agent chooses to sign with terrible club who then proceeds to string together 8 straight 1st or 2nd place finishes culminating in a title.
T14th - Derek Shelton, Pittsburgh Pirates, $1.5 mil
T14th - Carlos Mendoza, New York Mets, $1.5 mil
16th - AJ Hinch, Detroit Tigers, $1.2 mil
1. Counsell $8 mil, 2. Lovullo, $5 mil, 3. Bochy $4.5 mil, T4 Washington $4 mil, Vogt $4 mil, Melvin $4 mil, Shildt $4 mil, Snitker $4 mil, 9. Martinez $3.5 mil, 10. Boone $3.3 mil, 11. Roberts $3.25 mil, Cora $3 mil. So at least 14 other Managers paid less than Shelton in addition to AJ Hinch.
We know the lack of transparency and confidentiality in the FO, so I wouldn't know how the source(s) learned Shelton's salary. The 3 sources cited were Baseball Reference, USA Today, and The Guardian. We don't even know the length of his contract.......so I'm
I wish they would have offered him less and they had to go through an arbitration hearing like the players do. That would be interseting to hear his case why he deserves more than most managers.
That's one way to look at it - unbelievable that he is making more than Hinch, Baldelli, Schneider, Murphy, Quatraro, Espada, etc. Do you think we gave him a raise after his first 4 years? If not, he's been stealing money for the last 5 years impersonating a MLB Manager.
Lowest of possible bars to set here, but I admit an irrational forgiveness of the offseason if they were able to swoop in and snag Jake Junis for the pen.
I understand they have some pitchers they acquire just to recycle them and bring in the next guy. That being said, most of their pitchers they have brought in achieve better than we initially think. Someone in the Pirates organization knows what they are doing when bringing in pitchers.
Fully on board with Caleb Ferguson.
But my worry is that bullpens are an arms race, no pun intended. Losing Aroldis and banking on Mayza and Joey Wentz? Might work. I'd just be far more comfortable with someone who wasn't such a longshot.
did i not state my bar for success would trip a snail? ;)
Who would get out the way first? The snail or Moran?
I listened to the Baseball Today podcast from last Friday, and the two hosts gave the Pirates off-season a grade of F and Incomplete.
It’s going to take more than Juno’s to make this off-season acceptable on any level.
Grade inflation.
Are you for serious?
I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.
The long relief spot is Burrows to lose!!!!!!
Mike Burrows is a Top 3 leverage arm for me already, plenty of room to let Junis specialize in long relief.
There are some very intriguing options with this bullpen. I just wish somebody other than Ben & Derry was making the decisions.
Four days since Pham announcement, but BC is having a difficult time deciding on which AAAA player to DFA! It should happen today. Probably trying to get some cash considerations and trading Valdez. Or waiting until 2/12 to move Moreta to the 60-day IL.
Maybe he'll dfa Pham.
Good point. Let's wait until 2/12. I would like to see baseball move that 60-day IL date up a month or so earlier. I always would like for it to be the same date for all 30 teams.
I hope this really is a "crucial season". Bob said last year was and then when they didn't come close to meeting their goal, no major changes were made. (I think some of the smaller changes, like the new scouting directors, can have a major long-term impact but also remind myself that the people who made those hires were the same people who had hired the people they replaced.)
In any case, I'm excited for things to get going and just hope that if they disappoint, more significant changes will be made in October if not sooner.
LFG
If/when Skenes takes another step forward and the Pirates lose 90ish games again (both very possible, if not probable), I think it would be fascinating for him to take a stand and refuse to play for these clowns, putting MLB and the Pirates in a very awkward position.
No need for Skenes to do something like that as he has already been put in a position where his voice will be heard:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/42783637/pirates-paul-skenes-elected-mlbpa-executive-subcommittee
File this idea under “How to ruin a career.”
Skenes is going to pitch his absolute best for Pirates until they trade him 3-4 years from now. Then he will pitch as well as he can for that team until he becomes a FA. Then after signing what promises to be a HUGE deal, we will find out if he’s playing to get rich or playing to create a legacy.
My money is on him creating a legacy as one of the all-time great Pitchers in MLB.
A lot is riding on the next bargaining agreement between 2026-27 seasons. If things don't improve financially for the small markets and there is no ownership change, then Skenes will likely go elsewhere. At least unless some of these players actually decide they WANT to play in Pittsburgh and the gazillion dollar amounts don't matter.
What would I do if I had to decide between 10M and 20M (or more) a year to go to one team or another? It is so outside of my life paradigm I can't compute it. I would think that I would want to consider more than money but maybe if I had an agent and everything it wouldn't matter. And yet there would be something for being that one player who said, "I don't care about making the most. I want to be the most liked superstar in the history of the game."
I’m going to love watching Skenes for as long as he’s wearing my favorite baseball laundry. Afterwards, not as much.
one of these days, a dominant player or a promising general manager is gong to realize that winning a championship in pittsburgh is an instant ticket to the hall of fame because of our drought and financial situation
There's no doubt that many out there would jump at the chance to be GM for that and other reasons. In a sense, Ben did, saying he took the Pirates job because he wanted the challenge of building a team from nothing to a champion. But is he capable?
As for a dominant player, even in the NBA a dominant player can't do it on his own. Skenes can have the "want-to" but if management's idea of building around him is reflected in this off-season's activity, why should he stay? There's still time, though.
i think the "dominant player" tag would be more about making the club attractive to talent than doing it all themselves.
It's not getting him into the Hall and there's a loose cause and effect to begin with, but it would basically be the Jayson Werth signing with the Nats idea.
Top free agent chooses to sign with terrible club who then proceeds to string together 8 straight 1st or 2nd place finishes culminating in a title.
More from "Baseball Wit and Wisdom", as the sun shines on a crisp 17 degree February morning and I know that baseball will be here soon:
"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball."
-- Pete Rose (and though I never was a fan, I really hope this isn't the case)
The Pirates have a Top 10 Rotation, possibly even Top 5. We have a Bottom 5 Offense.
Positive(s) from the Off-Season -
1. Traded to get Spencer Horwitz, 1B
Negative(s) from the Off-Season -
1. Failed to terminate Derek Shelton, 5 years .415 Winning Percentage
2. Failed to sign a FA LH hitting OF who could provide Day 1, MOTO Offense,
3. Failed to maintain a competitive Projected Player Salary level with other NL Central teams -
Cubs - $191.2 mil
Cards - $146.6 mil
Reds - $114.0 mil
Brew - $108.0 mil
Pirates - $85.4 mil
4. Signed more 1 year "wing and a prayer" veteran's hoping for miracles
5. Failed to provide any substantiated proof that they hope to win in 2025.
6. Those pitchers in our Rotation are already planning their futures with other teams!
Anyone interested in Shelton's Salary in 2024?
13th - Kevin Cash, Tampa Bay, $1.66 mil
T14th - Derek Shelton, Pittsburgh Pirates, $1.5 mil
T14th - Carlos Mendoza, New York Mets, $1.5 mil
16th - AJ Hinch, Detroit Tigers, $1.2 mil
1. Counsell $8 mil, 2. Lovullo, $5 mil, 3. Bochy $4.5 mil, T4 Washington $4 mil, Vogt $4 mil, Melvin $4 mil, Shildt $4 mil, Snitker $4 mil, 9. Martinez $3.5 mil, 10. Boone $3.3 mil, 11. Roberts $3.25 mil, Cora $3 mil. So at least 14 other Managers paid less than Shelton in addition to AJ Hinch.
We know the lack of transparency and confidentiality in the FO, so I wouldn't know how the source(s) learned Shelton's salary. The 3 sources cited were Baseball Reference, USA Today, and The Guardian. We don't even know the length of his contract.......so I'm
doubtful about these numbers.
I wish they would have offered him less and they had to go through an arbitration hearing like the players do. That would be interseting to hear his case why he deserves more than most managers.
So they’re above .500 in manager salary! Progress!!
That's one way to look at it - unbelievable that he is making more than Hinch, Baldelli, Schneider, Murphy, Quatraro, Espada, etc. Do you think we gave him a raise after his first 4 years? If not, he's been stealing money for the last 5 years impersonating a MLB Manager.
Play ball!
Hallelujah!