107 Comments

as someone who has spent valuable time invested, working in the SportsBeat studio, I must say today´s news is quite grim

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Since expansion was a topic of discussion yesterday, I'll post a timely article from ESPN about the cities that would be in the running. It sounds like Nashville is almost a given. The two I would most like to see are Mexico City and Montreal but I can't see either happening. Either Charlotte or Raleigh would also make me happy.

Anyway, fun article to read:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39563422/mlb-expansion-potential-cities-candidates-teams-austin-montreal-nashville-orlando-portland-raleigh-salt-lake-city

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Would the Braves would stand stand still for both Nashville AND Charlotte? I know my dream of Memphis would get shot down by Budweiser

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Somehow I think we'll end up with an Oakland revival to go along with Salt Lake. Balance out east/west.

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Charlotte, Montreal, Mexico City, Nashville…San Antone. Lots of decent options.

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the problem with the Diablos is that the stadium takes and hour and a half to arrive to from the middle of the city

if they put a new one by the National Auditorium, maybe they draw all us yuppies in Polanco

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Pittsburgh has been carrying an expansion team roster for years so there's that!

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They should do New Orleans, for no other reason than I want a team here

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B-Mac’s sources tell me MLB will be contacting you as a consultant on putting a team in NO.

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Oooo, I can't wait. I'll help build a winner before Bob.

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Setting the bar high, eh?

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had I the resources, there would be a competing team in Birmingham

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a really good lot actually was recently sold

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That's only a 4 hr drive, I'd welcome it. Nashville still too far.

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???

its just across your pick in four different bridges

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Just spent the weekend in Raleigh area. Really enjoyed it.

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Great city! I was there March of 2022 to watch the Pens play the Canes. Fun city with a ton of watering holes.

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I was there with a 4 and 6 year old. So a lot of good water fountains in plenty of cool kids parks and museums. Durham too. We stayed in Hillsborough.

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As someone who lives in Chapel hill I would love to see a team here. My only concern that they don’t bring up is that there are several minor league teams in the area that do quite well. I’m not sure they would be enthused with adding an MLB team to the mix.

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Yes, it might kill the Bulls and Mudcats and Grasshoppers, though how cool would it be if they became the minor league affiliates of the new major league team?

When I lived in Raleigh, there was hardly anything I liked better than going to a Mudcats game (when I first moved there, they were the Pirates' AA affiliate). Maybe the best arrangement would be Charlotte gets the MLB team and the Bulls become their AAA affiliate and Greensboro their A+ affiliate.

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weekend we were down coach K's last game vs UNC. Duke got destroyed...we went to some big ass bar at the outskirts of town. Place was huge. Can't remember the name of the place. Live band outside, horseshoe pits, shuffleboard inside. All kinds of talent running around.

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Any talent that could help our starting pitching or hole at 1B?

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Tellez gonna mash this season!

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He does look slimmed down, still a huge man.

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So you are hip to the gal style of puffer jackets and yoga pants. Sweet mother that's all the gals wear. At least gals with young kids that go to parks and museums. Not the Walmart.

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Hahaha…my kids are 5 and 7 so I know the crowd you are referring to. I’m sure you were around some of our common haunts.

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I'm all about yoga pants....my God!

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ugh, pass, they make my ass look big.

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It was like Woodstock. 3 days man, 3 days.

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I often wonder if when Nutting meets other owners they laugh at him. Or he feels embarrassed. I know he is rich and all but I bet they just look at him and shake their head. They should make a movie A Christmas Carol with Bob. But include a fragile ass Italian leg lamp. Or not.

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I don’t think any would laugh. All teams operate similarly. No owner shells money out of their own pockets to pay players. Look at the comments on the MLBTR boards and fans everywhere pretty much complain that their ownership group is cheap and won’tspend to compete. Even in Big Markets. A new owner in Pittsburgh would not do things much differently than Nutting does.

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If it wasn’t for revenue sharing and a publicly funded stadium, MLB would not be economically sustainable in Pittsburgh. That’s a lot of risk to take on as a prospective owner…

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Would the new owner wear black tinted glasses? Literally and figuratively?

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his love of transition lenses is legitimately the only thing i viscerally hate about him

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I wear glasses. Never wanted transition lenses. Would have driven me mor crazy than I already am. Had script sunglasses before I had sunglasses before contacts. Now I have sunglasses that look similar to Blues Brothers style. 😁

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It's being financially sound, who needs two pair of prescription lenses when one can do with transition lenses.

I hate them as well.

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I was trying to think of what those lenses were called. But I agree. When see those shaded lenses I get pissed off. And I can't even explain why. So don't bother asking.

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Why would they? Multiple organizations operate similarly on a financial level.

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Don't know. I was just wondering. Maybe those are the people that Bob sits with at the lunch table. Hopefully the Rays management/ownership teams are readily available.

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I don’t get the vibe that MLB or the owners care enough about how broken their product is to laugh at anyone. There are worse owners than Nutting that are allowed to operate with impunity: Moreno, Montfort. Certainly John Fisher. And they are unanimously allowing Fisher to move to a smaller market in Las Vegas and most likely play, in the interim, in a 14,000 seat stadium. Baseball, although broken for the fans, is profitable. Thats all that matters to these guys.

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Bob is pretty reclusive, wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't meet and mingle with other owners. He probably sends Travis as his representative. He strikes me as "don't try and influence me, I like having my own tunnel vision" type of owner.

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He does seem like a guy who can be "influenced" so to speak. He obviously has no idea what he's doing so he needs to get advised by someone. But how much can you really trust what other owners/execs are telling you in a competitive environment?

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fra-gee-lay!

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The Athletic has an article drop this morning about the Pirates. 'Comfortable being mediocre Why the Pirates keep losing'. TBH a good article but nothing that hasn't been discussed or highlighted here. If anything from my perspective it made Bob look even cheaper. The article went way beyond that.

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The Athletic fires Biertempal. Replaces him with NO ONE. Publishes ZERO Pirates stories for months.

THEN instead of an optimistic article during the optimistic time of year publishes he SAME outdated Nutting stuff from Nesbitt's time with the Pirates.

Don't applaud the Athletic for treating us like crap. Tell them to go F themselves and give us a real reporter.

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The real crime is paying for pirates coverage at The Athletic. It was always mediocre at best.

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I love the Athletic, you wait for the specials it $1-2 per month. Better generally than any other sports website in my opinion. If you want Pirates coverage you come here or Pittsburgh Baseball now. National media focuses on NY, LA, large markets, just the way it is

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I pay the $1.99 per month for Las Vegas Raiders and Pens coverage.

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Problem is they replaced their front office, to "shake things up", and at this point I'm not even sure they're ahead of where the Pirates were when Ben took over.

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Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

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WE WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!!!!

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Incredibly well chosen title. Except "mediocre" is generous. They aim at mediocrity and fall well short.

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The (worst, most annoying, ect) thing about the past 20+ years for me as fan of all Pittsburgh sports is the fact that the Pirates have lost several generations of fans. While the Pens really rallied around Sid and company to set attendance records. Hockey has improved in the area. Moms, dads, and kids now like hockey where they may have not in past years. You get the gist. Steelers are the Steelers. But the Pirates who did not even need to rely on a lottery to get an amazing player or two still suck. Yeah Cutch was great to watch and is a good story now but they didn't add to that anyone really exciting. And I don't think that the Bucs gained all that many fans in the past 20 years. I mean how many people on this board are under the age of 22? If I get tired of watching them get beat how can I get my two young kids fired up about 3 hours of a shit show? That's just my opinion at this moment in time. Time to collect duck and chicken eggs.

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some tired stories. published to get clicks and comments. Targetting the lowest common denominator. The Nunnally talk. Taking Cole Tucker's opinion on hitting seriously. LOL

BTW - Have you read Nunnally's career progression. He started as the Indians hitting coach and then kept getting demoted with each hire with a couple years off in between:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Nunnally

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Yeah... the Nunnally thing is way over-blown. If he was such a great hitting coach, why can none of the Pirates' prospects... hit? Of all the things that BC and Nutting have done, the Nunally firing was the least significant and probably not a bad decision.

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Maybe overblown, but severing ties with a coach after one of your franchise players credited him with his turn around at the plate certainly doesn’t look good…

You could certainly make the argument that the reason for the firing was every position prospect seemingly stalling out in Altoona offensively though

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He obviously had a good relationship with Hayes and understood the problem that was causing Hayes' to underperform and injure his back repeatedly. This is to his credit, but I would like to see more than 1 success before I defend him. I mean it is one thing to have a good relationship with 1 player and another to have good relations with 26.

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I don’t disagree with you on that one my friend. One thing I do find encouraging with this front office is their willingness to allow players to seek outside help. It’s frustrating as a fan to see so many young players struggle and Andy Haines still be employed, but allowing them to go outside of the organization (or elsewhere in the organization?) and find something that works for them, to me, is a step in the right direction.

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True, but the Hayes/Numnally story symptomatic of the poor development and getting a guy to produce. It wouldn’t stand out or be an issue if they had other development successes in house. But they don’t.

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Well... I am sympathetic to Nunnally if the reason for his firing was, as he put it, "philosophical differences," which I assume means that he did not share Ben's enthusiasm for the Fangraphs theory of hitting which is that swinging the bat is usually a bad decision unless one can pull the ball for a HR. Can the guy fix hitters' mechanics so that they swing the bat well and make consistent hard contact? That would be my only criteria in a hitting coach. Whether they have a philosophy that emphasizes patience or not would be a very secondary consideration. Such is my opinion.

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Problem with Ben's philosophy, he almost always forgets the important part of power when drafting or acquiring players. Got lucky with Suwinski.

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Then keep your head in the sand and insist the Pirates are “winning.” This organization is 110 games under .500 since 2020. You can’t polish turds because that’s what they’ve been.

This is all outcome based. Which is how it should be. The story changes if they start winning. Like Baltimore did.

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At the moment, Baltimore isn’t operating that differently financially. Thats the irony. The big difference is our lack of aggressiveness. This organization is run with all the vigor of an 85 year old with COPD.

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Yeah the organization is being run just like the country is.

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That’s true, but Baltimore showed some urgency in trading for Burnes. Would this organization ever do that?

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Heck I'd take a trade for Miller or Boyle from the A's just to shake things up.

Saw Boyle pitch against the Halos last year, if he could ever get control, he would dominate.

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Hence my lack of vigor comment. Burnes isn’t expensive from a salary standpoint. But he cost them some decent prospects. Decent prospects that we can’t seem to identify. Maybe showing a lack of urgency in keeping Joe Dellicarri in place for 5 years wasn’t aces for a strategy.

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They’re tired because they’re true. And it’s repetitive. Unless I see tangible improvement at the MLB level this year, that is the story.

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Please take a thing that gives joy to people and make it negative. that's what this world needs, more negativity.

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I often have these arguments with my friends IRL. That's why I joined here, much better to argue with strangers on the internet instead!

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Wow, really cogent rebuttal.

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I’ll always root for the players who wear the uniform. I can criticize their business philosophy without it hampering my enjoyment of watching them play.

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So you can pursue two separate lines of thought? Is that some sort of superpower?

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Well put, sir!

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I thought the same as their grades would be below mediocre. But as always I'll hope for over achievement. It's that or give up.

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I think we could say the hiring of Cherington was in line with the title. He's like a prospect with a high enough floor that he'll be competent but limited upside. Arnold would have been more of an unknown with a lower floor but higher upside (and since that time, Arnold seems to be proving himself).

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Just goes to show that MLB is like every other major sports league that mostly just recycles existing known names, although I'd say overall baseball isn't on the same level as other leagues. You at least see MLB try to be innovative, well, outside of the Pirates.

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Old Boys club. Hockey is probably worse. Pirates are cutting edge though, they got a hockey guy to be president!

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NHL might easily be the worst. They LOOOOOVVVVEEEEEEE hiring "experienced" coaches.

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Cherington finishing last in his last two seasons with big-budget Boston should have been a massive red flag. He couldn’t take the pressure there. But then, Nuttin is AOK with last and there’s zero pressure in Pgh.

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In that case, we need more articles like the one at The Athletic. I'm convinced that Bob doesn't care a bit about winning but he does seem to care about his image. If enough national publications start taking a closer look at his stewardship of our once proud franchise, maybe the local media will get on the ball. And if locally and nationally he's being called out, maybe he'll either spend or sell.

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This. It’s curious that right after the PG published that investigative piece showing the Pirates tied payroll to gate receipts and concessions Nutting extended Hayes and Reynolds.

I wonder if one thing Nutting does care about is looking like a jabroni to the other owners.

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BN deserves every bit of bad publicity he gets based upon is business philosophy. But to think he will change how he operates the business because of how he’s represented by the media is wishful thinking at best.

I’m resigned to hoping this group of veterans and prospects will overcome the odds and achieve greatness despite the fact BN has made it unlikely.

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I'll be honest I am with you on the 'hoping this group' wagon. I can sound overly optimistic or dismissive of past failures at times, but to be totally transparent there are times I tire of many discussions on what they should do end with just 'but this front office s**ks so why discuss'. I have no proof that statement is wrong, but sometimes I just like good old baseball talk and what/if discussions. Not fairy tale discussions, just discussions that imply if Bucs could behave like TB or develop like Cleveland then we have a chance. Have they - NO, but that feels like our only path forward.

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It’s easy to be jaded. Lord knows I am. I used to be optimistic to a fault. I want to be again if the FO would just give me a reason to be.

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I fall into both categories. I'm not a regular complainer of negative (reality based) comments as I know on PP there were some who regularly called out some posters. But I do think you can both evaluate history (not good) but also discuss what we would like to see happen with some level of optimism/hope (dreaming?).

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Well said.

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I read it as he expects them to win within his budget which will be difficult. I agree I don't think he cares about the media pressure or fan anger so I personally don't think a media campaign will trigger a sale. To be fair to the article it touched on a lot more. Without sharing too much from a pay site (not my thing) it did talk about going from little use of analytics to all in. While that was not a bad thing, the authority given to the analytics team was highlighted as a problem. ie. maybe they can provide the information but still have some 'baseball' people with more experience mesh that with other important factors. The Hayes using Nunnally was also discussed a lot.

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Yeah, Dan Fox has led analytics since 2008 and oversaw the Pirates becoming an innovative team. However, they seemed to have lost any edge they had in the last decade. Something needs to change there; it feels like they're resting on their laurels and have run out of ideas that actually work. Or maybe it's a disconnect between analytics and coaching, as you say the article suggests. But something isn't working, and I worry that they're too stubborn to change.

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Mike Fitzgerald made all the pieces fit together, never found a suitable replacement.

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I did not read the article, but it seems as though they are saying what I am thinking: that there is a disconnect between data and practice. Gathering data is pointless if you cannot put that data to good use. This comes down to old-fashioned coaching: hitting and pitching.

Let us a take a typical Pirate acquisition. Prospect X has good plate discipline (good out-of-zone swing % that we determined by aggregating Trackman data) and good exit velocity numbers, but he struggles making consistent contact and still Ks nearly 30% of his ABs. What is the problem? The data tells you that there is a problem, but can't tell you what the problem is. You need an actual coach who understands the mechanics of hitting and can look at the guy's swing and say... improper hip rotation or overloading or his hands are not functioning independently. No armchair analyst is going to be able to fix this problem with a Trackman unit. You need an actual old-fashioned coach to do this, and this is where the Pirates fail.

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Maybe semantics but tracking devices absolutely can *diagnose* issues. They need coaches to correct them.

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Yeah... that's what I am saying. The data gathering equipment can spot problems, i.e. diagnose, but cannot provide solutions, i.e. treat the illness. That is up to coaches, and the problem that I have with "data" Jacobins, like Cherington, is that they think that gathering data and then developing a "philosophy" based upon data is sufficient to build a baseball program... i.e. the data, in the aggregate suggests that being more selective with 2 strikes is better. Therefore, the only measure of importance with hitters is how selective they are in their swing decisions. This is just hard-headedness and the belief that "theory" is more important than practice... a common misconception of people who work behind desks. All the coaches have to fall in line and tell everyone to be more selective or else they are out, even if they are able to fix the swing of a key player in the franchise.

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I still miss Diego.

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