MLB Phase - Selected Jose Hernandez from LAD; lost Blake Sabol to Reds/Giants
Minor League Phase - Lost 11 and I think 9 or 10 were Pitchers. Fangraphs "it's likely that they mis-evaluated some of their own players who they should have protected, players like Trey McGough, Cristian Charle, Joelvis Del Rosario, Austin Roberts, Wilkin Ramos, Jared Oliva, and Peter Solomon.
Based on a glancing read on the 2023 numbers, I think the Pirates made the right decisions, and did not mis-evaluate the players listed. In the MLB phase, Sabol got his chance and did well for the Giants as a C/DH/LF. I think a 0.7 fWAR. Joey Bart having another very poor season helped get him the opportunities at C, and he took off running. He would never have gotten that opportunity with the Pirates and would probably have spent all of 2023 in AAA. The Pirates getting Jose Hernandez was a big need (LHRP) and he pitched well for the Pirates. A win-win for both teams and players.
Completely disagree about the MiL phase. Let's try to remember, we're not talking about putting these guys on the 40-man. There was zero cost to adding them to the AAA roster. None. And the Pirates ended up with a bunch of empty AAA spots, more than nearly any other team.
Obviously, these aren't top prospects. They're depth guys. But if you have 9-10 of them, you might get some use out of a couple, certainly enough to justify the zero-cost move of protecting them. Joe Jacques actually pitched quite a bit in the majors this year, although not very well. (Then again, he was as good as or better than a bunch of guys the Pirates used.) McGough looked promising with the Pirates, but he had TJ in 2022 and this was his recovery year, so he didn't pitch much.
The big mistake was Ramos. He throws in the upper-90s but has been held back by control issues. He made good progress this year, reached AA and had a very good year overall. The Pirates absolutely blew it with him.
Charle also had a good year, reached AA and pitched very well there, much better than nearly any of the relievers the Pirates had there.
I also don't see the connection between Hernandez and Sabol. There was no need to lose Sabol in order to acquire Hernandez.
Sabol/Hernandez - only connection is that the Pirates did not fill the 40 in order to draft someone in the MLB portion (Jose Hernandez). Could that have been Sabol's spot? Who knows. Sabol was a gamer and I was glad that he got the chance - he was behind too many Catchers with the Pirates.
A lot of those guys in the Minor League Phase were/are journeymen relievers at best. Losing that many was a negative, but opened up a lot of upward mobility/opportunity for others. It's a sad part of this game, but having the opportunity somewhere else gives many of them a new beginning. I look at the listing and wonder how many we will try to hide this year.
“opened up a lot of upward mobility/opportunity for others”
No, it just created a lot of holes they weren’t able to fill. The system had significant bullpen problems, especially at Altoona and Greensboro. A lack of organizational pitching depth was the specific reason they focused so heavily on college pitching the last two drafts.
Glad to see the SRR get back to winning, and Flowers and Samaniego pitched well in relief.
The Rule 5 Draft is always a big event for the Pirates and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that the fans have been without baseball since the end of the regular season. We have the "benefit" of a longer off-season to ponder how we could possibly become relevant in the next season.
For the Pirates, I think they did a nice job of getting a lot of prospects into the MLB lineup in 2023 - some did better than expected, some did worse than expected. How the management of this franchise use the play of 2023 to evaluate who are trade candidates, who are exposed to the Rule 5, and who are protected by being added to the 40 prior to the Draft on Dec 7, will give all of us an indication of how serious they are about winning in 2024. The NL Central leveled out in 2023, and just about every team had a chance to compete.
The most important key to competing next year is creating an environment for hitters like Cruz, Davis, Endy, Jack, Nick, and Peggy to hit closer to their ceiling than their floor.
Simply put, they need to score a minimum of 100 more runs next year. For that to happen, they need these young, talented hitters to perform better. Much better!
It’s a whole lot easier to justify poor performance than it is to produce great results. Frankly, I’ve had enough of the former, and desperately want more of the latter when it comes to the Pirates.
whether Brannigan is starting Indy shortstop in April depends on whether Cheng in packaged for a pitcher, no?
Just a recap of the 2022 Rule 5:
MLB Phase - Selected Jose Hernandez from LAD; lost Blake Sabol to Reds/Giants
Minor League Phase - Lost 11 and I think 9 or 10 were Pitchers. Fangraphs "it's likely that they mis-evaluated some of their own players who they should have protected, players like Trey McGough, Cristian Charle, Joelvis Del Rosario, Austin Roberts, Wilkin Ramos, Jared Oliva, and Peter Solomon.
Based on a glancing read on the 2023 numbers, I think the Pirates made the right decisions, and did not mis-evaluate the players listed. In the MLB phase, Sabol got his chance and did well for the Giants as a C/DH/LF. I think a 0.7 fWAR. Joey Bart having another very poor season helped get him the opportunities at C, and he took off running. He would never have gotten that opportunity with the Pirates and would probably have spent all of 2023 in AAA. The Pirates getting Jose Hernandez was a big need (LHRP) and he pitched well for the Pirates. A win-win for both teams and players.
Completely disagree about the MiL phase. Let's try to remember, we're not talking about putting these guys on the 40-man. There was zero cost to adding them to the AAA roster. None. And the Pirates ended up with a bunch of empty AAA spots, more than nearly any other team.
Obviously, these aren't top prospects. They're depth guys. But if you have 9-10 of them, you might get some use out of a couple, certainly enough to justify the zero-cost move of protecting them. Joe Jacques actually pitched quite a bit in the majors this year, although not very well. (Then again, he was as good as or better than a bunch of guys the Pirates used.) McGough looked promising with the Pirates, but he had TJ in 2022 and this was his recovery year, so he didn't pitch much.
The big mistake was Ramos. He throws in the upper-90s but has been held back by control issues. He made good progress this year, reached AA and had a very good year overall. The Pirates absolutely blew it with him.
Charle also had a good year, reached AA and pitched very well there, much better than nearly any of the relievers the Pirates had there.
I also don't see the connection between Hernandez and Sabol. There was no need to lose Sabol in order to acquire Hernandez.
Sabol/Hernandez - only connection is that the Pirates did not fill the 40 in order to draft someone in the MLB portion (Jose Hernandez). Could that have been Sabol's spot? Who knows. Sabol was a gamer and I was glad that he got the chance - he was behind too many Catchers with the Pirates.
A lot of those guys in the Minor League Phase were/are journeymen relievers at best. Losing that many was a negative, but opened up a lot of upward mobility/opportunity for others. It's a sad part of this game, but having the opportunity somewhere else gives many of them a new beginning. I look at the listing and wonder how many we will try to hide this year.
“opened up a lot of upward mobility/opportunity for others”
No, it just created a lot of holes they weren’t able to fill. The system had significant bullpen problems, especially at Altoona and Greensboro. A lack of organizational pitching depth was the specific reason they focused so heavily on college pitching the last two drafts.
Glad to see the SRR get back to winning, and Flowers and Samaniego pitched well in relief.
The Rule 5 Draft is always a big event for the Pirates and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that the fans have been without baseball since the end of the regular season. We have the "benefit" of a longer off-season to ponder how we could possibly become relevant in the next season.
For the Pirates, I think they did a nice job of getting a lot of prospects into the MLB lineup in 2023 - some did better than expected, some did worse than expected. How the management of this franchise use the play of 2023 to evaluate who are trade candidates, who are exposed to the Rule 5, and who are protected by being added to the 40 prior to the Draft on Dec 7, will give all of us an indication of how serious they are about winning in 2024. The NL Central leveled out in 2023, and just about every team had a chance to compete.
The most important key to competing next year is creating an environment for hitters like Cruz, Davis, Endy, Jack, Nick, and Peggy to hit closer to their ceiling than their floor.
Simply put, they need to score a minimum of 100 more runs next year. For that to happen, they need these young, talented hitters to perform better. Much better!
Stumpf said he heard Davis’ hand injury affected him more than anybody let on. So there’s that.
It’s a whole lot easier to justify poor performance than it is to produce great results. Frankly, I’ve had enough of the former, and desperately want more of the latter when it comes to the Pirates.