Passan has a clickbait Skenes trade article up on MLB I won't link to but he does have a trade from the Tigers I think I'd not be sad about:
Kevin McGonigle
Max Clark,
Colt Keith
Jackson Jobe
Sawyer Gipson-Long (who I originally forgot)
for Skenes. BTV thinks that's a huge overpay (200 to 130 surplus value). McGonigle has done nothing but hit and STEAMER thinks he could come up and put up a 87 wRC+ right now as a 20 year old. Not sure what we'd do with Keith and Gonzales on the same roster. At least Keith's a lefty. Clark is also destroying the ball as a 20 year old in A+ and STEAMER thinks he could put up a 76 wRC+ right now (giving Konnor Griffin a 62 wRC+). Would still have the makings of a very strong rotation with Chandler, Jobe, Jones, Oviedo, etc
It’s probably too late to post this seeing the discussion below, but a couple contextual points about this article:
It was written by David Schoenfeld, not Jeff Passan, and it appears on ESPN behind the paywall. Schoenfeld’s premise was to ask why don’t we get wild and crazy superstar trades in MLB like we do in the NBA. So just for argument’s sake, he took three star players —- Skenes, Acuna, Jr,, and Bryan Buxton —- and developed three potential offers for each one based on current needs of the trading teams. He was not in any way suggesting that there was even a remote possibility that these trades would take place.
Hear me out. What if Nutting sells this winter to a quintillionaire and we extend Skenes and go heavy in the free agent market? Turn into the Mets but better since we swept them recently.
Since most of the high priced golfers playing on LIV Tour now want to come back to the PGA Tour, maybe we can convince the Saudi prince of darkness to put that money into Pirates baseball?
I haven't heard that any of the LIV players want to come back to PGA Tour. There may be statements they want all the best players to compete against each other, in theory, but they all seem to love the LIV format and schedule.
Per Sportrac the Pirates are 26th in MLB with an $88M payroll. It is not unreasonable at all to get #20 KC at $125M or #22 CIN at $116M. The Pirates org has been historically awful at maximizing revenue streams—mostly TV deals. Just do that and I’m happy. Put two $15M bats in this lineup and it changes everything.
As an aside, 2 of the teams with lower payroll than the Pirates are playing in minor-league stadiums this season and 2 are actively tanking. Only 2 of these teams have a worse record than the Pirates. Another aside, the Pirates have the least amount of payroll on the IL of any major-league team. So the Pirates have the lowest payroll of any team that has a stadium to play in and are not actively tanking.
The team is very healthy (by MLB standards) and is still being outperformed by a team playing in minor-league stadium and a team that is actively tanking.
How the heck do the Rockies habitually suck nuts too. Another team with a pretty ballpark who continually suck. At least they can legally get stoned and laugh at their teams performance.
They should try and pitch helping Skenes win a World Series to Kyle Tucker this offseason. Skenes, Chandler, Ashcraft, Jones, Oviedo, Barco, all projected below 4 ERA as low as 2 for a killer rotation. Then you've just got to convince him they'd add a few other guys on offense around him. Pitch him the trade and acquisition targets they'd ideally hope to sign if he signed. Show him footage of the games and attendance this year and then show him the Cueto game and have him imagine bringing postseason winning back to Pittsburgh. Footage of Clemente and all the old timers. I know I'm dreaming but he's one bat this offeason that could move the needle.
Yeah. It's a damn shame. Sure would like to bust out the Freddy Sanchez tshirt jersey that's deep in the dresser. I'd even learn how to iron to make sure she is crisp.
Nutting thinks he can play a significant role representing the interests of small market teams for the next CBA. We'll see, but in any case if we have any hope of him selling it will be after the CBA when he either fails and no longer can fool himself into thinking he has a more significant role or he succeeds and the team is worth even more due to a friendlier CBA.
I would think his main objective is to how to find a way for small markets to profit. Getting a small market team to win is something I am guessing he would sell out for.
It looked pretty good at first reading McGonigle and Clark. Keith is beginning to look like he just might be an average player, but do we want his contract with that? If we are trading Skenes, do we really want a pitcher with an ERA in the 4's that is going to miss this year and probably all of next with Tommy John?
I was in this boat. I didn't take this as clickbait or that this is remotely going to happen. He took 3 players who would take significant return and had fun with it. The Tigers example above was a great example, how much would they give to take their team to potentially another level. I look back at the Cutch MVP level years and I was totally against trading Taillon/ Bell etc. and they were top prospects. In hindsight I would gladly have traded away the future (it was bad anyway) for what those players could have provided in return with a somewhat safe assumption the Pirates would have avoided the one game elimination. I have those same debates with myself now for the Skenes window.
That was me in the Cutch years... big difference of course is that the Cutch years were a playoff bound team vs. well... whatever this is. Now I have used Bubba many times in 'what-ifs' and I'll always throw out the what if Red Sox would give us Anthony or Nats would give us Crews for Bubba. Not saying either would... but that is why anybody can be considered in trades.
I never take, Should we trade X? as a real question because we don’t know the return. I’d trade Skenes if the return was loony enough, I suppose. But you don’t go out thinking, We’re trading Mitch Keller. You start from the return, not the cost.
You've likely heard me say before (so in total agreement) that nobody can be considered untouchable. That is just bad business. So while I am firmly in the don't trade Skenes NOW camp, you look at this just playing around proposal and they (new GM) would have to look at it and have internal debates.
I think if we want to do something in the play-offs, we need Skenes. I probably am higher on Keller than most people, but I think Skenes-Keller make a good 1-2.
It would take an overpay for me to trade Keller. If we trade Keller, Bednar, Santana, Hayes for prospects alll we are doing is building for the next window... which is after Skenes is gone. If that's the route we take, go ahead and trade Skenes too.
If I had my choice, I would like us to keep all of our good players and have an owner willing to pay for some hitters.
Good point. I'm more venting than being logical. It bothered me that guys like Carlos Santana, Jose Quintana, Aroldis Chapman and others were considered gone (and never coming back) because their contracts ran out. We could actually pay them fair value and keep them.
Now we are looking at guys like Bednar, Santana, IKF, Heaney and others as good as gone. When in fact, many of those guys would probably stay if we could simply offer them a fair contract.
And yes. I 100% think they should be all in on 2026.
Santana is like wine since leaving. Chaps is closing for the BoSox I think. Bites ass that soon as we sign Heaney, the lefty I can't think of who now pitches for the Angels and others we know they are gone around Steelers training camp. It's tiring. If I didn't grow up during Leyland I'm not sure if even check their box scores.
3 years of arbitration after Bednar and Santana hit free agency. If they can get high upside guys that might debut next year but add value in '27, then they should consider it.
I don't _want_ to trade him. I also don't want to watch him go 7-14 every year on losing teams because Nutting won't put any bats around him. I think I'd rather see him win elsewhere than watch that.
Folks would come watch a team that won games and a more balanced roster with guys like Griffin and Clark and McGonigle and Chandler and all the other pitchers might actually do that. Skenes and zero bats unfortunately will lose too many 1-0 games.
I agree. If they are winning people will come. Like Field of Dreams. I remember Cutch "Amazon Prime" days going home and seeing Pirates gear all around. Went home a few years ago and it was no where to be found. Fans are looking for a reason to wear their Jason Bay t-shirt jersey on the dahntahn.
Agree.. winning games helps attendance way more than anything else. To get my vote in.. with the hopes of a new GM I am fully against trading Skenes NOW. Flash ahead 2 years and it will always be a fair debate. IMO unicorns like Skenes will never sign in the smaller markets. The best small markets (TB I'll vote for) just know how to thread that needle of when to cash in and reload on the fly.
I think even given Rainers injury I'd prefer McGonigle, Clark, Rainer and Briceno. Same exact package value but all of them line up with Griffin better than Keith and Jobe while Keith lines up better for Detroit's current roster.
The four you prefer plus Jobe. It would take a big overpay. The three healthy players debut in double A this week, Rainer is down with the shoulder until next year and Jobe probably won't be back until '27 after TJS.
I'd still have a hard time trading Skenes and don't think the organization would consider it.
That'd rival the Soto deal and it's the same value as the deal Passan suggests. Who knows how Rainer and Jobe come back though. Pirates luck their arms fall off during rehab.
Griffin still bars his lead arm, making up for it right now because he starts his hands so quickly and is strong enough to rip the bat through the zone, but I worry about him adjusting against better pitchers who can change speeds more on him where he’s already committed to a path because of that locked elbow.
He was substantially better at shortstop than I expected, with a quick first step and good hands, along with the plus-plus arm he showed as a pitcher in high school. Sunday’s game was a pitching debacle; the final score was 13-7 and Greensboro had 15 hits and drew five walks.
Kiley McDaniel weights in with his final draft prospect ranking. It’s worth reading if you are an ESPN subscriber as he gives the best and worst case scenarios for his top prospects.
His top three, all 55 FV, are in order Anderson, Holliday, and Willits. He notes that Willits is the kind of player who tends to be undervalued by the industry as he doesn’t have one flashy tool, but is very good to excellent across the board. And he’s 17. McDaniel compares him to Kevin McGonigle, the Tigers prospect from last year’s draft.
50 FV tier in order: Hernandez, Arnold, Doyle, Parker, Carlson, and Arquette. Since Arquette is being frequently mocked to the Pirates, partially because they supposedly are leaning to college to beef up the team around Skenes, I’ll note that McDaniel says the downside risk with Arquette is that he has to move to third base and doesn’t have the bat to ball skills or pitch recognition to be a dominant major league hitter. He didn’t use this comp, but the risk is that he’s Jeff King. The upside is that he stays at short and hits 30 HRs a year.
I continue to hope that the Pirates go straight best player available, and take one of the high school shortstops depending on how the draft falls. And they should take Willits if he is there.
Edit: One more thing. National writers who say that the Pirates are going college may not be recognizing that the new scouting director took a huge gamble last year with Griffin at 9 —- a risky, un-Piratey thing to do —- and it’s paid off big time so far. So I am hoping that this is a new tendency, and that they’ll take a similar approach this year, depending on how the first five picks play out.
2nd through 3rd round, Taitn Gray, Josiah Hartshorn, and Josh Owens. I hope they make it to the pirates picks, Owens and Gray probably won't make it to the compB pick, maybe not even pick 50. I think Owens goes in the compA round or the top of the 2nd.
Someone posted that after the symmetry of being shutout by the M's following shutting out the Cards, we'd likely be blown out in three games by the Royals to balance the Mets series. Off to a remarkably good start on that prediction.
In any case, still looking forward to watching Keller tonight. Could it be his last start with us? I doubt Ben would trade him before the deadline but if he's planning to trade him, doing so over the All Star Break would make sense for the acquiring team.
I'm still opposed to moving him but I'm thinking it's becoming more and more likely that Ben will make a move out of desperation to save his job--Nutting would have to like the salary relief while Ben could tout the return before that return has had an opportunity to show that they can actually hit MLB pitching.
I fear a Chris Archer repeat or, more likely with BC, a poor return. They don’t have to trade him, especially right now. They could wait until the offseason.
In retrospect, I don't think the Archer deal turned out nearly as poorly as it is often discussed. You know what did turn out poorly for a team trading with the Rays? Cleveland 1-for-1 trading Junior Caminero for Tobias Myers.
You can only focus on the latter. Circumstances have made it somewhat less painful, but each of the three we gave up, also had very strong value at different points. so don’t discount what each could have returned in future trades too. Pretty sure Pirates could have used a 4 WAR outfielder and Glasnow’s injuries have held him back but he is paid over 30 million a years by the Dodgers. BAZ is 8-4 this year though just 0.6 WAR but still getting established. It was truly mindnumbingly stupid.
Exactly. Before Meadows had to leave the game to get right, he realized his potential (and I believe was traded for Paredes who did well for the Rays for a while). Baz and Glasnow have obviously been impacted by injuries, but those post-trade should not be taken into account when evaluating the trade, itself.
To be clear, Nola wasn’t saying anything more than the fact that, given injuries and circumstances, the trade didn’t turn out to be terrible. But, the Archer trade is rightfully criticized as a horrendous trade.
I just think it was more so a horrendous trade in retrospect because it was predicated on he "fit the Pirates mold" as someone who could be "fixed by Uncle Ray", when in reality they were working off of outdated pitching philosophies.
I am totally wordsmithing.. sorry J-Ro... but this is more in reaction to other posts not necessarily just yours. I don't care if he acquired them or they are from past regimes, once the trade is consummated they are just another player in the system. I do agree I would rather give a MLB opportunity to players in AAA vs. just signing some stop gap vet as replacements for players (rentals) dealt at the deadline. I do hope they some how can select those that appear to have made some case they deserve the shot whether based on past success (Jack) or maybe recent hot streaks (Cook). However, I do prefer they get regular AAA at bats vs. being called up to start once a week.
Yes sorry, I meant do this with some form of legitimacy...if SS, LF, and ??? open up, then give someone a dedicated look at them, even if the AAA numbers are not indicative of success...not just randomly plug in the roster day-to-day (which I fear will be the case).
No sorry needed and I worded as I did on purpose. I just felt recently there have been too many times where the reason for promotion was that they were part of a trade or considered a prospect at some point. Even with roster spots potentially opening, there still needs to be some 'earning' of the shot. If rentals (position for this discussion) are all traded or released without a doubt there will be openings. To your point I don't want guys just rotting on the bench. I am not even opposed to basically saying.. player A you will get August and player B you will get September to prove yourselves. Kind of silly but it can take away a level of anxiety (a player goes 0-4 and gets banished) away.
A counter example of why not to trade Keller: https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/top-pitching-prospects-review-jul-7-2025/ this years' preseason top pitching prospects have not pitched well as a group aside from Ashcraft who's in middle relief.
Sorry if this is old news, but just saw Oneil is in the derby. That might be fun!!
the reverse Derby jinx, exactly what we need.
Can you strike out in the home run derby?
I trust he'll find a way. Would be hilarious if they had a lefty pitch to him, too.
Looking at Stuff+, Skenes should really throw a few more sliders and curves.
Passan has a clickbait Skenes trade article up on MLB I won't link to but he does have a trade from the Tigers I think I'd not be sad about:
Kevin McGonigle
Max Clark,
Colt Keith
Jackson Jobe
Sawyer Gipson-Long (who I originally forgot)
for Skenes. BTV thinks that's a huge overpay (200 to 130 surplus value). McGonigle has done nothing but hit and STEAMER thinks he could come up and put up a 87 wRC+ right now as a 20 year old. Not sure what we'd do with Keith and Gonzales on the same roster. At least Keith's a lefty. Clark is also destroying the ball as a 20 year old in A+ and STEAMER thinks he could put up a 76 wRC+ right now (giving Konnor Griffin a 62 wRC+). Would still have the makings of a very strong rotation with Chandler, Jobe, Jones, Oviedo, etc
It’s probably too late to post this seeing the discussion below, but a couple contextual points about this article:
It was written by David Schoenfeld, not Jeff Passan, and it appears on ESPN behind the paywall. Schoenfeld’s premise was to ask why don’t we get wild and crazy superstar trades in MLB like we do in the NBA. So just for argument’s sake, he took three star players —- Skenes, Acuna, Jr,, and Bryan Buxton —- and developed three potential offers for each one based on current needs of the trading teams. He was not in any way suggesting that there was even a remote possibility that these trades would take place.
Oh, sure, I just saw Passan's face and missed Shoenfeld's byline. I didn't say it was going to happen, either. Just that I sort of liked the Tigers deal. Not paywalled for me, either: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45689613/mlb-2025-trade-deadline-proposal-offer-paul-skenes-ronald-acuna-jr-byron-buxton
Was David Schoenfeld passed out drunk at a bar for the last 3 years when Burnes, Soto (twice), Devers, and Tucker were all traded.
He mentioned Soto and Devers. He did not mention Betts, which is another example. Burnes and Tucker are not in the same category.
You have to admit that the NBA trade deadline and early off season is far crazier than anything that happens in MLB.
NFL occasionally sneaks one in. Your own Stillers.
If that's your team.
Damn. That's not exciting as Skenes is getting traded. Wonder if Hotlanta or the Twin Cities are 142 comments deep in hypothetical debate.
Clearly not as rabid of a fanbase. There are dozens of us!
We should team up with the never nudes and see if we can reach Hanks batting average. Should take long to get to 208.
Hear me out. What if Nutting sells this winter to a quintillionaire and we extend Skenes and go heavy in the free agent market? Turn into the Mets but better since we swept them recently.
Since most of the high priced golfers playing on LIV Tour now want to come back to the PGA Tour, maybe we can convince the Saudi prince of darkness to put that money into Pirates baseball?
I haven't heard that any of the LIV players want to come back to PGA Tour. There may be statements they want all the best players to compete against each other, in theory, but they all seem to love the LIV format and schedule.
They are doing that in the Premier League in England. See Man City and Newcastle.
Easy on the shrooms buddy.
I know, right? Save some for the rest of us.
Per Sportrac the Pirates are 26th in MLB with an $88M payroll. It is not unreasonable at all to get #20 KC at $125M or #22 CIN at $116M. The Pirates org has been historically awful at maximizing revenue streams—mostly TV deals. Just do that and I’m happy. Put two $15M bats in this lineup and it changes everything.
As an aside, 2 of the teams with lower payroll than the Pirates are playing in minor-league stadiums this season and 2 are actively tanking. Only 2 of these teams have a worse record than the Pirates. Another aside, the Pirates have the least amount of payroll on the IL of any major-league team. So the Pirates have the lowest payroll of any team that has a stadium to play in and are not actively tanking.
The team is very healthy (by MLB standards) and is still being outperformed by a team playing in minor-league stadium and a team that is actively tanking.
How the heck do the Rockies habitually suck nuts too. Another team with a pretty ballpark who continually suck. At least they can legally get stoned and laugh at their teams performance.
One of the owner's son is the Scouting Director and another is the Director of Operations. He uses his team as a job fare for his kids.
I always did like Charlie Blackmon. Was a fantasy baseball stud in his prime.
P.S. If we had Aaron Judge our payroll would still be less than KC.
They should try and pitch helping Skenes win a World Series to Kyle Tucker this offseason. Skenes, Chandler, Ashcraft, Jones, Oviedo, Barco, all projected below 4 ERA as low as 2 for a killer rotation. Then you've just got to convince him they'd add a few other guys on offense around him. Pitch him the trade and acquisition targets they'd ideally hope to sign if he signed. Show him footage of the games and attendance this year and then show him the Cueto game and have him imagine bringing postseason winning back to Pittsburgh. Footage of Clemente and all the old timers. I know I'm dreaming but he's one bat this offeason that could move the needle.
Perfect selling point. That Cueto game was a Pirate highlight of mine probably since Candy arm Bonds and Bream.
Sanchez batting title and Cutch MVP year were exciting. Anything else?
I still get chills thinking of that game….
I'd be into it but feel it's low odds.
Yeah. It's a damn shame. Sure would like to bust out the Freddy Sanchez tshirt jersey that's deep in the dresser. I'd even learn how to iron to make sure she is crisp.
i had some change left over in a bitcoin wallet after a nefarious purchase in like 2011. help me remember the password and we might be in business.
We should crowd source this on BoD and buy Bob out.....only need 51%.
PufFpUffgive69?
I am more hoping the CBA puts in some type of spending floor after 2026.
Nutting thinks he can play a significant role representing the interests of small market teams for the next CBA. We'll see, but in any case if we have any hope of him selling it will be after the CBA when he either fails and no longer can fool himself into thinking he has a more significant role or he succeeds and the team is worth even more due to a friendlier CBA.
I would think his main objective is to how to find a way for small markets to profit. Getting a small market team to win is something I am guessing he would sell out for.
It looked pretty good at first reading McGonigle and Clark. Keith is beginning to look like he just might be an average player, but do we want his contract with that? If we are trading Skenes, do we really want a pitcher with an ERA in the 4's that is going to miss this year and probably all of next with Tommy John?
This is so effing silly. they. are. not. trading. skenes.
Nor should they. If they do, I'm out for good.
We get a generational talent, and we want to trade him.
Give it 1 -2 more years and SKENES will be gone
He’s gone after ‘28 at latest. And we might miss one of those years in the name of greed, if there’s a strike or lockout.
Just thinking about it pisses me off.
I see it more as an exercise in calculating just how crazy good Skenes is by coming up with theoretical, far-out trade packages.
I was in this boat. I didn't take this as clickbait or that this is remotely going to happen. He took 3 players who would take significant return and had fun with it. The Tigers example above was a great example, how much would they give to take their team to potentially another level. I look back at the Cutch MVP level years and I was totally against trading Taillon/ Bell etc. and they were top prospects. In hindsight I would gladly have traded away the future (it was bad anyway) for what those players could have provided in return with a somewhat safe assumption the Pirates would have avoided the one game elimination. I have those same debates with myself now for the Skenes window.
Take your grubby mitts off Bubba and Konnor!
That was me in the Cutch years... big difference of course is that the Cutch years were a playoff bound team vs. well... whatever this is. Now I have used Bubba many times in 'what-ifs' and I'll always throw out the what if Red Sox would give us Anthony or Nats would give us Crews for Bubba. Not saying either would... but that is why anybody can be considered in trades.
I never take, Should we trade X? as a real question because we don’t know the return. I’d trade Skenes if the return was loony enough, I suppose. But you don’t go out thinking, We’re trading Mitch Keller. You start from the return, not the cost.
You've likely heard me say before (so in total agreement) that nobody can be considered untouchable. That is just bad business. So while I am firmly in the don't trade Skenes NOW camp, you look at this just playing around proposal and they (new GM) would have to look at it and have internal debates.
I think if we want to do something in the play-offs, we need Skenes. I probably am higher on Keller than most people, but I think Skenes-Keller make a good 1-2.
It would take an overpay for me to trade Keller. If we trade Keller, Bednar, Santana, Hayes for prospects alll we are doing is building for the next window... which is after Skenes is gone. If that's the route we take, go ahead and trade Skenes too.
If I had my choice, I would like us to keep all of our good players and have an owner willing to pay for some hitters.
Doesn't Paul have two more years of control after Bednar and Santana will be gone?
Unless they're literally all-in for 2026, this one seems like something they've gotta do.
Good point. I'm more venting than being logical. It bothered me that guys like Carlos Santana, Jose Quintana, Aroldis Chapman and others were considered gone (and never coming back) because their contracts ran out. We could actually pay them fair value and keep them.
Now we are looking at guys like Bednar, Santana, IKF, Heaney and others as good as gone. When in fact, many of those guys would probably stay if we could simply offer them a fair contract.
And yes. I 100% think they should be all in on 2026.
Santana is like wine since leaving. Chaps is closing for the BoSox I think. Bites ass that soon as we sign Heaney, the lefty I can't think of who now pitches for the Angels and others we know they are gone around Steelers training camp. It's tiring. If I didn't grow up during Leyland I'm not sure if even check their box scores.
preach it, brother.
3 years of arbitration after Bednar and Santana hit free agency. If they can get high upside guys that might debut next year but add value in '27, then they should consider it.
I'm not too sure there is going to be a '27 for baseball. I'm for sure not booking any spring training trip a year in advance.
I don't _want_ to trade him. I also don't want to watch him go 7-14 every year on losing teams because Nutting won't put any bats around him. I think I'd rather see him win elsewhere than watch that.
I want a reason to go the games...Colt Keith and Max Clark are not going to generate clicks at the turnstile.
You trade Skenes and they'll burn that place to the ground and I'll be there with the gasoline.
https://youtu.be/0XVCc5zwPlU?si=-2-V_xYAEQ33_JGE
Folks would come watch a team that won games and a more balanced roster with guys like Griffin and Clark and McGonigle and Chandler and all the other pitchers might actually do that. Skenes and zero bats unfortunately will lose too many 1-0 games.
I agree. If they are winning people will come. Like Field of Dreams. I remember Cutch "Amazon Prime" days going home and seeing Pirates gear all around. Went home a few years ago and it was no where to be found. Fans are looking for a reason to wear their Jason Bay t-shirt jersey on the dahntahn.
Agree.. winning games helps attendance way more than anything else. To get my vote in.. with the hopes of a new GM I am fully against trading Skenes NOW. Flash ahead 2 years and it will always be a fair debate. IMO unicorns like Skenes will never sign in the smaller markets. The best small markets (TB I'll vote for) just know how to thread that needle of when to cash in and reload on the fly.
prospects are suspects. trading skenes for a bunch of suspects and colt keith.
Do that and PNC will be a graveyard.
I think even given Rainers injury I'd prefer McGonigle, Clark, Rainer and Briceno. Same exact package value but all of them line up with Griffin better than Keith and Jobe while Keith lines up better for Detroit's current roster.
The four you prefer plus Jobe. It would take a big overpay. The three healthy players debut in double A this week, Rainer is down with the shoulder until next year and Jobe probably won't be back until '27 after TJS.
I'd still have a hard time trading Skenes and don't think the organization would consider it.
That'd rival the Soto deal and it's the same value as the deal Passan suggests. Who knows how Rainer and Jobe come back though. Pirates luck their arms fall off during rehab.
I would do that in a heartbeat and for Detroit I would as well. The combo of Skubal and Skenes might win them a championship if not several.
Keith Law on Konnor Griffin:
Griffin still bars his lead arm, making up for it right now because he starts his hands so quickly and is strong enough to rip the bat through the zone, but I worry about him adjusting against better pitchers who can change speeds more on him where he’s already committed to a path because of that locked elbow.
He was substantially better at shortstop than I expected, with a quick first step and good hands, along with the plus-plus arm he showed as a pitcher in high school. Sunday’s game was a pitching debacle; the final score was 13-7 and Greensboro had 15 hits and drew five walks.
appreciate this
Not concerned about the arm bar. That's a power move. His hand-eye coordination is exceptional. Hit on kid.
Like the SS observation. If he can stick at short as a solid defender that’s all the more potential value there.
Kiley McDaniel weights in with his final draft prospect ranking. It’s worth reading if you are an ESPN subscriber as he gives the best and worst case scenarios for his top prospects.
His top three, all 55 FV, are in order Anderson, Holliday, and Willits. He notes that Willits is the kind of player who tends to be undervalued by the industry as he doesn’t have one flashy tool, but is very good to excellent across the board. And he’s 17. McDaniel compares him to Kevin McGonigle, the Tigers prospect from last year’s draft.
50 FV tier in order: Hernandez, Arnold, Doyle, Parker, Carlson, and Arquette. Since Arquette is being frequently mocked to the Pirates, partially because they supposedly are leaning to college to beef up the team around Skenes, I’ll note that McDaniel says the downside risk with Arquette is that he has to move to third base and doesn’t have the bat to ball skills or pitch recognition to be a dominant major league hitter. He didn’t use this comp, but the risk is that he’s Jeff King. The upside is that he stays at short and hits 30 HRs a year.
I continue to hope that the Pirates go straight best player available, and take one of the high school shortstops depending on how the draft falls. And they should take Willits if he is there.
Edit: One more thing. National writers who say that the Pirates are going college may not be recognizing that the new scouting director took a huge gamble last year with Griffin at 9 —- a risky, un-Piratey thing to do —- and it’s paid off big time so far. So I am hoping that this is a new tendency, and that they’ll take a similar approach this year, depending on how the first five picks play out.
Jeff King LETS F'N GO!
Imagine a Jeff King who enjoyed playing baseball and didn't want to retire to hunt.
I still hope they take Hernandez if he's there but Willits and Parker are still in my top 4 along with Holliday.
If Willits and Hernandez were available at pick 6 it might take a coin flip to decide it at the time of the pick.
I can already hear Greg Brown saying “what you talkin about, Willits?!” after a huge hit and I want to rip my ears off.
Then those are now my favorites as well.
2nd through 3rd round, Taitn Gray, Josiah Hartshorn, and Josh Owens. I hope they make it to the pirates picks, Owens and Gray probably won't make it to the compB pick, maybe not even pick 50. I think Owens goes in the compA round or the top of the 2nd.
Is it pronounced Titan? There was an American gladiator with that name, right?
It’s similar to Favre and pronounced “Taint” ;)
I think there was a Titan in American Gladiators, so maybe he's a national youth weightlifting champion.
He's about the same size as Konnor Griffin, just not as fast but maybe a bit stronger, (hard to believe) and over a year younger.
i'm all in on parker. get the twins!
Someone posted that after the symmetry of being shutout by the M's following shutting out the Cards, we'd likely be blown out in three games by the Royals to balance the Mets series. Off to a remarkably good start on that prediction.
In any case, still looking forward to watching Keller tonight. Could it be his last start with us? I doubt Ben would trade him before the deadline but if he's planning to trade him, doing so over the All Star Break would make sense for the acquiring team.
I'm still opposed to moving him but I'm thinking it's becoming more and more likely that Ben will make a move out of desperation to save his job--Nutting would have to like the salary relief while Ben could tout the return before that return has had an opportunity to show that they can actually hit MLB pitching.
Trade him only for a top 100 hitting prospect or young mlb equivalent.
More likely 3 players in a particular teams top 10 - 20 prospects (but none in the top 100 of MLB) that all have 6 years of control....
I fear a Chris Archer repeat or, more likely with BC, a poor return. They don’t have to trade him, especially right now. They could wait until the offseason.
In retrospect, I don't think the Archer deal turned out nearly as poorly as it is often discussed. You know what did turn out poorly for a team trading with the Rays? Cleveland 1-for-1 trading Junior Caminero for Tobias Myers.
Agree. If you focus on the results and not the process, it wasn’t so bad.
If you focus on the process, it was a mind numbingly stupid trade.
You can only focus on the latter. Circumstances have made it somewhat less painful, but each of the three we gave up, also had very strong value at different points. so don’t discount what each could have returned in future trades too. Pretty sure Pirates could have used a 4 WAR outfielder and Glasnow’s injuries have held him back but he is paid over 30 million a years by the Dodgers. BAZ is 8-4 this year though just 0.6 WAR but still getting established. It was truly mindnumbingly stupid.
Exactly. Before Meadows had to leave the game to get right, he realized his potential (and I believe was traded for Paredes who did well for the Rays for a while). Baz and Glasnow have obviously been impacted by injuries, but those post-trade should not be taken into account when evaluating the trade, itself.
To be clear, Nola wasn’t saying anything more than the fact that, given injuries and circumstances, the trade didn’t turn out to be terrible. But, the Archer trade is rightfully criticized as a horrendous trade.
I just think it was more so a horrendous trade in retrospect because it was predicated on he "fit the Pirates mold" as someone who could be "fixed by Uncle Ray", when in reality they were working off of outdated pitching philosophies.
I agree...dump the rentals and bring up the other middling AAAA guys he's acquired to play out the string.
I am totally wordsmithing.. sorry J-Ro... but this is more in reaction to other posts not necessarily just yours. I don't care if he acquired them or they are from past regimes, once the trade is consummated they are just another player in the system. I do agree I would rather give a MLB opportunity to players in AAA vs. just signing some stop gap vet as replacements for players (rentals) dealt at the deadline. I do hope they some how can select those that appear to have made some case they deserve the shot whether based on past success (Jack) or maybe recent hot streaks (Cook). However, I do prefer they get regular AAA at bats vs. being called up to start once a week.
Yes sorry, I meant do this with some form of legitimacy...if SS, LF, and ??? open up, then give someone a dedicated look at them, even if the AAA numbers are not indicative of success...not just randomly plug in the roster day-to-day (which I fear will be the case).
No sorry needed and I worded as I did on purpose. I just felt recently there have been too many times where the reason for promotion was that they were part of a trade or considered a prospect at some point. Even with roster spots potentially opening, there still needs to be some 'earning' of the shot. If rentals (position for this discussion) are all traded or released without a doubt there will be openings. To your point I don't want guys just rotting on the bench. I am not even opposed to basically saying.. player A you will get August and player B you will get September to prove yourselves. Kind of silly but it can take away a level of anxiety (a player goes 0-4 and gets banished) away.