BART is a long term solution since we have 3 other catchers and it gives him a home on the days he’s not catching. Especially against leftie pitchers cuz Endy can bat right also.
Somewhat relevant to the Horwitz trade, DKPS quoted Cherington as saying "I don't care as much about winning trades. I care about do we have enough good players to win games."
I get what he's saying as improving the team should be the focus of trades, but it did raise a yellow flag about whether he may be too quick to give up talent to get a player he wants.
OTOH, my bigger complaint about Cherington is that he's too risk-averse which seems more in line with someone who doesn't pull the trigger on trade unless he thinks he'll win the trade.
Maybe he's trying to stake out a middle ground--he doesn't care much about winning trades as long as they don't involve top prospects so he has no problem dealing guys like Kennedy, McAdoo, or Shim, but if a target would require parting with someone like Ashcraft, Harrington, or Johnson, then he's not going to take that risk. I have mixed feelings about such an approach.
I’m no fan of BC’s ultra conservative approach to filling holes in the roster through FA or trade, but in fairness nowadays no GM is dealing top 40 overall prospects. And only guys like Soto and probably Skenes in a few years are bringing in multiple top 100 prospects.
Yes, I wouldn't want Ben to deal a top 40 overall, but maybe a team top 10. Of course we all have our favorites in the top 10. For example, Bubba is out as a top 40 overall but I also wouldn't want to see them deal Termarr (love the attitude) or Harrington (love how highly regarded he is by our other pitchers). Griffin would be tough, but if he's what it took to land an impact player that lines up with Skenes' time with us, I could see doing that trade. The rest I'd be okay with if the return is, again, an impact player that helps us take full advantage of one or more of the Skenes years.
I want to see Yorke and Bart (maybe Davis) getting a look see at 1st. I like Cook there but I think his value is outfield defense and hopefully his short side platoon abilities. Valdez should get a look as well.
No doubt John. However like many here I do agree that his bat is the problem so far not the glove. I do think playing everyday in some capacity is a have to for Davis though if he's ever going to succeed. May have to bite the bullet with him.
Endy Rodriguez is a switch hitter who has played 1B ever since coming to the US for the Mets in 2 seasons, and for the Pirates at just about every level of the minors since we acquired him. Why did the Mets start to play him at 1B in the Appy League? Because their Catcher, Francisco Alvarez, was the starting Catcher and MVP in the League. They wanted to get ERod's bat in the lineup and did not want to take Alvarez out, therefore 1B.
Billy Cook played 42 games at 1B in AAA for B'more last year with a .994 Fld%.
I doubt that Henry Davis has ever played 1B. If he could play 1B, the Pirates would not have had him in RF. Nunez is a good defensive 1B, but not sure his bat is ready.
Endy isnt going to hit enough to play 1B and with his pre-injury pop time and arm, he is the best C of the 3. It needs to be Bart or Davis or they could stop fooling around with Cutch at DH.
I agree that ERod could be our best C, but the GM and his buddy who sits in the dugout have committed to play Joey Bart at that position. Not arguing it if he continues to hit like he did last year. That's why I would go with the best defenders at 1B in Cook and ERod. We need Cook's bat in the lineup - even though RH, he had a 777 OPS against RHP's in the Minors last year with 12 HR in ~350 AB.
100% with you on this. He and Bart should be getting time at 1B all spring.
Triolo has no value at 1B.
Davis could be the long term answer at the position- I like Horwitz, but find it crazy that the FO is acting like he is an established major leaguer at this point. Instead of throwing crap against the wall until Horwitz is ready to go, why not see if Davis and Bart can play the position adequately first and hope the bats play? (Obviously, Bart will also catch, but I’m hoping Endy busts out in the box and behind the plate to be the lead catcher by the end of the year.)
Thank you on the Triolo at first nonsense. Not nearly enough ceiling with the bat there. Henry isn’t ideal either, but since he’s like the 9th best defensive catcher they have, there is no other spot for him.
I know I might be setting myself up to get my heart broken, but I still believe in Henry. The ability to mash is in there and you can’t help but root for someone who works as hard as him. We couldn’t possibly be so lucky as pirates fans to have this opportunity for playing time open up a chance for Hank to break out….right…right?
If the management believe in Jack or Henry there would be no Pham or Cutch signing. Davis could have DH’d and catch with Jack starting in the outfield. Just my thoughts. Could of signed a reliever for that extra 9 mill
I can't go there Dave. I think Cutch is a Nutting signing due to putting asses in seats, and Pham is a Shelton signing because he can't go one year without having a declining vet in his starting lineup every single day. Their feelings on Jack and Henry have little to do with those signings IMO.
I agree Brian. Further, good teams don’t just rely on prospects that haven’t shown they can do it yet. Now we can quibble (being nice) about the vets they brought in, but the young guys have to win those spots or we are even more fucked than usual.
Easy to be pessimistic seeing this list, but Im hopeful the open competition will cause one or two of these guys to thrive. Fingers crossed.
Look at it this way -- if Horwitz had had surgery a couple months ago, Cherington would have signed another sub-replacement FA to replace him.
BART is a long term solution since we have 3 other catchers and it gives him a home on the days he’s not catching. Especially against leftie pitchers cuz Endy can bat right also.
Somewhat relevant to the Horwitz trade, DKPS quoted Cherington as saying "I don't care as much about winning trades. I care about do we have enough good players to win games."
I get what he's saying as improving the team should be the focus of trades, but it did raise a yellow flag about whether he may be too quick to give up talent to get a player he wants.
OTOH, my bigger complaint about Cherington is that he's too risk-averse which seems more in line with someone who doesn't pull the trigger on trade unless he thinks he'll win the trade.
Maybe he's trying to stake out a middle ground--he doesn't care much about winning trades as long as they don't involve top prospects so he has no problem dealing guys like Kennedy, McAdoo, or Shim, but if a target would require parting with someone like Ashcraft, Harrington, or Johnson, then he's not going to take that risk. I have mixed feelings about such an approach.
I’m no fan of BC’s ultra conservative approach to filling holes in the roster through FA or trade, but in fairness nowadays no GM is dealing top 40 overall prospects. And only guys like Soto and probably Skenes in a few years are bringing in multiple top 100 prospects.
Yes, I wouldn't want Ben to deal a top 40 overall, but maybe a team top 10. Of course we all have our favorites in the top 10. For example, Bubba is out as a top 40 overall but I also wouldn't want to see them deal Termarr (love the attitude) or Harrington (love how highly regarded he is by our other pitchers). Griffin would be tough, but if he's what it took to land an impact player that lines up with Skenes' time with us, I could see doing that trade. The rest I'd be okay with if the return is, again, an impact player that helps us take full advantage of one or more of the Skenes years.
The lack of urgency to take advantage of Skenes window is what’s most frustrating. If not now, when?
I want to see Yorke and Bart (maybe Davis) getting a look see at 1st. I like Cook there but I think his value is outfield defense and hopefully his short side platoon abilities. Valdez should get a look as well.
Well that it a pretty Shitty looking list!!
But it’s deep shit!!
Cherington ain't no honey dipper.
True that WTM
BCFC checking in because that’s Billy Cook’s walk up music I’m hearing!!!!!!
As a member of the BCFC, I’d rather he play mostly in the OF and take the position from Pham eventually. I really believe in the defense and arm.
🤮
Justin Turner is still out there. Old as dirt but still better than most of our lineup.
Not buying Henry Davis a 1B mitt is borderline malpractice at this point. They can't afford to give up on a #1 overall this quickly.
No doubt John. However like many here I do agree that his bat is the problem so far not the glove. I do think playing everyday in some capacity is a have to for Davis though if he's ever going to succeed. May have to bite the bullet with him.
Endy Rodriguez is a switch hitter who has played 1B ever since coming to the US for the Mets in 2 seasons, and for the Pirates at just about every level of the minors since we acquired him. Why did the Mets start to play him at 1B in the Appy League? Because their Catcher, Francisco Alvarez, was the starting Catcher and MVP in the League. They wanted to get ERod's bat in the lineup and did not want to take Alvarez out, therefore 1B.
Billy Cook played 42 games at 1B in AAA for B'more last year with a .994 Fld%.
I doubt that Henry Davis has ever played 1B. If he could play 1B, the Pirates would not have had him in RF. Nunez is a good defensive 1B, but not sure his bat is ready.
Endy isnt going to hit enough to play 1B and with his pre-injury pop time and arm, he is the best C of the 3. It needs to be Bart or Davis or they could stop fooling around with Cutch at DH.
I agree that ERod could be our best C, but the GM and his buddy who sits in the dugout have committed to play Joey Bart at that position. Not arguing it if he continues to hit like he did last year. That's why I would go with the best defenders at 1B in Cook and ERod. We need Cook's bat in the lineup - even though RH, he had a 777 OPS against RHP's in the Minors last year with 12 HR in ~350 AB.
-0.6 last year as a catcher, I shudder to think what that might look like at 1b!!!!!!
It’d look like a Cherington signing.
100% with you on this. He and Bart should be getting time at 1B all spring.
Triolo has no value at 1B.
Davis could be the long term answer at the position- I like Horwitz, but find it crazy that the FO is acting like he is an established major leaguer at this point. Instead of throwing crap against the wall until Horwitz is ready to go, why not see if Davis and Bart can play the position adequately first and hope the bats play? (Obviously, Bart will also catch, but I’m hoping Endy busts out in the box and behind the plate to be the lead catcher by the end of the year.)
Thank you on the Triolo at first nonsense. Not nearly enough ceiling with the bat there. Henry isn’t ideal either, but since he’s like the 9th best defensive catcher they have, there is no other spot for him.
I know I might be setting myself up to get my heart broken, but I still believe in Henry. The ability to mash is in there and you can’t help but root for someone who works as hard as him. We couldn’t possibly be so lucky as pirates fans to have this opportunity for playing time open up a chance for Hank to break out….right…right?
If the management believe in Jack or Henry there would be no Pham or Cutch signing. Davis could have DH’d and catch with Jack starting in the outfield. Just my thoughts. Could of signed a reliever for that extra 9 mill
I can't go there Dave. I think Cutch is a Nutting signing due to putting asses in seats, and Pham is a Shelton signing because he can't go one year without having a declining vet in his starting lineup every single day. Their feelings on Jack and Henry have little to do with those signings IMO.
I agree Brian. Further, good teams don’t just rely on prospects that haven’t shown they can do it yet. Now we can quibble (being nice) about the vets they brought in, but the young guys have to win those spots or we are even more fucked than usual.