Jase Bowen has played 135 Games/1,182 inn in CF in the past 3 years. In 2021 at A he played 38 games, 321 inn, 1.000 Fldg %; in 2022 he played 42 games in CF at A and A+, 385 inn, 1.000 Fldg %; in 2023 at A+ and AA he played 55 games, 476 inn, 984 Fldg %. He is our best RH hitting option for CF. Gorski struggled badly at AA this year as a 25 year old, but did better in a short stint at AAA. IMO, If not lost over the off-season, he will start the year at AAA and will need to have a solid first half to get an opportunity in MLB - solid defensively, solid as a hitter, and with a much lower percentage of K's.
What are the Pirates plans with Henry Davis is a key question in all of this?
They stuck him in RF and his defense was bad. Can he be decent out there with a full commitment to it and a full spring training? They assert that he is still a catcher but never let him catch (but for a couple of emergency innings) after the Hedges trade.
Is he a DH/c/rf ? If so, Cutch returning just mucks things up more.
Davis has hard hands, 1b might be a worse position than right field for him. I like his work ethic, bat, arm, athleticism and leadership/enthusiasm but I hope I'm wrong about his glove.
I think he can become an average fielder in right and a very good emergency catcher but his glove will always be a problem. I've played with guys that had hard hands and the toughest ball for them to catch was one hop or picks. It's like a delayed reaction when the ball hits the mit, ball can be right in the pocket but fall out before it's secured.
Yeah... I hope that we all have learned that 1B is not a position at which the Pirates can just stick anyone who does not fit in elsewhere. The firstbaseman handles the ball more than any player on the team except the Pitcher and Catcher. It is a critical defensive position and not everyone has the glove skills to play that position.
A capable First Baseman is the best friend of the other three infielders who make throws to him. He's the guy who saves them errors with his ability to "pick-it" on those throws that are slightly less than perfect. The Pirates have historically used first base as the place to stash hitters who left much to be desired defensively.
They have to come up with something besides RF. Judging by the defensive metrics, he may literally have been the worst defensive player at any position in MLB.
Of course, that sort of mind-numbing failure is Cherington’s specialty. You just have to look at the C and 1B positions last year, or Hedges’ hitting this year, or the team’s hitting wRISP the last four years. Ben & Derry don’t do failure halfway.
Do they? Is it really a good idea to jerk him around again from RF? I think they owe it to him to give him a full season at a new position before pulling the plug on him out there.
He’s never played the outfield before. Judging fly balls off the bat and scooping hard hit grounders are things that have be learned through repetition and just throwing him or anyone else into a completely new position is always going to require a steep learning curve.
If he’s going to be a catcher, let him catch. If he’s going to be the right fielder, he needs to play there and everyone will simply have to deal with his mistakes until he gets it. Good grief, this is not rocket science. All of this assumes he’ll be able to hit at a high level of course.
Yes, but there is no reason at all for him to be learning a position in majors right now. He has all of 79 games at C in the minors (less than 1/2 a season) and 18 games in RF. He actually spent 25% of his time (which is about 1 full season) in the minors as a DH. Why a guy who has been surrounded by question marks on defense spent 25% of his time in the minors DHing is anyone's guess. He needs to start next year in AAA and learn 1 and only 1 position.
WTM is right. The Pirates developmental system is a hot mess when having players learn positions. They have guys playing all over the place to be "versatile" with no regard for how the tools match the positions. Then, because they refuse to try to match tools to position, they start making chaotic, panic-driven decisions when players reach AAA. Well... that is late in the game to start guys in new positions.
I think they had Davis earmarked for DH long before his time in MLB. Problem is that 'Cutch and Joe had an excellent year for the Pirates as the RH DH. Davis needs to be a primary DH who can give relief behind the plate, or at new positions like RF and 1B if games are out of control. He will improve at those positions, but not to a point where he can be a a primary consideration at either.
I would hope they consider sending him to winter ball, but have him focus on one or the other. It would also give him a chance to improve his Spanish, which can be a valuable asset as a catcher.
That's probably a topic on its own I'll explore this offseason. I have never been a fan of him catching, but will say it did look like he took SOME strides this year before making it to Pittsburgh. Whatever it is, they need to stick to it.
If he's a catcher, make him a catcher. I wouldn't really want him at 1B, just because he's fairly athletic and that arm is so good.
It doesn’t work like that, team has different needs, and team that are as far away as the Royals might take bigger chances, you know like we have been doing forever and should try to change course now.
Kansas City has its own Davis with M. J. Melendez. Unlike Davis, however, Melendez is believed to be a very good defensive catcher. I say believed to be, because the Royals have not played him at C and instead have put him in the OF where his bat and defense are subpar (but which would be above average at C).
I think everyone who follows the Royals is mystified as to why Melendez is not catching at least part time (they inexplicably signed Salvador Perez to a long-term 20 million dollar per year deal the year before Melendez made his MLB debut). It is interesting how teams that can't seem to be competitive follow similar paths to incoherence in roster construction.
Not that this is gospel but I think FG said Melendez was subpar behind the plate or got progressively worse. I also wouldn’t hold up KC as some sort of beacon for decision making.
I’m aware of MJ, him being a fellow puertorican and all, but as bad as he is in the outfield he is miles ahead of Davis and not sure if Fermin is for real, but if he is MJ is an outfielder, unless!!!!! They open up 1b for Pratto and Perez and ..... I’m reaching and I know it🥴
BTW... I'm a big Melendez fan, and I think the Royals are wasting him in the OF. But yes... you are right MJ is ahead of Davis in every phase of the game.
The very first thing that Picollo should have done as GM was trade Perez for a 45 grade A-ball prospect. Even with his salary, he had value. He is one of the better defensive catchers in baseball and has a high-end bat for the position. There are a number of big-market teams, such as the Yankees, who are very much in need of a guy like Perez. Even if the prospect doesn't pan out, the move frees up somewhere in the ballpark of $18 million per year to address real positions of need like OF and SP.
Suwinski is STILL absolutely atrocious against LHP. Is he really a full-time starter on a contender?
Sounds to me like they should make a trade for a 2-3 win outfielder they can plug in for 2+ years out there...
intrigued / caustiously optimistic about Bowen & Gorski. Would be great to see Gorskj be the RH Defensive CF to pair with Jack.
If Lonnie can stay healthy he’s our best shot at a star OF prospect
Jase Bowen has played 135 Games/1,182 inn in CF in the past 3 years. In 2021 at A he played 38 games, 321 inn, 1.000 Fldg %; in 2022 he played 42 games in CF at A and A+, 385 inn, 1.000 Fldg %; in 2023 at A+ and AA he played 55 games, 476 inn, 984 Fldg %. He is our best RH hitting option for CF. Gorski struggled badly at AA this year as a 25 year old, but did better in a short stint at AAA. IMO, If not lost over the off-season, he will start the year at AAA and will need to have a solid first half to get an opportunity in MLB - solid defensively, solid as a hitter, and with a much lower percentage of K's.
sending Tank or Endy to Miami for Eury would be impressive
Would probably be more like termarr+ for eury is my guess
would certainly agree to this
reason I suggested endy or tank is because they are in the market for a catcher
What are the Pirates plans with Henry Davis is a key question in all of this?
They stuck him in RF and his defense was bad. Can he be decent out there with a full commitment to it and a full spring training? They assert that he is still a catcher but never let him catch (but for a couple of emergency innings) after the Hedges trade.
Is he a DH/c/rf ? If so, Cutch returning just mucks things up more.
Can he play 1b?
Davis has hard hands, 1b might be a worse position than right field for him. I like his work ethic, bat, arm, athleticism and leadership/enthusiasm but I hope I'm wrong about his glove.
I think he can become an average fielder in right and a very good emergency catcher but his glove will always be a problem. I've played with guys that had hard hands and the toughest ball for them to catch was one hop or picks. It's like a delayed reaction when the ball hits the mit, ball can be right in the pocket but fall out before it's secured.
Yeah... I hope that we all have learned that 1B is not a position at which the Pirates can just stick anyone who does not fit in elsewhere. The firstbaseman handles the ball more than any player on the team except the Pitcher and Catcher. It is a critical defensive position and not everyone has the glove skills to play that position.
A capable First Baseman is the best friend of the other three infielders who make throws to him. He's the guy who saves them errors with his ability to "pick-it" on those throws that are slightly less than perfect. The Pirates have historically used first base as the place to stash hitters who left much to be desired defensively.
They have to come up with something besides RF. Judging by the defensive metrics, he may literally have been the worst defensive player at any position in MLB.
Of course, that sort of mind-numbing failure is Cherington’s specialty. You just have to look at the C and 1B positions last year, or Hedges’ hitting this year, or the team’s hitting wRISP the last four years. Ben & Derry don’t do failure halfway.
Do they? Is it really a good idea to jerk him around again from RF? I think they owe it to him to give him a full season at a new position before pulling the plug on him out there.
He’s never played the outfield before. Judging fly balls off the bat and scooping hard hit grounders are things that have be learned through repetition and just throwing him or anyone else into a completely new position is always going to require a steep learning curve.
If he’s going to be a catcher, let him catch. If he’s going to be the right fielder, he needs to play there and everyone will simply have to deal with his mistakes until he gets it. Good grief, this is not rocket science. All of this assumes he’ll be able to hit at a high level of course.
Yes, but there is no reason at all for him to be learning a position in majors right now. He has all of 79 games at C in the minors (less than 1/2 a season) and 18 games in RF. He actually spent 25% of his time (which is about 1 full season) in the minors as a DH. Why a guy who has been surrounded by question marks on defense spent 25% of his time in the minors DHing is anyone's guess. He needs to start next year in AAA and learn 1 and only 1 position.
WTM is right. The Pirates developmental system is a hot mess when having players learn positions. They have guys playing all over the place to be "versatile" with no regard for how the tools match the positions. Then, because they refuse to try to match tools to position, they start making chaotic, panic-driven decisions when players reach AAA. Well... that is late in the game to start guys in new positions.
Davis is exhibit A. O'Neil Cruz is exhibit B.
When you go out of your way to show you don't care about winning games, playing guys at new positions in the majors is an easy step.
I think they had Davis earmarked for DH long before his time in MLB. Problem is that 'Cutch and Joe had an excellent year for the Pirates as the RH DH. Davis needs to be a primary DH who can give relief behind the plate, or at new positions like RF and 1B if games are out of control. He will improve at those positions, but not to a point where he can be a a primary consideration at either.
I would hope they consider sending him to winter ball, but have him focus on one or the other. It would also give him a chance to improve his Spanish, which can be a valuable asset as a catcher.
That's probably a topic on its own I'll explore this offseason. I have never been a fan of him catching, but will say it did look like he took SOME strides this year before making it to Pittsburgh. Whatever it is, they need to stick to it.
If he's a catcher, make him a catcher. I wouldn't really want him at 1B, just because he's fairly athletic and that arm is so good.
I don’t see a place for Davis, trade him to KC for Vinnie Pasquantino!
If Pirates don’t see a place for him, why would another organization give Pirates a premium player for him?
Much better idea to coach him up at one position.
It doesn’t work like that, team has different needs, and team that are as far away as the Royals might take bigger chances, you know like we have been doing forever and should try to change course now.
Here’s how it doesn’t work, a GM of a bad team doesn’t trade away his top talent for another bad team’s questionable talent.
Whether we like it or not, Davis has a big question mark next to his name right now.
Pasquatch!
Kansas City has its own Davis with M. J. Melendez. Unlike Davis, however, Melendez is believed to be a very good defensive catcher. I say believed to be, because the Royals have not played him at C and instead have put him in the OF where his bat and defense are subpar (but which would be above average at C).
I think everyone who follows the Royals is mystified as to why Melendez is not catching at least part time (they inexplicably signed Salvador Perez to a long-term 20 million dollar per year deal the year before Melendez made his MLB debut). It is interesting how teams that can't seem to be competitive follow similar paths to incoherence in roster construction.
Not that this is gospel but I think FG said Melendez was subpar behind the plate or got progressively worse. I also wouldn’t hold up KC as some sort of beacon for decision making.
I’m aware of MJ, him being a fellow puertorican and all, but as bad as he is in the outfield he is miles ahead of Davis and not sure if Fermin is for real, but if he is MJ is an outfielder, unless!!!!! They open up 1b for Pratto and Perez and ..... I’m reaching and I know it🥴
BTW... I'm a big Melendez fan, and I think the Royals are wasting him in the OF. But yes... you are right MJ is ahead of Davis in every phase of the game.
The very first thing that Picollo should have done as GM was trade Perez for a 45 grade A-ball prospect. Even with his salary, he had value. He is one of the better defensive catchers in baseball and has a high-end bat for the position. There are a number of big-market teams, such as the Yankees, who are very much in need of a guy like Perez. Even if the prospect doesn't pan out, the move frees up somewhere in the ballpark of $18 million per year to address real positions of need like OF and SP.
Perez has no value. He's well below average defensively at this stage of his career.
He was worth -0.3 fWAR last season.
The idea is to use him to fill out an area of need. There’s too much pressure on his bat to be anything special and I have my doubts.