If they hold off until after the 15th, Chandler would still qualify for the ppi next year if he started the year in the majors. He could get the pirates an extra 1st round pick if he won ROY or finished top 3 in CYA or MVP in a 3 year window.
It seems to me 2 or 3 starts extra with the major league team would be terrible asset management for the potential reward. Come August 15th or shortly thereafter bring him up and let him get his feet wet, hopefully he's swimming in the deep end come the start of '26.
He'd have a little more than 6 years service time. Skenes will have just short of 6 when he becomes a free agent.
If we wait until after the 15th we get 1.5 months of 2025 and a full year in 2026 rooting for him to win the CYA and get us a Draft Pick in the 2027 Draft! A great point by Ethan - thanks for sharing.
Have to say I wasn't overly impressed with Chandler last night. Three of the Hens' starters had BAs below Mendoza line and offered no resistance. Seemed the hits off Chandler were mostly hit hard. I didn't see much command of secondary pitches. I guess I was expecting to see more from him at this point.
Nice to see "soon-to-be" Pirate Rotation pieces Bubba Chandler and Johan Oviedo do well last night. Oviedo is coming back off a very strong first season with the Pirates in 2023 where he Started 32 games for the Pirates, 9 - 14 record, 4.31 ERA, with 20.2% K/ 10.6% BB. Lost all of 2024 and a lot of 2025 so far with TJ surgery/rehab. If Mitch Keller is traded as expected, the Rotation would become Skenes, Chandler, Oviedo, Falter, and Burrows with Braxton Ashcraft, Thomas Harrington, and Hunter Barco as ready to come up as needed.
Oviedo and Malcom Nunez came from the Card's in 2022 with Quintana and Stratton going to the Card's for the stretch run. Very nice return for two pitchers who were not going to be with the Pirates beyond 2022.
I agree with all of that, except for the last sentence we have all learned to accept. I dislike the fact that we didn't try to re-sign Carlos Santana the next year for $5 million (went for Rowdy instead). Same with Aroldis Chapman who said he was already to sign with the Pirates again for the same contract, but we didn't try. Quintana was practically let an ace that we let walk for a reasonable 13 mill a year.
My point once a Pirate player is in their option year, we just accept that they will be gone. To be a winner, we eventually need to reward the good players from within. (sorry for the rant) :)
I agree on Santana. Aroldis for double figure millions when Bednar is healthy would have been a GM pit of quicksand. The Pirates have to wake up to the fact that both Milwaukee and Cincy bumped their salary levels up to the $115 - $120 mil range this year. The Pirates have to get up to at least the $110 mil level in 2026 - about a $20 mil increase.
BC "stole" Quintana for a one year $2 mil contract and everybody knew that if he did well for the Pirates he would be going FA. So, keeping him knowing that we would have to jump into the deep water of FA was a decision the Pirates did not want to risk. Getting the much younger Johan Oviedo in exchange was more to the Pirates liking and he performed much, much better for the Pirates than Quintana did for the Mets in 2023. Q only made 13 starts that year for the Mets compared to the workhorse 32 Starts by Oviedo - in hindsight, BC made a very good decision.
One other thing about this is that Players/Pitchers will come to a team like the Pirates because they know they will get reps. But, they all want to leave "if they have done well and are marketable". Hell, put yourself in their shoes - stay with the future-less Pirates or take a chance to go with a team fighting for the playoffs - a no-brainer!
I wasn't really trying to debate which of these players would be smart or not smart to bring back. My point is as Pirate fans we think it is IMPOSSIBLE to bring a player back. I'm not trying to debate whether we should try to keep IKF of Heaney for about the same price they signed for, we just assume they will be gone like they are a Gerrit Cole.
Your other great point I agree with is that these players are coming here to help their own individual stock, not to be a part of the future. If you think about it, that's not a way to build future success.
We traded Santana as well. I loved the Quintana trade and it was smart since we were out of the race. It would have been just as smart to try to sign him the next off-season.
Ethan made a good point earlier today on Chandler, bringing him up on or after the 15th of August might be the right call.
https://x.com/EthanHullihen/status/1948757183027356010
Does that mean:
a) We could get any extra draft pick if he wins rookie of the year.
and
b) He gets one year less of service time if he wins rookie of the year?
If they hold off until after the 15th, Chandler would still qualify for the ppi next year if he started the year in the majors. He could get the pirates an extra 1st round pick if he won ROY or finished top 3 in CYA or MVP in a 3 year window.
It seems to me 2 or 3 starts extra with the major league team would be terrible asset management for the potential reward. Come August 15th or shortly thereafter bring him up and let him get his feet wet, hopefully he's swimming in the deep end come the start of '26.
He'd have a little more than 6 years service time. Skenes will have just short of 6 when he becomes a free agent.
If we wait until after the 15th we get 1.5 months of 2025 and a full year in 2026 rooting for him to win the CYA and get us a Draft Pick in the 2027 Draft! A great point by Ethan - thanks for sharing.
Have to say I wasn't overly impressed with Chandler last night. Three of the Hens' starters had BAs below Mendoza line and offered no resistance. Seemed the hits off Chandler were mostly hit hard. I didn't see much command of secondary pitches. I guess I was expecting to see more from him at this point.
i'm still skeptical of the breaking balls, tbh. these "stuff+" metrics don't mean much to me when the pitch fails to actually produce.
Nice to see "soon-to-be" Pirate Rotation pieces Bubba Chandler and Johan Oviedo do well last night. Oviedo is coming back off a very strong first season with the Pirates in 2023 where he Started 32 games for the Pirates, 9 - 14 record, 4.31 ERA, with 20.2% K/ 10.6% BB. Lost all of 2024 and a lot of 2025 so far with TJ surgery/rehab. If Mitch Keller is traded as expected, the Rotation would become Skenes, Chandler, Oviedo, Falter, and Burrows with Braxton Ashcraft, Thomas Harrington, and Hunter Barco as ready to come up as needed.
Oviedo and Malcom Nunez came from the Card's in 2022 with Quintana and Stratton going to the Card's for the stretch run. Very nice return for two pitchers who were not going to be with the Pirates beyond 2022.
I agree with all of that, except for the last sentence we have all learned to accept. I dislike the fact that we didn't try to re-sign Carlos Santana the next year for $5 million (went for Rowdy instead). Same with Aroldis Chapman who said he was already to sign with the Pirates again for the same contract, but we didn't try. Quintana was practically let an ace that we let walk for a reasonable 13 mill a year.
My point once a Pirate player is in their option year, we just accept that they will be gone. To be a winner, we eventually need to reward the good players from within. (sorry for the rant) :)
I agree on Santana. Aroldis for double figure millions when Bednar is healthy would have been a GM pit of quicksand. The Pirates have to wake up to the fact that both Milwaukee and Cincy bumped their salary levels up to the $115 - $120 mil range this year. The Pirates have to get up to at least the $110 mil level in 2026 - about a $20 mil increase.
BC "stole" Quintana for a one year $2 mil contract and everybody knew that if he did well for the Pirates he would be going FA. So, keeping him knowing that we would have to jump into the deep water of FA was a decision the Pirates did not want to risk. Getting the much younger Johan Oviedo in exchange was more to the Pirates liking and he performed much, much better for the Pirates than Quintana did for the Mets in 2023. Q only made 13 starts that year for the Mets compared to the workhorse 32 Starts by Oviedo - in hindsight, BC made a very good decision.
One other thing about this is that Players/Pitchers will come to a team like the Pirates because they know they will get reps. But, they all want to leave "if they have done well and are marketable". Hell, put yourself in their shoes - stay with the future-less Pirates or take a chance to go with a team fighting for the playoffs - a no-brainer!
I wasn't really trying to debate which of these players would be smart or not smart to bring back. My point is as Pirate fans we think it is IMPOSSIBLE to bring a player back. I'm not trying to debate whether we should try to keep IKF of Heaney for about the same price they signed for, we just assume they will be gone like they are a Gerrit Cole.
Your other great point I agree with is that these players are coming here to help their own individual stock, not to be a part of the future. If you think about it, that's not a way to build future success.
We didn't let Quintana walk we traded him for Oviedo and Malcom Nunez.
We traded Santana as well. I loved the Quintana trade and it was smart since we were out of the race. It would have been just as smart to try to sign him the next off-season.