This is definitely the strength of the organization.
With so many power pitchers in the pipeline, it would be a colossal failure if at least a few didn’t become very good SP’s , with one or two being elite.
With that in mind, do the Pirates…
A. Trade from this depth to bring in a legitimate 1B or RF power hitter?
B. Spend the bulk of their FA SP dollars on the proverbial crafty SP? Preferably of the left hand variety. Is Jordan Montgomery really out of their price range?
How many potential “good” starting pitchers do they have in the system? And also part of this point: how many lumps will they have to take (like Keller) in the hopes they DO turn into good pitchers at the MLB level? Cause we all know this development team ain’t too good at transitioning rookies successfully right away.
This is the definition of overrating your own prospects.
The only way I see the Pirates having a legit number 1 and/or 2 is by drafting them and hoping the talent overcomes their lack of developmental training. If they sign a legit 2/3 starter, it would be very surprising. Therefore, hold on to the guys with above average talent. By the way, I don’t see that many of them, which is not good. Five years into the BC regime and we have Keller and Oviedo as our top guys.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of what you’re saying. The only way they get Skenes or a level of prospect like that is by drafting him.
The fact that you don’t see that many of them IS the problem and why they have to (and should) go externally for at least one starter. It doesn’t mean they should give up on some or all of Q, Ro, Ortiz. But the fact that they haven’t asserted themselves as solutions means they shouldn’t be given a priority either.
The thing about holding onto guys with above average talent is they can still stick those guys in the bullpen too. One thing that used to drive me crazy about NH is his inability to pivot on pitchers who had a hurdle they couldn’t overcome (lack of third pitch, endurance, bad control/command) and move them to the bullpen. If they can make a deal for a 3rd starter and it elbows Ortiz to the pen...that isn’t such a bad thing.
I think this is an extreme risk adverse position you’re taking. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but I believe trading from depth to fill holes in a position where the organization is lean, is a good tactic. One that should be explored this winter.
IMO, the Pirates cannot afford to trade at this point. We have a lot of talented pitchers in the pipeline, but the cupboard is almost bare at the MLB level. Was the trade with TB (Glasnow, Baz, Meadows) to get a proven MLB SP the last time the Pirates traded from strength to get a "sure thing"?
When the Pirates have a full Rotation locked up, maybe then it would be time to trade from a position of strength, but not now. They have the possibility of two SP's (Keller, Oviedo) with about 10 others who could see time in the Pirate Rotation in 2024, including BRU and Mike Burrows coming back off TJ possibly in June or July. We are not in fear of losing any of our top pitching prospects at this time, so why rush?
Sad news about the passing of Neil Walker's father, Tom. He was a fixture at PNC when Neil was playing for the Pirates
Guys who “could see time” in the rotation is the opposite of a good rotation. They can and should either trade for a good starter or sign one. Full stop.
Someone is going to give him 6-7 years because he’s been such a great workhorse. Unfortunately, I just don’t see BN being comfortable taking on that much risk.
Seth lugo and VV wouldnt be the worst SP combo. Would love to think maybe they go out for a bigger 1b upgrade if thats the case but Im not sure I would hold my breath on that either
Braxton Ashcroft can probably rocket up this list with a full healthy season!
This is definitely the strength of the organization.
With so many power pitchers in the pipeline, it would be a colossal failure if at least a few didn’t become very good SP’s , with one or two being elite.
With that in mind, do the Pirates…
A. Trade from this depth to bring in a legitimate 1B or RF power hitter?
B. Spend the bulk of their FA SP dollars on the proverbial crafty SP? Preferably of the left hand variety. Is Jordan Montgomery really out of their price range?
I don’t think the Pirates should entertain trading potential good starting pitchers when it’s highly unlikely they’d ever sign one in free agency.
How many potential “good” starting pitchers do they have in the system? And also part of this point: how many lumps will they have to take (like Keller) in the hopes they DO turn into good pitchers at the MLB level? Cause we all know this development team ain’t too good at transitioning rookies successfully right away.
This is the definition of overrating your own prospects.
The only way I see the Pirates having a legit number 1 and/or 2 is by drafting them and hoping the talent overcomes their lack of developmental training. If they sign a legit 2/3 starter, it would be very surprising. Therefore, hold on to the guys with above average talent. By the way, I don’t see that many of them, which is not good. Five years into the BC regime and we have Keller and Oviedo as our top guys.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of what you’re saying. The only way they get Skenes or a level of prospect like that is by drafting him.
The fact that you don’t see that many of them IS the problem and why they have to (and should) go externally for at least one starter. It doesn’t mean they should give up on some or all of Q, Ro, Ortiz. But the fact that they haven’t asserted themselves as solutions means they shouldn’t be given a priority either.
The thing about holding onto guys with above average talent is they can still stick those guys in the bullpen too. One thing that used to drive me crazy about NH is his inability to pivot on pitchers who had a hurdle they couldn’t overcome (lack of third pitch, endurance, bad control/command) and move them to the bullpen. If they can make a deal for a 3rd starter and it elbows Ortiz to the pen...that isn’t such a bad thing.
I think this is an extreme risk adverse position you’re taking. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but I believe trading from depth to fill holes in a position where the organization is lean, is a good tactic. One that should be explored this winter.
IMO, the Pirates cannot afford to trade at this point. We have a lot of talented pitchers in the pipeline, but the cupboard is almost bare at the MLB level. Was the trade with TB (Glasnow, Baz, Meadows) to get a proven MLB SP the last time the Pirates traded from strength to get a "sure thing"?
When the Pirates have a full Rotation locked up, maybe then it would be time to trade from a position of strength, but not now. They have the possibility of two SP's (Keller, Oviedo) with about 10 others who could see time in the Pirate Rotation in 2024, including BRU and Mike Burrows coming back off TJ possibly in June or July. We are not in fear of losing any of our top pitching prospects at this time, so why rush?
Sad news about the passing of Neil Walker's father, Tom. He was a fixture at PNC when Neil was playing for the Pirates
Guys who “could see time” in the rotation is the opposite of a good rotation. They can and should either trade for a good starter or sign one. Full stop.
does 5/$100 get it done?
Not after this postseason.
agreed
Monty would be a fantastic add. I am sure we could afford him, but i would be shocked if bob ponied up for it
Someone is going to give him 6-7 years because he’s been such a great workhorse. Unfortunately, I just don’t see BN being comfortable taking on that much risk.
Seth Lugo is more likely to be signed for sure.
Seth lugo and VV wouldnt be the worst SP combo. Would love to think maybe they go out for a bigger 1b upgrade if thats the case but Im not sure I would hold my breath on that either
Jones is Strider lite. Hopefully not too lite.
Floor of probably a top end closer, but I hope he can do enough to be a solid starter
Him reverting to basically a fastball/slider guy really had me worried at the end of the season
The fine line for starter success is insane to me.
Like, on the one hand, some guy named Kevin Ginkel we all watched last night pretty clearly has a better fastball-slider combo than Jones.
Does that say more about how close Ginkel is/was to being a good 2-pitch starter or how risky Jones is as a prospect, I have no clue.
Baseball is impossibly hard at the highest level.
Definitely needs a third offering, somebody like strider is very much so the exception not the rule
*Inserts 'yikes' GIF
You’ll see!!!!, 🤪
Healthy debate brewing about Mr. Skenes!
Here's to hoping there is none.
Only debate is whether or not he will win 3 or 15 Cy Youngs in my book
Priester. Oh wait; you asked for the best fastball...
Best meatball maybe... lol
Had a meatball sub the other day. Was delicious lol
If it was a priester special, mustve been extra fatty!
I am Groot.