85 Comments

Thoughts on bolstering the bullpen by adding minter, chafin and Leclerc I am thinking around $18M for all 3. Then $5M for Winker and Cutch. You are at around $101M in payroll. Maybe the best bullpen in baseball, good young rotation and a respectable lineup.

Do we know if Oviedo will be ready for the season and what should we expect as far as innings from burrows? I think one those guys would be the ideal 5th starter to start the season. (If healthy)

What I would love to see is them pull off a trade for a younger controllable OF like Kjerstad and sign Sasaki. Payroll would still around $100M.

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Looks like the Rays droped one of their three 8-figure guys, Jeffy Springs.

Still a chance for Lowe and/or Yandy to go?

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Dec 17Edited

Crap, the Cubs have managed to dump Bellinger, and it looks like it only cost them 5 million. I guess money doesn't mean much to the Yankees, but they were bidding against themselves. Hopefully when more details are known, this will not be the slam dunk for the Cubs that it appears to be.

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Dec 17
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Burnes, I’m guessing. They have a bunch of money coming off the books after 26.

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Can I get an Amen on banning all of these idiot stories coming out of Boston right now about how they're gonna land Jones for a bat?

It usually starts as some guy on some forum making a "proposed deal" and wouldn't that be something? And then Sports Illustrated picks up a Media Muppets story with a headline about the trade, not mentioning until the third or fourth paragraph that it started out when the Pirates traded a 19th rounder for middle infield depth and WHAT IF THEY FOLLOWED UP WITH A BOMB OF A TRADE LIKE THIS, according to some sports geek somewhere....

This is irritating.

These rich-team-A-holes just think (rightly so, I guess) that they can just have anyone whenever they get a hunch.

Gawd.

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I just googled and found a bunch of the stories, and.... bahahahahahaha

It has a lot of Clint Frazier and Miguel Andujar for Cole vibes. My favorite is one article comparing how Abreu and Jones are on "matching team controlled contracts through 2027", which, is just flat out wrong lol

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My favorite mea culpa is the fact that the return Huntington actually got for Cole was far better than what most including myself wanted.

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Shame Big Joe was traded as he was hitting hus stride

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come onnnnn Endy.

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Pirates got a great closer for a couple years, on a bad team, and then refused to trade him before he went bad himself.

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...YET. ;)

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Amen!!! I haven't even seen any of the stories lol although, if they're talking 2 of Roman Anthony, Mayer, and Campbell, I'd be willing to hear it out

But I'm sure the stories surround Jones for their #30 prospect and a wet blanket.

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I’m surprised they are even giving us that much in the rumors.

The Yankees stuff is always the worst. Here take our broken down overpaid first baseman and our number 29 and 62 prospects for Oneil Cruz!

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Roman Anthony, fuck my idea of including Kjerstad- thats a big swing that I could really get behind

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Dec 17
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I wouldn't, recurring back injuries for Marcelo screams avoid.

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Dec 17Edited
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I like him but he had a wrist and back injury in 2022, shoulder for sure in 2023 (Back a maybe, I could have swore I watched an interview with him going over his shoulder injury

and how he is learning his body in which he mentioned his back). Then his back again in 2024.

It might be nothing serious, recurring back issues is still a red flag for me.

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Dec 17
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I don't know if those issues scare me any worse than the fact that we can't fill one hand's worth of fingers with the number of 6' starters who pump it up to 100 with high effort and *haven't* blown out.

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both are rickety, no?

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I’m not sure if Rickety Cricket is available.

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nor is Chase Utley

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man i love yinz guys

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While we are all talking about trading pitching, has anyone else noticed that the Pirates barely have a full complement of pitchers on their 40-man roster (15 pitchers) while carrying 12 infielders and 4 catchers?

Something really needs to happen and soon. It's nice and all that they traded for Horwitz, but they have no bullpen and no LFer. Despite having 10 middle infielders on the roster, they also have no clear starter at 2B and almost no one who plays SS. This is probably the most ridiculous looking 40-man roster that I have ever seen, except for one other year when some team had Cole Tucker starting in RF.

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I’d imagine the bullpen adds are coming later. Probably a matter of seeing who falls into the bargain bin and who can be had on minor league free agent deals. Surely there’s more trades coming as well, and hopefully you can a bullpen arm or two as throw ins. If so, I wholly support this approach.

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There is a big mess in the middle infield that needs sorting out (which gets worse every week as Ben accumulates more castoffs), and no one carries 4 catchers on their roster. They need to decide what to do with Davis, Delay, and Rodriguez, They can't carry 4 Cs for long into the season.

I don't know, man. I hear all these noises about the Pirates being in the race for the division this year, and then I look at the roster and see only 37 players, no bullpen at all, holes everywhere, and about 6 guys who don't belong on a MLB 40-man roster. It's a long season; there is no depth in the upper minors (outside of starting pitching); and the Pirates barely have 26 players who can play major-league baseball without embarrassing themselves.

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It my be an unsavory part of the business but there's probably half a dozen guys currently with a 40-man spot in name only. Clubs constantly cycle these marginal pieces on and off.

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There’s time, man. We’re not even to Festivus, yet and some folks are breathing into a paper bag about picking up Enmanuel Valdez.

Stuff like this is one reason the hot stove can be a bit much. The rush to judgment on each move, no matter how small or minor, doesn’t do a whole lot of good. Because there are more moves to come.

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Full discloser - I have purchased my Festivus pole - just a friendly reminder to those who have not done it yet.

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Festivus begins with the airing of grievances...

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Then how about one festival thread - Anthony???? I admit it will be rightfully long but will allow for full venting but not repetitive venting. I think I basically proposed this during the regular season when the daily game discussions basically morphed into a new Groundhog Day movie.

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An add on to the Valdez over reaction. Keep in mind the winning bid to acquire his services was a 19th round college reliever. How many of those do we think made it to the majors(I am clearly too lazy to do the research but I am not worried about the results)? If Pirates wanted to hang on to him but take him off the 40 man, there is a chance he would make it through although he seems like the type somebody would claim and possibly try the same process again.

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I’d also point out every team makes moves like this. If they are bringing him in and saying “hey, here’s the starting (fill in the blank) that’d be a little more understandable. Freaking out over every depth move is a little over the top.

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That is basically exactly what I say on MLB Trade Rumors occasionally when people jump on threads like Valdez / non-roster(Fulmer) trades or signings and make it some Nutting / small market indictment. Sign Tellez with a press conference and try to convince us you just signed prime Goldschmidt - flood the internet, but make it match the level of transaction.

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Today is 12/17/2024. You might be getting ahead of yourself.

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I was about to type the same thing. 60 days is a long time when the off season (and a lot can happen even after players arrive at spring training) itself is about 110 days. I get the roster balance currently isn't great and confidence in Ben is low, but most teams still have many things they need to do.

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Agree. Even on the free agency side decent players are lingering into spring training. Don’t need to hit the panic button when we have no idea what the roster construction is going to look like.

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I’ll withhold judgment until I see everything they do. They have some ingredients for a competitive roster: the pitching staff, Cruz and Reynolds, some intriguing catchers and I liked Horwitz. The bullpen is still an issue, as is the offense. But they can potentially knock out two birds with one stone with some of this stuff. Trading say Bae, for a reliever, alleviates middle infield overcrowding and helps the pen. Trading a starter for a bat and a reliever is the same kind of idea.

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Well... in 60 days, pitchers and catchers report to camp. There will be plenty of catchers. As for pitchers... I hope you're right.

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I’m sure they can build a bullpen on a budget and do so late decently late.

I’m more worried about the offense, but I’m not overly concerned. If they are going the trade route that can take time. Maybe other dominoes need to fall. If they are looking to trade Keller or Jones, those guys might be plan B/C/D for other teams after free agents or other trade targets.

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Good post.

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Like most, I'm feeling good about our ability to identify and develop pitching. However, part of me worries that we're a little too confident in that ability. I'll feel better if Chandler can make a successful jump to the majors and if Jones returns to his early-season form rather than the struggles that he had post-injury (.868 OPS allowed, for example).

Ortiz looked like a success story, but his peripherals didn't quite support his base stats. Did we trade him because we think '24 was his high point? (Though who doesn't think the Guardians will get more out of him, given their track record?)

Falter has been seen as a success, but his xERA and his xFIP were actually higher last year than they were in '22 with the Phillies.

Priester obviously didn't work out (I know he was drafted by Huntington, but he was developed under this FO).

And of course Skenes is awesome, but if there was ever a pitcher that came as plug-and-play, it's Skenes.

What happens this year with Jones, Chandler, and likely Harrington will go a long way to answering whether we've gotten a bit ahead of ourselves or not. Fingers crossed.

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I'm with you guys on them trading an arm. Jones would yield the best return, but I don't think they'll trade him. I'm guessing Keller is going to be traded for a bat. The price of starting pitching is sky high - 5/77 is a steal for Mitch. I do think he needs to go to a team that has a good framing catcher...Hedges was the perfect fit for Keller.

Mitch will get something better than Horwitz.

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I was listening to a DC sports podcast this morning and the host was discussing the Orioles Sagano signing and their overall rotation, which is really not up to par. Sagano is a 35-year-old finesse pitcher who’s had injury problems as recently as 2023. This can’t be the O’s only pitching move if they’re serious about competing.

As we’ve been saying for months, a trade of Keller or Jones to the O’s for position player(s) just makes so much sense for both sides.

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Dec 17
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Joey Ortiz was nearly as valuable as Corbin Burnes last year and the Brewers get the former for five more while the O's watch Burnes leave for greener pastures.

If I were Cherington I'd be more than happy with the O's "feeling" like they won that one.

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If that's the case, then the nerd should look for other teams to trade with.

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He actually did suggest Seiya as an option. I’d be good with a one for one of him for Bednar.

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Dec 17
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Probably. He seems a little grumpy about being a DH though.

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Thanks. For sure that is a bad combination.

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Maybe it’s time to just lean in to our ability to develop pitching and restart those Edward Cabrera rumors. Given our middle infield depth, maybe something centered around Nick Gonzales would work. If I remember correctly, the Marlins did have an affinity for him in prior trade discussions.

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Bullpen, brother!

Same idea, but less focus on starters and more on relievers.

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Shoulda been in on Crochet…

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not too late to sign Cantina

Falter and option for the bulpen?

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As nice as he would be to have in the rotation, I don’t think they need to shoot that high. They could probably get a two-thirds Crochet for a hell of a lot less, then overpay for the bats they can’t seem to develop.

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An equivalent value combo via FG prospect list would be Termarr/Griffin/Mueth/Severino. That takes a pretty big bite out of the farm system, and simultaneously highlights how they’ve struggled with developing bats, as Yorke would likely be their best remaining hitting prospect.

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Looked him up. Is Super 2 this year then 3 more years of arbitration. Sporttrac gave a career comp to Jack Flaherty and suggested 5 yrs and $74M as a fair contract value. I don’t think Nick G’s value would come close to that. Maybe something like Nick and Harrington would be enough.

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This is for Cabrera? Who had never topped 100 innings, and has a career walk level over 5?! Hot damn, pitching is pricey.

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Yeah, there definitely would need to be another piece with Nick being the main. IMO, Harrington’s value (on BTV) is oddly low for a 101-120 prospect. They’d probably want an arm going the other way, maybe Ashcraft if you go upper level or Meuth if you can sell projection. I’d try to hang on the Harrington.

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Wouldn't be the worst idea, though I feel it would be more of an interesting idea to bring in Cabrera with the idea there is teeth to the JJ/Keller rumors and their intention is to significantly boost another area of need trading one of them. While bringing in Cabrera to somewhat offset that move by moving an infielder. I do think there's some juice to Nicky G, so if I'm trading him, it'd have to be with the intent of possibly adding an impact OF through other outlets.

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Jones for Kjerstad and then bring in cabrera would be quite the big swing... im in

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Jared Jones had 22 Starts, 4.14 ERA, 1.8 fWAR in his age 23 Rookie season last year. Trading straight up for Heston Kjerstad who had about 100 AB, 0.3 fWAR in MLB last year as a 25 year old?

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Eh I didnt mean that as the entire deal but moreso the big movers. Im a Kjerstad believer so I think he would be a great get for us

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I like him also, but Jones straight up is way too much, because He, Chandler, Harrington, and Barco are going to be the Rotation in a few years. Not sure we have enough to sign Paul Skenes. The Pirates are waiting to see what happens with Ashcraft and Burrows in ST - both or either are going to be well worth a lot if they pitch up to their projections. Also, with the trade to get Kyle Tucker, I'd be willing to wait to see what the Cubs are going to do with Pete Crow-Armstrong, but either for the right price would be good for me.

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Best be Kjerstad plus lol

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Yeah... I think that they have undersold enough of their pitching depth already. Maybe getting a good return, rather than overbidding for Horwitz, would be better than overpaying again.

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Just my opinion, but they really haven't traded any arms of substance.

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I liked Ortiz and the others, but there was no place for Ortiz to go, and Hartle and Kennedy are 4 years away IMO, and we need to take advantage of this window now. But, we definitely need to get another BAT

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I am pretty high on Horwitz and not so high on Ortiz. Hartle is probably the guy I am most interested in that they traded, so I am in the minority when I think, looking back 4 years from now, many people will think that the Pirates "won" this trade. However, they certainly did not win it in terms of present actual and perceived value. They need to be better at setting their price and being flexible in how they solve problems (like all the good small-market teams): not just in targeting the right players (which they did in this case IMO) and then paying the asking price.

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I had hoped that the season NG had in 2024 would have put him in a better position to be a part of a trade. Why? He's 26, and I see him simply as a placeholder for the Pirates at second base. We traded for Nick Yorke who as a 22 year old fielded 989 for Boston at 2B in AAA, and hit for an .898 OPS with 24 BB/32 SO - he hits with some power and puts the ball in play! He will be in his age 23 season in 2025, and we need to get his bat into the lineup.

Our second baseman for the the future is Termarr Johnson who will be at AAA sometime in 2025. No use waiting until NG's trade value is non-existent. We have more than enough MI's to offset the loss and getting Yorke's bat into the lineup is a must-do.

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