I like it--there's upside there and it would produce some good karma. Maybe coming back to the organization that drafted him will help him and it's not like we have a full OF in Indy (I think most likely he'd need to start there and work his way back after missing so much time the last two seasons).
He’s been a guy I’ve been watching. Think you could just give him a invite to camp and see what he has. He could turn out to be a 780+OPS guy. I think he’s worth a flier and I wouldn’t be against an MLB contract either.
Been sucked into football mode the last few weeks and just catching up on Bucco baseball. Did Tim finally call it quits on P2? Late to the party but pleased by the Chapman signing.
I had heard a rumor he committed suicide so just looked on X and was happy to see he is still alive, but apparently in need of some help. I hope he gets it.
Likely scenario: he’s a slightly better than replacement 4th OF type guy. But I also wouldn’t rule out we pulled one over on the Royals. That organization has been a dumpster fire of incompetence (worse than the Pirates) for 7-8 years now. Part of the Pirates finding value in trading should be trading with teams like the Rockies, White Sox and Royals who are more old school and value players differently.
The Royals are a whole other level when you look at their decision making. Like Littlefield bad. They are showing some signs of life under Piccolo, but I’m skeptical because he was Moore’s right hand man.
Olivares is passable as an MLB player in most respects, so he is a step up from AAAA. The problem is that his bat, which is OK, is not quite good enough to overcome his defensive liabilities as an every day starter, IMO. As a bench piece, he also doesn't quite fit on a roster because his defense limits him to corner OF positions and DH, which makes him a poor backup.
He makes sense as a starter If you are trying to fill 6 roster spots and 5 starting positions with a $25 million bankroll, So, I suppose it was, following some sort of logic, a reasonable move to acquire him. I suspect that you will not be entirely disappointed with him, but you won't be overwhelmed or find him "sneaky good" either.
You'll see. He's OK, but don't get your hopes up. Melkel probably understands and could explain much better than I what is wrong with his swing. It's not that he has a slow bat, but he just can't catch up to good heat most of the time. He has king of a long swing and it seems like it takes him too long to get his swing going. He will do damage against hanging breaking or off-speed stuff, but he makes a lot of soft contact... fouling off, oppo popups, weak grounders against good velocity fastballs.
He runs well enough but he takes visibly bad routes on flyballs... like so bad you can see it on TV. He has a strong arm, but he not very accurate. He will miss cutoff men and stuff more than you like and has a hard time getting a throw on target for OF assists. There are several reasons why he has spent more time in AAA than the majors that past 3 seasons.
Check again on that move in 2022. They sent him on a rehab assignment to the Stormchasers not long after moving him onto the 60-day. It was a paper move just to free up a 40-man roster spot and put him back in AAA (since they had used all of his options for the season). They were not saving money moving him up and down. They cycled through several OF prospects in 2021 and 2022 with a number of guys bouncing around from Omaha to KC. 2022 was especially bad because they moved Melendez to RF that season, basically taking Oliveras' spot for most of the season, and since he can't really back up any other position, there wasn't much to do with him except option him. The Royals replaced Matheny with Quatraro in 2023. Quatraro was the bench coach for the Rays. He has a sterling reputation and is not in the same league as Shelton.
Oh I get what you're saying but why don't the Royals do the same thing. or have him as a bench bat. or have him in AAA (he has an option). They gave him away and they have a worse 25 man than us.
It's the Chuck Noll principle. When he took over the hapless Steelers, he was asked about deciding which players to cut. He said the hard part was deciding when to stop.
My guess is the Royals just decided Olivares wasn't a good fit on a well constructed roster, given the awful defense, the ability to play only a corner, and the very modest offensive ceiling. Or that he was just extremely fungible and they could easily replace him. The Pirates have always been terrified of the notion of churning the roster. The Rays win because they're never afraid to do it. The Royals probably decided to be like the Rays and not worry about their ability to replace a replacement level player like Olivares.
The problem that I have mostly with the Olivares acquisition is that the Pirates do not have much in the way of CF prospects anywhere in their entire system and certainly no one ready to step in and start this year or next. Can we not trade prospect(s) for a real CFer, even a young prospect in CF? Why must we continue with bandaids year after year? And who are we waiting for to step up and take the starting job in CF, moving Suwinki to RF (or Reynolds and Suwinski to LF)? It is not as if this is a bridge year to some dynamo young kid lighting up AA and robbing HRs at Altoona. Quit hoarding every prospect and start using the prospect capital to build a team that covers all 26 roster spots well. Olivares is not the problem. The hoarding of pitching prospects with glaring holes all over the place and no one in the system to fill these holes in the problem.
Kiermaier would have been a great signing especially at the same price that we signed Chapman for (which is what the Jays signed him for, though surely we would have needed to offer more). The overall passiveness this offseason is annoying after all the talk by Shelton and Cherington at the end of the season.
I think you mean that Olivares could steal ABs from lefties, not righties. That would allow Palacios to be remain in his bench role instead of being a platoon partner in RF.
As much as I’d like them to go get a true CF, I think the outfield is pretty much set: Reynolds-Suwinski-Olivares with the occasional appearance by Bae & Joe.
I guess I had too many tabs open this morning, because I edited it before it posted but it just had a blank space where I updated it. Guess I closed the wrong tab. Thanks for the info!
What is everyone’s thoughts of bringing Austin Meadows back for RF? Maybe even just a NRI to battle with Olivares, palacios and McKinney for RF.
Last I read he's not sure he's going to continue his career.
I saw that too, but I thought that was more speculation. Either way hope the best for him.
I like it--there's upside there and it would produce some good karma. Maybe coming back to the organization that drafted him will help him and it's not like we have a full OF in Indy (I think most likely he'd need to start there and work his way back after missing so much time the last two seasons).
He’s been a guy I’ve been watching. Think you could just give him a invite to camp and see what he has. He could turn out to be a 780+OPS guy. I think he’s worth a flier and I wouldn’t be against an MLB contract either.
As long as his head's right this seems like a no brainer for someone. Not many 28 yo dudes with that kind of talent floating around.
Holderman, joe, and a flyer for edward cabrera or trevor rogers?
Ro for a lottery ticket or two to try to replenish the farm?
Sign michael a taylor
Been sucked into football mode the last few weeks and just catching up on Bucco baseball. Did Tim finally call it quits on P2? Late to the party but pleased by the Chapman signing.
He's living in his car and tweeting weird tweets these days. Sounds like he's mentally unwell.
I had heard a rumor he committed suicide so just looked on X and was happy to see he is still alive, but apparently in need of some help. I hope he gets it.
Unless the royals are morons why do we think Olivares is that good if they basically just gave him away?
Likely scenario: he’s a slightly better than replacement 4th OF type guy. But I also wouldn’t rule out we pulled one over on the Royals. That organization has been a dumpster fire of incompetence (worse than the Pirates) for 7-8 years now. Part of the Pirates finding value in trading should be trading with teams like the Rockies, White Sox and Royals who are more old school and value players differently.
Don't sell 'em short, they have a very strong case for being morons!
So what happens when morons trade with morons?
The Royals are a whole other level when you look at their decision making. Like Littlefield bad. They are showing some signs of life under Piccolo, but I’m skeptical because he was Moore’s right hand man.
Whoever the blind squirrel is wins?
Olivares is passable as an MLB player in most respects, so he is a step up from AAAA. The problem is that his bat, which is OK, is not quite good enough to overcome his defensive liabilities as an every day starter, IMO. As a bench piece, he also doesn't quite fit on a roster because his defense limits him to corner OF positions and DH, which makes him a poor backup.
He makes sense as a starter If you are trying to fill 6 roster spots and 5 starting positions with a $25 million bankroll, So, I suppose it was, following some sort of logic, a reasonable move to acquire him. I suspect that you will not be entirely disappointed with him, but you won't be overwhelmed or find him "sneaky good" either.
How can anyone judge Olivares's ceiling when you see this
2020- 96 AB, 375 SLG, 642 OPS
2021-101 AB, 406 SLG, 697 OPS
2022 - 161 AB, 410 SLG, 743 OPS
2023 - 354 AB, 452 SLG, 769 OPS--.289 BABIP
Splits are close to even L/R
.700 OPS RISP
In a line up that lost 106 G
His bat will play just fine and will make for is defense
Henry, Joe, Gamel, he will be fine
You'll see. He's OK, but don't get your hopes up. Melkel probably understands and could explain much better than I what is wrong with his swing. It's not that he has a slow bat, but he just can't catch up to good heat most of the time. He has king of a long swing and it seems like it takes him too long to get his swing going. He will do damage against hanging breaking or off-speed stuff, but he makes a lot of soft contact... fouling off, oppo popups, weak grounders against good velocity fastballs.
He runs well enough but he takes visibly bad routes on flyballs... like so bad you can see it on TV. He has a strong arm, but he not very accurate. He will miss cutoff men and stuff more than you like and has a hard time getting a throw on target for OF assists. There are several reasons why he has spent more time in AAA than the majors that past 3 seasons.
I mean no disrespect
But you should EDIT the last sentence before more peeps read and get the wrong idea. I would SACK the SOURCE as well
The several WARTS on defense and the LONG swing are very real but in no shape or form the reason you thought he spent more time AAA
Go to transactions at bottom of his MLB profile, YOU'LL see he's NOT OK
2021-option/recalls > 10 times = MONEY saved, if you do that enough
WACHA and LUGO can join the rotation
2022- two 10 day trips to the IL with the second ending his season as he was transferred to the 60, in other words LOST SEASON
2021-2023 100 G AAA
2021-2023 199 G BIGS
2023 ALONE 107 G BIGS
Eddie O and Jared Triolo were my two SEPT calls, both helped me grab a money spot in the first ever season of the Alumni DELT baseball league (ADBL)
Your second paragraph is spot on, I know I watched a good portion of his season. He is somewhere in between Davis and Cruz
Cruz was in LF only for few games but i got to see the circus then the insubordination that ensued, he's telling them what he wants to do
OR CANT DO.
HANK can play full time in RF in this league with enough work
Hank can't catch full time, 75? Its not whether he can do it, its can he stay healthy long enough to do it, you know what i'm talking about
He was supposed to get more chances behind the dish in Sept,
but injured again
Lastly, offensively i saw the same issues except, no mention of bat speed once the long awkward swing got going. This is a powerful man that only
has a 16% k-rate
I agree on top of that 16 there is few % of weak contact you mentioned
but its better than walking back to the dugout
Also if you look at game logs, you will see their manager is another
Sheltless, the method of reward for someone
w/ 3 consecutive multi hit games?
BIG 'ol seat on the bench, with a pinch hit K coming later
I'm ready to trade a 65-97 for sheltless to be jettisoned from the ship
PEACE
Check again on that move in 2022. They sent him on a rehab assignment to the Stormchasers not long after moving him onto the 60-day. It was a paper move just to free up a 40-man roster spot and put him back in AAA (since they had used all of his options for the season). They were not saving money moving him up and down. They cycled through several OF prospects in 2021 and 2022 with a number of guys bouncing around from Omaha to KC. 2022 was especially bad because they moved Melendez to RF that season, basically taking Oliveras' spot for most of the season, and since he can't really back up any other position, there wasn't much to do with him except option him. The Royals replaced Matheny with Quatraro in 2023. Quatraro was the bench coach for the Rays. He has a sterling reputation and is not in the same league as Shelton.
Here’s a better example
What they did to Roasny in July of 2022 was disgraceful
Kid made the team out of necessity as a swing without a guaranteed contract
Towards the end of June they talked about resting his arm for a couple weeks like they failed to do with not shutting down Oviedo
So instead of skipping a couple appearances leading into the break or placing him on the IL for the rest, they optioned him on
July 7
Well the rest lasted longer a trip to the 10 day, longer then any star break
Aug 17
41 days Roansy didn’t make $4000 a day plus Per diem
$164,000 cost the kid to get his arm a little rest
Each option year comes with unlimited back and forth moves
Also, if EO wasn’t signed to a guaranteed major league contract in 2021
KC saved a lot of money every day he wasn’t on the active roster
Oh I get what you're saying but why don't the Royals do the same thing. or have him as a bench bat. or have him in AAA (he has an option). They gave him away and they have a worse 25 man than us.
Because the option was the only thing that gave him any value as a trade piece, so they got what they could for him while they could get something.
It's the Chuck Noll principle. When he took over the hapless Steelers, he was asked about deciding which players to cut. He said the hard part was deciding when to stop.
My guess is the Royals just decided Olivares wasn't a good fit on a well constructed roster, given the awful defense, the ability to play only a corner, and the very modest offensive ceiling. Or that he was just extremely fungible and they could easily replace him. The Pirates have always been terrified of the notion of churning the roster. The Rays win because they're never afraid to do it. The Royals probably decided to be like the Rays and not worry about their ability to replace a replacement level player like Olivares.
Could not be stated better.
The problem that I have mostly with the Olivares acquisition is that the Pirates do not have much in the way of CF prospects anywhere in their entire system and certainly no one ready to step in and start this year or next. Can we not trade prospect(s) for a real CFer, even a young prospect in CF? Why must we continue with bandaids year after year? And who are we waiting for to step up and take the starting job in CF, moving Suwinki to RF (or Reynolds and Suwinski to LF)? It is not as if this is a bridge year to some dynamo young kid lighting up AA and robbing HRs at Altoona. Quit hoarding every prospect and start using the prospect capital to build a team that covers all 26 roster spots well. Olivares is not the problem. The hoarding of pitching prospects with glaring holes all over the place and no one in the system to fill these holes in the problem.
Or just sign Kiermaier. Even as band aids go they could do better.
Kiermaier would have been a great signing especially at the same price that we signed Chapman for (which is what the Jays signed him for, though surely we would have needed to offer more). The overall passiveness this offseason is annoying after all the talk by Shelton and Cherington at the end of the season.
Barrosa lol
You know that I am all aboard with this idea.
Yep!
I think you mean that Olivares could steal ABs from lefties, not righties. That would allow Palacios to be remain in his bench role instead of being a platoon partner in RF.
AdminSky early in the clubhouse with mailbag of the year.
Will strive for higher!
As much as I’d like them to go get a true CF, I think the outfield is pretty much set: Reynolds-Suwinski-Olivares with the occasional appearance by Bae & Joe.
I addressed this on Xwitter today too, but Burrows is allowed to be optioned, despite injured players not typically being allowed.
I see no reason as to why that wouldn't be the move that happens. Not sure they'd need an extra spot that bad, with 3 opening.
I guess I had too many tabs open this morning, because I edited it before it posted but it just had a blank space where I updated it. Guess I closed the wrong tab. Thanks for the info!
Greensboro Ocelotes would be up there if they brought it back. Missed my chance to grab a hat
Ocelot, ocelot, where are you now?
Won't you come out to play?
what is the earliest date those four guys can be added to the 60 day DL?
When pitchers and catchers report.
ah feb 15 - - then that probably explains why they havent announced all the free agent signings yet
Contreras wont officially be a pirate until then i imagine
Pretty sure Contreras is a Pirate now.
who dropped from the roster?
JaCoby Jones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole